Forum Replies Created
“ And he wouldn’t have, but HE decided to take a cop’s taser & resist Arrest.”
I’m not sure what you are trying to do. Are you trying to argue with me? But you wrote basically the same thing that I did, “ that still does not mean the cop did anything wrong when he shot Brooks. he had a taser pointed at him and had the full right to defend himself.”
I guess you are simply agreeing with me, but then why the caps and exclamation points?
1) Rayshard Brooks did not deserve to die.
2) that still does not mean the cop did anything wrong when he shot Brooks. he had a taser pointed at him and had the full right to defend himself. shooting at a specific body part is very hard when you need to shoot in a split second, that’s why he simply pointed at center of mass and fired.
I believe that 99% of these people are in the category of tinok shenishba.
I say 99% and not 100% because I assume someone here will say they know someone that _______.
“ Ok, I’m sorry. You can continue to try to convince Health of your point.”
Ok, I’m sorry. You can continue to try to convince Health of your point. I personally am finished repeating the same points over and over.
Well, I’ve already said that there is no changing my mind on that topic, and seeing as you don’t view what I said in the other thread as making any sense, I would understand if you decided to ignore me in that thread.
When someone is simply repeating the same dumb idea over and over without even bothering to listen to logic, then it is time to end the debate. If he is willing to listen to your point of view, then we continue the conversation.
Sanders is a kook, and he simply believes that our laws are immoral. The only thing he is is a commie. That means that if you have twice as much money as me, you owe me 25% of your wealth in order to make us even. So in his mind the looters aren’t stealing, they’re just taking what’s rightfully theirs.
So if he’s the only supporter then the looters don’t really have any support.
Can we all ignore Health on the topic of Chauvin’s guilt?
He seems to believe that, even though Floyd would not have died if Chauvin hadn’t restrained him like that and now that Chauvin did restrain him Floyd did die, Chauvin didn’t cause his death.
You’re 100% right. I don’t think I will ever be able to believe that people would purposely put themselves in the living conditions that exist in the “hood”.
About the Unity Video, what exactly did it accomplish?
The little I know,
NO ONE SAID YOU HAVE TO TOLERATE PEOPLE BURNING YOUR BUSINESS,
I will fully support you if you stay in your store and shoot looters.
That being said, when you take young men and frisk them for walking in the street, then yeah, they’re not going to respect the police or what they represent- the law!
Do you really think that you growing up in black New York would have a good shot at living nicely with a high paying job?
Well, you’d have to deal with an insufficient school. You’d have to deal with no money to go to college, you’d have to let constantly being bothered by cops “making sure everything is okay” Not get you upset. Your brother who isn’t the school goody goody might get beaten up by cops for not social distancing during an epidemic and you’ll have to just not let it get you upset. You’d probably have to deal with growing up without a father in the house. You’d have to deal with growing up in a slum.
In short, however hard you think your life is, it would be 20 times harder. You tell me it doesn’t make sense to turn to a life of crime, hate the police, hate those who had it easy.
Did you ever read the hunger games? Did it make sense to you that the district people would one day blow up? It did to me….
I was not agreeing with the violence. I have said before that I think the looting is evil.
However, I was trying to explain where the black community is coming from. They have spent years in the same miserable hole, in a vicious cycle of crime, do you really think that if you had grown up in Harlem you would act that much different?
There is no hope of an education, the public schools are disasters. College is out of reach for most of them. They have spent years being constantly abused by the police. If you as a teen had been constantly thrown against the wall and frisked every time you walked in the street, would you not be angry at the organization responsible?
I know someone who bought a car of a model popular with African-Americans, for the next 2 years my she was constantly pulled over by cops “just making sure everything was alright” until she finally got rid of it. If you were brought up like that, would you not be angry? Would you maybe not respect the law?
Well that anger has unfortunately reached a boiling point, and this is the result.
Old crown heights,
First of all that’s a whole lot of conjecture. Second of all I he also tested positive In early April, so he wouldn’t think he still had it in late may.
The ambulance reported him going into cardiac arrest during the drive to the hospital. The officers did provide him with any medical help at all. The simply called an ambulance for a non emergency for bleeding in the mouth (which interestingly enough was never shown that he was actually bleeding) then upgraded it to an emergency. After that Floyd began saying that he’ll get into the car and that he can’t breathe. (His “conversation” with the officers is posted on page 2 of this topic)
All I’m trying to say is, that at that point the cops had no idea he ever committed a crime. All they knew was that he was drunk.
