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Because then they can’t conclude that MBP ever does cause herpes either.
All they have is a bunch of babies who have herpes and all had MBP. To make any conclusion, you need to compare that number to the babies who did not have MBP and say there is a higher incidence, and then account for other possible differences in the samples, like a likelihood that the MBP families also have other small kids in the family who would expose them, or other possible differences.
Until you do that, it is a literature paper, not a science paper.
Are you asking a normative question or a positive question?
The answer to the positive question is that it is not a big deal unless they are obese.
The answer to the normative question is the same, in my opinion.
Um? Are you planning to hire a starving poel to shave you?
You’re not even making any sense over here. Their objective was only to prove that sometimes MBP causes HSV, not all the time.
So why in the world would they have to look at cases where the kid didn’t come down with HSV?
Because you cannot establish causation without looking at the cases where the same exposure happened and did not cause infection. Without that, the whole study is just naarishkeit.
When did this get so personal?
That’s RABBI Tendler to you.
He was consulted on medical issues by many big rabbonim, including his father in law, R’ Moshe Feinstein zt”l.
I just wanted to quote those, and see how they looked together.
Ok, sorry for feeding the trolls.
There is no cousin, no guy, no girl, no engagement. Just more_2.
Improperly towing cars is certainly a criminal matter, and the cops could do something if they wanted to. They just don’t believe you that there is improper towing happening.
I am a rav.
I’m finding this conversation very fascinating by the way, because I didn’t imagine that you would be falling over yourself to defend Rav Shteinman if he did something you thought was wrong.
You should keep your nose out of it. It is absolutely none of your business.
As far as him “hiding” things, I am sure he will tell her he has been engaged, as their relationship progresses.
sam: is the land part of the sukka?
Same reason we beat women while learning Haisha Rabbah.
No, it is only because of this case.
Again, what is the source that you aren’t allowed to make up stories about a malshin? IIRC, you are allowed to do much worse, and it is even a mitzva to.
Well either way, it is exactly the same as what he is publicly doing, so it is no more derogatory.
Sam: Why bothers you about that last line? It is precisely what he is advocating in Rockland county? Presumably he favors it in NYC and would have been happy to advocate it there also.
Besides, you are allowed to tell lashon hara about a Malshin.
Actually, I did intend to call him a Malshin. But not as a pejorative, just as a descriptive and halachic term.
Feif: Just tell me why I’m wrong. Just make up one even bizarre explanation for why he would go to the secular authority about something that he apparently cannot convince the rabbonim of his city.
I would call my own rosh yeshiva a malshin if he did this.
Methods. Eight neonates with genital HSV-1 infection after ritual circumcision were identified.
Exactly what scientific standards does a study have, when it
studies 8 cases?
And bases its conclusion on the average amount of time between exposure and infection, when the times range up to 3 times the amount of time as the lower end?
And uses no counterfactuals?
And makes assumptions based on an exposure which every baby in that community is exposed to, without using the average from the community?
Hilarious.
RABBI Tendler is a huge talmud chacham, and it is not for you to judge him.
Yes, usually I wouldn’t. But when he is a malshin, all bets are off.
Yeravom ben nevat was also the gadol hador before he became an oved avodah zara. And the bnei yisroel were still held to task for not standing up to him, when he suggested worshiping avodah zara. Even though he had a good lomdish explanation.
There is no defense for tendler (?? ????? ????). If he wants to make a takana, he should go to the other rabbonim in his city. If he can convince them-good. If he can’t–he is not allowed to instead institute it via the government.
It is not good enough for him to simply claim that it is sakanas nefashos. I will grant that he thinks it is. But does he have access to information that the rest of the rabbonim in his city do not? If he does, let him show it to them. If his argument is so strong, let him convince the other rabbonim in his city to act together with him. Clearly, the other rabbonim do not agree with him.
Use your sheitel and draft notice as fuel.
A better question is whether an ???? ??? is kosher for schach, since it is gidulei karka.
It is called White Collar CRIME for a reason.
In Germany it is a crime to do a bris. In NY it will probably soon be a crime to do metzitza bpeh. Do you really care what those anti-semites think is a crime? If you want to know if a business transaction is stealing, call a rav. Or ask your local coffee roomaratzim.
The shechina weeps when a couple gets divorced.
And I weep when I cut onions. And my baby weeps when he’s bored. And my wife weeps when she reads the newspaper.
Sam:
So if we are still mechalel shabbos for it, doesn’t it make sense that it would also crowd out a very minor sakana?
Well, frequently it involves the agents of the other party, so the party they are agents of is not harmed. Like if you are the agent of the acquirer, and you buy up shares of the target.
apekurma: So let’s say you are a homeless guy who is riffling through the garbage looking for bottles, and you see information about a tender offer. So you buy options in the target. That would be criminal under Rule 14-e3.
There is no shliach, no meshaleiach, no anything. In fact the people who own the target stock now might not own it when the tender goes through anyway. And the people who are selling options certainly don’t own it, and would be selling options on the market to someone else anyway. In fact, maybe you are just helping them because you increased the demand for options and made them more expensive.
Look, the two year old threads are also ridiculous. There is no such problem. Unless we are using quiet as a euphemism for something else.
Well, if they are gonna die in the cage and not be given to tzedaka, that’s a problem right there.
