Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Western Europe is the most deep seated Antisemitism anywhere. Even Germany – it was only for a few short years. England alone has basically created the situation, with a little help from France, of the disaster what we now have in the Middle East. They alone decided to ignore the Balfour declartion of the League of Nations. They and a little bit France have created all these enemy Arab states that surround Israel today. Read from Time Immermorial to learn about the history. Why do the Jews love it there as opposed to anywhere else? Probably because of Gashmius. A lot probably have good businesses there, just like why Yidden in America love it here.
As far as Frumkeit, nowadays most of the world is Democratic, so you can be as Frum as you want almost anywhere in the world!
adams -“But it’s not just the spitters and the cursers, it’s the whole system that decides that they are the real Jews and everyone else is a heretic. Here in Monsey, children call someone a Jew with a knitted Yarmulka a goy. So where do they learn this from? It’s a distortion and hijacking of Judaism and is totally unJewish to act this way. And if you object to the spitters, and the violent demonstations, then you are guilty of Sinas Chinam, I am told that I hate all Chareidim.”
You Do have Sinas Chinum and Hate Charedim -read your own first line -“it’s the whole system that decides that they are the real Jews and everyone else is a heretic”.
We in the Charedi world don’t determine who is Frum by their Yarmulka, in spite of some kids who like to start up with others for kicks. These kids don’t represent our philosophy. They also call fat people -“Fatso”.
This is an argument only in your mind -looking for any excuse to hate!
Our only determination is – do they keep the Torah or not? Not dressing Tzinus is against the Torah!
“All this poster Health has done is to try make sure I will never feel comfortable amongst Chareidim again.”
I never had this intention, but the truth hurts, doesn’t it?
“But it won’t work because I know many fine Chareidim, but it is time for Chareidim to stop feeling so superior to other Jews particularly those not CHassidic or outward looking Chardie.”
We (most) don’t feel superior to those that don’t dress the same as us, only to the people who don’t keep this Halacha and that (And they should know better)!
“Oh it’s only a few sure. It’s many more than a few and these have the support of many.”
Here you go again with your Outright Hatred and Bias!
“Yes I am also very embarrassed by the publicity and worse I fear the repucussions in Shomayim to these violent Chareidi acts.”
Why do you care about the Goyishe publicity? Because it’s a Chillul Hashem? It’s also a Chillul Hashem to be Mechallel Shabbos in Public. It’s also a Chillul Hashem to walk around Not dressed Tzinusdik in Public. Does these actions even bother you? And you should fear the repercussions on these actions in Shomayim -more than you fear the repercussions of a few spitters!
tahini -“Health I understand your reasoning, but I do not feel Jewish guilt is anything to with it, it is a sense of belonging to Klal Yisrael and hurting when things go wrong due to our long tradtions of infighting, it is nothing new, just horrendous to watch under a media glare.
But for me Klal Yisrael are one people, when I see demonstrators harrassing children, or police arresting charedi protestors there is a division between head and heart, you see, Health, those whose behaviour I loathe ar still part of me and my people. Hence the embarrassment and awkwardness, a jew is a jew.”
I understand your point, but it is only valid if you feel embarrassed about the M.O.’s walking around Not -Tzinus.
For some reason I don’t think you care about this – maybe I’m wrong. So you should be embarrassed that people live in the Holy Land and don’t keep Tzinus, Kashrus, Shabbos, etc. After you feel embarrassed about all these things then you can be embarrassed about a girl who got spit on.
Sam2 -“Health: Yes, well that “whatever reason” can make a tremendous difference, can’t it? Or do you think that every “MO”, as you put it, is a Mumar Lehachis on the Issur Asei of Tznius? Oh, and before you call my understanding of Halacha ridiculous you might want to bring up a source to back up your assertion.”
Look I was saying that unless they are clueless (which makes them a Tinokes Sneshbu) then they might be Bchlal Amesecha. We went through this 100 times already. Even though I have a Diyuk from the Rambam that Tinuk Sneshbu isn’t part of Amesecha -I told MDD that I’m not sure. These people are Not T.S. -they know about Kashrus & Shabbos so they have no Din of T.S. So these people don’t have a Din Amesehca.
“Until you can prove that these women violate Tznius (I will admit that I am unsure about this, does being a Mumar to be Mevatel an Asei Lechachis even make you a Mumar L’chol Hatorah Kulah?) and that they do it Lehachis, you have no claim here.”
