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gavra_at_workParticipant
Smart cookie ,Sacrilege, and Wolf
In no place did I express my personal point of view, so comments like shtark, a bit off, and the like are misplaced. I simply am trying to teach the less informed what the yeshivishe point of view actually is. When official (gedolim sanctioned)yeshivishe hashkafah is discussed, terms like romance and ” in love” are not in the vocabulary. If you like the idea of romance , be aware that it is incompatible with yeshivishe hashkafah. As far as romance within marriage is concerned, it is tolerated when absolutely necessary, but it is not a virtuous practice and should be discoraged.
This just so wrong, I don’t even know where to begin.
The Gedolim (such as Rav Moshe, Rav Yaakov, R’ Akiva Eiger, etc.) “romanced” their wives during marriage.
The Stiepler in Iggeres HaKodesh writes how crucial it is to “romance” your wife.
The current generation of Rabbonim and Roshei yeshiva “Romance” their wives.
Either you have no clue, or you are talking about a specific sect (who will not be called out, as I have been warned on it before) that does these things K’neged Halacha.
gavra_at_workParticipantWe thank you.
Let’s not forget the hurt the abusers bring to our soldiers in uniform as well.
G@W
gavra_at_workParticipantMaaser is tithing, not taxes. Taxation is state-imposed and is not a mitzvah. Maaser is a mitzvah, and is given from HaShem. Two totally different things.
Not in a Theocracy; Or are we ignoring “Som Tasim Alecha Melech”?
Beis Din (i.e. the legal system) would force it if required, and that makes it a tax.
Also, I disagree that Taxation is not a Kiyum Mitzva (in some form, what I am not sure), see BB 9a.
gavra_at_workParticipantFirstly, oppressive taxation is not the Jewish way.
Tirumah, Maaser Rishon, Maaser Sheni, Maaser Ani, Mandatory Korbonos, Maaser B’Haima, Kofin on Tzedaka, Maaser Ksafim, etc 🙂
Besides, Yeravam’s revolt was mostly based on oppressive taxation.
Melachim 1:12:4-5
?????????????, ????????????-???, ????? (????????) ?????????, ?????-????? ??????????; ????????????, ???-????????? ??????. ? ???????, ???????? ???-????????; ???????? ?????? ????? ????????? ??????? ?????????, ?????????? ???????? ??????-????? ????????–?????????????
Then again, to find a Halachic Ani is either very easy (anyone with a mortgage) or very difficult:
????? ????? ????? ??? ?
? [??] ?? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??????, ???? ?? ????? ?? ??????; ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??????, ?? ????? ?? ?????. ??? ?? ?????? ???, ?? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???, ?? ???? ?? ?????? ???, ???? ???? ????? ???–??? ?? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???; ??? ?? ?????? ??? ????–????? ??? ?????? ?? ????, ??? ?? ???? ????. ??? ???? ????, ???? ?? ???? ???, ?? ???? ???????? ?????? ????–??? ?? ???? ????
gavra_at_workParticipantMedicare
Wic
Food Stamps
Section 8
gavra_at_workParticipantAnd if we are raising each generation to not be self sustainable, that’s a whole problem in and of itself.
Yup, but we are 20 years late for that one. And we (the Yeshiva World, not the two of us) refuse to be educated on finances. Besides that, as long as there is MOFES, we are “self sustainable”.
My point as related to the thread was that granted those who are on assistance should give every “extra” (whatever extra means) cent to the school. It still doesn’t allow you to withhold the report card from the child. As I pointed out in the beginning of the thread, it might allow you to remove the child from the school.
But a much better idea before it comes to that point is to raise (somewhat discreetly) a direct scholarship for that specific child’s tuition.
gavra_at_workParticipantSJS:
You are missing out a crucial point in the tuition calculations.
Most families on tuition assistance are aware that they will NEVER be able to pay tuition.
So they give up. It goes out of the equation. They pay (or try to) whatever the school asks of them, and they live their regular life with what they have left. They have no thought of attempting to pay more in tuiton, as the feel “since I will never get to full anyway, what is the point”.
Are they wrong? Probably, if they would ask their Rav, he would tell them so. IIRC Rav Schwab was Makpid not to accept donations from those parents on tuition assistance.
