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Dr. Halpert demonstrated it nicely. You’re ignoring math, but using a set of anecdotal “facts” (which are not commonly observed) to “prove” that the math must be wrong.
There’s nothing more fundamentally flawed with the system as is, than the fact that there are just not enough boys to marry all the girls.
Let the ones who ate parve taste them to determine which is which.
Ubiquitin, you can’t keep on denying that age gap + large families = disparity. It’s simply unavoidable. I am not at all uncertain that 1) is false; I just don’t know which of the three parts to the equation changed.
Why deal with a questionable, less severe problem first, if it still won’t solve the bigger problem? Why not deal with the larger, certain issue, which will help solve the dating divide?
If you want both to be dealt with, go ahead and take care of the dating disparity. Get haskomos from dozens of roshei yeshivos, and convince philanthropists to help you. AFAIK, that’s what NASI did (AZ can correct me if I’m wrong), and I’m certainly not stopping you from doing the same. But there’s no logical reason not to address the very real numbers issue.
There are always three sides; his, hers, and the truth. 🙂
I am not supporting putting on any type of make-up on Shabbos. I think that’s abundantly clear. However, the truth is that R’ Moshe (as a da’as yochid) was mattir dry white or colored powder. I am skeptical that any such product is (or ever was) on the market, despite claims of the manufacturers, and even despite the “hechsherim” on them.
…and a glimpse of a tzaddik’s face.
Jews of Silence – Tzlil V’zemer 3
That should read:
the disparate numbers should still, if possible, be dealt with. Even if all girls would get the same number of dates, if there are more girls than boys, some girls won’t get married. Yet, you would ignore that.
Nitpicker, I suppose you didn’t see the teshuvah in which he is mattir colored powder.
It is common knowledge that waiters get at least 15%. I don’t think it’s common knowledge that movers get 10% (I’ve not heard that).
The owner should have told you in advance.
Nitpicker,
Why is it a contradiction to say that certain p’sak is a da’as yochid, and an individual’s interpretation of that p’sak is also a da’as yochid?
1) As has been amply demonstrated, that’s a false argument.
2) Also false, as has been explained numerous times. Besides, even if we give prime importance to the dating divide, and falsely assume that evening the numbers wouldn’t help, the actual numbers should still, if possible, be dealt with. Even if all girls would get the same number of dates, some, if there are more girls than boys, won’t get married, yet you would ignore that.
I meant two sets, but regardless, there wouldn’t be any contradiction.
Also, how do you plan on “insisting”?
How would that help? There will still be a lot of girls saying yes and a lot of boys who are busy.
Mi ma from Abraham Fried.
Anyone know anything about the Shabbos makeup sold on 13th and 42nd?
Don’t use it.
Different sets of poskim.
Rav Moshe was mattir (even) colored dry powder. This is evident in Igros Moshe. Gedolei Haposkim in E.Y. all said even dry powder is assur.
Rav Blumenkrantz gave a hechsher on some sort of powder. It’s very possible (although I don’t recall the details) that rabbonim in the US who would have otherwise gone along with a heter from R’ Moshe said it was assur because they felt that the finished product stuck to the face and was not what R’ Moshe was referring to.
Good morning.
Nitpicker, both might be true. There’s definitely a teshuvah from R’ Moshe that’s mattir something. R’ Shlomo Zalman and others argued on that teshuvah.
I heard that R’ Blumenkrantz sat with R’ Moshe and tested make-up. It’s very possible that everyone argued with R’ Blumenkrantz about how he understood R’ Moshe’s position. As I said, I can’t figure out how a product fitting the description in the teshuvah would be marketable.
I’m adding that even if one would accept R’ Blumenkrantz’ understanding, he is no longer alive and there is no product currently sold with his or the family’s approval. Also, the very source (reliable to me) that told me that R’ Blumenkrantz sat with R’ Moshe testing formulas also told me that R’ Blumenkrantz was only mattir because people were putting on regular make-up anyway, and that he did not want the families of b’nei Torah using it.
It’s like my moshol with the cars. If I argued that it was made in Japan, and you thought it was made in China, as long as both are possible, the existence of the car proves neither.
