oomis

“I have to agree with oomis on this one. “

Whoa! Let’s not get carried away! 🙂

You never know, Squeak. There was a time when I would never ever have believed that mainstream young adults would allow a third party to actually ARRANGE the date, that the boy would not have the social skills or desire to actually call the girl himself, speak to her for a while, and ask her out. And I personally have never made a shidduch for someone with the expectation of being compensated for my efforts. My “compensation” was the simcha of being invited to a wedding that I had a hand in. If no one would make such a shidduch w/o being compensated early on then “no one” comes from a very different mindset than the one with which I was brought up.

“The other option is as I have done in the past is say, “Well then get a good night’s rest and set your alarm clock extra early so you can do it in the morning. Next time don’t wait till the last minute.”

Good advice, Aries. My daughter often does that when she has through no fault of her own, been up late doing her work and is exhausted. I will “make” her stop and get up early in the morning to finish the work. There is no point to working with half-closed eyes – who could focus, anyway?

bombM – I personally would not object, as long as it is done in a menschlech, quiet manner, not with someone barking at me, “EMPTY YOUR POCKETS!!!!” You forget, a Yeshivah cannot be compared to an illegal search and seizure by cope, because in America, a cop must have a search warrant which has been executed properly for CAUSE, because there is a Bill of Rights. The B of R do NOT apply to a private school, as there is strict separation of church and State to circumvent that. A school is not a democracy, and the principal has to run the school according to school policy. If he oversteps his bounds, the parent body can respond to that as a group, if they desire, take their kids out of the school, or abide by the rules.

Unless a principal is a total control freak, no one would start making boys empty their pockets without a good reason. I sued the term” nefarious” btw, because it is just a cool word. I love it! I was toying with “evil” or “reasons of malfeasance”, or “sinister,” but nefarious was perfect. let’s get real. We know what kids would be doing all day if they could. My son is a GREAT young man, responsible, voluntarily works with both elderly patients with dementia, and with children of developmental delays or with life-threatening conditions, but when he is home late at night when he is not learning with his chavrusa, he is on that cellphone, texting constantly, even in the middle of a verbal converation with someone else. It is annoying, addicting, and unnecessary. This generation is becoming the one that no longer knows how to have a real and complete conversation. But they no hw 2 spl gr8. TTYL.

AZ, when some people pay nothing, they get a LOT of freebies. Sometimes they pay nothing ebcause they can AFFORD nothing. Does that mean they are not worth someone’s time and effort to help them? Anyone who calls himself or herself a shadchan, should know that if you want to call yourself a “doctor” (who at least HAS the training and degree), you often have the difficult cases, as well as the easy ones. Going above and beyond is called for in any vocation or avocation. Being a shadchan, by its definition, is that you are making a partnership between two people. SOme partnerships require very little intervention and go very smoothly. Some require a great deal more time spent on setting up the “deal.” The only time I would agree that it is more than what is “coming to” the boy or girl, is when that boy or girl is an obnoxious and arrogant, ill-mannered cretin. Otherwise, they all deserve respect, sensitivity, and attention (big bucks or not), or one should not call oneself a shadchan.

I am not against the random pocket searches, if they are warranted (i.e., the students are not compliant, and show they are untrustworthy). If the principal has cause, he is the final authority in the school. If it were rumored that there were drugs being used in school, would you be against random searches of the boys’ pockets and lockers, or bookbags, just because it was only a “few” guilty parties? I am not in favor of arbitrary searches, just for their own sake, when there is no reason to suspect there is a problem . But if it is already being done, then clearly there was a reason for it. Rules are in place for a reason. There are lots of rules we have to follow on the real adult world, and the sooner these kids learn that life lesson, the better off they will be. There will be lots of stuff that they perceive to be unfair, coming their way. The fact is, if they have nothing to hide, they will not have a problem. I do think the principal should handle it tactfully however, and not in an autocratic manner.

