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Avram in MD -“are at a loss about how to do more.
I want to develop a family fire plan and practice it through routine family fire drills, but in a real fire, conditions and actions needed to escape could vary widely based on where the fire is, what started it, etc. How do I obtain the knowledge necessary to put together the best possible fire plan based on this complexity”
That’s why I said it needs to be done on a personal level. I used to teach Fire & Safety including CPR courses. Btw, what do you do if your smoke detector went off at 3 am???
People should lower their expectations. This would solve a lot of the problem(s).
Besides Davening, they should move him to Tel-Hashomer hospital.
yekke2 -“So what do you recommend? Just posting on the CR fits under the same category of the speeches and events you mentioned above. What do you think could be done to help the singles, and how do you think it should be done? What is possible to do which isn’t being done already?”
I have a suggestion – make a public event on Loshon Horah, better yet on Mozay Shem Ra, like they did on the Internet. My marriage was destroyed & I can’t get a Shidduch because of LH & MSR! And don’t say e/o knows it’s Osser. True, but they don’t know or want to know the actual Halachos.
ZD -“remind people that while we must realize hashem controls everything, we must also do whatever it is in our power to help ourselves and then ask Hashem for help. ie check your batteries on a working smoke dector and …”
Are we really helping ourselves? E/O is offering Fire Safety courses. If it’s not done on a personal level, it’s only for show! Why do we – when something like this happens, put on a show? We should make real change, not just superficial change.
DY -“I’m not claiming to know what there is to learn; each one of us should be ????? ??????.”
You’re right, but you’re wrong. There’s nothing wrong with pointing out something that almost e/o does wrong. There are at least 7 articles about accidents & safety on YWN front page. So there is a big problem in the Frum community, whether some are in denial or not!
(I posted this before) Unfortunately, that isn’t the way to learn (about health & safety). I’ve given CPR courses and done CPR on pts.
From the Journal of Advanced Nursing –
“The findings of the research reflect similar results to previous research undertaken and discussed in the literature review, suggesting that retention of skills and knowledge quickly deteriorates if not used or updated regularly. Therefore this research supports the importance of CPR refresher courses on a regular basis.”
So if nurses have trouble with retention, for sure laymen will!
So you’re right – “each one of us should be ????? ??????”. One of those ????? is V’nishmarten Meod etc.
Unfortunately, that isn’t the way to learn. I’ve given CPR courses and done CPR on pts.
From the Journal of Advanced Nursing –
“The findings of the research reflect similar results to previous research undertaken and discussed in the literature review, suggesting that retention of skills and knowledge quickly deteriorates if not used or updated regularly. Therefore this research supports the importance of CPR refresher courses on a regular basis.”
So if nurses have trouble with retention, for sure laymen will!
OTOH, you can ask specific questions & I’ll try to answer them.
I advertised in Lakewood 20 years ago for a fire safety course. No one was interested. Fire safety is more than just smoke detectors!
ubiquitin-“Thanks dearest Health, your last point cracked me up while at the same time providing examples of your dishonesty and evading questions. So yes if that isnt outright saying that agreements last forever it is certainly implying such”
Your manipulation and dishonesty knows No bounds! I said the Constitution & the “Status Quo” lasts forever. You wrote that I said “agreements last forever” which implies ALL Agreements!
“Please note that like most of my points pointing out how flawed your “logic” is, you simply ignored it while repeating it as if you were addressing it”
The only one’s who are illogical and dishonest are you & the “Religious Zionists”!
ubiquitin -“Health more dishonesty. I did explain to you why you’re idea that agreements last forever is absurd, you have yet to respond to that”
Your misinterpretation is because you’re trying to manipulate the readers here. I never said “agreements last forever”! Somehow you think that I implied that.
“Now you are shifting gears again, but of course I will patiently explain to you how wrong you still are.
That was not your point!
Let me bring you up to speed since you are having trouble following your own train of thought (again)”
More nonsense!
“b. If the draft gets revoked and R’ S Aurbach supports voting in the next election would that be him changing his mind regarding Zionsim and now viewing the Brisker Rav as wrong?”
Stop with your manipulation to promote Zionism!
ubiquitin -“Health
As explained to u it isnt truth. You are dishonest.”