C’mon -what do you think I am – a two year old? Before I say a group isn’t Frum -I check it out. I found a video of this M.O. group online during one of their first demonstrations -by and far most women aren’t dressed Tzinyusdik, eg. No hair covering, T-shirts with short sleeves, etc. I’m not hear to teach you S’A but check out the S’A on Roay Bhama Daka and see the CC that says any Aveira time after time (And the Aveira doesn’t have to be L’hachas) takes you out of s/o you can’t speak L.H. on.
(Eg. -They aren’t Bechlal Amesecha and Bein Odom L’chaveiro doesn’t apply to them.)
“Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, because they keep Shabbos and Kashrus properly they also have a reason to consider what they are doing keeping Tznius properly?”
So why don’t they keep Tzinus? Unless you think it’s Ok to dress the way they do -hair showing, arms & legs showing, etc.?
Sam – Stop with your ridiculous understanding of Halacha. I just saw the S’A again recently.
If you want to say they don’t know better -this is ridiculous.
They know what they want to know. These MO know about Kashrus & Shabbos, etc. But they never heard about Tzinus? Yea, right!
They just don’t care about it for whatever reason.
mikehall -“I know there is a thread on it, but I’m referring more to a major news site carrying the story and making us look like fools….to the outside world a Jew is Jwe, they don’t see the difference.”
Now let me ask you a question -Why are you embarrassed or feel like a fool because of a few Jews’ actions in Bet Shemesh?
1. You don’t consider yourself to be from the same religion -you consider yourself MO and they think MO isn’t Frum. (Rightly so.)
So this isn’t it -so maybe —
2. You’re related to them. Perhaps these guys are your cousins, brothers, sisters, etc. This I highly doubt because then you would be too embarrassed to even talk about it.
So the only reason you could be embarrassed is because people might question you about them and you’re to weak and meek to answer them.
You could just say that me & them aren’t the same religion. I’m MO & they are Ultra-orthodox. Just like a conservative or reform Jew would answer.
Now what would I answer? Since me & them have the same religion.
I’d say like this – I’ve been in jails and I’ve met up with criminal’s families. Not only does e/o in jail think they are innocent -so does all their families.
Then I’d say what religion are you? And let’s say they said Xtian. I’d ask them -Do you feel guilty everytime a Xtian commits murder or any other crime?
And they say -“No, of course not.” Then I’d say what about the families of Xtian criminals -do they feel guilty or do they cry and scream that their innocent loved one is in jail (which they do)? They’d say – “I dunno”. I’d reply – “I do know and they don’t in the least bit. So why in the world should I care that some Orthodox Jew spit on some kid -I’m not even related to him &
Why in the world are you questioning me about his actions?”
If you are obssessed with Jewish guilt -then just use this guilt for everytime you yourself Does something wrong, not anybody else!
adams -“No one has any right to do that sorry. its a 2 way street. respect for all. If you see something that you don’t like, look away.”
They do look away, but this in their face. Right next door to their housing.
“So then, it would be ok for secular or non hassidic Israelis to curse and spit, at Hassidim who happen to walk in ‘their’ the non Hassidim neighborhoods? Who are offended at their dress?”
What kind of dream world are you leaving in? What you don’t think Freye start up with Frum Jews all the time? Just most Frum try to avoid them. Not only that they attack one another all the time. Did you ever hear of crime? So the whole Freye media decided Ya know there is no more murders, rapes, burglaries, drug pushing and every social problem that we have here in the US over there, so we have to report on the terrible crimes in the Frum neighborhoods.
Hear ye. Hear Ye. – S/o spat on a girl. S/o made a woman sit in the back of the bus.
This is classic Antisemitism and even the Leftist, Lib,
Pres. Peres admitted the incitement from the media!
Sam2 -“Health: I just watched a video with the girl in question. Her mother’s hair is covered.”
The picture that I was referring to was taken on her couch during some interview, not the video. Tons of hair is sticking out from her hat. Perhaps the back is a “fall”, but I clearly saw more than a Tefech of front hair!
Doswin -“old man: clearly not all Bet Shemesh residents agree with your claim.”
+10
Sam2 -“Health: If they have no intention of giving Mussar/Tochachah then how is the yelling Muttar? It should be Halbanas Pnei Chaveiro B’rabim.”
They don’t have a Din of “Chaveiro”.
