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popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Yes, thank you oomis for bringing this thread back on track.
So if I understand the implication of your post correctly, it is that if you have two wives you will like one better but will not hate either, but if you have only one wife you will hate her and divorce her.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI get nervous, but it’s the audience I’m worried about. I’ll be fine–they’re the ones who have to listen to me.
Very nerve-wracking indeed.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantFakert, I have much more experience with gaining weight. I’m telling you exactly how it’s done.
You can balance the ice cream with a reisman’s brownie bar. Perfectly balanced. Carbs, proteins, fats.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantPopa thinks this is naarishkeit. Ice cream works much better than ensure. Also chicago style deep dish pizza.
(I should mention that I never wrote down that recipe, and I google for that thread each time I make a new batch of dough. Each batch is good for 3 of my pizzas, so it lasts 3 weeks of motzei shabbos.)
popa_bar_abbaParticipantIn some old fashioned Modern Orthodox shuls, Chassidishe shteibels and Rebbishe batei k’nessiois
Hmm, mine is not really any of those three.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantMaybe denominator is like dominates, so it is on top.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantUnless you are a math teacher, who cares as long as you can do the math.
Sometimes you are reading about a calculation in prose, and it refers back to what increases and decreases the denominator and numerator.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantIt is the people who used to be reformed or conservative Jews and are now modern orthodox that join kiddish clubs for the most part.
No, that isn’t the case.
popa_bar_abbaParticipant1. Probably bec they are a socialist state and fund everything else.
2. No.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI wouldn’t want a minyan in my house, bec then I’d need to be on time.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantnot bad, not bad.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantOh my, kiddush club this week was awesome. We had a celebrity appearance, but I shan’t say who.
Booze: Dalwhinnie 15; Balvenie 14 (Caribbean cask)
Herring: Matjes herring, homemade by popa.
Crackers: Ritz.
Donuts: Yes, but not telling which; too identifying.
Cupcakes: Excellent ones, didn’t see whom by.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantWhen I say here, I mean the gemara in nedarim. Apparently you are saying there are two theories of dina d’malchusah, and neither apply to the gemara’s case, but the ?? only explained why one of them does not apply.
As far as the shutfus theory, I respectfully disagree. I do not think there is a shutfus theory that works in democracy, since nobody in the country views it as a shutfus; everyone views it as struggle to get the most value for themselves, including risk aversion, satisfaction of belonging to a social welfare state, and other satisfactions.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI don’t find that very clear. And again, do you see how difficult it is to read this that there are different theories behind different types of dina d’malchusah, and he never explains why the other theories don’t apply here?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantYes, but don’t you see how then you run into the question I’m asking. Which is, we know there is also usually dina d’malchusa for other stuff besides taxes, and so then that must be for a different reason. But the ?? never explains why that different reason doesn’t apply to taxes. And never even explicates that there are two different theories of dina d’malchusah, and nobody else I am aware of says such a thing either.
And taxes back then were also for public services. That is, for the king’s protection, and for his public works (roads, aqueducts, etc). I don’t see any difference between the taxes then and the taxes now except in the means of collection, and the reason we switched from a tax farming system to a direct taxing system is that now we have the ability to confirm your income through third party reporting.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI have met Rabbi Askotzky personally, and was impressed.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI suppose if Rav Schachter says that, he must think that.
But the most natural reading is that he is talking about dina dmalchusa in general–otherwise, does he think there is one reason that applies only to taxes, and one reason that applies to everything else but does not apply to taxes? (because if there is a reason that applies to everything else, he’d need to distinguish why it also doesn’t apply to taxes or doesn’t also apply to eretz yisroel).
also: http://www.hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=16&daf=28&format=pdf
popa_bar_abbaParticipantsam: why do you think the interpretation of that ran is incorrect? It seems the straightforward reading to me.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantAre the tzedukim the kohanim b’nei tzadok from yesterday’s haftara?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantpopa: For some reason, most people who need to gain weight lose weight over Pesach.
Good idea. Next pesach I’ll just decide that I need to gain weight.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantAnd what if you can only recharge by having fun? That is, if you only do things you enjoy while thinking that you are recharging, it ruins it and it doesn’t work and you don’t recharge?
popa_bar_abbaParticipant3.Do you have any suggestions for people who need to gain weight and keep CY?