I’m not sure what you mean and after hearing wat to much weird things from you I will not be responding to ur posts anymore.
1st degree murder = premeditated murder.
2nd degree murder = intended to kill, but not premeditated.
3rd degree murder = not intending to kill.
The degrees of Manslaughter is Much more complicated.
Maybe I’ll post them tomorrow.
For all you no intent whatsoever people, an officer called in a code 2, non emergency medical assistance, for a bleeding mouth. (Mouth wasn’t bleeding btw), a minute later an officer called in a code 3 (emergency medical assistance needed). After this Chauvin has his knee on Floyd’s neck And asks, “what’s the matter, man?”, Floyd says “I can’t breathe”. Chauvin responds “so get in the car”. Floyd says “I will”. Chauvin screams again “get in the car”. Floyd says again “I can’t move”. Chauvin says yet again “get in the car” At this point Floyd begins crying, “mama” Chauvin says again “get in the car” Floyd cries “mama”. Chauvin says “get in the car” Floyd said “I can’t” Chauvin “get in the car” Floyd gags and is silent.
Are you telling me that Chauvin didn’t realize that his knee is stopping Floyd from “getting in the car”? Or more likely, he was playing with Floyd.
The video showing clearly what happened from start to finish is called “How George Floyd Was Killed in Police Custody | Visual Investigations” on YouTube In the New York Times channel. (Yes, I know they are liberals and probably photoshopped the whole thing 😉 )
This is obviously conjecture, but I believe that if Health works in healthcare it’s in alternative medicine.
The way some cities are using the national Guard is a little pointless. Some of them aren’t carrying anything besides guns, so they can’t help much besides by shooting people which to normal people doesn’t make any sense. So besides to try to scare people they’re basically pointless. We don’t want another Kent state shooting.
(I’m obviously not talking about the guardsmen with riot gear)
“ most sane people do NOT believe it was murder at all.”
You don’t have to answer, but where on earth do you live?
“ The evidence indicates that the knee on the neck did not contribute to Floyd’s death”
You haven’t yet explained where you got this from. The autopsy that came out after the police stopped lying said it was asphyxiation. Was the independent medical examiner lying? I’ve asked you this before and you didn’t answer.
If Floyd was white and wearing a yarmulke and tzitzis, you’d be screaming about that vicious murderer anti-Semitic cop that wasn’t arrested until riots broke out. (Which they wouldn’t have, so the cop takeh would’ve gone free.)
Not that it makes a difference, but I don’t think anyone know if Floyd knew the twenty was fake.
And health, back to the topic of the OP. Question was why don’t some people feel sympathy for Floyd. You answered:
“ He was a criminal. How come you have No sympathy for the Cop.“
Does everyone who committed a crime deserve to die 12 years later after they already served the time?
Let’s say the “not-a murderer-because-Floyd-was-a-criminal” wasn’t a police officer, does your statement still stand?
You do realize why they were arresting him, right? Because he paid with a counterfeit 20, we don’t even know that he knew it was a fake.
And for the ten minutes after that? And when his pulse was being checked? And when he said I’ll get in the car?
“ Imagine if the Blacks decided to shut down every interstate in the US at the same time every day for a week.”
Well judging by what I’ve been seeing around the country this week, there would probably be teargas shot at at about quarter of them, and then there goes your peaceful protest.
It will be back to normal once de blasio allows the NYPD to fully arrest all the looters.
The way I think about it, There is nothing morally wrong with civil disobedience. But it also doesn’t usually get you what you want. I’m not justifying the looting of private property, it was definitely an evil thing to do, but do you really think the other 3 officers would’ve been charged without cop cars getting burned out?
The little I know,
The other 3 officers just got charged with aiding and abetting murder, and Chauvin’s charges were raised to 2nd degree. Now, do you really think that would have happened if not for tens of police getting burned?
I think the medical term Health is looking for is “coincidental cardiac arrest While airway is blocked”.
You probably don’t know this, and I hope this clears up your confusion. The official police story was originally that they were arresting Floyd calmly when he had a medical incident and died. Sounds innocent, right? But then a video came out showing officer Chauvin with his knee on Floyd’s neck. Oops. They quickly changed the story. Apparently the first medical examiner had not received the memo (my own translation of events) and announced that Mr. Floyd died of “a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officers, who had subjected Floyd to subdual and “neck compression” – meaning his heart happened to have stopped at the same time that he couldn’t breathe. (Idk what cardiopulmonary arrest means, but I’m guessing.)
