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ICOT – Thank you and tizke l’mitzvos. Hashem should give him a refuah shlaima and his parents the strength to get through this.
I think it would be a lot easier to make a system where everyone understands that posters are NOT always who they present themselves to be. If they act friendly to you, that does not make them friends, they are annonymous posters acting friendly. There is a difference.
I didn’t plan any play dates with anyone so I don’t really care whom they are in contrast with whom they claim to be, but there is what to be said for being an honest and kind person online as well as off. And attacks are intolerable regardless of whom they came from.
Think of it as a play with a bunch of actors, and when the curtain closes, go home. Don’t go backstage for a cast party.
From my experience I can add two comments (but I have never met the child in question) –
If he is showing signs now for the first time, get a second opinion. ADHD is not something that appears at 11, but several other things do.
Secondly, 30 minutes of attention and then two hours off? – doesn’t sound like any case I ever worked with. We’re talking 3 minutes or 7 on task. 10 maybe. We work our way to 15. Sounds like he may have something else going on and medicating him without doing more investigating could be a mistake. The kids on meds are usually attending for tiny amounts of time, 30 minutes is a whole class period. And 3 on a scale of 1-10 for the ADHD scale is usually a maybe, not a yes (but I could be thinking of a different scale, there are a few)
We do 504’s all the time without meds and if it works, why medicate?
CBT can work for some, so can Mountain Dew. Never heard of omega helping from those I’ve spoken to.
SaysMe – I am so glad you said that.
I personally don’t need an alarm clock. I found stress keeps me from over-sleeping. Sometimes I’m up hours before I need to be.
. . . which, if true, proves squeak’s point . . .
rats, I missed my chance T-T
torah613 and WIY – Thanks! I like the smell idea and it is probably the only one I haven’t tried yet. I bought some steaks and mesquite and set up the grill in their bedroom. If this doesn’t work I will try the smelling salts (really!)
(I hope you can tell I am making fun of myself and not you)
Edit: I get that they want to wake up, but they don’t in the morning. If they really wanted to wake up, then they would go to sleep earlier.
Interesting, how would you know what time they go to bed?
Thank you so much for saying that, I guess I am in overly-sensitive mode today. There are a couple of reasons why this is an issue for me, and I would love to hear what others have to say but I have to figure out a way to mention it without 1) making myself overly vulnerable to the obnoxious-leaning posters and 2) respecting my kids privacy.
On the simplest level though, they are not late but they would be, they don’t want to have to rush so, and have asked for help in this area because they are not finding their own efforts to be successful.
I wasn’t nagging about it, if that was what you said. And I wasn’t really looking for anyone to insult my parenting when they haven’t a clue, I was actually just trying to make a joke to redirect an unpleasant thread to a new topic. Funny how people feel my kids deserve consequences for not being able to wake up without difficulty. And how quick some of you are to assume that they are late, irresponsible or defiant when I have never indicated anything of the sort. Perhaps that is your own point of reference, B”H it is not the issue.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I really do most of them already, and try very hard not to get angry. I have no interest in discipline types of solutions as that is not the issue. They are the ones who want to be up. And I don’t mind clock suggestions, they just don’t work. I actually do make them say verbally that they are up before I consider it so, but this is about how they sleep, not when they went to bed or whether or not they feel like it. They are not “laying in bed”, they are sleeping.
golfer – so right! My babies never slept long, I have been suffering from sleep deprivation for years, but when my babies were asleep, they slept through EVERYTHING. And I never woke them for feedings or scheduling or any of that. I think this is very hormonal because the problem doesn’t begin til later. My younger ones wake themselves.
Oh – and if any of you see one of my kids here can you switch the topic and pretend we were talking about something else? Thanks
HaLeivi – you are EXACTLY right. Which is why I am stuck. NONE of theses things work but I don’t want to do anything harsher. They are not ignoring me, they don’t even know why it doesn’t work and sometimes they will come to me in the morning and ask me why I didn’t wake them. And for the record, the alarm clock we use is called Sonic Boom. Google it if you never heard of it. It wakes the neighbors but everyone in the room still sleeps.
This is especially hard for me because I never believed in waking up anyone, not even my infants and babies.
As a point of reference; I pull off their blankets, rub their heads, tickle their feet, yell, “It’s TIME TO WAKE UP” REALLY loud in their faces, and sometimes I pull their legs to the edge of the bed and swing them over the side if they are positioned right. None of this elicits a response. I won’t do water on their heads but I have considered sticking them with sharp objects and then changed my mind.
I’ll agree. I’ll even propose a new subject for discussion – can anyone give me some creative, effective but non-abusive methods for waking up boys when alarm clocks don’t work?
