Health

Nechomah -“There was a recent article about a situation in Baltimore where a registered offender was reported to possibly be coming to their community and it was publicized so that people could take proper action. The rabbonim were more interested in protecting the children than in worrying about the offender or his family. It was on vozisneias. LA should take note of this situation.”

Yes, I agree with you. I’m familiar with that town and all I can say is they haven’t always been correct in their dealings with molesters, but a least in the most recent case -they did the right thing!

YOSSI151 – Read my recent post under the topic of -“What will make Moshiach come?”, regarding tuition.

WIY -“It bothers me too when I see peoples kids without a yarmulka but instead of screaming at the parents you can nicely tell the kid to put on his yarmulka.”

Do you go over to three year olds?

This kid was barely 3. So the guy had to call out the father. I don’t think it was any of his business. People take Kol Yisroel Aravim etc. too far.

And the biggest joke is (I just thought of this now, btw) we have people like me, who can’t afford tuition and there is noone in the Frum community to help.

You know where the word Arave comes from? The Gemorra uses for s/o to guarantee s/o else’s loan. I realize from the other topic just started about tuition that there are many people who can’t

afford tuition. And there are many people living in the lap of luxury who just finished their big summer vacations.

So before all you “Aravim” start giving Mussar to other Jews -how about being an Arave with other Jews in their financial lackings?

And to spell it out because a lot of rich people have no clue what poor people are lacking – poor people need food, clothing, shelter, school tuition, insurance, etc. (I’m not listing every basic necessity, but you get the gist.)

Josh31 -“I speak this way because I feel I am one of them.”

Ok, so you’re part of the Israeli gov. Do you also live like them – in riches off the backs of the Israeli taxpayer?

“And an attack on Israel is an an attack on all Jews.”

Again more zionist lies – they didn’t set sail to attack Israel only to bring stuff to Gaza.

“You talk as if you are part of the Iran regime and help put forth their Blood Libel against us.”

So now you’re making accusations against me that I tow the Iranian line and I’m making a blood libel.

To spew such hatred against a fellow Jew because I don’t have your political beliefs and I won’t bow down to the Zionist idol is shocking to say the least, but not surprising!

I think you need to do some soul searching and see what our Torah says about your behavior.

It’s funny how all the Zionists here are always calling out the Chareidim about Sinas Chinum. Like I said before, if you peel back the outer layers of the zionists – you see what’s underneath.

Now we see who the real haters are!

“These wretched flotillas consist of the biggest Jew haters on this planet. They want the middle east to be Judenrein (G-d forbid) and are willing to die in that cause.”

And you know that how? Did they tell you what their real motive is? It’s quite possible they are Jewish enemies and it’s also possible they just want to help Gazans. You have no proof either way – so your making an assumption based on what the Israeli gov. claims. Logically, I’d say if these were Israeli or Jewish enemies -their ships would be loaded with arms, which they weren’t. But when it comes to believing anything the Zionist State claims -you don’t need logic -you just need to follow them blindly. Logic is beside the point!

Josh31 -“Correct: Satmar does not believe in handing millions of Jews over to a non Jewish regime (which sends those lovely boats of freedom fighters at us).”

What are you -the spokesman for the Zionist regime?

You must be because you seem well versed in their lies. The Turkish boat was headed to Gaza, not to Israel. Your Zionist Gov. pulled out from Gaza – remember? The Israelis boarded their boat convinced that they are within their rights. More lies. If they think that they have the international legal right to blockade Gaza when they abandoned their sovereignty, they should think again.

They do have the right between their border and Gaza to search for illegal contraband and they do. But at the most that they can legally do is allow the boats to dock in Gaza and then to search them. But they know they can’t even legally do this because if they could – they’d stand inside Gaza by the Egyptian border to stop all the illegal contraband.

So why do they blockade Gaza -since everything including arms flow freely through Egypt? Because they think that they can do whatever they want – whenever they want. The Turks didn’t hate them, but Israel stepped all over them by boarding their boat carrying not weapons, but humanitarian supplies.