Sam & MiddlePath –
And if you want to know the reason why -I posted above that s/o should start a topic about it. People will post why they scream. If they don’t I will explain it!
mamashtakah -“Then they should move to Bnei Brak, or Kiryat Sefer, or Mea Shearim. If it bothers them that much, let them build a wall around their neighborhood so they can’t see out. Or, let them put veils around their hats.”
Instead of blaming the Moderne for the situation -you blame the Chareidim. And what is your solution -they should move out or build a wall. This will cause considerable expense and inconvience, but who cares because the Freye & Moderne are right.
Might makes Right.
How about this solution? The fathers bring the girls to school or the mothers dress Tzinus for the few minutes every day of bringing and picking up the kids?
“Why should they? Living in E”Y is a mitzva dioraita. Maybe the chareidim who have the problem with the school should move back to their shtetles in Poland or Romania or where ever they came from.”
Well the MO “Frum” Jews can move to the West Bank with all the other MO’s that live there. Then they can dress the way they want and can help their buddies attack & burn Mosques. And when they aren’t busy doing that – they can infiltrate army bases and attack the soldiers there. And you MO’s call the Charedim violent because of s/o who spat?!?
“I guess we have a different view of things then. My parents taught me that throwing bricks and dirty diapers, screaming at people, and spitting on others, was not a nice thing to do. These things are certainly not what most normal people would call acting with restraint.”
Oh, and most of the Charedim do this, not just a very few!
“The school is not in “their” neighborhood.”
They are right next door.
The assumption that this is controversial is absurd. Why do we make dealing with goyim -something “controversial”?
No one taught you how to deal with neighbors? If you are friendly -you can acknowledge that friendship -if not, not!
MP -“Screaming at others is simply a lack of good middos.”
It depends on the situation. If you are screaming at them L’shem Shomayim, then there is nothing wrong. And they do tolerate the Moderne/Freye behavior as long as they don’t come in or near their neighborhood dressed however they feel like!
Can you imagine if I decided to burn a cross outside a church -do you think the Goyim would just spit and curse at me or do much worse? Most people here would condenm the cross burning and defend the Goyim, even if the guy was killed or beaten up.
These Jews act with much restraint, even though the Moderne start up with them everyday in their neighborhood.
There is a saying – when in Rome do as the Romans do!
Move your school -if you must bring your kids dressed in the manner that you do!
adams -“how is this flaunt in your face?”
They parade in Not-Tzinus dress next to where they live. This is called starting up, no matter how you twist it.
“Here you have shomer shabbos people who are dressed Tznius.”
A simple lie. They aren’t dressed Tzinus!!!
“As if there is not crimes of all types by the Chasssidim, or are you thinking they are all pure and holy ?”
Not all, but this line shines of your extreme Sinas Chinum!
“what Kedusha, the chassidim in Beis Shemesh have now defiled whatever Kedusha might have been there.”
The actions of a few spitting means that no Charedi lives in Kedusha anymore. Ok- whatever you say! As long as you call this logic!
“There are no laws that prevent Israelis from leaving, you are telling lies again or you are not informed. GO to any large city in any country in the world, you will see Israelis living there, many of them do return to Israel.”
This is an absolute falsehood. They give them such a hard time just to visit America, let alone permanetly leave. Go visit an Israeli Interior office and see for yourself.
“I happen to know many Chariedishe Israelis who are in America for Tzmitus.”
This is usually just Satmar types.
“as well as the general feeling in the Chareishi and Chassidesh world that the are ‘better’ than people who don’t dress like they do.”
It has nothing to do with better. They don’t like to see people Not listening to the Torah. If you want to do what you want – at least do it in a place which isn’t right next to them. How about Chaifa, Tel Aviv, NYC and the list goes on…?
zahavasdad -“I am not expert, But I know this one can NEVER give Mussur out of hate.
You are supposed to give it out of love”
They have no intention of giving Mussar!
We have a topic on this -we don’t need another one!
adams -“Do these Chassidim who spit and yell, do they honestly think that Hashem is happy with them?”
Well Hashem is happy with the screaming -I don’t agree with the spitting.
“Why this focus on Tznius on other people, is this a coverup of all the aveiros that occur in the Chassidic commnuties?”
Because these people flaunt it in their face. But your surmise is based on your hatred towards them.
“If they don’t like it there they should move to Brooklyn,”
This is the most hypocritical statement I’ve ever heard. Why don’t you look up the statistics of whom is trying to emigrate to America and whom is trying to make Aliya? By and far it’s the Freye whom want to get out and live here and it’s the Frumme who want to make Aliya. The only reason they still have millions of Non-religious in Israel is because the gov. makes all these laws that they can’t leave!