Yes. Pesach all year.
April 28, 2013 3:39 am at 3:39 am in reply to: Letter circulated in Brooklyn about Motzei Shabbos hangouts #950782popa_bar_abbaParticipantA teen who goes every Motzei Shabbos told me that everyone is at the bonfires tonight.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/bonfires-on-motzaei-shabbos
popa_bar_abbaParticipantbump
April 28, 2013 2:35 am at 2:35 am in reply to: Letter circulated in Brooklyn about Motzei Shabbos hangouts #950778popa_bar_abbaParticipantAnyone going tonight?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantYes, I think you are being a bit naive, although probably not hopelessly.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI mean, I absolutely love the one where he talks about that they were learning niddah and he told his apikorsim that it is a big problem that chazal in the gemara and rishonim and acharonim objectify women, but at least when they “pasken” they will be sensitive to that.
And I’m like, what kind of cognitive dissonance does it take to consider yourself bound by an interpretation of the torah which you think was made by people who don’t share any of your worldview?
That’s probably why he learns so much, because every time he stops and has a chance to reflect, his head probably starts spinning trying to keep track of his dissonances.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI’ve met absolute real apikorsim who are real masmidim also. And who know much much more than I know.
As regards the tzedukim, yes, I am also pretty skeptical about that article. But, the question it poses really is: Are we perushim? If so, then yes, the tzedukim were considered apikorsim by the perushim. But maybe we aren’t perushim; the tannaim don’t identify themselves as perushim. So maybe the gathering at yavneh was really a new mixture of both perushim and tzedukim who came together and formed what we know as chazal.
Again, I’m pretty skeptical myself of this. But it’s a cute theory.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantOther than the guy that thinks we can undo all minhagim at the snap of a finger (because Chazal were sexist), the other two, while strange and perhaps misguided, are not rejections of the binding nature of halacha at all. Once again I think you are confusing bad reasoning with a rejection of a portion of the halachic process.
What Rabbi Linzer suggested sounds like a kiruv strategy not some sort of rejection of Chazal. Also you are misusing Occam’s Razor.
Ben,
I don’t think you need to agree with me; but this is my opinion based on the extensive interaction I have with that community. I am aware of other people who disagree with me; for example Rabbi Broyde wrote an article disagreeing with me on this exact point for crosscurrents some time ago.
I think reading that as a kiruv theory is an overly charitable reading. Why don’t you spend a few days reading Mr. Linzer’s blog and see if you still think he agrees with you and is just doing a kiruv campaign.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI don’t want to sidetrack the thread with talk about tzedukim, but in my opinion there is good reason to think that tzedukim did hold of some sort of torah sh’baal peh.
I read an interesting article about this which speculates that the chachomim after the churban don’t consider themselves either tzedukim or perushim, and were in fact made up of both sects and it was in yavne that they all sat down together and realigned as one group. If you’re curious, it is called something like “the significance of yavneh” and is written by a certain Shaye Cohen.
And rational: I don’t actually buy the argument of that article, I just think it is possible. And in thinking so, I am in agreement with the author (who I once discussed this with) and who also only thinks it is a theory and is possible.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantWell Sam, but do tell us which normal rav suggested that. I’m arfully curious now.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI don’t get it. It is to make the women feel good about themselves?
Can’t they feel good about themselves doing marriage like Hashem set up? Are women thinking differently now in a way that they can no longer feel good about themselves doing what is right? So then whose ideas are corrupted? Because he certainly never suggests that it is a problem that women can’t feel good about themselves doing what Hashem wants–if anything he’s usually suggesting that they are correct and the kasha is on chazal and Hashem.
And I’d like to know which rabbonim suggested that we should all live b’issur.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantBen:
They hold they can undo any halacha which is based on minhag because it doesn’t fit with their liberal ideology.
I recently read an article by one of their top students who they insist on calling “Dayan” where he argued that we should start from the baseline that any minhag involving women is invalid because chazal and the gedolei hasoskim and acharonim were all sexist, and then one by one make the case for each why we should “readopt” it. Frankly–that person’s wine is yayin nesech.
I more recently came across a facebook posting where a certain regarded person from their world (I have diverse friends) argued that a good solution to the agunah problems is for nobody to get married and for everyone to just live b’issur.