Even though they don’t protect Jews by handing over Gaza to the terrorists – they pretend that they are protecting Jews by having a blockade of Gaza. The only ones fooled are guys like you who are drunk with the Zionists’ Kool-aid!

ROB -Wow -It’s definitely Moshiach times – two things we agree on.

The singing of things at the Siyum and R. Shlomo Carlbach z’l.

Curiosity -“It’s like talking to a brick.”

And I’d rather talk to the wall, than to Zionists.

computerbagels – I davened in the Gerrer Shteeble on Ave A, Rav Rottenberg’s shul, Nachlas Haleveiim & Cong Yodei Binah. I’m not from there, but I had relatives there.

AZOI.IS – It’s called liberalism at it’s finest. And YWN posted an article/Op-ed why Jews shouldn’t vote for Romney. All I can say is if Pres. Obama gets in, the left will continue even more with their moral downslide.

It’s never that way with humans -to have true equality – the more liberal they become – the less tolerance they have of others that are different than them, esp. when it comes to religion.

You can see that clearly in very liberal Europe. Recently over there – there has been attacks on Shechita and Mila.

rabbiofberlin -“health- I have not stopped laughing this morning since reading your posting.”

Yes, Letzonus is the way you and your kind evade any Mussar.

“You have not stopped accusing millions of Jews of being pagans, kofrim,”

So I guess e/o who is a Jew and esp. if they happen to live in Israel, are all Shomrei Torah Oomitzvos? You keep living in your little Utopia.

“you have denigrated tens ofv thousands of jews who gave their time ,and some their life,to protect their brotehrs and sisters, not to mention the phantasmagoric ideas you carry around about Eretz Yisroel , and you call ME uncivil???”

Yes, uncivil and uncouth! And btw, answer my question that I posted on the other topic.

Feif Un -“Health: I find it funny that you use Eilu v’eilu regarding military service, but refuse to acknowledge it regarding the existence of the state.”

You continue to Feif Un. This was discussed many years ago in the CR and I wasn’t part of the discussion. It’s a very long post, but I took out the first paragraph.

From -“Still Fuming at Rabbi Belsky and Mishpacha”:

“Matisyohu28 –

Now, re; rav kook – it does not matter to me if you think he was a gadol; the consensus of EVERY other authority was that he was not, or rather, he was a huge talmid chacham, but went off with his zionism. The chofetz chaim held very little of him, as did the brisker rov, reb ahron, reb elchonon, the gerrer rebbe, the satmar rov, and a huge roster of people you know basically nothing of.

You want the gedolim to admit their mistake about the medina – this operates under the assumption that they were mistaken. I forgot of course, that you know more than them. forgive me. Please, tell me who is mistaken – a man who writes about how holy mechalel shabbos soccer players are, because they buy real estate for the sake of a nationalistic entity, which in the words of rav avigdor miller, was the worst thing to ever happen to the jewish people ever(the brisker rov said the same thing), or the entire spectrum of the frum world with the exception of one man who after making the wrong decision was denounced as a rasha and an apikores, at the very elast, by pinacles of shmiras halashon and ahavas yisroel. Rav Kook had no answers to the clear proofs against zionism that the religious zionists churned out – neither do you, and neither did rabbi zimmerman, lamm, rav soleveitchik, or anyone else – did you ever learn vayoel moshe? it should take care of whatever garbage ideas about zionism or the great avodah zara called the medina that you hold above the gedolim.

I wonder what you would say if rav kook was not a zionist…perhaps then, you would take the medina over all the gedolim, after all, acccording to rabbiofberlin-ism, we dont need to listen to the gedolim, but rather we must worship the mighty and holy mind, the individual thinker, the arrogant, secular thinker who thinks for himself(based on what his desires tell him)!