“Religious Zionists” (Oxymoron) which includes you, are the only ones who are dishonest!
“Nope I’m not one of his followers, never was. It is no different than the Satmar’ Rav Shita. I didnt feel guilty then I dont feel guilty now”
That was my whole point! A lot of people are starting to see that the Brisker Rov was right about Zionism & Zionists.
ubiquitin -“Health
guilty? over what?”
Over the fact that even R’ S. Auerbach was angry at the last gov.!
“As I recall youve argued regarding vaccines too. You’e tried very hard to say others are wrong. WHY?
Is it because you’re feeling guilty??!?
I doubt it.”
Simply because readers will try to emulate the Anti-vax group!
“However your comment:
“The Herzl Zionists agreed that Frum people don’t have to go to the army. Nowadays – the “Religious Zionists” which Biyet Hayehudi (NRP – Mizrachi) is part of the gov., passed the law forcing e/o to be drafted!”
Was so absurd for several different reasons as outlined previously, that it is not something about which reasonable people can disagree. So before completely writing you off as unreasonable, I shall point out over and over how foolsih your original statement was.”
The Truth hurts – doesn’t it? The Herzl Zionists were better than nowadays Zionists [- the “Religious Zionists” which are Biyet Hayehudi (NRP – Mizrachi)]!
ubiquitin – You’re the one who’s dishonest & trying to manipulate e/o! Even though he didn’t say not to vote until the very last minute, most people knew what he held without that. You’re trying very hard to say I’m wrong. WHY?
Is it because you’re feeling guilty??!?
ubiquitin -“does not say he said not to vote for Gimmel.
Of course they oppose the draft. This isnt what we are discussing.”
Your dreaming again! From YWN news:
ubiquitin -“Health, each of your posts are more dishonest and of topic than the previous one. congrats!
Care to elaborate for once?”
If I elaborate, will you stop trying to manipulate e/o with your Zionist Shittas?
“Why don’t you ask R’ S. Auerbach? He’s a member of Degel, but he says you can’t now vote”
“source please, I suspect you made that up”
“Gimmel because the Israeli gov. renegaded on their agreement on drafting Yeshiva Bochrim!”
“source please, I suspect you made that up”
From YWN NEWS:
“Yahadut Hatorah Trying to Get Back Some of the Lost Voters (11 opinions)
[VIDEO IN EXTENDED ARTICLE] Facing a boycott at the polls from the Yerushalmi faction”
WHY? Because they supported the last gov., which voted in a law to draft Yeshiva Bochrim!
kj chusid -“I can confirm what ubiqitin said in his last post”
Did you even read my posts? I was talking about the Medina, not anything I ever posted.
ubiquitin -“Lol health, youve rebutted nothing.
Youve made falsdraftinglaims and backed them up with dishonest rambling. That doesnt coaunt as a rebuttal.”
You keep on with your total nonsense!
“As mentuioned before Agreements dont last forever especially when governments are involved. (read the Senator’s leter to Iran for a modern day example)So sorry to have to burst your uninformed bubble (again).”
Why don’t you ask R’ S. Auerbach? He’s a member of Degel, but he says you can’t now vote
Gimmel because the Israeli gov. renegaded on their agreement on drafting Yeshiva Bochrim!
I hold like Brisk & Satmar, but even the Agudah people are starting to wake up!
ubiquitin -“Health youve said that already.
Ive pointed out why that claim is absurd for at least 3 reasons”
And I rebutted them! Don’t you read?
Here they are again:
“The Herzl Zionists compromised that frum don’t need to go to the army based on realities at the time. Times change.”
They made an agreement. Who says they wouldn’t abide by the agreement, even though it’s 2015?”
” “Are you saying Ben Gurion liked the idea of Long term learning for all then ? “
No.
“Are you saying he would still support it now?”
He didn’t support it then, but he made an agreement.”
“What on Earth are you talking about?”
“Herzl’s followers would Not renegade on their agreement, like the “so-called” -“Religious Zionists”!”
ubiquitin -“Health, sadly as usual your post isnt accurate.
