Forum Replies Created
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nishtdayngesheft -“not even the study he co(made up) authored.”
So is that how the ones who believe in MBP get around the Issur D’oraysa of Sakonos Nefoshos? Since Rabbi Tendler put his name in the article -so it must be false? I personally believe you can do MBP, but only with a guideline, like I posted previously.
If the community and their Rabbonim and the Mohelim are going to pretend there is No danger -they all will end up being Metztaref in the Issur of Rezicha, if they haven’t already.
Here is the article printed in “Pediatrics” from the AAP. Just the abstract:
“Neonatal Genital Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 Infection After Jewish Ritual Circumcision: Modern Medicine and Religious Tradition”
+ Author Affiliations”
“*Pediatric Hematology/Oncology Unit, Soroka University Medical Center and the Faculty of Health Sciences, Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel
?Department of Pediatrics, Hadassah University Hospital, Ein Kerem, Jerusalem, Israel
#Department of Pediatric Laboratory Medicine, Hospital for Sick Children and the University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
**Department of Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology, Hospital for Sick Children and the University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
“Abstract
Objective. Genital neonatal herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1) infection was observed in a series of neonates after traditional Jewish ritual circumcision. The objective of this study was to describe neonate genital HSV-1 infection after ritual circumcision and investigate the association between genital HSV-1 after circumcision and the practice of the traditional circumcision.
Methods. Eight neonates with genital HSV-1 infection after ritual circumcision were identified.
Chance -“SO now instead of blaming the vaccine they blame the parents for shaking the baby, but better yet , blame the Mohel, who just did a bris on a baby that got the HEP b vaccine at birth, and now the hep b virus is transfered to the mohel, so the mohel is causing the baby to die.”
You just proved the adage of -“Some people never change”.
It must be fun living your whole life with conspiracy theories.
So let me get this straight -the baby comes down with Hep B from a Non-living vaccine and then gives it to the Mohel who in turn passes it on to other kids and then they die from Hep B and not from Herpes? Just making sure I understand the theory correctly.
Btw, what’s your opinion on whether men actually landed on the moon? How about JFK -who killed him?
shlishi -“So just as they insist on continuing metzitza with a tube because Chazal were Kovea it, we insist on continuing MBP because Chazal were Kovea it.”
I agree that MBP should continue, but only if there is a guideline. They could use mine that I posted above or a different one, but they can’t continue to pretend there is No danger to the babies!
DaasYochid -“Women obtain “da’as” at 12, men at 13.
The fact that women mature faster than men is Halacha L’Moshe Mi’Sinai.”
Daas has nothing to do with maturity. If it did – there would be no Machlokes in the Gemorah when does a girl and boy become Mechuyav in Mitzvos. One Shitta holds -boys at 12 & girls at 13.
PBA -“What is so shocking, is that even men accept it as fact, because it is told to them so confidently, and with such simple evidence like that girls date at 19 while boys date at 23. Nobody even stops to consider whether it is true at all, or any contrary evidence, like chassidim where the boys get married at 18.”
I believe that this is true more often than not.
Our generation in general has trouble becoming mature -boys and girls.
But I think that girls 18 -25 are more mature than boys the same age in the Frum world. The reason being a girl this age usually has mature responsibilities, eg. work, but a guy in Yeshiva doesn’t have any mature responsibilities. He does the same thing that he’s been doing since he started school as a little kid.
bubka -“Whereas men tend to respond intellectually to situations, women more often respond emotionally.
This fact is not only acknowledged in the human sciences but is often alluded to in Torah sources.”
This I think this is Pshat in the Posuk of “Even one out of a thousand I didn’t find”. The Gemorah explains that by men 1 out of a thousand become a Poisek. But what did Shloimah Hamelech mean that you don’t even find one out of a thousand by women? He can’t mean you don’t find one of a thousand women becoming Poiskim, because women aren’t trying to become Poiskim.
He was talking about intelligence. Am I saying that even one out of a thousand women aren’t intelligent? No.
But in a situation were intelligence and emotions collide, emotions will take over in more than a thousand women!
PBA -Because even if it was 1% of Mohelim who don’t have it -the parents have that right to know.
Right now the ball is in the Mohelim’s court -I’m just evening the play.