The Charedim want to live in E. Yisroel for Kedusha. They tolerate the Modern & Freye upto a point. And that point is having the Modern school next to their houses where they have to see Untzinus adults everyday.
If anything these Modern Jews who made Aliya should move back to wherever they came from!
realist4u -“The story said that the girl was WALKING to school, which is located 300 meters away, she was by herself,and if not then I didnt hear the story right,”
No where in the story does it say she was walking alone and you came to this conclusion because of your inner hatred towards them. Go watch the video from the TV station that started this story. They demonsrate the walk everyday from her house and her mother takes her.
“Are you a “buki” in hilchos mussar do you know when to give and when not to give, my assumtion, based on what you wrote by “screaming at her mother”, anyone who knows hows to give mussar EFFECTIVLY knows its not done through screaming.”
I’m not going re-educate you, but e/o knows they aren’t trying to Mekarev anyone or give Mussar. If you don’t know why they do it -maybe start a topic about it here in the CR.
“And no one said that the modern “justify” their actions because of how they are treated, what came first their actions or the spitting so I would venture to say its the chareidim justifying their actions by the dress of the “modern” if you will.”
Wrong, you just proved how you are full of Sinas Chinum you are by saying “chareidim justifying their actions by the dress of the “modern” if you will”, by saying Chareidim you imply ALL Chareidim, yet most have condemned the spitting or at the very least they don’t condone it. It you would have said a very few, then you would have a point, but you can’t admit the truth, can you?
realist4u -“I didnt read all the posts but, Health, reffering to what you said about the lady with uncovered hair,thats not the issue at hand.”
It most certainly is -this is the kid’s mother. And she takes her kid to school.
“The story was clearly about the little girl she got hurt for no reason there is no way to justify their actions period, ask a rav who is a poseik.”
No one was justifying the spitting and I made that pretty clear in my post. What I did say was the spitting doesn’t justify the Modern Jew’s behavior of flaunting the Not-Tzinus dress in front of their eyes!
“Secondly the real question is do these “Chassidim” who are “so” machmir on kol haTorah Kulah not realize that Chillul Hashem is far greater than the insignificant, and yes the things they are bothered by are meaningless, halachos of tznius, they need someone to remind them of this.”
This is where you prove you are a Kofir. Tzinus, such as covering your hair is meaningless by you. And while spitting at a little kid is a Chillul Hashem -screaming at her mother to dress Tzinus is a Mitzvah.
“Lastly it is important to realize not all Charreidim are like this just the few silly individuals.”
Are you saying it’s a few silly individuals whom spit or are you saying it’s a few silly individuals who care about Tzinus?
If it’s the latter, I would say if you want to consider yourself a Charedi then e/o cares about Tzinus, not just a silly few!
It’s the silly many in Israel and elsewhere who don’t care about Tzinus!
lemaysa – It’s easy for you to write it off as “just because they have diffrent veiws on hilchos tznius doesnt meananybody who doesnt hold like you is a shaygitz”. I don’t know the Dinim and I’m not a Poisek, but I can understand why these people would have a problem seeing these women everyday – their hair is showing.
So my point is -it’s a two way street. If you want to dress the way you want and I’m pretty sure that hair uncovered is Ossur, even if some is covered; then put your school somewhere else. You can’t have your cake and eat it. Everyday you’re sticking a needle in their eye. When you start up with s/o -eventually they will react. Are all people reacting like humans or not? It depends on the person -if the person always acts like a human, then they will react like a human. If the person acts a lot like an animal, then they will react like an animal. Hence the spitting. But just because the Charedim have animals amongst them -this in no way justifies the Modern Jews behavior. The Moderne always think they are more refined than the Charedi. Is it refined behavior to have your school next to their houses where they will inevitably see Not-Tzinus women, acc. to their Rabbonim?!?
Sam 2 – And you didn’t read my post above. I said that the Gra learns that Pshat in the Mechaber. Later on the Gra asks on the Mahrik. He actually doesn’t say what he holds himself, but it seems that he holds that if the purpose of the clothe was created for A’Z -it’s always Ossur, but if Stam Azoi then it would be Mutter.
adams – I disagree with “Frum” people spitting on others and it’s despicable. But, it takes Two to Tango. These modern Jews aren’t “Frum”. So even if you have the right to build a school wherever you want -do you think it’s Menchlich to build it next to a Frum neighborhood? This is called starting up.