ThePurpleOne – I think you are getting carried away. Posters are complaining about text speak in these threads and you are deciding they are talking about you. I assume you are perfectly capable of writing regular English and the fact that you choose to write this way instead is your choice. They don’t have to like it, I personally find it extremely annoying and I feel bad that I have to skip over all your posts because I DO want to know what you have to say. I am also sorry that you continue to write that way even though it bothers so many people because obviously they would also like to know what you have to say. If they start insulting your content, then by all means defend yourself but I did not get the idea anyone here was insulting you personally. Not only that, if you reread WIY’s post you will find he was supporting you, not insulting you.
DY – I believe you misunderstood again, but I don’t believe I can explain it any better. When I tell someone their behavior is hurtful, and am guilty of the same behavior, I would want someone to assume I didn’t realize I was doing that same thing, (since I just claimed it to be hurtful) and do me the courtesy of letting me know so I can change. That is not name calling on any level. That is called being a friend.
And why wouldn’t it be in this thread? It was a response to his opening post?
DY – your defense is misplaced as I wasn’t attacking and I wasn’t calling him a hypocrite. You also can’t use one incident to tell me that a bunch of others never happened. Although I agree with his motive for putting the person down in that particular post, I believe very strongly that there are other ways of doing it that would be both more appropriate and more effective.
If I was calling him a hypocrite, that would make me a hypocrite as my criticism is in regard to his putting others down. I was trying to point out to him that he may not realize that some posters see his behavior to be equally as mean and that if he does indeed find it distasteful, he may, himself, want to consider change. It wasn’t what I wanted from him, it was about what I thought he would want from himself. I was trying to avoid too lengthy a discussion ( and failed), however, because then people tend to pick apart and answer to various sentence fragments and the point gets lost.
I did consider leaving out all the spaces and commas in order to make this post shorter but decided against it.
torah613 – I agree
popa – I know we’ve ‘discussed’ this before but I continue to be baffled by your strong stance on this when, as rabbi_dr posted, you do the same thing yourself. I am not saying this to demean you in anyway, perhaps hearing this in context you can accept this as well meant constructive criticism and adjust your posts as well.
wear golashes – problem solved
I personally prefer to use proper grammar but don’t mind the mistakes others make. I do find the text-speak difficult to read though, and I find myself skipping those posts and threads. It is my choice, of course, but why put yourself in a position where people may opt out of listening to what you have to say? Do I think it is appropriate for anything beyond simple texts? No. But I don’t find it offensive. And if I was a mod, I would even offer to ‘long-hand’ it whenever I had time, as a public service. Along with adding periods and correcting thread title errors which I find bother me much more than post-errors do.
How odd, the one who straight out called me an idiot and a jerk (and then deleted my posts asking for an apology) is so warm and fuzzy to others.
42 – so subtle! v’hamayvin yavin.
+1, especially with the young posters.
Really Goq, which one? **guilty of soliciting personal info**
David Bar-Magen: I feel torn in regard to your words. Those who are being judged as cruel (not the trolls) are really suffering from a tremendous lack of understanding of those with nothing. It is so foreign to them that they must assume it is poor management or a stone unturned. I have even been so lucky as to experience some of those views from people on the board of the charity organizations themselves! Hashem should bless them always to be on that side of the fence.
With tremendous respect I must say, though, I do feel that there is a lack of understanding on your part as well. There are many people out there who suffer tremendous humiliation every time a collector comes to their door. It reminds them of their inability to give, their ineptitude and lack of worth. Some people would rather you think them cruel than pathetic. I do not excuse them for how they make you feel, but I do feel small from your words and I am sure you never meant that.
As I said before, I only wish you the best. I hope and pray that you will receive a Yeshua from your situation and I am sure that every pain you feel and every tear you have shed has been recorded by Hashem himself. Try to see the good in it somehow, thank Hashem for your growth and beg for His Mercy (I do not imply that you haven’t yet). All the best.
I think telling someone who cannot afford rent to think about finding a cheaper community to live in so that they can be more comfortable, is a FAR cry from throwing someone out of town.
gaw – I know it’s right cuz I see it everyday, whether or not you believe it is a separate issue 🙂 Obviously it is too complicated of a subject to hash out in a chat room but you are welcome to talk to our volunteer CFP’S next time you are in town!
As a general aside, not many people making $25K with only one kid will qualify for any assistance at all, and I don’t even know of any studio’s for as low as $1K a month. I will tell you that in one case scenario there was a couple who had plenty of money and job security until someone needed a surgery/treatment that wasn’t covered, and their job, savings and support system disappeared within months with lots of debt left behind. It happens.