There is a Creator who is definitely capable of direct creation. He can also use evolution if He wants.
The existence of humans is no indication which happened, just that something happened. (I think it says in the Torah that it was direct, so I’ll go with that approach).
Allowing a permissible form of makeup is not equivalent to eating what someone else might consider as non-kosher.
I would rephrase the first part: “Allowing a highly questionable form of make-up…”, in which case you might end the sentence differently.
I’m curious; how long does the stuff last on the skin? R’ Moshe’s heter (which other major poskim disagreed with) was based on the fact that it doesn’t stick to the skin, so I don’t understand why anyone would even bother using it.
SF, I could use the exact same argument to prove a Creator.
Jewishness, most wealth accumulated through stealing is not the same thing as most wealthy people becoming so through stealing.
Jewishness, most wealth accumulated through stealing is not the same thing as most wealthy people becoming so through stealing.
I think I’ll try Bostonians next time. Thanks for the tip.
However this was about using Tzedkah Money for $180 pair of shoes
Actually, it was originally about any Shabbos shoes, and I made a side point that $100 is not always excessive, and I mentioned $180 shoes as an extreme example. If we can agree that $60 for a pair of solid kids’ shoes, partially subsidized by tzeddakah money, and partially by store discount, so that a child doesn’t have to feel like a nebach, then we’ve gotten somewhere
I’ve bought Bostonians (which are the same as Florshiems)
Is that your opinion, or are they literally the same shoes?
Someone who is “using Chessed Vouchers” should not be shopping at the expensive stores
The vouchers, I think, are given for specific stores.
Do I get a do-over?
But also keep in mind that the MINIMUM Halacha IS the Halacha.
That’s not untrue, but it’s oversimplified. There are cases, for example, where something is muttar b’sh’as had’chak. Off the top of my head, I’ll use an example of davening before sunrise. For someone who needs to travel, it’s allowed. Why? Because it’s at or above the minimum. However, it’s forbidden to do so to play golf. Why? If it’s the halachah, it’s the rotzon Hashem! The answer, of course, is that it’s only permitted to follow the minimum in a sha’as had’chak. I feel the same way, based on my research (this is all NOT merely off the top of my head) about Shabbos make-up.
And, I don’t know that any make-up was ever manufactured according to R’ Moshe’s psak; I’m even more doubtful today.
I don’t buy them, but people whose feet ache do buy them and it’s not wasteful.
take away the upperhand we unfairly give boys.
On this we agree. The way to do this ia to even the numbers. How would you suggest it?
Eccos (well made, not fancy AFAIK) run $180, I think, at Hat Box. Florsheim and Rockport are around $100 IIRC.
SF, if you believe in a Creator, you don’t know that humans evolved from bacteria. It’s a circular argument. I think popa meant that when we observe, not speculate, that humans (or, I guess, any mammal) evolved from bacteria, then we can talk.
It’s matzil, similar to a tzamid passil.
Ohel zaruk.
They have evolved into people. You are evidence of it. As am I.
How can our existence prove evolution vs. creation (or even that evolution is possible)? There seems to be no logic in that statement. It’s like saying that the existence of my car proves that it was made in Japan. It may very well have been, but it may have been made in the US. The existence of the car doesn’t even prove that there’s a factory in Japan.
Edit: I see it’s been retracted. I’ll keep the post up, though, because I know how much popa loves a good moshol.
Or is your opinion more valid than the Heilige Rishon Rabeinu Avraham Ibn Ezra’s?
Let’s first establish that this is indeed the opinion of the Heilige Rishon Rabeinu Avraham Ibn Ezra. Then we’ll talk.
Speak to a lawyer, and if there’s an easement, tell your neighbor. If he doesn’t listen, you can go to a dayan. If he’s allowed to build, you can take a tip from popa.
*ant make-up should read any make-up.
Oomis is being quite reasonable (I’m not sure that $100 is so much for a pair of decent Shabbos shoes, though).
DH, it’s been established that he’s a kohen.
Ubiq, Mammele said it well.
The silly criteria could explain why so many older singles, but not why so many more girls.