Meanwhile, their big groisse scholar Linzer puts for an idea that is only slightly more sad than it is funny. He thinks that to promote equality, you should have the kalla give the chosson a ring as chalipin for the kesubah. Because the classic wedding ceremony where a chosson gives the kallah a ring is unequal and implies that the chosson is buying the kallah. And I laugh–because who are you fooling? The torah does say “ki yikach”; we do learn kicha m’sdei efron; the man is the one who does the kinyan, and it is a kinyan, and the woman does not do it. So you want to pretend that it isn’t what it really is?
So I ask you: is it possible that a person who believes in the torah sh’baal peh, and believes in chazal (the gemara) would want to fool himself like that? Wouldn’t Occam’s razor say that he really doesn’t believe that chazal interpreted the torah correctly?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantOk. You might have just asked then about a shul that has no mechitza but they sit separately (see Igros Moshe OC1:44).
popa_bar_abbaParticipantBen: I think they believe some sort of halacha is incumbent on them, the same way that Christians do.
Christians are not using the same halachic process to arrive at what is incumbent, and that is why they are not part of our camp. Similarly, YCT is not using the same halachic process to arrive at what is incumbent, and that is why they are not part of my camp.
Beis shammai was part of our camp, even though they would marry a tzaras habas, because they were using the same process and simply reached a different conclusion. The tzedukim were using a different process, and that is why they were not part of our camp. (What process the tzedukim used is not clear to me; I am skeptical of the second grade pshat that they didn’t hold of any torah sh’baal peh.)
And I quite look forward to the day when we’ll all consider them tzedukim, and they will consider us the same. And YU guys will wonder if they can have interfaith dialogue with them.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantWhy not just throw the food at the other passengers?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantRationalist:
So are you asking
a) whether we follow Rav Moshe’s psak b’dieved, or
b) whether it is better to daven in a shul without a mechitza or at home?
In either event, I still recommend my alternatives above.
April 25, 2013 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm in reply to: Letter circulated in Brooklyn about Motzei Shabbos hangouts #950740popa_bar_abbaParticipantI got the letter in the mail! 5tjt reported it so did some other blogs who shall not be named.
Yes, I was trying to get you to admit to reading those blogs which shall not be named.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantIf they really sincerely follow 95% of Halacha, I think I can honestly be mochel them even though they’re wrong.
To the contrary, movements which are very similar to Judaism are the most dangerous because people have a hard time distinguishing. This is why it is said that chazal were very happy when christianity stopped keeping mitzvos. And why I will be very happy when Open Orthodoxy stops keeping all mitzvos.
And Comparing them to heterodox movements is just wrong, as you admit.
No, I do not admit that. If a person keeps even 100% of the mitzvos, but believes that halacha is not incumbent on him, he is just as bad as someone who keeps nothing.
These apikorsim think that halacha is not incumbent on them, and that they can change for reasons that are not allowed. They’re right in the same camp with Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Baptist, Catholic, Russian Orthodox, Moslem, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Niviei HaBaal, etc.
April 25, 2013 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm in reply to: Letter circulated in Brooklyn about Motzei Shabbos hangouts #950708popa_bar_abbaParticipantWhere did you hear about it?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantThere is an entire section of law called Trademark, whose entire purpose is to enable the existence of brands. They are very valuable to society.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantWhy can’t you simply go to the shul with the too short mechitza, and then throw garbage and dogs and cats over the mechitza (which should not be hard since it is so short) until there is nobody left on the other side?
Alternatively, you could burn the whole thing down, and then when it’s rebuilt politely ask for a higher mechitza.
Alternatively, you could bring your own mechitza with you, and stand inside it. I’d recommend using a large plastic bag (not see through).
Alternatively, you could come in the middle of the night, and bring a shovel, and dig up the floor several inches until the mechitza which is left is now tall enough.
Alternatively, you could subtly start putting seforim on top of the mechitza, and keep adding one or two siddurim every minute and maybe a gemara sota or two, until by the time you get to yishtabach it will be tall enough.
Alternatively, you could line up the bottles for the kiddush club on top, and then you won’t even need to leave shul for kiddush club and it will be high enough.