Not like Zdad, I don’t feel all HSV pos. have no right to practice Mila or MBP.
“How about just saying if you have open sores you shouldn’t do MBP that day? (You could just have the father do it.)”
This wouldn’t solve anything. Anyone who is HSV pos. (both 1 & 2) sheds virus all the time, even when asymptomatic. Although when they don’t have the actual cold sore they are less contagious, but not entirely Non-contagious. And unless the father is HSV -neg., then giving the job to the father makes zero difference.
We have to protect the rights of innocent babies, along with the rights of anyone who wants to practice Mila and MBP!
PBA – Please reread my comments. I didn’t say Mohelim who test pos. Cannot perform Mila or even MBP. I just gave them certain restrictions.
Babies health, esp. when it could be Sakanos Nefoshos is Not Hefker!
HaLeiVi -“Opinion is one thing. Attacking others publicly and inviting government intervention for his ‘opinion’ is beyond the pale.”
This comment I agree with, but there is a Limud Zecus for Rabbi Dr. Tendler. It seems he helped publish an article written in the AAP mag “Pediatrics”, awhile ago. It seems Docs in Israel have basically proven that MBP causes HSV-1 in infants.
So I understand his frustration because it seems that e/o is ignoring the 800 lb. gorilla in the room.
Awhile ago I called for a panel to discuss this issue and come out with recommendations. As far as I know the “powers that be” have Not done anything of the sort. It seems they have swept this under the carpet just like the molestation issue.
So I’ll recommend guidelines myself and here they are:
1. All Mohelim should be tested for HSV 1 & 2.
2. Those that test negative should be retested every 3 months.
3. Those that test positive should not perform MBP without explaining the risks to the parents; it doesn’t have to be a written explanation.
4. If the parents want the Mohel that is HSV pos. to go ahead anyway with MBP, then the Parents should be given the option that the Mohel has to take antivirals, starting a few days before the Mila, to lessen the chance of the infant picking up the HSV.
The Mohel doesn’t have to continue taking the drugs after the Mila, unless he wants to.
5. Those Mohelim that don’t want to comply with this guideline should Not be allowed to practice Mila!
Now the only problem is getting the Gedolim to implement the guideline.
A Frum Judge isn’t so bad. Most Goyishe Judges are slightly Antisemitic. The worse are the Frey Jews. I’ve had two in previous cases. One was openly anti-Frum Yidden and the other was subtly Anti-Frum.
We need to get out of Golus to have real Judgments based on Torah. It’s very hard for a Frum Yid to get real Justice in the US.
WIY -“Health -We have to fight this in any way we can because they wont go away thats the point.”
You don’t know that since you’re not a Novi. I say stop fighting them and it will go away.
“They had no business meddling in the first place theres plenty of unfinished business in other areas for the DOH to be occupied with. It is a chutzpah to interfere with a religious observance that has been carried out for thousands of years and is safe and has yet to be proven unsafe. They have malicious intentions and are not doing this for our good believe me. These guys are on an ego trip and must be shut down.”
This is fine and dandy, but fighting them at this point will cause more harm than good. I have an idea. Let this order to sign some paper alone and instead Daven hard over the Yomim Norayim that they shouldn’t go further.
WIY -And what are you going to do about it? Join the Agudah’s lawsuit? The lawsuit doesn’t stand a chance. If e/o would just ignore them, maybe they would go away. Fighting them is just going to add fuel to their fire and make them want to illegalize MBP & Milah itself!
getzel1 -I agree about the Rebbe. The Rebbe has every right to protest about this amongst Yidden. The problem I have is protesting this amongst the Goyim, like the Agudah is doing. This will push them to try and do more Geziros against Frum Yidden.
If we don’t make a mountain out of a moehill, perhaps this will all blow over.
And this incident is all the more reason to vote Repub., because right now, they are the only ones who care about religious rights in this country. The Dems care about womens’ rights, minority rights, illegal immigrant rights, Toeivah rights, but religious rights they don’t believe in!
Showjoe -“it was filmed as the secret service killed JFK”
You got it wrong. It was Hoover and his FBI who hired the Mob to do it.
