gavra_at_work

Popa:

Tobacco smoke (all types) gives me headaches, even when I smell it on someone’s clothing. And I’m not the only one.

The real answer (I think) is because the government has figured it can make more money on taxes than it will pay out in health costs.

If I were a Posek, I would bring a rayah from YD 139:8&13 as well as 149:4.

Ayin Shom, but I am not a Posek.

apushatayid:

I’m shocked, unless he is working for a top 3 firm. I just don’t see it with my friends in accounting positions, even the ones in NYC (where I would think they need to put in more time).

Lawyers are a different ballgame.

aries2756:

I’m not disagreeing with you, I just think it should be publicised as an option for those who want help.

smartcookie:

Yikes!

Put that with the parents who leave their children outside while shopping.

smartcookie:

OK, fair enough. That is why you interview (for a daysitter), have trial periods (together with people you trust), etc. so that you can tell that your children are safe.

Gavra-

But molesters usually are married.

Would they be in a non jewish society? Or would they be out in bars trying pick up lines?

Easy targets.

And what exactly can we do – other then sex ed, which most get anyway (one way or another). I mean, pilagshim?

One way or another is not good enough. They have to know they (teens in general, not predators) are normal.

See gemorah I quoted. Also repeal Cherem. Zonos (non jews) are NOT a problem on a D’Oraysah level (except according to the Rambam), and if discussed with a rav, may get heter. Spouses should be more attentive to male “needs”.

And the answer never is “do nothing”. Your idea of Chemical Castration is not a bad one (if it works), but a person may want to be proactive (at least until they are settled with a spouse). This would also work for the Mishkav Zochors. We could do this if the community just admitted there is a problem.

To quote the teshuva (as per BT):

However in a case where there is no proof that this activity is happening but it is merely a conjecture or suspicion, if we permit the calling of the authorities – not only would it not be an improvement (tikun olam) – but it would destroy society.

Seemingly, as long as there is reasonable suspicion (such as beyond reasonable doubt or even perponderance of the evidence), it would no longer be “merely a conjecture or suspicion” and even Rav Elyashiv would agree.

I still maintain that Rav Elyashiv was only talking about EY. To claim that the teshuva applies to anyone outside the circumstances that applies for the questioner is just conjecture.

(And yes, I know helpful & BT will disagree. They have no proof the P’sak applies in America, and repeating it will not change anyone’s mind).

Yes.

To support Reb Doniel:

Rov says the people you are helping are not Jews. As such, since the reasons of Aiva don’t apply, there is no use for these programs for us.

To support Ludwig:

Do you even begin to realize how many yeshiva & Kollel boys (and their families) would starve (and stop learning) if we followed the Austrian school & the tea party non-tax (Ayn Randism), thereby cutting programs, including MOFES and support to Israel?

“Because tznius and refinement means a lot more than just clothing to most frum girls.

I approve, and think this is correct. Yeshivish Girls would not be caught dead bowling.”

Yeshivish is relative. I think you are referring to the real eidel yeshivish types. I think a typical girl would go bowling.

Because tznius and refinement means a lot more than just clothing to most frum girls.

It also means a lot more than halacha.

It means the principals off their backs.

It means not missing a spot in sem because someone once saw them bowling.

And it means they might have a chance at the Lakewood Bochur and not staying single, as opposed to someone telling their prospective not to date her since they once saw her bowling.

There is much more at stake here than “unimportant” Tznius!!

smartcookie:

What is your agenda?

And please explain your experience or ulterior motive that (seemingly) makes you push this agenda.

I may be wrong; if so please explain your venom.

Thanks.

Because tznius and refinement means a lot more than just clothing to most frum girls.

I approve, and think this is correct. Yeshivish Girls would not be caught dead bowling.

If a couple met each other in college and then got married, there was definitely nothing ‘assur’ committed.

How is that possible if college is ‘assur’? 🙂

yes gavra that was sort of my intent

OK, thanks.

what do young girls need it for anyhow?

These young girls are looking to get married. Either treat them like adults or children.

You want them to be an adult, why shouldn’t they act like one?

You know I don’t like arguing with Mods.

Anyone else? (If you quote the same line, I will respond why the Mashel is invalid.)

I don’t own a TV, this is just Devil’s advocate.

ppl sign school agreements and say that they don’t have TV/ internet so how come I see so many frum ppl at blockbuster, and getting netflix?!?!?!

Why is this hypocrisy?

They don’t believe it is a problem. To obey the letter of what they signed, they don’t have a TV.

(Note: The schools/yeshivos where I am don’t make you sign anything (that I am aware of)).

Today in frum land you need 150k (in NYC) to make ends meet with a healthy size family – tuition, chasunas.

Scary, huh?

And I strongly believe you are UNDERestimating.

Moq:

merely business or work in order to live minimally

Is paying tuition “living minimally”?

gavra: Rav Moshe wrote this for the Governor of New York to encourage the implementation of the then proposed death penalty for first degree murder. It was applicable to more than Son of Sam; including non-serial murderers.

When there is 15,000 – 20,000 murders PER YEAR (compared to a Jewish Beis Din having ONE death case per SEVENTY [or seven] YEARS) in the United States, you definitely are in an emergency situation that requires saving society, is what Rav Moshe is saying. That’s why he wrote this.

Really? That’s not how I read it. And since I read it inside, and in the original hebrew, I will trust my judgement over yours. Besides, I don’t think your arguement is that you need capital punishemnt or society will fall apart, is it?

And you still haven’t answered which website you are quoting, and what biases it may have in the translation. I hope you will look at the teshuva inside (although you may already have prejudged).

BT: Really! Did you read the Teshuva inside?

He says it would only be for murderers who kill to disrupt the fabric of society AKA someone like Son of Sam.

As you quoted: then a different system of law was utilized that was concerned with the pragmatic question of stopping killing and the goal became saving the society.

R’ Moshe says (in the part you left off) that otherwise Capital Punishment should not be implemented! Due to lack of a Sanhedrin (as I said originally).

Please quote entire teshuvos, not just those parts that you believe help your case.

Besides, how are you getting the english translations so quickly? If you are copying, please source (besides, it would help us who have to read it in the original hebrew!!!)

Kate Connolly in Berlin The Guardian, Tuesday 27 February 2007

The state has an overriding interest in other cases.

(Just to play Devil’s advocate)