For arguments sake, the draft could be wrong halachicly, even Yharog Veal yaavor and your first post regarding the dishonety of NRP vs original zionists is still absurd”
No, the original zionists kept their words, not like the “Bayet (Non-) Yehudi!
Mammele-“Okay Health, so is everyone becoming Satmar and Brisk now? No more election politics? Cause now all the Gedolim will for sure be anti-Israel and against being in the Knesset….”
You’re Mistake; the Gedolim were Never Pro- Israel.
ubiquitin -“Health you are not telling the truth.
you now say “I claimed that you can’t call yourself religious – if you make laws that most religious Jews oppose!”
This is NOT what you claimed, nor is it what we have been discussing.
We have been discussing this silliness: “You said the religous zionists were more dishonest than the founders of the State because the religious Zionists went against an earlier agreement”
As idenitfied in the last post. Which you said was “True!”
As to who says the agreement was made forever, you said “me and most Charedim” Well we have already identified that you are not an honest individual, and I have never heard anybody else claim the agreememtn was made forver. As asked before (and ignored) do you have a source to this end, or is this more of your dishonesty?”
Again -“The Herzl Zionists agreed that Frum people don’t have to go to the army. Nowadays – the “Religious Zionists” which Biyet Hayehudi (NRP – Mizrachi) is part of the gov., passed the law forcing e/o to be drafted!”
Why do you keep repeating the same nonsense? You simply don’t understand that the Gedolim Only agreed to the Medina if the Frumme can’t be drafted! The Laws of the Torah never change, even if time does!
ubiquitin -“i didnt follow your response to my first point.
I’ll bring you up to speed since I think you may have gotten lost:
You said the religous zionists were more dishonest than the founders of the State because the religious Zionists went against an earlier agreement”
TRUE!
“After that you lost me.”
So what???
“As to your other points:
a. Says who?”
Says me and most Charedim!
“b. Even agreements made forever can be changed in ways. See The U.S constitution, for example.
instead of replying to my next point you said “You’re playing lawyer again! The agreement is valid because they wrote the law that way –
exempting Charadim.”
a. Of course I’m playing lawyer, Arent we discussing a law?”
I never claimed the present gov. is breaking the law. I claimed that you can’t call yourself religious – if you make laws that most religious Jews oppose!
ubiquitin -“Lol Health, I think you made up that definition. source?
Here is what Webster’s say
” Amend:
to change some of the words and often the meaning of (a law, document, etc.)
: to change and improve (something, such as a mistake or bad situation)”
I know what MW (Webster’s) says because My definition comes from there under synonyms. Look it up!
“Both of these can easily apply to any “Agreement” you say was made. Even if you believe it
WAS binding and enforceable, which obviously it was neither, who knows the terms? What if I
6said it was made for one generation, there is no way to disprove my made up contention which is why verbal agreements are worthless.”
The terms were forever, even though it wasn’t enforceable!
“As an aside, easy on the Am haratzos, with out a kinyan a verbal agreement is halachicly
worthless and unenforcable. Of course there is an inyan of Lo yachel divaro, but a. Ben Gurion is dead, there is no reason to uphold HIS divaro. and b. I dont think he cares.”
You’re playing lawyer again! The agreement is valid because they wrote the law that way –
exempting Charadim.
“Oh as to your third silly point that early Zionists were honest, Peres is still alive and he supports the draft too!”
I didn’t say early Zionists were Tzadikim. In previous generations people were generally honest. They kept their word. When it’s PC to force e/o to go to the IDF, Peres joins the crowd!
ubiquitin -“Agreements not in writing are worthless.”
Not at all true. This is both acc. to Torah & the law!
“I do not know the difference between ammend and change. Please enligten me.”
ubiquitin-“ROB”
I told you my name is Rav Health.
“You are making less and less sense.
A. The U.S. constitution is in writing”
So agreements Not in writing can be broken???!!
“B. It has been amendended 27 times to date! Sure it cant just be changed wily nily, there is a legislative process. But just becasue an “agreement” was made 200 years ago or even 60 years ago. Does not make it binding for all enternity. As relaities change things change”
It can’t be changed, just amended. Do you know the difference?
“C. “Previous generations were honest, no matter what their religious belief was!” So kidnapping yaldei Teiman was honest?”