PBT -“Reply to Health:
The reason evil triumphs so often isn’t because there are so many evil people, but because there are too many good people who don’t act to stop the evil. This is evil. This isn’t just trivial President bashing or political conversation which has been a questionable use of our First Amendment rights. This gizera goes to the heart of the U.S. Constitution’s guarantee of religious liberty, as well as against Halacha. This gizera is an evil that good people need to take action to stop.”
Did you even read all the posts? What Gezira is against the Constitution and/or Halacha? Are you trying to tell me making s/o sign a paper is against your constitutional rights? Are you trying to tell me making s/o sign a paper is against Halacha? If you are, you’re sadly mistaken!
Save your anger and protest for a real issue!
yitzchokm -“Health-
wha! where did that come from?”
It comes from wisdom & experience.
“Your advice would have worked well with MLK and others.
Just let others trample on your rights. And don’t stand up to them because…….
they might make fun of you.”
Stop letting your emotions get the better of you -try to use some logic. African -Amer. didn’t have civil rights at that time. Making you sign a paper isn’t outlawing it – which if they do, then at that time it would make it into a civil rights issue.
yytz -“1. 90% of Blacks vote democratic and have for decades; it’s only slightly increased with Obama.”
More nonsense from the liberal left. Minorities always have voted Dem, but they always had low turnout. All of a sudden they came in droves for Obama. Perhaps you can explain why?!?!
But you really don’t have to because I know the reason already.
shein -“They have. And they should be filing suit if the city passes this.”
They should keep quiet. What’s going to happen is if they protest the consent doctrine, the court case will make national news and all the antisemites (Jew & Non-Jew) will come out of the woodwork trying to outlaw MBP and perhaps Milah, all over the country. If they keep quiet, perhaps this will blow over. It’s not possible to enforce anyway because Milah is a cash business and it’s under the table. If the Mohel does it in-hospital, then the parents will have to sign. Don’t add fuel to their fire. This is Golus and it might backfire.
Poster -“Health – ? I don’t get it..”
Probably because you didn’t grow up in the ‘hood like I did.
Poster -“Why are pple voting for Obama”
I was told that many people were asked this question and they answered – “Because he’s my brother.”
zahavasdad -“The Rambam holds that the moon is a spiritual place not a physical place so a landing was not possible.”
Source?
“Rav Yaakov Kamminetsky when the original moon landing occured rushed to watch it on TV as he wanted to know if the Rambam was right or wrong.”
That’s not what I heard. I heard he said that Pshat is noone can touch any heavenly objects. So how did man touch the moon? He answered- if you can only touch it with a spacesuit -this isn’t called touching.
Sam2 -“Unless I am grossly misrecalling this, he doesn’t require a Mechitzah nor does he say that they can’t sit next to each other. (Maybe he is assuming that they already weren’t, but I don’t recall it saying that in the T’shuvah.)”
That’s exactly my point. He is assuming it, because if he held sitting next to or very near each other wasn’t Taaruvous -he’d say so!
In the olden times, well not that long ago, in the Frum world, not the MO world, Yeshiva dinners/ Chasunahs were almost all mixed. But people sat next to their wives, family, etc. Noone sat next to or very near, strange women/girls.
If you sit next to a strange girl/woman during a Torah Shiur, this is a classic case of “Mitzva Haboh B’aveira”!
I’m pretty sure it was just like this year. On a Tues. -the third day of Selichos.
Sam – Are you now saying Rav Moshe was Mattir giving a Shiur when men and ladies were sitting next to each other? I don’t believe he ever did this.
TCG -“HR department during surgery hours.”
I’m American. Everything else you posted I understand, but not the above. Please explain.
Sam2 -“WIY: I don’t know. As far as I know he doesn’t have a T’shuvah on that issue. I was just pointing out that a Mechitzah wouldn’t be the deciding factor.”
You most certainly do know, but you pretend. 1. Rav Moshe was talking about a man giving a Shiur to ladies. 2. I even seen Chashuva Rabbis giving a Speech/Shiur to ladies and men at the same time, but they were separated. Don’t you have an imagination? From the description, it sounded like a small Shiur and the girls were real close by. Stop trying to say everything is Mutter. I’m not a Machmir, but this is obviously Ossur.