The reason I’m calling them Not Frum is the same reason I’m calling the spitter -Not Frum. I’m actually suprised at all the comments here esp. when this story first broke. I actually believed them. The chariedim are screaming and rioting for no good reason, e/o said. But the truth is -we just have a lot of Anti-Charedim posting here.
Now even though the kids more or less are Tzinus -the women who bring them to school aren’t. All that I read over here was -of course the women dress Tzinus and I believed it. Well when this story broke all over the media -they have a picture of the girl and Mom. The mother is wearing some sort of beret but tons of long hair is hanging out. It looks too natural (all over the place) to be a wig. So if you stick your hand or foot out -it will be chopped off. (It’s possible the back is some sort of “fall”, but the front is a lot of her own hair showing out.)
Aries – Yes, they shouldn’t be doing it -if they can’t do it right. I forget the saying.
Anyways my point is – a lot of these members can’t stop from belonging to the org., that they belong to, even though they do a lousy job, because they are addicted to the Kovod!
Bar Shattya -Hey you got my topic closed down -you probably started up with a big Honcho.
emunah613 -“And in many cases, smokers do live for a very long time.”
And in many cases their time is cut short!
“Quality of life is what is changed for someone who smokes versus one who does not.”
How about explaining? Here is an example – Did you ever see a COPDer trying to take a few steps even with the O2 without huffing & puffing?
mdlevine -“So they do – so what?
if they do and you deliberately did not include the disclaimer – you cannot claim that the advice comes from Readers Digest – rather is came from your own “gemara” kup – but please don’t cite a source if you do are leaving out a critical step.”
You are so wrapped up with yourself -you don’t even realize what you posted. I never quoted the book – I made a suggestion how to handle the situation. After you brought down many sites that are afraid to recommend this advice – I posted my source -where I got the idea from.
“It still seems to me that every site says to not do the cut at home – rather leave it to the professionals. Only you – a sole voice says to do it yourself.”
Me and the book, except they added in a disclaimer.
“1) I don’t understand your answer to my very straight forward and simple question – In your medical pracitse – Do you or would you provide medical care (non-emergency) without knowing the medical history of the patient? If someone came to you with an ingrown toenail – without first getting a medical history would you send them home with a copy of readers digest? (a simple yes or no will do).”
Since I have a Gemorrah Kup – I’ll answer the question with a question. Do you think that podiatrists test all their patients before working on an ingrown nail to see if they have hidden diabetes? (A simple yes or no will do.)
“2) You seem like a smart person who really cares about others and wants to help people. you present yourself as a professional and a qualified dispenser of medical advice. All I am saying is it seems like you left out a step – why not rectify it by reposting with the (see the doctor disclaimer. this is not an attack – just comment and an observation.”
Simple because the guy (presumably) or gal decided not to take my advice and instead decided to destroy his liver with drugs and alcohol. Perhaps he didn’t consider it because of all the posters who attacked my advice.
For e/o else they got the message from our latest back and forth.
emunah613 – If my future wife has a nose ring -I’d want her to have the ones that bulls wear -ya know the big round ones. This way I can pull her around wherever I want to!
whatrutalkingabt -“Bar Shattya- You and pba are waaayyy to obsessed with skinny girls. I think it would be pretty funny if you marry a skinny girl and she gets fat after her first baby”
He wouldn’t have a problem if that occured because he could just have her take up smoking and that would help her lose weight!
mdlevine -“I did a few more searches on home remedies for ingrown toenails and they all say not to try cutting it out yourself at home. the other sites also said that folks with diabetes should not even try the soaking and ointments etc. without first consulting with a medical doctor”
You sound like you’re trying to Prove me wrong -any particular reason? I don’t have to go Bosur Rov (After the most opinions).
“from Discovery “TLC” which is not as far as I know a medical site (but it makes a whole lot of sense):
“If you have diabetes or any other condition that affects circulation, don’t even think of trying to treat a nail infection yourself. In people with poor circulation, any foot wound or infection takes longer to heal. If not properly treated, an injury could worsen quickly and cause other complications; at worst, it could result in amputation.”
without seeing the readers digest guide to medical cures and treatments I would be surprised if they don’t have a caveat in the book for those with diabetes and other circulatory problems.”
So they do – so what?