Also, for the record, rav kook would never have agreed with your ideas about emunas chachamim – he also, for the record, wanted women not to vote, and had tznius standards found in hardly any kehilos today, which Im sure you disagree with, being an independent thinker, however this does not stop religious zionist amharatzim from quoting him, without followinh him on his other shitos. They then, become tremendous, irrational machmirim when it comes to things like aliyah(a secular, nationalistic idea which rapes the idea of true yishuv haaretz by instead using it as a ploy to support the medina), and irrational, illogical maikilim when it comes to tznius and women’s ‘rights’, based on, for the record, no shitos(as in, there are no shitos that women can learn gemora, and certainly, rav kook never would have allowed such a thing)

Even though he was a huge talmid chacham; so was korach, and many other poeple who were mistaken. Reb elchonon called him an apikores, the satmar rov said it was assur to read his seforim; you want to follow that shita? well, research the machlokes, if there even was one, and you will see how wrong he was; except rav kook had far more respect for the gedolim than you, especially rav zonnefeld(perhaps the most anti-zionist in the old yishuv), even after the zionism issue.

You blindly follow rav kook – do you know what he based his shitos on? I doubt it. Because any halachik notion he and the entire mizrachi establishment have thought up have been successfully defeated, easily at that. This is because the soton works on emotions mostly, and not reason, so all you have to do is put the fear of holocuasts in a jw’s heart and you’ll have him belieing in the medina(which im sure, like your fellow zionist buddies, you’d ‘die for’, right?)

The odd thing is, most religious zionists will fall into two groups:

A) those who defame universally accepted gedolim, like the brisker rov, reb ahron, rav shach, reb elchonon, and many others who were anti-zionist, especially the satmar rov zt’l. They only defame him the most because he was the only one who wrote a comprehensive sefer on zionism, based on stories which are unverifiable, as well as quotations which are either non-existant or totally misunderstood.

B) when they realize they cant defame them, either because they have some conscious and cannot bring themselves to lie or spread slander, they then begin trying to make it seem like these gedolim were in fact zionists(i once heard on arutz sheva that they claimed that the satmar rov advocated zionism for goyim..feh)

C) ‘divrei elokim chaim’–ists – people who have enough sechel to acknowledge and respect such gedolim, and who say ‘well, we disagree with their shita , and instead we follow rav kook’

C is perhaps the dumbest of all, since the basic idea of eilu veilu, is that you cannot have that concept when one claims the other is wrong. Basically, this means that if Rov A says that rov B is an apikores, that is no longer eli veilu. This idea only works when one may be followed factually, but we say the other was right, because he used torah methodology to reach his conclusion, hence, even though he was factually wrong, he is still ‘right’ in the sense that his ideas were divine.

This is best shown in the gemora which has a shita that moshiach is not coming – obvbiously, we do not hold like this, and it is factually wrong, but it is still divrei elokim chaim, because it was derived through torah methodology.

Zionism, is different. It is a secular, idolatrous(in the words of reb elchonon) movement which some people misguidedly tried to make religious(also reb elchonon, they added religion to avodah zara), with faulty proofs from the torah and a lack of answers to the clear disproofs from the torah, then if a rov comes up with a shita, which the gerrer rebbe said came from ‘rav kook’s ahavas yisroel’, which howver is incorrect, then it is no longer eilu veilu, but simply wrong.

PLease, read vayoel moshe – I can almost guarantee any tainah you have is in there, or if not, it is too elementary to even be dealt with by such an advanced sefer. Also recommended is kovetz ma’amarim by reb elchonon, and michtavim uma’amarim from rav shach.”

Josh31 -“Health, you have gone far beyond the Satmar shitta and have crossed more than one line thereby exiting our Machana and joining the Machana of Gog U’Magog. Goodbye.”

I got news for you -I never was in your “Machana”! As to whether I’m in the team of Gog U’magog -I like to think I’m in the team of “Real Jews” – that have real Torah principles!

GAW -“This sentence is self contradictory.”