Matan1 -“What was wrong with the girls coming to the shiur. Nobody was making them go. They were learn on their own accord. The Prishah matirs this.”
PBA -did the right thing. 1. The Prisha is a Daas Yochid.
2. There probably wasn’t a Mechiza, so it’s Taroovos.
dee1 – I don’t buy that mag, but there is research going on to develop a cure. From WebMD:
“Feb. 9, 2011 — Blocking an inflammatory protein called interleukin-15 (IL-15) may help treat the symptoms of celiac disease and prevent the development of celiac disease in certain at-risk people, according to new research in mice published in Nature.
Celiac disease is an autoimmune and inflammatory condition that is triggered by gluten, the protein found in wheat, barley, and rye. When people with celiac disease eat gluten, it triggers an inflammatory response that damages the lining of the small intestine. Symptoms include gas, bloating, cramping, and constipation. People with celiac disease are also at risk for nutritional shortfalls including vitamin B12, vitamin B1 (thiamine), vitamin K, vitamin D, calcium, iron, and folate. Risk factors for developing celiac disease include family history of celiac disease and/or a personal or family history of other autoimmune diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis (RA).
Gluten-free diets are the treatment of choice for celiac disease. Such foods are becoming increasingly available because of the dramatic uptick in rates of celiac disease and other conditions that may respond to gluten-free diets.
In the new study, researchers blocked IL-15 in mice genetically altered to have celiac disease and found that the disease symptoms were reversed, and the mice were once again able to eat gluten.
Is Blocking IL-15 the Key to Treating Celiac Disease?
Medications that block IL-15 are being developed for other inflammatory diseases, including RA. Etc.”
Mammele -“I am not his therapist, but I do have some common sense.
YOU can tell him what to do, i.e. seek therapy, which I’m not going to disagree with, if his opinion about himself is really so low — I’m not sure he’s not exaggerating it a bit.”
Telling s/o to go for help is Not the same thing as saying -Oh this idea will help you.
“I feel I’m allowed to add my two cents of something I think might be helpful with or without therapy.
He’s still free to do as he pleases. If he tries it and doesn’t gain enough from it, he can realize he’s in far too deep and seek therapy then. It was basically a suggestion which I doubt any therapist would disagree with or consider harmful.
I know you are very anti-meddling and believe in leaving everything for the real pros. Problem is many of us don’t seek it out for various reasons. If I was confident he’s planning on therapy I would have shut up. It didn’t seem that way to me.”
See this is your mistakes. First of all, why does e/o who sees something wrong in s/o else have to correct them?
Second, even if your Eitza is a good one -it can only have a Not good outcome. People only (usually) seek help when they hit rock bottom. So if your Eitza is partially effective, all it will do is delay or totally exclude him from seeking mental help. People who have so low self-esteem need professional help. It’s like putting a band-aid on a major wound. The wound needs professional intervention -covering it up – just helps you pretend it’s not something that needs attention! And yes, it made my job much harder. I once couldn’t understand why a guy’s finger wouldn’t stop bleeding -it was such a small wound. The answer came because he dumped a lot of liquid bandage on it. Products like New Skin are very effective for what they are made to do. They don’t stop bleeding. So all my pressure on the wound wasn’t working because there was this hard goop between the pressure and the bleeding site. So to stop the bleeding I had to put some anti-bleeding chemical on it.
Sometimes little things do more harm than good.
todahrabba -“I don’t know how this happened but my friend just went out with someone on a first date who kept her in the car for all 3 hours and he didn’t say a word. This should never happen. EVER….”
Welcome to Adulthood. Things do happen in life that aren’t always in our control.
First of all, I don’t understand what you’re angry about -it supposedly happened to your friend?
Second of all, if it happened to you, while I understand it’s some relief to come to a public forum and let off steam – the public isn’t who your anger should be directed at.
Why did the Shadchan set you up with such a guy? Where did you get the info from about him? Did your family and friends not do the proper research? I hope your coming here to let off steam is Not in place of asking these people these hard questions!
Mammele -“I’m going to take the liberty and ask you one BIG favor. Can you please write down privately (or at least think of) one wholly positive thing you did that day every night?
Your keeping your negativity to yourself is a nice gesture to all of us, but you have to make hishtadlus to actually be comfortable with yourself for your own sake.”