Golfer: Thanks! (I too can’t always take the heat and send myself out of the kitchen)
With all due respect, perhaps you should see a financial planner to see where you can “slim down” so that you can live within your means? I have no idea of what your finances are, but someone who has a job and is on government programs should have enough not to be “steadily destitute”. Rent, medical and food should all be taken care of by the government
gavra-at-work: It is not only possible but happens pretty often. Rent isn’t taken care of by the government in most cases, food is supplemented, at best, but not even close to meeting the needs of a kosher family (with no free school lunches). Clothing, school ‘stuff’ and tzitzis alone are huge expenses that are funded barely or not at all.
It may be hard for many to understand but slimming down is for people who have money and use it poorly. People whose incomes, with assistance, are still $1000 per month short on a regular, non-yom tov and non-clothes buying month can’t ‘slim down’. I work with an organization that helps provide things to those who need and I see it often. You (the generic ‘you’) can make a lot of assumptions but it is the sad reality. Thank Hashem that it is so hard for you to understand.
DBM: That being said, Daas Yochid made much of my points, be grateful for those dollars, you have no idea how hard they were for some people to scrape together.
I join those who promise to daven for you and for all the rest of us who suffer from destitution in so many different areas of Hashem’s blessings. May this new child be born in health and bring your family nachas, simcha and parnassa.
A doctor would have been a mandated reporter and would have had to call the police if he saw evidence of abuse. Or suicide, if that was the intent of the cutting.
DaMoshe – that’s the most heart warming thing I’ve read all day!
I am careful how I post. You said you don’t want any opinions so I was telling you not to ask us. I am sorry if I misread your words as rude and answered inappropriately.
I don’t know what you mean by “a program that is working”. Our program is working. It was funded by the government Title 1 program which is to support kids who are behind. Are you talking about internet use being insecure? Are you talking about the children getting educational value from their usage? Are you wondering if the ipad will be more motivating than the stuff they replaced? (*am asking sincerely*)
And our school’s network has a filter, it is for the staff as well and there is no getting around it without getting caught. ALL network activity is recorded and listed to its user. A seventh grader who signed on to the internet without permission was suspended.
We have ipads for the second grade classes as a part of a grant. If there is no wi-fi in the building than the ipad doesn’t have internet on it. Also, our school’s internet is filtered so anything you use in the building is filtered. Find out what they are using it for/with, don’t ask us.
usually they are like that to give themselves the illusion of importance. Good for you for not falling victim.
popa – you do say bizarre things sometimes.
Think gashmiyus, people, g-a-s-h-m-i-y-u-s!
Fine then. I would wish for a full set of forks.
cantgetit – I am NOT trying to say that it is different in regard to guilty/non guilty. I am telling you it is apples and oranges in regard to what brought it on, why, and how it was approached. You are welcome to decide that I am wrong, although I haven’t a clue how you would even know if I was or why it matters so much to you that I see it differently. I obviously have no intention of bringing in why, I don’t think it’s our place to hash out other peoples issues in public forums.
How about if you state that in your opinion she is correct and I will tell you that I agree to disagree.
Right now this is my biggest spiritual wish in and out of the CR:
For people to learn that when defending Hashems Torah, you are STILL obligated to respect Hashem’s children.
When you defend words that you interpret as anti-Torah ( sometimes correctly and sometimes not) you still have a Halachik obligation to attack the words and posts without destroying the person. Your behavior should not be more anti-Torah than their words were.
cantgetit: apples and oranges
DY – I firmly believe you are smart enough to know what CAD meant when he wrote that. What you said in response was below the belt and untrue. An accusation like that out of context can be very harmful to both of you.
moi: In regard to your first paragraph only – you are comparing apples and oranges.
zdad – right. my friend is male. Was it harder to believe that my friend was male than to believe I was telling the truth? interesting.
Thank you for that story. I had a similar thing happen when my sister was critically ill. A friend went to the Stiepler Zt”l to ask for a brocho for her. My friend told another friend that instead of giving her a brocha, the Gadol said something else that my friend understood to mean that she would not recover (I never found out exactly what the words were). She died two days later. B”H there is still a Gadol alive who can see as he saw.
My son who likes Lipa thought this was somewhat typical and not so different. If you pay attention you will notice lubavitch ‘stuff’ throughout. We just assumed he made this with/for them to use in their outreach. If that IS the case (my son mentioned it, not me) than some of us here may owe him a bit of an apology.
If anyone remembers Laurie Dann – we had armed guards for a while after that episode. It was cost prohibitive. The Jewish buildings in Chicago got homeland security money to upgrade all the windows, doors, cameras etc. That and the learning of the talmidim/talmidos should do it. Unless Hashem chooses otherwise. We can’t think of spending money we don’t have.
Why on earth would his mother take him shooting?
There is no evidence that she did. It was something being looked into not verified.
thanks 🙂
And why do the mods let some people be as agressive as they want but my posts which, though angry, are not disrespectful and have all been deleted.