No, it’s not, because it’s my recognition of “Ailu V’ailu etc.”

OTOH, noone from the other side whether Frum or Frei has recognized as legitimate the point that the Frumme should Not be forced to go to the army. Even if you say there are those that disagree with the new directives from the IDF – since they aren’t demanding the Gov. to stop this -it’s Shtika Khoydoh!

Breslever -“So women should just not daven at the wall or kivrei tzaddikim? Fantastic!”

That’s right – you don’t make a State against the Torah, just so women can go Daven.

“Of course I have. How come you have never heard of ain od milvado? Just because you don’t understand how free will can exist in harmony with everything coming from Hashem, doesn’t mean that it isn’t the case.”

Hashem allows it, but it doesn’t mean he agrees to it!

“That should have no impediment on you living in Eretz Yisrael.”

I posted many times -you don’t have to because it’s a Mokom Sakana.

“So it seems the only one stuck to the past is you. The Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rav Ovadia Yosef, all the big tzaddikim from litvish, Belzer/Gerrer Rebbeim etc all knew that there is a clear and overriding issue of pikuach nefesh that dictates how we must relate to the medinah.”

Therefore what? So I can hold like the Gedolim that say we should even dismantle it now!

“Your nostalgic dreams of Ottoman Turkish rule are a modern day fairy tale. The facts on the ground are such:

1. The medinah exists.”

Hopefully not for long!

“2. It’s facilitating the fulfillment of the mitzvah of living in Eretz Yisrael and studying Torah in Eretz Yisrael en masse.”

Yea, actually Jews lived there and had Yeshivos there before the Medina!

“3. Ceeding land presents a clear danger to the lives of Yidden and is assur d’oraita.”

I said give up the whole country. But as for ceeding land lots of Gedolim held you could for peace, like Rav Schach zt’l.

“4. Hashem runs the World. Don’t like it? Take it up with Him. I advise doing so from Eretz Yisrael, preferably the Kotel.”

Yes, he does run the world and Moshiach will come much quicker without the Medina in existance!

gavra_at_work -“Health:However, since Rav Aharon Lichtenstein & Rav Aharon Shteinman (both Gedolei HaDor) agree that there is room to serve in the IDF, I can not fathom how it would be “breaking Halacha”. I assume they have answers, even if I don’t.”

My point wasn’t to Pasken or to say these Gedolim are wrong, but to point out that there is a strong religious reason for those from the Frum community who don’t want to join up. They should Not be forced to join because the PC amongst the Freye (and even amongst some “Frum” zionists -like those that post here) is – It’s not fair. There was a “Status Quo” from the begining of the Medina that they didn’t force the Yeshiva guys into the army.

These Freye were quite intelligent, not like the populace nowadays. So why did they agree to it? Perhaps because they realized that the Frumme would add something to the country even without them going into the army.

The little I know –

“NJ_Mom:

We begin the process with rabbonim because the get should be done first. I don’t know laws in NJ (if that’s the jurisdiction where this couple is), but there might be a get law as in NY.”

There is No “Get” law in Jersey – speaking from experience.

How come the “Get” law in NY isn’t called forcing the “Get” on the woman, which we don’t do acc. to Halacha?

Of course on the man it’s a good thing!

Breslever -“Mechitza is a Halacha LeMoshe MiSinai, how can you suggest it isn’t needed?

Regardless, were they free to put them up?”

The Minhag or tradition was that women didn’t go. It wasn’t the tourist attraction it is now. We didn’t need to make a Medina, against Hashem’s will, to make all the Mekomos Hakedoshim into tourist attractions!

“According to the Turkish firman, they were not permitted to bring seforim to the Kotel. Whether that firman was actually enforced or not, I don’t know nor do I care. One does not need to have any knowledge of history to know of the antagonism of the arabs toward Yidden.

Also, you have again dodged the point. Were we free? Would we all have been allowed to fulfill the mitzvah of living in Eretz Yisrael?”

