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Actually, werent we saved from metzraim because we dressed “differently” from them?
Do you wear suits and ties?
In other words, we’re not (as I’m reading the discussion) discussing this from a Chukas HaGoyim counterpoint (since, otherwise, suits and ties would have to fall into the same discussion) but rather from a “what does this indicate about the person?” perspective.
And nonetheless, I *highly* doubt your average farmer, milkman, blacksmith back in the day worked in good slacks. They wore the functional equivalent of jeans today — clothes that were sturdy, comfortable to do physical labor in, and not fancy or overly nice – and I’ll bet they wore them even if their non-Jewish counterparts wore the same type of clothing.
The Wolf
Please define “askan.” What, specifically, are you looking to accomplish?
The Wolf
No bubby will name herself “chayav inish” or any other gemarah name.
You never know. I knew a woman who finished shas (Bavli) three times.
The Wolf
*Sigh*
The place I got married in was torn down and replaced by condominiums. 🙁
The Wolf
Fine.
Your clothing (unless the clothing is a religious article) does not make you any more or less religious. Your performance of the mitzvos (and the degree to which you perform them) makes you more or less religious. To my understanding, there is no mitzva in the Torah to wear Jeans, not wear Jeans, wear a streimel, a kapata, to not wear them, etc. As such, whether or not you wear these objects does not make you more or less religious.
Certain groups may have varying customs with regard to dress, but that’s a separate issue — no one would argue that the yeshivish crowd is “less religious” than the chassidic crowd because they wear different clothing, right? You might infer membership in a group based on clothing, but it does not (and cannot) identify your degree of religiousness.
Personally, I think we’ve all become spoiled in this regard living in modern (no pun intended) urban settings and largely holding office jobs. I’d bet dollars to donuts that when we held largely agricultural and craft jobs, we wore the cultural equivalent of jeans day in and day out — no matter how religious you were.
The Wolf
automatically think the person is more modern (I guess you can say less religious in their eyes)
In what way does “modern” mean less religious. You’re using a computer to type these posts. I presume you have no problem using automobiles, CD players (assuming kosher content, of course), microwave ovens, GPS devices or cellular telephones (with or without texting, internet, etc.).
Does the use of these of these “modern” devices make one “modern?” And, if not, what is it that is “modern” about those whom you perceive to be less religious (and how do you define “less religious”)?
I’m not trying to put you “on the spot,” Miamigirl, but I really would like to have these terms defined… at least as you perceive them (since you were the one who asked the question).
So if there is a girl/guy that wears jeans, should this stop a shidduch from continuing because its not the standard of a religious person even though some do?
That’s a completely different question than asking if something is wrong with it. There are perfectly legitimate reasons to not continue with a shidduch even for things that are perfectly moral and otherwise acceptable.
The Wolf
Implicit in your title and question is the idea that modern=wrong.
Please define “modern” and then we can begin to analyze the question.
The Wolf
Is it inappropriate for children to call their uncles and aunts solely by their first name (similar to how it is inappropriate for children to call their grandparents by their first name)?
I believe it depends on numerous factors, including the relative age difference. I know someone who is older than his uncle by a few months and think it’s perfectly okay that he calls his uncle by his first name alone.
The Wolf
Uncle’s & Aunt’s
My youngest aunt is only nine years older than I am. I have always called her “Aunt_____.”* That went for my great-aunts and uncles as well.
Likewise, my kids call their aunts and uncles such (although all their aunts/uncles were already adults or near-adults by the time they were born).
The Wolf
* And, yes, we weren’t frum at the time.
no one mentions grandma to the wolf anymore, not after that unfortunate incident with the girl in the red hood.
🙂
The Wolf
Wolf: When they talk to you about “Grandma”, how do you know which grandma or great-grandma they are speaking of?
Very simple: They are called Grandma (first name) or Bubby (first name). That’s how they all wanted to be called by their grandkids/great-grandkids (and, yes, we asked their input). This goes for all their grandparents, great-grandparents and my stepmother.
The Wolf
who remembers Trainer studios from the 70’s.
Is that a question (and you simply forgot the question mark) or is it a statement about yourself in the third person (given your username)?
The Wolf
What should the kinderlach call their elter zeida and bubbe’s? Simply Zeidy and Bubby? How will they differentiate between all the Elter Zeidy’s and the regular Zeidy’s?
Does it really matter?
FWIW, my kids refer to their great-grandmothers as “Grandma” and have no problem differentiating them from their actual grandmothers.
The Wolf
i know someone who’s going to be going out with someone again after a 2 yr break. just wondering if anyone who’s had this experience and has any tips of how to break off the awkardness.
