Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Dorah: If all you could afford was a wedding in your Shul’s social hall catered by the local butcher on Main Street, that’s the Chasuna you would provide for your child? If the only way you could “upgrade” from that de minimis wedding was to accept donations from other Yidden, you’d refuse it and simply have your wedding in the Shul basement?
“I can get behind increased government oversight on diet/exercise etc”
Next the government can get into the shidduch scene and have their shadchanim making shidduchim.
Pekak: RJBS was called by his rabbinic colleagues in YU as “JB” both directly when speaking to him and when referring to him.
Yseribus: It’s directly from Rav Moshe himself; nothing second hand. I cited above exactly where to find Rav Moshe’s speech published as well as where to find actual audio recordings of Rav Moshe and Rav Ahron denouncing going to college.
Coffee Addict: Try posting again with a slight rewording, removing whatever you think was inflammatory.
Yseribus: How much does a synthetic fur streimel cost and how much does a cubic zirconium ring cost?
Avira, no, but I remember his posts. I don’t think I made more than five posts there. I was more a reader than a participant (although I did have an occasion or two to email and speak to Rabbi Shapiro by phone.)
Avira, did you by any chance post on this forum as Matisyohu28, over ten years ago? And, perhaps, under a similar name on Rabbi Shapiro’s site?
Mod: I’m wondering whether my pending new thread from last night (not the one that posted already) is pending because of it’s length it still needs to be reviewed or if there’s a concern regarding a choice of words somewhere in it? If it is the latter, I’d appreciate if I could resubmit it with a modification, if necessary, as it took considerable time to compose the write up and I believe the overall sentiment expressed in it was written in a very respectful manner. Thank you
Yseribus: Is Rav Shach Litvish enough for you? First of all, before WWII, in Europe, virtually none of the Litvish Yeshivos had any serious secular studies program. All that is American. Secondly, Rav Chaim Segal ZT’L, the Menahel of the High School at Yeshiva Chaim Berlin was once told by Rav Shach ZT’L that if possible, he should not be teaching English studies. In Eretz Yisroel, almost all Chareidi Yeshivos do not have English at that age. Rav Aharon Kotler ZT’L made some kind of commitment not to allow English studies on the HS level in Lakewood. The exact details, and if this was actually a Takanah or merely a preference, is not clear and depends who you ask. In any case, Rabbi Elya Svei, Rosh Yeshiva of Philadelphia and a student of Rav Aharon’s, was asked why he allows English in Philly if Rav Aharon was against it. What difference can there be between the town of Lakewood NJ and Philadelphia PA? Reb Elya answered that he has no choice, and that currently, the Baalei Batim would not send their kids to the Yeshiva except under these circumstances. Is any of this the ideal? No. It is not. Is it justified? The schools say it is, as they have no choice. But the point is not what the Jews do, its what Judaism wants. Everyone agrees that it would be a higher level, a preferable situation if we would indeed not learn English even at the HS level, at least not beyond what is necessary to survive. Nobody claims it is an ideal.
Regarding High School, the only reasons it is allowed is either because education is mandated by State Law (in New York it is until age 17), or simply because if they did not have High School education in the Yeshivas, parents would simply send their kids to worse places to get it.
But it is definitely looked upon not as a l’chatchilah, but rather as something that is annoyingly necessary in the current environment.
Today, there are a small number of High Schools in America – particularly in Lakewood – that do not teach English. Also, many Yeshivos do try to reduce the amount of secular studies as much as possible, through knocking out the last semester of English, and a number of kids are leaving HS early to enter Bais Medrash.
Is Rav Moshe and Rav Ahron Litvish enough for you? Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT’L denounced college in a Teshuva, and in a famous speech delivered to his students, published under the title “The Counsel of the Wicked” (Vaad LeHaromas Keren HaTorah, New York, 1978). There he reiterates that everyone has an obligation to become great in Torah, we should not care so much about Cadillac’s (yes, this was said in the “olden days”), and that learning Torah is what we should be pursuing, not secular stuff. He says in America you do not need college to make a Parnassa, and we should be willing to live on little, not a lot, for the sake of Torah, and that R. Nehuray’s statement of abandoning all skills in favor of Torah applies all that more today that we live in a country where you can make a parnassa without college, with no miracles needed.