Who are you to ask him to do anything? He has a right to think negative about himself. Perhaps thinking bad about oneself is Not a good idea, but I already posted he should seek therapy.
You are Not his therapist!
Yenta -“Health, Thats Toms River, not Passaic. If you have a problem with the P/C water, don’t drink it.”
I posted it was TR, not Passaic, but it could be true in Passaic too. And my OP was – not to drink the water there -so why wouldn’t I practice what I preach?
Mods -My above post please.
It’s very long. It’s waiting for a mod with more patience. sorry.
Yenta -“brooklyn because you can’t drink the water from brooklyn secondary to the bugs you can’t see”
You can definitely see the bugs -if they were microscopic -it wouldn’t be Ossur to drink/eat.
“and second of all, if thats the reasoning, don’t drink the water in any part of the world because unfortunately young people get CA too.”
If the water quality is one of the suspected reasons, then you’re right. This happenned in Toms River, NJ. They think a CA cluster was due to the chemical plant contaminating local ground water.
“and when you were a bachur here i’m sure is a long time ago. things DO change over time. my family drinks the water, my neighbors drink the water. my friend who lives across town drinks the water. if the water is running brown b/c of water main work, then we don’t drink the water but on a normal day we drink the water (after running it for 30 seconds to clear the line)”
Wow -that’s such a scientific argument. My Mom does it, my Pop does it and my dog does it!
Get a water analysis from the water company and see what contaminants are close to or above the safe level. It’s probably one of the worst in Jersey. Lakewood actually has a good report.
iced -“According to the CDC, NYC has the cleanest tap water is the country, and is one of only three places in the U.S. that is exempt from filtering its water, since it is so pure.”
Unfortunately, their standards aren’t Halacha standards. It might be safe to eat crustaceans, but you’re Oiver a Lav -because it’s a whole living creature. So you’re not allowed to drink NY tap water.
The little I know – “Health: I have nothing but disgrace for molesters. I have worked to stop the defending of molesters and the bashing of victims. I agree with most of your comment, but you ruined it in the last line. You suggested that had the authorities been involved back then, the victim would have his closure and be over the trauma. This is a baseless comment. The victim continues to suffer the effects of trauma whether the perpetrator is free or behind bars. The reason to incarcerate has nothing to do with the victim’s psyche. I suggest you inquire of mental health clinicians who have experience in this area. It just ain’t true. There is a real reason to lock them up. To protect society. That’s it. Not revenge, not benefit for the victim, not rehabilitation. None of these work. Just protect the community from any further acts of abuse. Please get off this kick about closure. It sounds like you really care for victims, and that’s wonderful, but don’t fool yourself into believing that this has any therapeutic effect.”
I never said locking up the Perp gets the victim closure. What I am pretty sure about is these victims end up with PTSD. Having the perp punished and along with therapy -the victim can have closure. I hope you realize having a memory of something -doesn’t mean you can’t have closure.
If you’re saying you can never get over PTSD -then prove it!
Curiosity -“Health – there’s no need to turn every single discussion into an anti-Zionist crusade. It’s really getting old.”
You might be getting old, but the point isn’t. Ivrit is the language of the Tzionim, whether you admit it or not!
“Nonetheless your logic is severely flawed. According to what you are saying all of the Sfardi communities are also wrong in their pronounciations, and are incapable of understanding Torah. Your “hunch” is not just childish and baseless, it’s apikorsus.”
The only thing that’s Apikorsus is your post. Kol Hapoisel B’momo Poisel. If you would have Read my Whole post -I didn’t have a problem with their pronounciation -if they were the ones speaking. I said it’s ridiculous for an Askenazi to speak that way.
“You can take your psak that speaking Hebrew is ossur, and go get a haskamah from all non-Ashkenazic Rabbonim. If they give you their signature, I’ll be more than happy to follow your psak.”
More lies! I never said it was Ossur. See my post below. I said it’s preferable or a good idea Not to speak Ivrit!
Since you’re too lazy to look up the topic of “Enough with Yiddish already” – I quoted it here:
“Tomche
The Radak (Sefer HaMichlol, introduction) writes that Loshon HaKodesh is all but forgotten to us, and all we have left is what is in Tanach.