“question – would you at lease agree that it was probably not the best advice to tell someone a remedy without knowing their health history (even with the assumption that most people will not follow an anonymous poster on a non-medical blog) because it could lead to dire consequences (amputation)? I would also assume that if someone visited you in your office or clinic you would not send them home to do this without knowing their medical history (true???).”
You obviously don’t know the first thing about medicine or you are scared to not practice or allow anybody else not to practice anything but CYA medicine. I don’t practice CYA medicine, at least not here because I’m not giving a Prof. opinion here. I say what I think will help. And the reason I didn’t warn him/her is because I doubt he/she would fit into that category. I have a Gemmorah Kup and I can figure out things. I figured if the guy/gal was a diabetic or similar they wouldn’t be coming here with this question. Why? Because one of the first things they tell newly diagnosed diabetics is to make sure a Podiatrist cuts your toenails. So – 1. They usually don’t get ingrown toenails. and 2. If they do – they know to run right away to the podiatrist.
Even if there is a very minisule chance that I guessed wrong – I’m not going to get distracted by all the craziness that goes on in this country (eg. Sue happy folks) to prevent me from telling s/o what I feel is a decent solution to their medical problem! It’s not like I said to do a resection & destruction of the root -I said cut out the little bit that’s ingrown!
Ctrl Alt Del -“Btw, CMDT is not exactly a stellar medical text. If you DO own it, I would suggest you replace it with Harrison’s, or even The Washington Manual.”
What do Nurses know about med books? I don’t know what you have against the book, but by me the price was right. Too much detail in Harrison’s to do any good besides for reference. Most guys I know use either Uptodate or emedicine.com for daily use. And that’s enough med info I’m gonna give you.
MDlevine – Thanks for posting and admitting that you aren’t a medical prof.
You just proved that I’m not a “Doctor of cut & paste” like some posters have accused me of. (Not that I wanted to prove it because I have No ego, not like some posters.) But if you just do a cut & paste on this topic you will come out with the info you found. I, on the other hand and all med. prof. have learnt from lectures, medical books, Media, Online (Net) and many sources.
The info in this topic that I posted above comes from my vast collection of medical books. The name of the book is – “Guide to Medical Cures and Treatments” on the page of “Ingrown nails”. This book is meant for laymen -so the info is appropiate for home treatment. Don’t confuse this book with “Currents Medical Diagnosis & Treatments”, which I also own – which is meant for the Med. Prof.!
Ctrl Alt Del -“the truth is as a health care professional (which I think you are intimating that you are)”
Another rank out from the Ego man/lady!
“YOU need to get ON a high horse and have some higher scruples.”
So you admit you are a Baal(as) Gaava!?!
“If you feel that you are being called out too many times, maybe you should reevaluate your content and tone on this site.”
Only by you and Mod 72 regarding medicine.
“I have seen posts where you disparage whole healthcare fields”
Oh -Really? Where?
“and people (nursing and the.Nurse for one). One again, WE ARE NOT INFERIOR TO YOU, WE ARE YOUR EQUAL WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT! And dare I say some of us may actually be superior to you.”
So you admit you are a nurse and you think some Nurses are superior to people who practice medicine and you say I’m the one with Gall and Chutzpah?!? How about looking in the mirror?
“I’ve lost interest. This site makes me angry. I don’t think I should come here anymore.”
I for one won’t shed any tears for your departure!
yoya – What does this mean -yoya?
“e/o is entitled to their own opinion. There’s no need to look down on others who are just expressing their humble opinion.”
Your post should have been addressed to him, not me.
His opinions on this site usually has something to do with me -this is a long drawn out saga. Did you ever here of Shiva Devarim B’golim?
And his opinion is definitely NOT humble!
Sam 2- What you posted about the Gra -I didn’t find on that page.
I spent some time researching this and I’ll try to give a Short synopsis. The Gra explains the Mechaber is holding like the Sifri which is quoted by the Chocmas Odom.
The Rema brings a Mahrik that argues based on Reshonim.
The Gra argues about this idea from the Mahrik – that you need Pritzus along with the clothes being created for Avodah Zorah. He holds that if the purpose of the clothe was created for A’Z -it’s always Ossur, but if Stam Azoi then it would be Mutter.
The Nosai Keilim have problems with this Mahrik & knock down one Raya.
To conclude, when it comes to something like Nose-rings, the Gra would hold like the Mahrik that this wasn’t created for A’Z and would probably be Mutter.