There is a tape available in many Seforim stores called “The prohibition to learn in Colleges” (Yiddish), which contains addresses by Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT’L and Rav Aharon Kotler ZT’L condemning college.
Syag, we’re missing your valuable input. Please share a few thoughts on the issues at hand.
Mazal Tov, LF!!!
How’s it any different than other Gedolim having very strong words against the actions of other Gedolim? i.e. In Ponovezh, Chaim Berlin, Rav Yaakov Emden and Rav Yonosan Eybeschutz, Rambam, etc.
The OPs point was that diamond engagement rings came directly from the goyish world. Of course give expensive presents, etc. But this particular “thing to do” is a foreign import.
Bravo! I second the OP.
Next thing you know some buffoon will have the old lady arrested because she held the hand of a teenager who helped her cross the street. Or have an adult arrested for having held a child’s hand to cross the street to their home after getting off the bus. Or having a neighbor arrested for giving a child a light congratulatory pat on the back for graduating elementary school.
None of the feeble-minded who opined that there’s some kind of issue for an adult to lightly put his hand on the back of shirt of the shoulder of a teenager for the twenty seconds they walk through a very crowded hallway, addressed Menachem’s very pertinent point regarding whether you call 911 at every Chasuna you attend and at every Shul during Simchas Torah when adults put their hand on the back of a child or, the much worse crime of, holding a child’s hand in the dancing circles.
Every wedding and every Simchas Torah should be seeing dozens of men being led out in handcuffs.
akuperma has good data to share about this issue.
DaMoshe: Did you hear any other bubbe maisas that you want to share?
Recorded, as in a 1950s era video or audio?
No one has the right to tell any family that the wtfe has to get a job in addition to the husband’s job. Period. The normal default expected behavior of humans from the beginning of time until recent history has been the husband works and the wife runs the home and takes care of the children. That the world has gone beserk and started sending mothers out of the home is absolutely no reason to try to force Jewish women, Chasidish or otherwise, to do so. End of discussion. That is the Torah way. Halacha is full of admonitions that women should not leave the home other than the few times it is unavoidable. That others are following the Torah and Halacha on an issue where you feel you had to change b’dieved to do otherwise, is no excuse to try to force anyone else to take up your heter. And, no, entitlement programs do not require a two income family to qualify.
So with the primary reason for the disparity in income between Torah Jews and the national average being a one income family versus a two income family (especially two full time working adults), that disproves the lie that a lack of college or other community education decisions contribute to a notably lower income than average public school graduates in New York.
Furthermore, much like the Park Slope hippie with his archeology and anthropology degree not earning him any especially high income, a decision he consciously made since archeology and anthropology is his passion, something he’s willing to take a significant pay cut compared to other educational choices he had, something that is absolutely his right to choose. You are no one to tell anyone else to become a doctor, lawyer or whatever else you had a cholem about. And, yes, even with that decision should that goy have ten children no one else has any right whatsoever to complain. And on that same token, any Jew, Chasidish, Yeshivish or Litvish, has that same right to choose a lower earning parnassa to trade off for more family time, more Torah time, more educational pursuits or whatever else he rationals his decision on what career and incoming earning potential he decides.
If the government doesn’t want to give welfare to families with “too many children” who pursued a career in a lower earning bracket, the state legislature can disqualify such families from snap and Medicaid. But should they ever have the chutzpah to propose such legislation, the African-American community will riot in America’s cities, since that would bankrupt all their welfare queens, who are the real and most numerous beneficiaries of the entitlement programs, rather than any demographic of Jews.
The New York Post got wind of the “story” from the so-called “frum” websites. The rest of the media got wind of it from the Post.
Shimon: A far better idea would be for you to put your head in a Gemora, for once.
Yseribus: That’s median household income, not median individual income. The artisian hippie from Park Slope lives with his girlfriend, who also is earning an income, a dog and maybe one child. Their combined income for a tiny family puts them squarely in the middle class. The Satmar guy earns more than either him or his girlfriend, but not both combined. And his Rebbetzin is running a nursery in her home — of her own ten kids, which she isn’t formally paid for.
So, sure, the goy has a higher combined household income with their 1.2 children, but the guy in KJ has a higher individual income, which isn’t reflected in the household income stats you refer to.