How would you address fixing the silly criteria problem? Learning musser? That’s already encouraged.
As Mammele said, and AZ and I have been repeating often, making the numbers more even will go a long way towards removing silly criteria from the list of requirements.
But also keep in mind that the MINIMUM Halacha IS the Halacha.
That’s not untrue, but it’s oversimplified. There are cases, for example, where something is muttar b’sh’as had’chak. Off the top of my head, I’ll use an example of of ravening before sunrise. For someone who needs to travel, it’s allowed. Why? Because it’s at or above the minimum. However, it’s forbidden to do so to play golf. Why? If it’s the halachah, it’s the Gordon Hashem! The answer, of course, is that it’s only permitted to follow the minimum in a sha’as had’chak. I feel the same way, based on my research (this is all NOT merely off the top of my head) about Shabbos make-up.
And, I don’t know that ant make-up was ever manufactured according to R’ Moshe’s psak, and I’m even more doubtful today.
Torah613, I know you’re not allowed to put makeup on on Shabbos, but I don’t know why. Something to do with smearing. 🙂
Also something to do with tzoveya (coloring) which applies even to types of make up of loose or powdery consistency.
If the makeup were really an issur from every standpoint, with no mitigating factors to mattir it, it would not be muttar.
That is correct. R’ Blumenkrantz obviously felt that there was a legitimate tzad heter, but it doesn’t mean that everyone should use it, and I heard directly from a family member that he only got involved in the production of this make up because there were people who would otherwise put on make up with no tzad heter.
Halachah is not always black and white, and any yarei shamayim should have standards somewhat above the absolute minimum, each one l’fi madreigaso.
I believe it is the other way around. Not rav Moshe was a daas yochid in this matter but rav blumenkrantz was the daas yochid in interpreting what rav moshe wrote.
How do you interpret R’ Moshe’s psak to not allow colored powder?
It is also strange to say that Rav Blumenkrantz did not mean for everyone,
where is the evidence of that?
I can’t prove it to you; all I can say is, speak to the family, as I have. I wasn’t told to keep this a secret.
Nations – Shema Koleinu Vol I. Yhe question as inspired by Listen Nations.
I don’t think I’ll get #2, although R Shmuel’s sounds a bit familiar.
I need to point out that Oomis’ comparison to tzedukim was likely unintentional, and any offense certainly was. She never tries to offend anyone.
It is clear that R’ Steinman is referring to the Gemara:
??? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???’ ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?’ ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????
????? ?
There is no reference to a particular observation, although it’s obviously an area in which everyone short of the Vilna Gaon needs chizuk in (and even he found a few wasted seconds).
Had it been a non-Jewish store, you would have gotten a full refund. 🙁
Because they’re not dealing with a customer base which would put them out of business with a generous return policy. 🙁
Oomis, your comparison of those who are machmir on Shabbos make up to the tzedukim is offensive.
As to the halacha, R’ Moshe zt”l was practically a daas yochid, most poskim forbade “Shabbos” make up in any form (a well known rov, for reasons I will explain, calls it “chillul Shabbos make up”). Regarding his heter and it’s applicability, he showed R’ Blumenkrantz zt”l how to check if the make up was sufficiently dry to be muttar; there is nobody alive today AFAIK who had shimush from R’ Moshe on how to test.
The heter is based upon there being no oils whatsoever to aid in the make up holding fast to the skin. It is obviously in the manufacturer’s best interest to have the make up stay on for some period of time, otherwise it’s an almost useless product.
Additionally, if there are any remnants of make up on the woman’s face from a prior application, it will be assur even if it were made according to R’ Moshe’s standards, even according to R’ Moshe; improving an existing color is also assur because of tzovaya, and the “Shabbos” make up will most definitely stick to the old make up in a manner which is certainly forbidden.
Furthermore, the heter as formulated by R’ Blumenkrantz with R’ Moshe’s psak, was only issued because there were people who were putting on regular make up on Shabbos. It was never intended for use by anyone who would otherwise refrain from putting on make up, and nobody in R’ Blumenkrantz’ family ever used it.