gavra_at_work

the homosexual lobby is hypocritically opposed to that as well as polygamy (just ask them),

News to me, but I never asked.

I guess you did? 🙂

BT:

But it is still not practical, is it?

Perhaps your efforts should be to push Noahide law.

<annoying> Or even better, Sharia. </annoying>

Not to say your idealism isn’t a good thing, when tempered, and in the right place. But at this point, in the here and now, capital punishment would do more harm than good.

As a practical matter it isn’t.

I’m glad we agree as far as the point the OP brought up. No death penalty in America.

TheChevra:

No flame, but L’shitascha, the best way to make sure a Yid doesn’t die via the Death penalty is to abolish it in the first place.

WIY:

For some reason, I don’t think BT would agree with you: I await his/her response.

Japan, which has a real nationwide death penalty, has a FAR FAR lower violent crime rate than the U.S.

BT:

But when it applies to you (3 teens)…..

Try this on for size. Were you happy regarding the Grossman execution or not? And if not, why not?

Time for truth: Why won’t you date a ba’alas teshuva?

I think the title is wrong. The question maight be better answered if when we speak of the shidduch crisis, and all the girls out there.

Imagine you are a 24 year old Yeshiva Bochur. With all the choices and all the desperate girls, why should you date a ba’alas teshuva?

Anyone but Teddy.

You don’t get any “mitzva credit” for anything your tax dollars go to; whether it be supporting torah, poor people, or anything.

An essential element in tzedaka is that choosing to give it.

Not to be annoying, but BB 9a (bottom) disagrees, and says taxes do count towards Schar. (although I don’t see it brought down as Halacha in Rambam, perhaps because there is no Nafka Mina)

OK, so I took a quick look at my copy.

I couldn’t find the Tolstoy reference, but on page 305, R’ Nossan talks about how at a meeting with a number of Rabbonim in Ramle, as well as an Israeli official, the Israeli quoted Pushkin without mentioning him by name, and R’ Aharon corrected the official by saying the quote was from Pushkin.

Rav Yaakov was the one who read Tolstoy, but then again he (Rav Yaakov) is being marginalized in the Yeshivish world in general(for example, due to his insistence to have secular eduation in America through high school).

I have no hesitation in saying that the OP has presented a compelling story showing the hypocrisy of the last generation’s hashkafah.

Torah at all costs is not hypocrisy.

It was banned because it was disrespectful towards Gedolei Yisroel.

What a godol did in his youth, prior to reaching his gadlus, is not necessarily fit to print. We all stumbled in our lives, gedolim included.

1: So even the signers admit that it is true, but they don’t want others to know about it. As such, you retract your statement that “its not reliable because it was banned”. Fair enough.

2: Seemingly, that is a Machlokes between the current “Ultra Orthodox” (for lack of a better term) and the Torah, which does not at any time omit the failings of our leaders.

3: Besides, Rav Aharon was not embarassed that he read it, and did not see having read Tolstoy to be a problem (as he mentioned this once BMG started (IIRC)). As such, I see this (at best) as a Machlokes between the Gedolim, with Rav Aharon Kotler on the side that would not ban.

RSRH:

Israeli Gedolim’s Psakim don’t always apply to America.

Its not your idea, its (HaGadol) Rav Reuven Feinstein who said so.

Helpful:

Perhaps you are aware why the book was banned (if it really was banned).

BT said:

I explained in great detail how kollel guys are not on tzedakah. They are being compensated for a service.

I agree; Kollel is payment for work, just like a doctor. I will not get into the hetairim required to get paid for such work, as I assume a Rov was asked before the Bochur started Kollel.

However, getting a tuition deduction is not payment, it is at best a professional courtesy, and if not then it is Tzedaka, taken from those who do pay in full (perhaps willingly) and those who donate to the school.

The simple way to tell which one your school provides is to see if the G’vir’s children who are in Kollel’s also have the same tuition requirements as the poor kollel bochur.