The Chasam Sofer notes that while Chazal used many words and phrases borrowed from the Greeks and Romans, they never coined a new word, as has been done in modern Hebrew, for in their holy opinion it was preferable to use other languages rather than create even a single new word that did not have its like, its example, in the Torah, since it could not be rooted in sanctity.
The Chasam Sofer EH 2:11 says that in ancient times Jews used to use a modified version of the non-Jewish languages for everyday (divrei chol) talk, similar to what Yiddish is.
The Chasam Sofer writes that the reason Jews do not speak Loshon Hakodesh as a speaking language is because it is inappropriate to use a holy language while enveloped in Tumah, which is our current status. The Rambam writes that a love song in Hebrew is more repulsive to Hashem than the same song in Arabic, for instance, because the pollution of the Holy language is an additional crime. If someone wants to store pornography in his house, thats bad enough. But to store it in the Aron HaKodesh is unspeakably worse. So to cause Loshon HaKodesh to be used as a street language, complete with all the disgusting ways it is used today in Israel, is just more of a reason why we should make sure it never gets into the streets. For our Creator to look down at the world and see His holy language – or even elements of it – used in magazines such as are sold in Kiosks on Yaffo or Dizengoff Street, or spoken by the lowest of the low trying to make a sale, is not something that he or we are happy about.
The Kuzari writes that Avrohom Avinu, therefore, spoke 2 different languages. One for holy speech – that was Loshon HaKodesh, and the other for mundane speech – that, the Kuzari says was some non-Jewish language that Avrohom Avinu took and changed around a little on his own. And thats the idea behind Yiddish. It is a non-Jewish language that we took and twisted a bit in order to make it exclusive among us.”
“Health – You’re basically saying like Sam that LK can exist in Ivrit, but you’re saying it’s Ossur to use it. I disagree; even if you say LK can exist nowadays in modern form -you can speak Ivrit. Because I hold Ivrit is Not LK and it’s a new language that was made up. (It’s not even a Jewish language.) They have a different pronuciation than LK amongst other reasons. If it would be LK because LK can be spoken in modern form -then speaking Ivrit would be Ossur.”
yentingyenta -“Health, and do pray tell why I can’t drink the tap water. obviously, my family did not get the memo that we had water imported from brklyn”
I just had a gut feeling that you would question me on this -I don’t know why.
First of all, what does Brooklyn have to do with this?
Second of all, I know s/o who died from CA there at a young age – <40 and it could have been from the drinking water.
When I was a Bochur there – they said – Not to drink the water.
The Wolf -“Why should I see a therapist. A therapist can help someone who is good who believes he’s evil. I, on the other hand, am hopelessly and irrevocably bad. I’ve been told by educators and others in positions of authority that there is nothing redeemable about me. Far be it from me to disagree with any of these gedolim. I’ve been told that even when I try to do right, I do wrong. I’m simply living up to the mandate that was imposed on me.”
I don’t know you -so I can’t judge you up whether you really are a bad guy. But let me take you at your word -that you are. Even so you should seek mental help because perhaps the reason that you are bad is because of a mental illness. So you might have OCD or a personality disorder such as Antisocial PD or Borderline PD (BPD), that is triggering your bad behavior.
If the therapist finds none of the above, then you can claim that there is No Refuah for your Maclah. I personally don’t believe that you really think so low of yourself, just you’re using the Rosho claim not to have to answer to anybody about your behavior.
Aries -Welcome back! I don’t think that I’ve posted to you in quite a few years.
Why IYHO do some Rabbonim protect Molesters? I was just reading on a different Frum site about a former Rebbe/Counselor that was arrested in Toronto for crimes close to 40 years ago. I think many people knew about it, but whomever decided not to tell the authorities back then, didn’t prevent the ultimate Chillul Hashem. Perhaps had they handed him over to the authorities back then -this perp by now and most probably even the victim would be over this horror and would have had closure a long time ago.
Wolf -“Forgive me for having the audacity of taking off a week or so from the boards. I was not aware that it was my personal obligation to read every thread every day and object to whatever it is you feel I should object to.
Yet another sign that I’m a disgusting, horrible person who should be shot by the community at first sight.”
Why would you make my comment about you? It was a general comment – not directed to anyone in particular.