During the time of Turkey’s rule there wasn’t the desire by many Jews to live there. The Freye only decided to live there when Zionism picked up. After the second WW -Jews tried to move anywhere they could.

“The zionists have free will, but if you are implying that the formation of and existence of the medinah along with the Yidden who move to and live in Eretz Yisrael is not His razon, then you are denying the fundamental principal that everything comes from Hashem.”

No, it’s not! We have free will to do what we want whether it’s good or bad. This is a fundamental principLE (not s/o in charge of schools.) which is called “Bechira” in Judaism. How come you never heard of this?

“In that case, there’s no point continuing this discussion as it seems your lack of emunah stems from the fact you simply don’t want to believe.”

No, I don’t believe in Zionism or the State. It’s Ossur right now acc. to almost e/o to have a State based on Kefira. The only question amongst the Gedolim is what to do about it now that it’s here. Except for a very few e/o held you’re not allowed to make such a Medina!

hudi – He is or was Chabad. That must have been a rerun. Acc. to the topic here in the CR -that happenned a few months ago.

apushatayid -“Health. I didnt read it either.”

Why do you feel that I should answer your posts without you having to read all the posts in the topic? Your posts end up being silly.

“Moslems do not like jews, especially religious moslems and “the land” has nothing to do with it. Just ask the moslems in Indonesia, Malaysia and Pakistan who never came within 1000 miles of the middle east.”

This is what happens when you don’t read the posts.

Ah please, No Goyim like Yidden.

“If you are so eager to live under turkish rule, why dont you pick up and move to istanbul?”

Again more nonsense. I never said that it’s great to live in Turkey. I said it’s Ossur to have a Medina and a way to get rid of the Medina without any bloodshed is to give it to Turkey!

GAW – Forget about Kol Isha right now. Why are there women in the IDF? (I actually posted this before.) Let’s see -Eh because they make better soldiers because they are as strong as Amazon women?

Uh-unh. I’ll let you in on a little secret -it’s because they are good for morale. So it’s not like the US because e/o is equal -so you can work in professions that used to be reserved for men and now have women. Going to the IDF is the classic case where Yahrog V’al Yavor applies!

Avi K -“However, turning over the entire country is a bittul of the mitzva to conquer EY.”

Even if you’re correct and there are Rishonim that hold this -this would only apply to Frum Jews and right now Frum Jews aren’t strong enough to conquer anything. So the Mitzva can not be in force nowadays. But the Chiyuv not to anger the Goyim with a Treif State is. And I told you a million times these Rishonim would Not hold that EY has to be conquered and a State established based on Kefira, like the Medina is!

“Moroever, as the government does not own the land but is only a caretaker for Am Yisrael until the ownership of the nachalot can be established such a transaction would have no force or effect.”

Nooone said to give them any land.

Give them the Gov. and just make sure noone takes them to a Din Torah! 😉 LOL.

Feif Un – This letter was posted before. And stop with your lies -I’m not Joseph. I know it’s quite shocking to you, esp. in your little MO world, but there are thousands upon thousands who are against the Medina, not just me & Joseph!

Whiteberry -“But america, the goldener medina, where nobody is forced to serve in the army, whose entitlement programs probably support more torah than anyone in the world bar none (well perhaps aside from “the medina) and whose policies and culture help foster growth in yiras shamayim, surely her national anthem should have been sung.”

You’re probably being sarcastic, but America and everywhere is Golus and not good for Jews! And Israel in Not part of the Geula -it’s also Golus!

musicaldignity -“Thanks for the information. I am thinking towards a career as a graphic/web designer”

There are tons of Frum non-mixed schools who teach this, but you don’t get a degree usually, just a certificate.

apushatayid -“Has anyone on this thread made such a claim?”

Yea, ROB did and I quote -“continues to be the haven for Jews from all over the world, as the rest of the world slowly implodes.”

The implication is – the only Savior for the Jews is the Medina!