If you are not one of the two parties and they are otherwise competent adults, why are you working to “break off the awkwardness?” Why is it your business? Let them be.
The Wolf
My father and his wife are currently in their third marriage each. They have now been married for over 25 years… longer than any of their previous marriages and they are truly happy together.
Yes, my one example does not constitute statistical evidence, but it does show that even third marriages *can* work when the couple are right for each other.
The Wolf
Then again, if they do marry at 15, they could study for the Regents together!
I know that you’re probably joking in this, but, in reality, if a “kid” marries at fifteen, they will probably no longer be welcome in their school. In other words, in addition to being married, she will also likely end up uneducated.
For me, the saddest part of the whole thing is the primary reason stated for the initiative — because they view girls as a financial burden and would like to “pawn them off” on someone else.
The Wolf
Does anyone knows where you can order a professional album using a CD? doesnt need a photographer, but a company photographers send to to create the albums, gold edge etc. Thank you
There are several services available for this sort of thing. Among the more popular are Shutterfly, Snapfish, Bay Photo, MyCanvas, Adorama (at Adoramapix.com) and probably many others. The prices on these services vary depending on how fancy and “professional” you want to get.
I’ve never made an album before, although I’m currently in the middle of making one for a friend (I shot their son’s bar mitzvah as a favor) and am probably going to use Shutterfly (strictly based on favorable reviews and cost). If I could afford fancier, I might go with Bay.
The Wolf
(While I’ve never had an album printed with Bay or Adorama, I have gotten large prints from them and been very happy with the quality and service from both.)
WolfishMusings…srsly.
Thank you for the kind words.
While I do like to indulge in photography, I’ve never done a wedding and would not want to take the responsibility for doing so at this time. Perhaps after having worked several wedding as a second shooter, but not now.
The Wolf
Shameless plug for my photos:
http://picasaweb.google.com/WolfishMusings/WolfishMusingsPictures?feat=directlink
Hopefully, it’s going to Tomchai Shabbos, Masabia, or some other worthwhile cause, and not straight into the garbage.
Or possibly, the ba’alei simcha take some of it home too and eat for a few days.
The Wolf
i didnt ask a question
You’re right. I misread your statement. My apologies.
The Wolf (who obviously need a refresher course in punctuation).
its far more complicated than that.
i know
Then why’d you ask the question? 🙂
The Wolf
Personally, I’ve always favored the Sharks over the Jets. IMHO, Riff and Action were no match for Bernardo and Chino. 🙂
The Wolf
You say your kids go to school together. Does that concern you? Should you be exposing your kids to this sort of behavior?
I wouldn’t get into too much of an uproar about this* (WRT taking kids out of school). As long as her kids don’t eat by that parents’ house, I wouldn’t be too worried about “corrupting influences.” Can you guarantee that every parent in your kids’ classes always follows halacha in every detail? And if she does, can you guarantee her that a new institution will be better?
The Wolf
(*Notwithstanding the fact that these women must obviously be educated on the matter.)
Let me get this straight… they’re makpid on cholov yisroel, but have no issue with pizza cooked in an oven that, in all likelihood, cooked basar b’chalav?
The Wolf
Well, you learn something new every day. I was not aware that the letter was a hoax. Thanks for the info, Dr. Hall.
The Wolf
From a letter Martin Luther King Jr. wrote in 1967 (bolding mine):
“. . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist.’ And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God’s green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews–this is God’s own truth.
“Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.
“Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.
“The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested–DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.
“How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God’s promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land.
This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.
“And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism.
“The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just ‘anti-Zionist’!
“My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled–as others have been–into thinking you can be ‘anti-Zionist’ and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share.
Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews–make no mistake about it.”
Some people on this board may have theological oppositions to Zionism, but that is really irrelevant as far as this quote from Dr. King is concerned.
The Wolf
For the longest of times, I always told my kids I was 97. It’s still a running joke in our household.
A few years ago, on my birthday, they got me a cake with numeral candles. The candles were of the numbers 9, 7 and ?. 🙂
The Wolf
Whether or not it was a legitimate practice when it started, it is now expected (and has been for quite a while) that people will take food home from a bris.
I would think that as long as you are considerate of others (as Daas Yochid pointed out above) it’s not a problem (provided, of course, that the ba’alei simcha haven’t said otherwise).
The Wolf
There are no “rules,” about anything, and if there are for some, there shouldn’t be. Pearls in the Yichud room come to mind.