Then a second examiner, who apparently did get the memo that the cops story already got busted said that Floyd died of asphyxiation.
So, why would we believe the police’s medical examiner over a private one when the police were already caught lying about this?
Why don’t yidden realize that for every time a cop is mean to them a black is physically attacked by a cop?
By coronavirus we kept complaining that there were fines being given to Jewish stores. While I don’t what was happening with non Jewish stores, I did see videos of cops beating up blacks for not dispersing when told.
But no, definitely not a problem, no big deal, right? Ooh, I cop gave someone in boropark a 50$ ticket! He’s a vicious anti-Semite!
Yidden wake up! Blacks are at the receiving end of a lot of police violence, like it or not, it’s true.
And yes, their economic systems are terrible, they need better schooling, it’s all true, face the facts!
These Protest aren’t specifically about George Floyd, he’s just the last straw. The protests are about a general pattern of police being violent when they see black, of a constant lack of money. There’s a reason the riots are so bad now, more than in the past 10 years, because the low income neighborhoods our even worse off after coronavirus.
For the past 50 years african-Americans were Told they are the same as everybody else, but that never actually happened. The black community at large has almost no hope of getting out of the vicious cycle of poverty and crime without serious help from the government.
Just do clarify one last time, and then I’m done with you.
Was the medical examiner who said he died of not having asphyxiation lying? It’s a yes or no question. Was he speaking the truth or not?
And l’inyan chezkas kashrut, the cops originally tried lying about what happened. Do we believe them now?
Another option: have 30,000 cops/national guard/military police flood the streets the moment curfew starts and just have them arrest everyone and hold them for a day. Game over.
I’m not going to discuss the anti-civil rights people that we have here, but in response to whoever said that floyd was convicted of armed robbery, that was 13 years ago. And the fact that you think it’s an excuse for killing him shows how disgusting your way of thinking is. I dont have to explain why. If you cant understand, call a senior rav in your community.
My apologies health,
The 5-311 mistake wasn’t you.
The real 5-311 (edited)
5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)
Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)
Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)
Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)
Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure.
What we saw was an unconscious Neck Restraint. (As seen that the suspect was left unconscious.)
So then we look a paragraph a little further on,
The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)
The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)
On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
For life saving purposes, or;
On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
So the unconscious neck restraint is only supposed to be used when the suspect is actively resisting. Not the case here.
So, whether or not the officer was mostly following policy, he murdered Floyd. However in this case he definitely wasn’t following pd policy.
And you didn’t even bother answering my question, the question was: “ Are you advocating that the police sit on the necks of everyone who resisted arrest at any point of the arrest until they die?”
You answered that some pd’s sometimes use neck restraints.
I don’t understand how that was supposed to answer the question.
Additionally, your silence on my 2nd question is very telling.
I don’t like being lied to. Please don’t act like this. The article explains that the cities which allow it are mostly in situations that require DEADLY force.
Again, I don’t appreciate being lied to.
I’ll post the full article in a separate comment because I don’t know if the mods will let it through.
Split up the cops into groups of 50, and give each of them a zone to protect, if they catch people looting in their zone, go in and arrest them all. Tie their hands and feet. Have school buses ready to transport them to a large holding area somewhere. don’t antagonize the peaceful groups with teargas or arrests. If they’re not being violent leave them alone.
National guard is controlled by the governors, he can only send in military police which is very complicated to do.
Unfortunately you have completely lost me. Are you advocating that the police sit on the necks of everyone who resisted arrest at any point of the arrest until they die of coincidental cardiac arrest?
I sure hope not.
Interesting question for you, if instead of a black male it was a Frum yid would you be saying the same things?
(Thank you mods for allowing all my comments to go through, most websites don’t like it when I’m pro Floyd or call out racism. Also thanks for posting everything so fast.)
Additionally, what did Floyd die from? Coincidental cardiac arrest? Interesting…
First off, you didn’t watch the video, that much is obvious. Or you just skipped the beginning, middle and end.
“FLOYD DID NOT DIE OF ASPHYXIATION. HE WAS NOT CHOKED TO DEATH. The knee on his neck was a STANDARD, APPROVED method of restraining him, and did not block his airway.”