It’s amazing! You’re comparing something that the Jewish agency did back then, to the whole government of Israel. Nowadays, especially with the growth of the Frum population, it should be better for Frumkeit, NOT worse!
GAW -“In writing? what kind of agreement do you think was made? You think it lasts forever no matter what changes? You have a childish/imaginative view of history”
Do you think that the US Constitution lasts forever? The agreement from the founding leaders in Israel, called the “status-quo” is like the Constitution!
“Lol! if you beleive that you are a bigger zionist than I am”
This has nothing to do with Zionism. Previous generations were honest, no matter what their religious belief was!
OOmis -“Does anyone believe it is not a mitzvah to defend Am Yisroel and EY today, as well?”
Why should it be a Mitzvah? Let them leave Israel to the Arabs!
BarryLS1 -“rabbiofberlin:” I’m Rav Health.
“The Chazon Ish said that we needed two generations of exclusive Torah learning to rebuild Torah after WWII. That has long ended and B”H it was successful. Now it’s time to get back to normal.”
Israel isn’t Normal, & never will be.
“Many Chareidim want to be able to support their families. Not everyone is sitting and learning, nor can they. Poverty is being forced on them by their leadership. While it was foolish to force the issue, especially since it backfired, Chareidim, in increasing numbers, were joining the IDF or doing Sheirut Leumi.”
The reason that there aren’t more Chareidim working is because the gov. forces them to go to the army first!
“You have to understand Israeli politics. The last government was held together by a thread. That gave Lapid lots of power. At the same time, Bennett countered him in every way possible and minimized the damage. There were even articles in the Chareidi press that Chareidi politicians weren’t too upset by the bill despite their yelling, because they knew that it really had no teeth and could have been far worse.”
You make it seem that Bennett is a Tzaddik, but the first thing he did was make a deal with Lapid.
“Those bochrim that were arrested for a short time, weren’t being drafted. They only had to report for a rating, as they always had, but were told not too go. That forced the government’s hand to take action.”
If you take $ from the gov., then this is expected.
“It’s not just an issue of the IDF, it’s about getting out of poverty. The demand for more and more welfare, by an already overburden public, among other issues, created a backlash that created Lapid.”
All they have to do is let people work without prior army service.
“There are better ways of doing things than a constant heavy handed approach to everything, without changing anyone’s hashkofo. Just being more diplomatic. It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it and if it’s not a halachic issue, compromise once in a while and have an understanding of other people’s needs too.”
But it is an Halachic issue; which obviously you & others can’t understand!
GAW -“ROB”
I’m Rav Health – Not ROB!
“Was your comment supposed to make sense? With Purim so close its hard to tell.
The Herzl Zionists compromised that frum don’t need to go to the army based on realities at the time. Times change.”
They made an agreement. Who says they wouldn’t abide by the agreement, even though it’s 2015?
” Are you saying Ben Gurion liked the idea of Long term learning for all then ? “
No.
“Are you saying he would still support it now?”
He didn’t support it then, but he made an agreement.
“What on Earth are you talking about?”
Herzl’s followers would Not renegade on their agreement, like the “so-called” -“Religious Zionists”!
BarryLS1 -“Golfer: For many of the secularists, especially the Leftists, this is the “Post Zionist” era. The real Zionists today are the religious Zionists, not the Herzl zionists”
I’m Rav Health –
I hate to throw a monkey wrench into your post (Not really), but who are you calling Religious?? The Herzl Zionists agreed that Frum people don’t have to go to the army. Nowadays – the “Religious Zionists” which Biyet Hayehudi (NRP – Mizrachi) is part of the gov., passed the law forcing e/o to be drafted!
147-“I have changed my mind and am now anti zionist”
You don’t have to be “anti”, just you don’t have to proselytize for them!
Here or anywhere.
And you’re switched with Putter Avel Osser!
It’s not hacking. It’s Purim Shtick!
-Health
richashu -“The same types of people who live in america should also not vote, so as not to show support to a anti-Jewish, anti-Torah and unethical liberal democratic politicians, yet they do.
Vus epes?”
I agree! I don’t vote here and you shouldn’t vote in EY.