But I believe the Chomas Odom is Paskening like the Mechaber that the Issur is copying the Goyim on everything, not just things created for A’Z. The question is Why? I think he didn’t want to Pasken like the Rema because of all the problems with the Mahrik.
So we probably have to follow the Chocmas Odom because he is Basroh. So it would come out that Nose-rings are Ossur from the Torah!
ARWSF – “but the docs never warn you about that.”
They warn about the most common side effects. If you pick up any book like “The Pill Book” which is made for consumers -you’ll see they mention the possibly of adverse effects when the drug is stopped.
While the info you found is correct (based on a study published in JAMA in Jan 2010) -Your conclusions are NOT. This is what happens when Non-medical personnel peruse all the stuff on the net. You have the right to not take any meds you don’t want to, but you have NO right to tell e/o to do the same based on some info you dug up. You have NO right to Diss all Practioners whom prescribe Meds in mild to moderate depression!
Your conclusion is not what the authors’ of the study (that you dug up) came out with, but you think you have the right to come to any conclusion you want to, even if the ones who did the study disagree!
From APA.org.:
“Are antidepressants the right treatment? Not necessarily, according to a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (Vol. 303, No. 1) in January.
Ctrl Alt Del -“Health, once again instead of addressing the problem you have chosen to make it about you.”
Wrong -there is no problem except in your puny mind. Most of your posts ever on this site was to call me out on something. I really feel bad for any patient(s) (if you really deal with any) that comes across your path. How about getting off your high horse?
Aries – What would appear to e/o as common sense, is not always that common. If you remember my posts about orgs. that are only there for Kovod and basically do a lousy job for the recipient -this is typical of their train of thought. This is why they have No guilty conscience in what they do -because they simply write off any criticism with -“Don’t complain -I’m doing you the favor -I’M a VOLUNTEER”!
More people should smoke -it’s good for business! 😉
Ctrl Alt Del -“Just to be clear, I don’t “have it in” for anyone.”
Well -I believe you are lying. Because if your Kavana here is to just warn e/o -go back and read all the posts and see you only warned e/o about me, but I wasn’t the only one posting med info. And if you would have read my post above -I said my posting med info isn’t to be considered professional advice. You seem to have a control issue (Gaava) -“I can be the only med prof. posting here (if you really are), noone else.”
BT guy -“All in all, you claim that prescription drugs are issued solely on medical decisions and there is no issue of over prescription of drugs in America for economic and financial reasons, AT THE SAME TIME you just supported the exact argument/reasons of those who claim there is a problem.”
You misconstrued my post either on purpose or by mistake. I don’t have the time in life to go back and forth with you. Whatever misconceptions you have, I’m sure you have had them for a long time. I’m not going to change them and am not that interested to.
What I want to clear up is why I’m not contradicting myself.
Yes, Doctors practice medicine to make money. Yes, Pharm companies make and sell drugs to make money. In spite of your conspiracy theories – one has nothing to do with the other. Doctors don’t make more or less $ depending how many drugs they give out. They charge for the visit, not for prescription drugs! And I really don’t know why you think they do. Yes, the more drugs Pharm companies sell -the more they make. Why should a doc want to push drugs on pts. if they don’t make money off how many drugs they prescribe? They have one goal to giving drugs and that is to help the pts., whether you believe it or not!
DaasYochid -“I always shut my phone off before performing bypass surgery.”
It’s just funny the laymen’s perception of Surgery. Actually, docs and others speak on the phone all the time during a surgery. We have less time to talk when we are other places. Ya -see during a surgery there is a lot of down time and others can take over for you most of the time, so Shmuzing of the wall phone or cell is quite common.
YW Moderator-72 -“yes according to health (and now you) he is the medical gadol hador – but truth be told: to real Doctors – what is he?”
This is my private info, which I don’t intend on sharing. I’ve given way too much info about myself on this site. And the only reason I did that was because I only found out that people here were gathering others’ info for nefarious purposes fairly recently.
_________________________________________
“Note to health: As I have said before – I have nothing against you and IRL you are probably a very nice person. your screen persona (as many have pointed out) comes across as a know-it-all, pompous individual who looks down on those who dare disagree or post against you. Many people feel uncomfortable with your posting style. try toning it down a bit and other posters will have less trouble with how you say things (they may still object to what you say – but that is life in the blogosphere). go ahead have the last word.”
I understand you have it in for me, but let me explain my point of view. When people come to YWN for medical advice -why do you think I post to them? I’ll tell you -I do it as a Chessed.