Will it change? Also not. Everyone believes tuition is way too high already, but most families have no choice. (Teaneck is different, as I will explain in a minute.) So they go on scholarship, and do what they want with the rest. But to punish the child is a bad idea, as they will resent the school and Torah for it.
Teaneck, on the other hand, has the option of JFS (I think) in SI, which makes the only excuse of sending to the “Legacy Schools” as they are called and not paying in full vs. paying in full and going on a 45 minute bus ride (boo hoo:(, laziness.
If you really wanted to change things, you would have to give a larger disincentive to go on scholarship. Back in the day, it was a Busha to have to give over your tax records to the school. Now, in the days of MOFES, no one cares. The schools need a new disincentive. And withholding the report card is not it.
gavra_at_workParticipantHelpful:
They could put out the list of scholarship children, with requests to “sponsor a child” (which is stam not a bad idea, if it is done the right way (with some Menschlichkeit)).
Menschlichkeit, you know… something between men… it’s about honor, and character… untranslatable. That’s why it’s Yiddish.
gavra_at_workParticipantGo visit the local kollel and watch the men learn for a day. What you will gain is priceless.
gavra_at_workParticipantWould any of you be happier if the school said we will give you your card but find another school for next year?
I am very torn on this one. On one side, to fault the child is wrong. On the other, the school has the right to withhold services if they are not receiving payment.
October 8, 2010 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm in reply to: Staying in Beis Medrash vs. Getting a Degree #699513gavra_at_workParticipantD9: Make sure they marry someone who is a dedicated as they are. If they really mean it, Bezras Hashem, they will not have Shalom Bayis issues.
gavra_at_workParticipantsince I’m female and don’t learn Gemara I can’t quote you Masechta and daf, but there is a famous Gemara that says that three things are acquired only through yisurim – Torah, Eretz Yisrael and Olam Haba
It is gemorah Brachos 5a (I quoted it two weeks ago regarding Torah):
???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?”? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???
October 8, 2010 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm in reply to: Do they teach girls how to cook in Seminary? #700403gavra_at_workParticipantBecause I personally don’t want to pay $20,000 for my child to learn to make cheesecake. For that, I can keep her home and teach her myself.
So why are you spending the 20K?
I think what is more practical is to give the girls apartments and have them be responsible for their meals. Give them a weekly apartment budget at the grocery store (so they learn to compromise on what they can afford) and have each girl responsible for a dinner. Then mentor the girl on simple, good food.
Sounds a lot (from what I understand) like the Mir Dirahs, or Michlalla for girls. That may be your best option, even though it is not a “Bais Yaakov Seminary” per say (which may be a plus for you).
gavra_at_workParticipantOK
gavra_at_workParticipantBagel, Tuna & Lettuce?
Sure it can help.
You make a Brocha on it.
You can use it to give you strength to do Avodas Hashem.
gavra_at_workParticipantmdd, if we are talking about incorrect/bad hashkafos, then we are.
But I am willing to concede for the sake of Shalom.
gavra_at_workParticipantSuffer? By living a mitzva?
If only it was that simple.
gavra_at_workParticipantIs hirhur arayos an issur or is it one of those not-such-nice- things-that-you-should-refrain-from?
Li Nireh, since you are a girl, it is the second. If you were male it would be the first.
My bigger problem is that I think the movies are affecting my haskafos, and thats why I think I’m more motivated to stop, or try to.
Then that is your answer. Acharei L’vavvichem is just as Assur as Acharei Eyneichem.
gavra_at_workParticipantSJS: That is correct, IIRC. The svorah being the Torah can not require a woman to place herself into sakana by going through childbirth (although I don’t remember the source).
And the “incomplete” is sort of my answer. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with my husband, otherwise he would be missing from it.
That exact concept is a large part of how I knew that I was going out with the right one (when I was dating Ittisa).
gavra_at_workParticipantIt is a good question.
When I believe my and my family’s yiddishkeit will not suffer tremendously due to moving to EY, I hope I will do so.
At this point (we do revisit the question often), for reasons that can not be discussed on an open forum, EY is not an option.
Bezras Hashem, Moshiach should come soon, and we will all know the truth, and then we will all be welcome.