Additionally, Monroe and Orange County are rural New York areas that are not majority Orthodox Jewish. So taking the rural county figures and comparing them to national figures is not comparing Orthodox Jews to others. Those figures you cite bear no relevance to this discussion.
Marxist: So what? No one’s disagreeing with the concept. But if a 40 year old well-to-do artisan hippie living in Park Slope, earning $70,000 a year with his stud girlfriend earning $50,000 a year, with no kids, are considered upper middle class with their high educations with his Ph.D in Anthropology And Archeology and her Master’s in Culinary Arts, whereas the Chosid with his Satmar education earning $80,000 is deemed by Uncle Sam to be impoverished, it proves exactly what? That if the Satmar Chosid had aced the SAT and gotten his Bachelor’s and Master’s in Philosophy from Columbia University, that he would be earning at least as much as that artisian hippie from Park Slope — with the Chosid, by then expressing his artisian talents and a framed degree behind his desk, to match the hippie would take a $10,000 pay-cut?
The government isn’t the answer; the government is the problem.
Dofi, a family of two parents and ten children earning over $80,000 a year is considered “impoverished” under federal entitlement benefits guidelines. In New York a family of that size, depending on their exact income, can potentially receive over $30,000 a year in Food Stamps/SNAP benefits.
Now you’re next door neighbor goy, who you like better than your fellow Yidden who don’t share your left-wing religious views, who lives with his girlfriend and dog, would be considered upper middle class with an annual income even lower than the $80,000 that Chasidish family with ten kids is earning.
So when your favorite antisemites are ranting in your local antisemitic newspaper like the New York Times or the Rockland Herald Record/Journal News, about those terrible “Jews” of Kiryas Yoel having high SNAP benefits enrollment in their population, that is because unlike the goyim you like with their dog and girlfriend earning less than the Chosid but doesn’t qualify for Food Stamps based on their tiny family size (1.2 children, dog not counted); whereas the Chosid with the higher income than him is deemed impoverished by the government based on his family size.
They qualify for food stamps and Medicaid despite earning high incomes because their large family sizes, with so many children k”h, means they technically qualify for government entitlement benefits since they are legally deemed “impoverished” based on family size, despite a large income.
Zushy, what I don’t understand, and perhaps you or others can explain, is that the Chareidi parties of UTJ and Shas have been in almost every Netanyahu government. And Netanyahu has been running the Israeli government for the last 11 straight years, except for about one year.
With the Chareidi parties part of the Netanyahu governments, why haven’t the Chareidi parties have gotten all those issues you mentioned above fixed under Netanyahu?
And if they haven’t, why do they keep supporting and joining Netanyahu?
Zushy: The Zionist government admits hundreds of thousands of Russian goyim, Ethiopian goyim and other goyim. Many many of them undergo a fake Zionist “geirus”, after which they never keep a single Shabbos and never intended to, thus remaining goyim but now permitted by the Zionist rabbis to marry real Jews.
Dofi: I’m concerned over your well-being and am hoping you’re feeling psychically okay. Firstly, my previous posts never said any such thing or anything close to it; secondly, I’ve never made any mention or reference to HaRav Chaim Kanievsky zt’l, not here and not previously; thirdly and most importantly, you haven’t referenced my three wives and eighteen children in almost six months, whereas in the past you were sure to inquire about them at least once every three days. (Sorry, have to run; mom’s calling me out of the basement. Looks like four of the kids are ganging up on two of the younger ones. Might have to drop one off at the CTL compound.)
My response is that I have one garbage can that everything goes into. I’ve never recycled.
Dofi: I’ve addressed the three shvuos extensively elsewhere on this forum. Please search the old threads on that topic. Your question was answered numerous times.
Yseribus: You’re mistaken. We’re talking about that MO OTD rate of those who grew up keeping Shabbos and Kashrus and later, while teenagers and young adults, stopped keeping Shabbos and Kashrus.
Read the articles I referenced above in previous comments.
The Ran in Nedarim clearly paskens that Dina Dmalchusa doesn’t apply in Eretz Yisroel. The Ran writes Jews aren’t Halachicly obligated to pay taxes imposed by the rulers in Eretz Yisroel and that Dina Dmalchusa in general is Halachicly inapplicable in Eretz Yisroel.