BTW, bomb, I am NOT against cellphones, I am against their use during school hours. And since I am against their use during school hours, I see no purpose in students having them on their persons at that time. They can only be used for nefarious purposes during class or during a test, so I see absolutely no reason why they SHOULD be permitted. Somehow, the baby boomers among us managed to get through four years of High School without a cell phone, and we were none the worse for wear. Kids today believe they will DIE without their text messaging, and you know what — this generation has produced a group of kids who are rudely on their cells WAY too much, even when they are ostensibly on a date, or even just having a conversation with someone who is standing in front of them.

Why, westcoast? Do you think there are no normal guys who are 23-25?

I’m with Shindy on this one.

I know girls who went to DB and they LOVED it. They are very lovely, temimusdig girls, serious about Limudei Kodesh, and with incredible middos. DB is a fine seminary.

Kollelboy, I am sure your intentions are pure, but I strongly believe you are mistaken. Kids waste money all the time, and they could not care less about it costing too much to use the intenet on the phone. Most of them have a cell plan that includes texting, anyway.

Kids use their phones to CHEAT during tests, by texting answers to each other (this has been demonstrated to be fact), and if you think that frum kids would never do that, then I have a lovely bridge I would be interested in selling you. There is absolutely no reason why kids should have cell phones available to them during school hours (recess or lunch period being the exception with which I would be comfortable). If they are NOT going to use them during class, then there is no reason for them to be on their person. If they would need them for an emergency, they could get their phones from the rebbie right away. Having to sumbit to random pocket checks, ensures that they have nothing they shouldn’t in their pockets, and that they do not have a SECOND phone stashed away after giving in the first one. Yeah, kids do that, too. The first phone was not even a usable one. It was a “beard.”

19 year old girls might not date 20-21 year old boys because they are afraid that those boys are too young and immature (which most are, compared to girls in that age group), have no prospects of a future parnassah as yet, and are not ready for the responsibilities of marriage and a family.

Aries, I don’t think it is a matter of comparisons to date more than one person. I think that some people so romanticize the notion of shidduch dating as an end in itself rather than as a means to an end, that they could actually convince themselves that the first one is THE one.

So what’s the next logical step, palm reading and phrenology (reading of the bumps in the skull)? These pseudo-sciences are very dangerous, in my opinion. I would rather gather my intel in the normal way. Spend enough time with the person to see what that person is really like. Sometimes one will make a mistake in judgment, but handwriting analysis is largely a judgment call, too.

“Reminds me of the story of a Rov who was soliciting tzedaka from a wealthy Yid, and was refused entry to his home based on his mediocre levush. The Rov returned days later dressed exquisitely. He was granted entrace. When offered to sit down to a meal with the Ba’al habayis, he proceeded to put the food, very obviously, in his pockets. The gevir asked shockingly why the Rov was doing such a thing? The Rov responded “clearly it is my outer appearance that you respect”, “not the person that is wearing them”. “So, you are feeding my clothing, not me.”

Great story, and my Rov just told it to us during a shiur. People are very much into appearances, and it is not to our credit as a people that this has become the norm.

Margarine is basically hydrogenated oil, with the hydrogen added in order to thicken it to solidify it. There may be a reason for that consistency in a recipe and oil or applesauce may not work for the texture of the finished product.

I never ever heard of this term. I would have thought, had I not read the reast of the posts, that a “tuna bagel” kind of a guy, is a chilled out guy, who is not into fancy restaurants or clothes, and is satisfied with the minimum of anything. He is happy with a tuna bagel, doesn’t need the Barney’s suits or steak dinners, and doesn’t want that type of wife who is materialistic. Just goes to show you…

Calling someone a fruitcake is VERY uncomplimentary – means he is a nut job!

Guess what – the internet can be accessed through (TA DA !!!) one’s cell phone.

Arc, if I bought a ticket from an organization, it does not mean I support that organization, but the truth is the ticket purchase itself is support, as the prizes are usually donated items. I might have bought the ticket because someone I KNOW suports that organization and solicited the ticket purchase. It does not mean I want to necessarily offer additional support (though I might choose to do so).