Well, I guess that invalidates my marriage. I gave her earrings. 🙂
The Wolf
Also, since order is not relevent, wouldn’t it be 187,578?
I guess so. I didn’t take that into account. I simply did (613^2)-613.
The Wolf
The proper answer to the question depends on various factors. As a result, I’m not sure that a comparison of answers really means anything.
For example, there are things that I know my father knows and are in his area of expertise. However, I also know that there are areas that he knows nothing about. Your father, however, may be somewhat knowledgeable in that area. There are certain question I wouldn’t be comfortable bringing to a friend, even if I know he’s an expert in that area. You may not feel that way. And on and on…
Whom I, personally, turn to for advise largely depends on the nature of the problem. For some problems, I turn to Eeees. For others, I turn to my parents. For yet others, I turn to rabbeim and yet others to friends and neighbors. The matrix of whom I turn to for what type of problem depends on numerous variables, include expertise in a particular area, general wisdom, trust and the degree of discretion involved in the query.
But keep in mind that that particular matrix applies to myself and ONLY myself. Your matrix of problems/advice givers may be very different. You may trust your rebbi more than your brother. Someone else may have the reverse. Neither is right or wrong… it’s all a matter of your perceptions, relationships and the experiences of yourself and the people in your life.
The Wolf
Well, as per my username, my nose is more like a snout…
The Wolf
We can keep this up for a while. There are 375,156 possible combinations…
The Wolf
Yes.
Sometimes it’s a moderator error. Sometimes it’s a disagreement about what is considered appropriate. Sometimes it’s a misunderstanding of what I wrote (or I wasn’t clear enough).
In short, it happens. Keep in mind that the mods are volunteers, so don’t go too hard on them.
The Wolf
I think we’re starting to see some CR McCarthyism. Anyone else think this witch hunt is getting a bit out of control?
Does anyone here remember the classic Twilight Zone episode “The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street?”
The Wolf
Matzah and Milah.
The Wolf
Wolf,
I hope you don’t mind, I’ve been borrowing your style of italicizing other posters’ quotes.
Why would I mind? I didn’t invent it. 🙂
BTW, you method of dealing with The Goq’s issue only works for someone who can stand for an entire davening.
Granted.
The Wolf
Shticky Guy,
You completely lost me with that post. Can you please simplify your question?
Thanks,
The Wolf
< muttering to self >
you’re all crazy I tell ya… you’re all crazy. Loony as all heck. Complete bunch o’ nutters. Looney, I tell ya, all looney…
< /muttering to self >
The Wolf 🙂
I can vouch that kapusta and wolfishmusings are two separate people
Do I know you in real life?
While I can vouch that we are two separate people, and so can Kapusta, I don’t see how you could do so unless you know who both of us are in real life.
The Wolf
Sorry Wolf. I started writing my post before yours came up. I wasn’t trying to steal your idea or anything.
Don’t apologize. You did well… and you expressed the idea far better than I did.
The Wolf
well people dont commonly name their daughters eeees
True, but her name is not truly Eeees… it’s simply a nickname I have for her. I don’t know of many people who would choose “Eeeew” as a nickname for a loved one.
The Wolf
Are you Wolf’s eys?
To the best of my knowledge… no.
My Eeees (again, to the best of my knowledge) has no intentions of moving to Canada.
The Wolf
For what its worth…. I thought it was.
Suuuuuuure…. go ahead and curry favor with the mods. 🙂
The Wolf
Yep. Sam said it much better than I.
The Wolf
I got it — but it’s not particularly funny because people don’t commonly give their kids similar sounding names.
The Wolf
Firstly, devarim she’b’leiv einum devarim, so if you manifest kiddushin it is irrelevant what you actually thought.
Secondly, if the couple was “assukin b’oso inyan” (of marriage), the gemara says we assume the money was given for kiddushin and accepted for kiddushin.
It’s also entirely possible that that’s the case only because that was the social convention at the time. As such, the bride and observers would have good reason to think the ring is being given for kiddushin.
Nowadays, however, the social convention is that everyone knows and understands that kiddushin takes place at the actual wedding itself. She knows it, he knows it and anyone observing it knows it. I still fail to see how it could be a kiddushin when neither party wants it to be one and neither party made any verbal declaration that it should be one.
The Wolf
What – no kesubah???
The lack of a kesubah does not invalidate the marriage, nor does it prevent one from taking place. If your kesubah gets lost, you are required to get a new one, but in the interim you are still 100% married.
Furthermore, a kesubah is only required from the nesuin onward. It is not required for kiddushin at all.
The Wolf
Do you speak French?
The Wolf