If you’re trying to be funny/sarcastic with all your self-denigrating comments -it’s long past any drop of humor in your comments. Noone appreciates this kind of sarcasm.
If you truly are lacking in self-esteem to this degree, please see a therapist. A lot of people have low self-esteem, but you seem to be an extreme case. You might have a personality disorder, or another mental illness. I’m not really into mental health, just regular medicine – so please get evaluated by a mental health professional.
Curiosity -“RebRy – I say “closest” because there are innovations.
Chazal say the sole reason that Hebrew is considered Kadosh is because it has no words that are inherently vulgar. Modern day Hebrew dialect has to borrow from Arabic, Yiddish, and English to create dirty words. The language is still holy, because the words used by Israelis are just part of the evolving colloquial dialect (read: slang), not part of the actual (non-slang) language.”
I don’t know if you read all the topics in the CR, but we discussed about Ivrit & Yiddish in this topic:
“Enough with Yiddish already:
Please go read all the posts there!
But one post that I wrote there, I’m reposting here:
“Health -I did some research into these languages. Did you know they had this argument in Europe which language should be the Jewish language -Yiddish or Ivrit?
Let me tell you about this guy Ben -Yehuda -he just wasn’t a non-religious guy -he was Anti-religion. He started out as a Frum kid -became a Maskil -then a Zionist.
It seems he wanted a language that people in the street could speak, not just learned Chachomim. This I don’t understand -why can’t they speak LK? So I think he made a language to mock LK. That’s why he decided to put the Sefardi pronunciation to it -to make fun of it (LK). If my hunch is correct, it might be Ossur or definitely preferable Not to speak Ivrit. Some say people who know Ivrit before they learn Torah don’t get the proper meaning of what the Torah means because of the different meanings of Ivrit. When Teddy H. liked the English (British) idea of the Jewish homeland in Uganda, Ben-Yehuda was all for it. I guess this kind of proves he wanted nothing to do with Kedusha. So his language is No offshoot of Kedusha -it had to me mocking the holy language (LK).
Now back to Europe -the Zionists started pushing their Hebrew (Ivrit) there and a lot of Jews didn’t like it. A bunch of Non-Frum intellectual Jews got together in Vilna in the 20’s to counter act this. They started an org. called YIVO to push Yiddish as the Jewish language.
So I should be worse than a bunch of Freye Yidden who saw through what the Tzionim were doing with this Ivrit, and speak this ridiculous language?”
zahavasdad -“You are making an assumption that if you have 30 kids in a class who are paying and you add 1 non-payer it doesnt cost anything more to educate them. Unfortuantly thats not true, It does cost more to educate the non-payer.”
And your proof is? If they give lunch from the school and it’s not a subsidized Gov. lunch -then perhaps the lunch costs per kid.
So don’t give lunch to the kid who doesn’t pay.
You said utilities -there is no more lighting for 30 kids than for 29.
I’m just curious -where do live? If NY, what neighborhood?
And what Yeshiva/school did you go to?
I’m asking these because I can’t figure out where you picked up these Krumme Haskofos.
Instead of running away – tail between your legs, after being called out on your view for advocating throwing Jewish Neshamos in the trash, you have the Chutzpa & Haozah to keep defending your position!
And even more amazing – is the silence of so many posters -who seem to have opinions about everything – how come they haven’t called you out on this?
147 -“But an Asifa on having every Jew converse in Ivrith = Loshon haKodesh would do the Jewish people a tremendous service.”
LK is Not Ivrit! And there is nothing holy about the Ivrit language.
HaLeiVi -“An Asifa is not a discussion. You can not have a discussion with 20 people. You don’t need an Asifa to start an organization, either.”
You don’t need an Asifa to start an Org., but you need an Asifa for people to realize that there is a need for such an Org. That’s what Asifas are for when people have no clue there is a problem. And a lot of people don’t realize that some don’t have basic necessities.
If you move there -don’t drink the tap water!
zahavasdad -“the government does NOT pay utilities of Catholic Schools or other private schools.
HEAP is for individuals not Schools , the government doesnt care about schools or religious institutions
You can quote any psak din you want, Con Ed doesnt care . Psak Dins dont raise money
You can live in the real world , or live in a fantasy world”
You are so in your little dream world – it’s pathetic.