Mods- Very funny! Purim Shtick??
PAA-“Therefore, it weakens your case that it is categorically assur.”
No it doesn’t! Anymore than if s/o Paskins like Bais Shammy over Bais Hillel. Or the Mechaber over the Rema!
“I never said we should. I said that it’s a machlokes and therefore not as pashut as you made it out yo be.”
It is so Pashut; as I just explained!
Patur Aval Assur -“A definitive statement was issued that it is categorically assur for a woman to not get married.”
True!
“I pointed out that this issur is not mentioned by the Tur nor by the Mechaber, and the Rambam and Rema who do mention it, don’t use the lashon of “assur”. Furthermore the Rambam seems to contradict himself.”
So therefore?
“Of the several proposed resolutions, some of them assume that women are categorically obligated to get married.”
This is also true.
“However, the Ba’er Heitev’s explanation is that it’s an eitza tova,”
Why should we Pasken like him???
“and according to others there are ways of mitigating the issue of chashad (e.g. living at home).”
Source(s), please!
“If you think we pasken that there is a categorical obligation for a woman to get married then by all means document it.”
I do & I did above & also in the topic that I started:
“Who wants to be a Tzadaikes like Rus?”!
PAA- Yah see- if you were just talking to me, I wouldn’t have responded, but this is a public forum. People here will think that we Paskin like the Baer Haytiv. And most likely we don’t! What was your purpose in quoting him?
PAA-“Health: I don’t see anything in what you wrote that addresses any of my points.”
These points:
What took so long to post your response?
“The ??? ???? quotes an answer that min hadin a woman does not have to get married at all and “??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????” is an eitzah tovah.
So to conclude, there are definitely grounds to argue that a woman is not obligated to get married. But Health explicitly stated that there is an obligation, so this post is primarily a response to him, pointing out that it’s not so pashut.
Even if there is no obligation for her to get married, she”
G.G. -“Yes because Michael Savage is a conservative, and the jewish supreme justices are democrats.”
Let me get this straight, you feel every Jewish conservative must follow exactly the Torah, but Not liberals! Therefore you’re calling him out. And you feel that Weiner has more influence than Supreme Justices. If your premise is true, maybe he should run for President!
G.G.-“Yes, I used to listen to him, but still Michael Savage is the #1 syndicated conservative talk radio host in the country.”
So in your mind he’s more influential than the Jewish supreme justices!
The fact is the more people that touch the baby, the more chance there is in spreading an infection. Is there a law that anybody who touches a baby, including health personnel have to sign a wavier?
G.G. -“Because Michael Savage is a famous talk radio host.”
So you elevated him either because you listen to him & you generally like his viewpoint or because he’s famous?! I got news for you, they’re more famous Jews than him – like the ones that are on the Supreme Court!
GG -I’m not interested in it personally, but if u feel it’s important to discuss – then post his view’s. I don’t see how his view is different than any other Frei Yid.
First state his views; then e/o can discuss them.
Either go to findlaw.com or law.cornell.edu (they have cases online /@ no cost to you).
The question I have is that is why all of a sudden the gov. of NJ & NY are worried about the weather? All they had to do is wait and see. If it kept snowing, past 10 inches, then close the States.
Rema711 -“the orthodox teacher is orthodox, she is a Judaic teacher there, she had to help hold up the torah to let the kids touch it (FYI she did use plastic latex gloves when she was holding up the torah) because if she didn’t the school would have fired her, the school already doesn’t like because she is orthodox and will try to fire her for any small thing she does not do that they ask her to do, they already wanted to fired her cause she had a neck surgery and had to have a very long leave of absences, so if she didn’t do this it would have been the last straw”
I’m not a Poisik, but it sounds like a Bezoin Hatorah, even if she wears gloves. You can’t do Aveirahs, even if you’ll be fired!
Rema711 -“an orthodox teacher”
He’s Not Orthodox! He doesn’t keep Halacha.
“when an orthodox Jew heard what he did he tried balling him out,”
Not the way to give Mussar.
“but the conservative rabbi claimed he did nothing wrong,”
He’s right! He’s a Tinnuk Shenishba.
The prob you have is that you don’t know whose Really Frum & who isn’t!