Might I recommend the novel “Into the Whirlwind” by Tzippora Price, which deals with some of the issues involved.
gavra_at_workParticipantMatziv, I am not required to get married. I am not obligated in pru urevu. Why should I get married?
Not really true. There is a concept/mitzva of Sheves Yitzra, that all people should populate the world (see BB 13a (IIRC) by a half slave, and other gemaros as well).
I’m surprised that no one has said they feel incomplete without a partner in life.
gavra_at_workParticipantSA 233 MB SK 14 says you should finish before Shkia (as the MB says you should be Machmir for the shittos of Shkiyka being at sunset).
Hu Hadin here as well, you should finish before the Zman.
gavra_at_workParticipantAs a side point, black and white movies really are better than the current stuff, both in quality and for your soul.
Citizen Kane is a mussar shmooze in of itself.
October 6, 2010 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm in reply to: What does this mean, its a quote from the Kotzker. #699359gavra_at_workParticipant?? ?????????? ?????????? ???-????-?????, ????????? ???-????? ?????? ????????? ???-??????? ????????????–???-?????? ?????????? ????? ????????, ?????-???????? ????? ????????; ?????-????? ????? ?????, ??????
Melachim 1:18:21
gavra_at_workParticipantAll Torah is learned only with Divine Inspiration (what you would call Ruach HaKodesh), as it connects the Yid to his Source.
If it is not learned as a connection to the Source, rather as a subject, then that (seemingly) IS Apikorsus.
I like your “trying to define a gadol” statements: I do have issue with one minor point:
That is pretty much unanimously the derech of the Chofetz Chaim, Rav Chaim Brisker, and their great contemporaries.
Chassidim, Sephardim, Yekkies, etc. do not hold of or follow this derech. I would be very wary to exclude most of Klal Yisroel.
gavra_at_workParticipantMoq: I agree with you 100%. You just also have to add the seminaries that push kollel onto unsuspecting girls who never learned “Kach He Darko Shel Torah”, and Brachos 5a:
???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?”? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???
gavra_at_workParticipantNOT ONE PENNY. We don’t charge for kibudim in my shul.
I believe that is a general rule for Young Israel’s, as well.
And your husband would also probably get a Kibbud based on the
“o’sek on behalf of the shul or community” criterion.
gavra_at_workParticipantmdd
Member
A child is considered an autonomous extension of his parents till his bar mitsva or her bas mitsva age, and can be punished for the parents aveiros (Parshas Ki Teitze, Pashi on the posuk “Lo yumsu avos…”).
gavra_at_workParticipantSalt:
Salt is a mineral that is composed primarily of sodium chloride. It is essential for animal life in small quantities, but is harmful to animals and plants in excess. Salt flavor is one of the basic tastes, making salt one of the oldest, most ubiquitous food seasonings. Salting is an important method of food preservation.
Source – Wikipedia
gavra_at_workParticipantA good God is pretty much a universal, non-logical belief.
That’s only because the “Bad God” people either slaughtered each other or got slaughtered by others (Specificly the Kali cult by the British in the 19th century). It’s much easier to live with someone who is willing to leave you alone.
gavra_at_workParticipantAnd by the way, latin is soooo not yeshivish.
Oops. Got me.
It would have to be an ant with a major case of DID. But I hear your point.
gavra_at_workParticipantJust like we don’t know if we are the cosmic dream of an ant.
Not willing to use Descartes again? Cognito Ergo Sum!
gavra_at_workParticipantMoq:
The question doesn’t bother me, as I don’t see the inability to be lack of Omnipotence, rather proof of it.
gavra_at_workParticipantYasher Koach, Mr. 80.
gavra_at_workParticipantMoq:
Interesting solution to the Omnipotence paradox.
gavra_at_workParticipantAn actual teacher will put it to good use, maybe use it to help pay for Yom Tov expenses, etc.
How about we have a vote here in the CR which teacher they think deserves the money the most, and BP will send it to that teacher?
I recuse myself as I know nothing about Boro Park schools.