The fact that Yeshivos have these bills -so what? If the parents can’t truly afford to pay, how will removing the child(ren) from the Yeshiva help this situation? All it does is create more problems in Klal Yisroel. If it was to threaten parents who actually have money -then you might have a point, but there are many that really don’t.
“If you want to ask people to Give and try to raise the Tens of Millions needed, I am all for that, but it isnt going to work, You arent going to raise it.”
With people like you around maybe you can’t, but B’H in Klal Yisroel there are many people who do care about others.
All you need is one Askan (Aka. rich man) to start an Org. for tuition.
“And be Honest How many people would donate to a yeshiva whose Hashgafa they feel are “Anti-Torah” values (Whatever that means)
many MO schools are Mixed Gender, Would you Donate to those schools?
Many more Charedi Schools dont teach secular subjects, How many MO people find that abhorrent.”
I didn’t say the MO community should put Satmar on their mailing lists. But I think, as a last resort, if the Yeshiva has to close down, and it’s a possibility kids will end up in P.S., then e/o in Klal Yisroel should give and probably would, if they were approached!
zahavasdad -“Contrary to most, I do think yeshivas need to kick out kids who dont pay, While its cruel, What are they really supposed to do unless they can raise the shortfall.
maybe the Rebbes dont mind being paid occasionally, But what about Con Ed….They could care less about your situation, You dont pay they will turn off the electricity and the Heat”
Is this your Psak Din? If it is, you are Megaleh Ponim B’torah Shelo K’halacha – if you’re talking about people who can’t pay.
And you should have placed your post in the topic of – why Moshiach isn’t here yet!
And FYI, even the Goyim have Gov. & orgs. to help pay your utilities before they close them off. The Gov. has HEAP and I don’t recall the names of the private orgs.
And since there really isn’t a Frum org. dedicated to helping parents pay tuition – you’re advocating that Jews should be worse than Goyim!
“And for those who say the Gevirim should pay, Should a Satmar Gevir pay for a MO yeshiva who are firm belivers in Zionism or should a MO Gevir pay for a Satmar yeshiva who are Anti-Zionist etc.”
And why not? I hold that MO’s are Shoggeg when it comes to Israel, so why shouldn’t a rich person with my Shitta (similar to Satmar) stop a MO Yeshiva from closing? (Where kids will end up in Public School.)
I really hope that you’re from the few that has this Achzoriest (Mean) Shitta, because if you’re one from many – we are in for a very, very long Golus!
To all,
The whole premise that in the US – that parents have to pay Yeshiva’s tuition is wrong. In EY, most parents don’t pay anything. So since they think e/o has to pay tuition -they think they have the right to demand it. They mistreat poor people for no reason. And yes, there is such a thing as poor people – people who didn’t just finish their summer vacations.
They have set up a system contrary to Chazal. They make e/o pay one price, but even the US gov. has different tax brackets for different people. Obviously people don’t know why Chazal instituted Yeshivos; before that everybody just hired a Rebbe. And the reason is because the Yesomim & poor people couldn’t afford to hire themselves a Rebbe – so Chazal made it incumbent on the Tzibur. So for people in America to charge e/o tuition is wrong, but I doubt Chazal would have a problem if they made the rich people pay tuition, not just relying on donations of those who could afford it!
The little that I know -“I shared this daydream with a menahel, and he angrily told me that he would declare me an enemy of Yiddishkeit. He stated that the yeshiva needs the freedom to pressure the parents for tuition. (I have no idea why.)”
Simple – either he doesn’t have any real poor people in his school, a remote possibility, and he needs to pressure all the fakers; or more likely he doesn’t comprehend the idea of being really poor. I’ve found that a lot of Frum people, whether they are rich or middle-income, don’t really comprehend the Tzoros of a really poor person. They think that it’s like middle-income and at the end of the day, month, year, or whatever, they just don’t have anything left over. They can’t comprehend what it’s like not to have anything in the first place for basic necessities.
And taking Gov. programs doesn’t mean you are poor. It means you meet a certain guideline, but at the end of the day most aren’t really in the poor house. Some will be in the middle-income range and others will be in the upper-income range.