Mosheemmes: I deliberately made the case a merger, not a tender offer, for that reason. I believe you are referring to Rule 14-e3.
Well, say it is insider trading. Why is that so bad?
Suppose you are working in a law firm, and you know that a company who is your client is going to merge with another company, so you buy up the stock of that other company? You would go to jail for that–but does it seem so bad.
Meanwhile, if you were the waitress who overheard them talking about it and you went and bought up the stock, it would not be a crime at all.
Does that make sense that one you go to jail and one is no crime? Are your morals really based on that distinction?
PBA: If (completely hypothetically) it could be proven that MBP carries with it serious health risks would you still recognize the rights of those MInhagim?
Certainly.
I suppose at some point it could be clear they were lunatics, like if it killed every time, and we know that bris is not yehareig v’al yaavor. But even your hypothetical does not go that far.
See, this is about the fact that the people doing this have poskim, and have gedolim, and this is what they are being told to do. How can I sit here and decide that their poskim and gedolim are so clearly wrong, on an issue which really is not very clear at all, and indeed is the way bris has been practiced for millennia?
It is very rare for a posek to be that wrong that popa in his throne would be willing to call him obviously wrong. The only example I can think of off the bat, is the ??? ?????, of whom this discussion is about.
Zdad: of course. And don’t get us wrong, I myself do not approve of MBP. I just recognize the right of other minhagim who disagree with me.
But health: what is the purpose of testing for something with a 90% probability. How about just saying if you have open sores you shouldn’t do MBP that day? (You could just have the father do it.)
zdad: 90% of people have it. It lies dormant but never goes away.
Health: How would that work? Don’t like 90% of people carry Herpes simplex 1?
Iced, my point is that with one mother and her child where they would get infected from? However, when many people are involved…
Dude: you have no idea what you are saying. Most people in the united states are infected with herpes simplex 1, and it is not the same as the virus you are thinking of. Do a google search and see for yourself. Search for oral herpes or herpes simplex
PBA, on the other hand,if someone goes and sucks wounds by people, there could be cases of reshaim who have machalos becuse of their aveiros. Get it?
I don’t think you know what this herpes virus is. It is carried by something like 97% of the population and causes cold sores when it flared up. It is not the herpes you are thinking of.
mdd:
You are the one being ridiculous. You are using sevara instead of science. It’s like you’re in the stone ages. If you want to know whether nursing spreads herpes or other viruses, go read a medical journal.
Re: the propaganda piece about nursing. Nursing is not done from an open wound!
I know nothing about nursing. But are you really using sevara to be mechaliek between ingesting something and sucking a wound? Why not use science? Go read some academic papers about it.
MDD: And that is exactly what you should be telling tendler. He is the one who apparently cannot tolerate any opinion but his own, and goes to the goyim to force it on us.
I don’t have a problem with his opinion. I have a problem with his being a malshin. And a rasha. If he is so sure he is right, let him convince the gedolim. The litvish gedolim don’t even hold you need MBP; let him try to convince them to get involved. No, he goes straight to the goyim on his own gasus haruach. Well, that’s what takes him out of machane yisroel.
And I have to add; it is so liberating to be able to tell lashon hara about someone! There is no way this guy is a tinok shenishba–he is Rav Moshe’s son in law! Ah, this is so geshmak; I should really save it for shabbos.
Someone asked my if they should get a sheep head. I told them to get a lamb chop and say “yehi ratzon that we should be a rib and not a tail).
Can we get back to tendler bashing (?? ????? ????)
Once upon a time, I bought some cheese at pomegranate that said it was aged 9 months. But, it really wasn’t very hard–it was soft and squishy like any mozzarella cheese.
So I called a posek (I disremember who) and asked him. I said it’s aged 9 months, but it isn’t hard. He said then I don’t need to wait.
I figured that would be the answer, since the halacha is for ????? ???. Now, issur v’heter (in taz) does define that as 6 months, so it is not obvious. But this posek confirmed that for me. http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9145&st=&pgnum=398&hilite=
Also, I have this feeling that I don’t really want to be so machmir on this din. After all, the entire din of waiting six hours after meat is not min hadin, and is just a chumrah we do to be choshesh like the rishonim who read the gemarah as shiur seudah. And the extension to cheese is only a chumrah on top of that, that the rema says it is nice to be machmir–while the maharshal says it is ??? ????? to keep it. And the taz says to only keep it for wormy cheese (cheese with cheese mites, it is kosher). So I like to be meikel on any part of it that I can.
WIY: So basically, you not only insist on a girl who looks good, but who looks good without makeup.
Sam! I’m a bit surprised by what you are saying in this thread. The acharonim are arguing with the gemara and our mesorah?
So these people who joined us for a meal on rosh hashana brought fresh figs that they had picked.
So we were discussing (before hand, knowing it was coming), that figs may be wormy. So my bro says it is a problem. But I says, look, they just picked them. So if they are wormy, it was maslia b’mechubar. So I ate them.
Sam:
He’s got a right to an opinion. He doesn’t have the right to use the secular authority to enforce his opinion on the rest of klal yisroel.
????????? ?? ??? ????
If he is so sure he is correct, let him go to the moetzes and build a consensus on this. No, he goes to the government. And that is what takes him outside of the machane yisroel.
Chacham is as chacham does.