I think the problem (among many others) with the principal speaking to the boys is also that it might give the principal a false preconceived notion. it is very hard to unring a bell, and when someone says something unflattering, i.e. the boy is not a serious learner, it is hard to shake that image. That’s not fair to the boy, who might be tring to make positive changes in his learning habits.

Thank you so much, PY, because those memories really DO give me tremendous comfort. Amein to the bracha for klal Yisroel.

“Everything I do, I do in his name. Every tzedaka I give I give in his name. I always stop and ask myself if he would approve if he would be proud of what I am doing. And not only him, but I ask myself if my father-in-law a”h a Rav would be proud of me as well. He used to collect tzedaka for others and when I found myself collecting tzedaka for at-risk kids I look up to shamayim, wink and think “you are doing this to me, are you happy?”

I actually re-read your post, Aries, and this paragraph made me cry, because it resonated so very much with me and reminded me of the very first time I made Pesach without my mom O”H’s hands beside me. It was our first Pesach apart in my entire life. As I bensched licht, and could smell the chicken soup, the gefilte fish and all the other Pesach food I had cooked (as per her way of doing things), looked around at the turned over for Pesach kitchen (a job we always did together at my parents’ house), and realized she was no longer there, all I could think of was, did I make her proud of me?

The answer, I hope, is yes, but in truth I will NEVER be able to fill my mother or my father’s shoes, because they were incredible people, baalei anivus who never missed an opportunity to do a chessed for even a stranger, much less their family, friends, and neighbors. I actually found out as we walked around the block when we got up from the shiva for my father, another chessed that he had done, of which we were totally unaware. Our neighbor had a very young son who R”L was dying of a condition similar to leukemia. Unbeknownst to us, my dad had approached the father and asked him how they were managing with the medical bills, and if they were having difficulty he would go try to raise some money for them, and started to write a check for a substantial amount (in those days) from his own pocket. Believe me, we had no great wealth at all financially, my dad just saw a need and wanted to address it. Fortunately, the neighbor did not need his help, but he never forgot this offer. The son sadly passed away shortly after that. It was not until 30 years or so later, when my father died, that we were zocheh to hear about this kindness through hashgocha protis, mamesh as we were returning from our walk around the block and the neighbor just “happened” to leave for work at that exact moment in time and saw us, and suddenly remembered this story. My dad O”H never once mentioned it to us and not even to my mother.

Girls might have 100s of dates, but unless even ONE of those 100 boys is an appropriate shidduch for that particular girl, it won’t work. Also, and let’s be honest here, even if she goes out with 100 and LIKES them all, THEY have to like her, too. I know lovely girls, really sweet, pretty, charming, intelligent, but the guys they liked from their several shidduchim, did not give THEM a second or third chance. The girls, on the other hand, went out with boys who were “iffy” to them after the first date, and did in fact give them a second and even third date, to be certain of their decision to not go forward. Metaphorically speaking, it always takes two to tango, and if one of the partners refuses to continue to dance, the other one cannot get out on the floor.

FTR, I have always encouraged my children to accept virtually all reasonable sounding shidduchim, and even go a second time, unless the person is truly obnoxious. This has resulted in many dates that were really appalling, with guys who were arrogant, unapologetic when an hour late or more (and did not let them know they were running late), or took phone calls throughout the date, didn’t get them even a soda, etc. When someone tells me her child cannot meet normal guys, I know exactly what she means. And if I say the same, then I would hope my friends are not judging my girls as being too picky.

I am with Aries on this. There is something really skeevy about someone in the hanhala talking to kids about another kid who is not even IN the school. It is not up to children (even when they are teens) to discuss another child’s failings. The “good” kids will feel uncomfortable being put in that position, and those kids who are NOT uncomfortable, are IMO not such good kids.

I think that Aries made some extremely relevant suggestions.

IS it EVER!!!!!!