If the Rich Kollel Bochur’s tuition is higher or full, then there is no professional courtesy. If they also don’t pay (even though it is well known that they can), then there is professional courtesy.

Agree with helpful.

In the first example, the Rov looks out for Limud Torah without regard for the girl.

In the second example, the Rov looks out for Limud Torah without regard for the girl.

Why is this a Steerah?

This statement is Kefira.

Back it up! Why is supporting contracts between men Kefira? After all, my Uncle might want me to be the legal next of kin over his wife or brother. Why is that Kefira?

It is all too easy to throw labels around.

Reply: Actually that is the best testament to its reliability.

That was going to be my point as well.

BT: Know what, I’ll play a little.

Why did the “Gedolim” (who banned the book without actually reading it, on the insistance of some people)(who excluded Rav Zelik Epstien & Rav Shternbuch, who both supported the book) ban the book?

Cognito ergo sum

(I know, not Yeshivish)

I would simply say Hashem wants Yiddin to learn his Torah. If you are a woman (and as such Hashem wants you to learn what is Nogayah to you, but not the same din of Limud), you should support learning Torah so that additional Torah is learned (BTW, you do not have to be married to support Torah and by doing so still have the outcome that Hashem wants).

R’ Aharon Kotler read Tolstoy.

Offen in Making of a Gadol.

GAW, if no one helped him out, at some point he would need to either steal to feed his family (not out of the question, people lie to get on government programs) or realize the error of his ways.

Too many people have chosen option 1, or the third option: Perhaps the family will just suffer (meaning third world suffer, not just miss out on the latest and greatest). Not to get into too many details, they do suffer. Untreated infections, lice, as well as minor things like shoes that have no soles.

Its easy to say they had too many children, or they should have gotten education, or they should have…whatever.

But now that it is done, what should we do? I just don’t see the answer being let the children suffer for the sins of the parents.

Maybe take the children away. Maybe embarass the parents in public. But not to allow the child to suffer.

SJS:

GAW, wouldn’t it be more beneficial to TEACH him that he is responsible and to get a job? (Granted, I don’t know the specifics, but in general…) If no one taught them and no one teaches them, how will they ever learn?

Yes, it might be if for 30-40 years he has not been taught that College is the tool of Satan, and w*rk is a four letter word that goes with other words that need stars to get by automatic censors. But at this point the mind is closed, and the society will kick him out.

And no, they will never learn. Nebuch on them.

But my mother raised me to realize that even if you don’t like something, you have to do it. If you get married and have children, you need to take care of them.

<sarcasm> A new concept in Yiddishkeit! </sarcasm>

BS”D

BUT there are others who were never taught that mentality, and have the “Magiya Li” attitude.

I was once learning with an Adom Gadol (who will remain nameless) B’Chavrusa when an Ani walked up and asked for a Haskama, which the Adom Gadol gave. I asked him “Rebbe, this person is not even trying to get a job (as I knew the situation, as did the Adom Gadol), how can you give him your Haskama to collect”, and he told me (with the sensitivity of an Adom Gadol) (paraphrasing) “There are those who were never taught to work, and were B’davka taught not to work, and that makes him eligible to get Tzedaka when he needs it, as he has no other way”.

My mind was opened after that encounter. We view those with physical and mental disabilities as Nebachs who need our support. Why shouldn’t we view those who have “mind” disabilities, as in closed minded, never learned and are closed to other options (due to the P’sakim of their Rabbonim or the attitude of their society) as the same “Nebach” and also needing support?

I don’t expect you to change your mind overnight. But try to realize that not everyone is capable, for whatever reason, and while it may even be their “fault”, as things stand, they need the support. And they should get it.

SJS:

Perhaps she does; It is one of the things that my local Bikur Cholim provides.

As I have said before, not everyone is as capable as you are.

Creating a legal agreement is one thing, binding that to traditional marriage is another.

Exactly why Paul is right, and government should get out of marriage while it still can.