EDITED
September 7, 2010 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm in reply to: Asking Shaalos – When Should a Rov Be Available #695670gavra_at_workParticipantagree with lkwdfellow:
Is your Rav a “full time Rav” (i.e. being paid 6 figures) or “part time”?
If you only pay part time, only expect to get part time service.
gavra_at_workParticipantartchill:
If it is me, then a few things:
1: As I have already said, the idea is not to disallow children to go to yeshiva, it is to remove the sense of Yiyush from the parents. Not having Rachmanus on children whose parents don’t pay tuition doesn’t even enter the picture.
2: I have already said many times yeshivos should accept without regards to tuition.
3: If it is something specific, please tell me so that I can either explain myself, explain why I don’t really argue with you, or be Chozer.
4: Tuition is in no way my “signature issue”. Mod 80 knows what it is (I argue/disagree with him all the time on that one, and have been warned regarding it, and still harp on it).
Thanks,
G@W
September 3, 2010 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm in reply to: Help Yedei Chesed win the Pepsi Refresh Project! #695787gavra_at_workParticipantVoted
gavra_at_workParticipantBS”D
artchill: Mochul Luch. I’m the wrong target on that one (as you might have noticed).
To helpful/Kasha/missme/maxwell (and those in that group that I forgot). I sometimes forget that you are only fighting for Kavod HaTorah, and not for personal reasons CV. I ask from you mechila for not treating you with respect.
To anyone who was offended by my thoughts on tuition: I only try to make you understand that you do have the power to change things, instead of relying on “Matnas Basar V’Dam” to help you. I apologize & ask mechila if I came across as too harsh.
gavra_at_workParticipantModerator-80:
why do you need a written source for particular detail of tznius?
do you have a source for why six-inch high heels are not tznius?
you know what tznius is
you know why skin-tight clothing in a woman is not tznius
im not about to state it here.
your insistence on a source is as silly as could be.
only in todays immoral degenerate climate could you ask such a question
Excellent. I was waiting for someone to say this.
As I have said before, there are multiple aspects of Tznius, including Ervah and Hirrhur. Tight clothing does not fall under Ervah, rather Hirrhur.
Therefore, we need do make a judgement call as per what will cause hirrhur and what will not. You (as the wearer or husband) are probably Nogaiah B’Davar, so ask your Rav (who should be more impartial).
gavra_at_workParticipantKasha: Please explain to me how this gemorah proves anything regarding tight clothing, particularly sleeves?
Thanks.
gavra_at_workParticipantKasha:
I’ll take a look.
Thanks.
gavra_at_workParticipantTo Kasha & Missme:
In everyones fav. book by R. Falk, it says sleeves must not be loose.
gavra_at_workParticipantKasha: Love to see you! Welcome back!
I am just asking for a source, nothing more. Would you happen to have one?
gavra_at_workParticipantPrutza in the Gemorah (megillah 12b):
????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ?”? ?? ????
?????? ???? means Prutza (Rashi).
I can’t speak for current usage.
gavra_at_workParticipantSJSinNYC:
You are thinking of a Kedaisha.
gavra_at_workParticipantmissme:
Good. Source for the upper leg.
And source that they are the same, other than your “Boich Svarah” (got that term from the CR!)
gavra_at_workParticipantand hashkafa does make a difference. not all are created equal.
Don’t care which is equal. No one should have to pay/give tzedaka so that you can have the exact hashkafa that you want in the classroom.
gavra_at_workParticipantIs it because chasidim have the achdus to maintain a community based system of paying? Whereas the yeshivishe community doesn’t have enough ahavas yisroel achdus to accept a child from a talmid chochom father who is out of work?
Yes to the first, no to the second.
In almost all cases, the second would be accepted to any school (I would hope, and have seen). We are not asking about a temporary loss of income.
Also I would hope that Chassidim would accept non-chassic children who need a spot in a yeshiva. I would think they do.
To all those who answered “there are no additional costs”. What happens if there is only one spot (classroom can fit only x desks, even with the door off 🙂 and you have two children, one that pays and one that doesn’t. The school could really use the extra 6K, and what if they can bring in even more via donations and friends?
And besides, it really becomes a progression. If you accept 10 children who pay an average of half (lets say 4K out of 8K), you lose 40K for the class, and multiply by the number of classes, etc.
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