This is laughable. The medical examiner felt that he did. (Yes, I know you think that he lied for politics, but I wrote this point for others) the video shows that he did.(photoshopped?)
And he had to be restrained because he was in a delirium? I don’t think that was said even in the police’s original story, where on earth did you get that from?
And they never discussed how to restrain him, that’s simply a mistruth. (It’s not pc to call someone a liar.)
You’re right that Chauvin was only arrested to appease the mob, but that only shows the systematic attempts to cover up police brutality, and then you wonder why blacks are upset?
And then you explain that we desperately need the police because of looters. That’s true, (I don’t know why someone like you doesn’t think that all we need is the second amendment, but I assume you’ll start saying that closer to November) but it also doesn’t mean that police brutality is a good thing.
I’m willing to bet that if Floyd was a Frum yid, and the same exact story happened, you’d be singing a very different tune. You apparently have some sort of bias against certain kinds of people. (I’m not calling you a racist ch”v, you can take it however you want 🙂 )
Depends on the situation, if you have reason to believe he will harm you then no, if you warn him first then also not. If he is laying on the ground with his hands tied behind his back, then definitely.
I’m not sure What this has to do with anything. Please elaborate.
(Copy and pasted from Twitter @realDonaldTrump)
Great job last night at the White House by the U.S. @SecretService
. They were not only totally professional, but very cool. I was inside, watched every move, and couldn’t have felt more Safe. They let the “protesters” scream & rant as much as they wanted, but whenever someone got too frisky or out of line, they would quickly come down on them, hard – didn’t know what hit them. The front line was replaced with fresh agents, like magic. Big crowd, professionally organized, but nobody came close to breaching the fence. If they had they would have been greeted with the most vicious dogs, and most ominous weapons, I have ever seen. That’s when people would have been really badly hurt, at least. Many Secret Service agents just waiting for action. “We put the young ones on the front line, sir, they love it, and good practice.” As you saw last night, they were very cool & very professional. Never let it get out of hand. Thank you! On the bad side, the D.C. Mayor, Muriel Bowser, who is always looking for money & help, wouldn’t let the D.C. Police get involved. “Not their job.” Nice!
Wow, sounds like something any president would’ve said.
I think that even trump himself wouldn’t have said something like this 6 months ago.
People like Joseph and health. (Although I hope they are just trolling)
Joseph health & co,
Interestingly enough, there are no videos of Floyd resisting arrest, just a bunch of videos of him not resisting arrest.
Anyway, I’m glad to hear that if someone pushes an officer he now deserves to be choked to death. Does that also mean that if he wasn’t resisting the protesters are right for stealing from private business owners?
You people have a real sense of justice. I’m just happy you people aren’t police officers in my city.
You do realize that if not for the protests Chauvin would’ve gone scot free, right?
Coronavirus isn’t trumps fault.
Neither is George Floyd.
Impeachment was a joke.
Mainly just trump is.
Asylum seekers now wait in Mexico.
Boris Johnson. And besides, Who cares.
I don’t believe that to be true.
He definitely has gone over the edge since the beginning of coronavirus but the other choice is the crazy left which isn’t much better.
Democrats view about religion? They think it is a backwards way of thinking. View of America? An American flag was burned in DC last night and nobody said boo.
I was asking why, if a store has a sign saying “no mask no entry”, wouldn’t entering the store constitute trespassing. The position of invitee should be considered revoked.
The WHO also originally said not to wear masks because it makes things worse. And that Coronavirus isn’t contagious. Oh, and also that China fully cooperated from the start.
I never mentioned dina dimalchusa dina, and I don’t know the complicated halachos that apply to it, what I do know is that yidden always have to act respectfully in public. Call it whatever you want, but act respectfully.
Teens acting up at a parade is an issue, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. This was adults acting extremely disrespectful to police officers, Not teens being teens. As to your specific examples, I don’t know about what happened to give an opinion. Sorry.
As an aside, why is it that when a liberal compares separating children from their parents at the border to the holocaust it is anti-semitism, but when a yid calls a police officer a nazi because he told you to social distance during an epidemic it is ok?
Wow, I made such a long thread!
Oh well, this was supposed to be a more light hearted thread. I guess I should’ve realized this is just going to be another “we should/n’t open” thread.