So you see, there are so many good alternatives, and I have to choose one of your ridiculous ideas?
popa_bar_abbaParticipantThey deleted my edits. Probably someone from here mosered me, but I understand; all’s fair in love and war.
It is quite funny that they are deleting my edits. After all, the people deleting it know that what I said is true, and nobody would deny it, and my sourcing is good. They’re blaming it on this thread, but there is no req of motives on wikipedia. It doesn’t say much about their intellectual honesty.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantI don’t think emunah is the solution to feelings of unhappiness. I think figuring out the source of the unhappiness and changing it is the solution.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantBut YCT has much more people than the yeshivish world does who are internet savvy. I shudder to think of what they could do to our wikipedia pages. So on second thought, maybe it’s just as well it got edited.
There’s nothing they could do on our wikipedia pages that isn’t already all over the blogosphere.
The reason I did what I did, is that they put on a public perception which is really very different than what they are. So they pretend to be all liberal and egalitarian, and they harshly condemn any non-egalitarian practices that we have–when they actually share most of them!
Why do you think they got upset when I posted on their page that they don’t do same-sex marriage? I’m not upset if someone says that about my yeshiva! Why do you think they deleted that they require mechitza’s? I am happy to say that my yeshiva has a mechitza and requires its graduates to have one.
Because they want to create a perception that they have egalitarian equality. That’s why.
yah, the talk page is kind of amusing.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantYou use words like “justice” and PBA says “natural law” but all I see is circular reasoning. If this is justice, or natural law, explain why we it is a good thing to have justice or natural law. And do it in a way that demonstrates why they are not just new words for the impulse for revenge.
Sure, I’ll do that.
So humans are made with certain emotions and certain natural feelings about how the world ought to work.
Like for example, ownership: It is completely natural that people think that there are things which you own and that if somebody takes it from you they are doing something wrong. It doesn’t need to be that way, and indeed philosophers ask why it is that way. And the philosophers invent all sort of apologetic reasons why it is that way–but it is all just trying to describe something which they know exists. And when you read their arguments, you come away feeling very unconvinced–because they are refusing to acknowledge that it is that way just because we naturally feel that way.
People are made that it makes sense to us that a crime needs to be punished, even if the crime wasn’t done to us. And that the way we express that something is wrong is by saying that it has to be punished. And I think that is a good thing.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantJust like I wouldn’t call a psak by rav shteinman “cute” same here. They’re both talmidei chachamim that should be respected.
1. Don’t compare a history professor in a university to Rav Shteinman.
2. I would call a pshat I heard from anyone “cute”; it is normal terminology in the yeshiva world. Perhaps we don’t have the same cultural phraseology, and that is the source of your misunderstanding. This is not surprising since you also think bochurim have beards, which everyone else on this site knows to be false.
3. For the record, here is his Wikipedia bio. I’ll let the audience judge you.
“Haym Soloveitchik (b. September 19, 1937) is the only son of Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik. He graduated from the Maimonides School which his father founded in Brookline, Massachusetts and then received his B.A. degree from Harvard College in 1958 with a major in History. After two years of post-graduate study at Harvard, he moved to Israel and began his studies toward an M.A. and PhD at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, under the historian Professor Jacob Katz. He wrote his Master’s thesis on the Halakha of gentile wine in medieval Germany. His doctorate, which he received in 1972, concentrated on laws of pawnbroking and usury.”
4. Have you read any of this other stuff? Because if you have, I’m a bit surprised that you think I am supposed to talk about him in hushed respectful tones and not use words like “cute”.
popa_bar_abbaParticipantdoesn’t that make the thread a success, according to popa standards?
I would call your response cute, but then rational will think I’m being chutzpadik
popa_bar_abbaParticipantFunniest story was once when my brother overslept and ended up at the 9:30 shteibel minyan. Halfway through Chazaras Ha’Shatz Mussaf he realizes that there’s barely a minyan in shul. The rov stops the chazzan for a second, goes to a nondescript door in the back and bangs on it going “Nu? Nu?”. Door opens to a room packed with men, kugel, cholent and whiskey.
Oh do I want to join that shul
popa_bar_abbaParticipantSam:
I figure if kavod shabbos is enough to be doche the issur of shaving, it is probably an important enough inyan that I should do it even though I’m lazy. I look pretty awful.
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