Since I haven’t proven it to anybody what my credentials are -let’s say you’re right (even though you’re not) that I just cut & paste -do you think I or anyone here would not cut & paste from a reliable site? I don’t even consider Wikipedia like the other poster quoted as being sufficient/reliable enough for medical advice.
Every time you come here screaming -warning the world not to rely on me, much more than anyone else because e/o here knows that info posted here is people’s opinion -what do you accomplish? Even though I’m a medical professional, I’m giving the advice here casually – it’s not considered professional advice as opposed if they saw me in a professional setting – in person.
So you screaming constantly only at me, not others, can only cause one thing to occur – that the posters won’t take my advice. This doesn’t bother me because I got my Mitzva whether they listen or not. But are you doing a disservice to them because they might not listen to proper medical advice, even if this advice is only – acc. to you from cut & paste?
Your psychological defense mechanisms will probably tell you that I’m just trying to manipulate you with this post, but try and take your Neigious out of it. There is no reason for me to post inaccurate info because I get nothing out of posting here -Not money or Kovod. So for me to Not make sure that my info is accurate would be doing a disservice to the posters and probably an Aveira. But like I said if you feel the need to constantly put me down and try to convince e/o not to listen to me, it’s fine by me because I still get the Mitzva of helping others!
P.S. – This post applies to Ctrl Alt Del as well!
popa_bar_abba -“They are also one body with 2 heads, and they are doing pretty well, 21 years old.”
Which head gets to eat the food or do they take turns? They can’t both eat at the same time because then the body would become extremely obese!
a mamin -I’m sorry to read your story, but this goes to prove my point that a lot of these problems are coming from the org., not mainly from the volunteers.
The reason you had problems with them was because you were burning up money. Some of these orgs. are only run for the sake of Kovod. Every org. in the world has only a limited amount of money, even if is a lot. The ones that are run for Kovod of the organizers and sometimes even the volunteers -like to use their money on things that gets them more Kovod. Of course they provide transportation, otherwise people would get suspicious of them and withhold their support. Unfortunately for you, they put very little $ into Real services for pts. and you used up your allotment!
BTGuy -“Doctors have valuable skills and education. But these days they lack chochma.”
If you think they all are stupid, you have the choice in this country not to use them.
“The variable behind the prescription of all these drugs is hugely economic.”
So what? When you go to your grocery store -does he sell you his products at cost? You’re living in some dream world! But they aren’t giving people drugs they don’t need!
“There is no way doctors are writing out the same scripts, so quickly, to such a large degree, not knowing what is going on with their colleagues and the pharmaceutical companies seeking profits.”
So they know it -so what?
“In a land where tobacco companies are allowed to sell their deadly poison, the pharmaceutical companies have free reign to put out whatever they want, charge what they want, and get away with what they want unless they settle out of court. The only reason they run tests, etc., is because they make money on those projects. TONS of money.”
One lie after another, except for they “charge what they want”.
But we aren’t living in Communist Russia -our system is capitalism.
“Are people being drugged too easily? Absolutely! Are children being thrown into the pit of this alleged ADD/ADHD too quickly? Absolutely!”
Proove it! Until you do – I’ll say Absolutely NOT!
“Hopefully no one needs such a thing, but hospitals send people home based solely on economic reasons rather than medical.”
That’s because hospitals are a business.
“Well, it is similar with doctors who are prone to find a pill for each person’s ailment; the reason is economics (profit).”
What does one have to do with another? In spite of your conspiracy theory, Docs get No ($) kickbacks from Pharm companies! The reason they prescribe drugs is because this is called practicing medicine!
After reading your comical post, I think you got the Yom Tovim mixed up. It’s Channuka, not Purim!
Aries – +10
Sam 2- Where is this Gra? And what does the Gra have to do with ties?
HaLeiVi -“Why shouldn’t you listen to Health? He’s a surgeon, I believe.”
Not a Surgeon, but no more about me.
Ctrl Alt Del & Mod 72 have it in for me from way back. I don’t know why, but they do.
HaLeiVi- “Health, OK. So I cut straight down, but I get a phone call. Do I have to re-scrub?”
Funny! Noone scrubs in unless you’re doing a major procedure on it -like Ctrl Alt Del said. The only thing he fails to tell you (besides about me) is they only do it this way as the last resort. Most of the time they do it my way.
Ditto; Why what?