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Somejew should be modeh al ha emet , and state – there is a bona fide mahloket on this issue.
We were mekabel from our rebbeim what we believe in and others did not.
this ‘maximalist approach’ that EVERYONE holds like me, is false , and has been proven false.
when that happens , his arguments will be heard in a much more favorable way ….
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.katan :
Had the Zionists never invaded, the land would have presumably been ruled by the Christians, with individual religious councils for Jews and, liHavdil, Muslims, living peacefully in their respective areas as they did prior to the Zionist invasion.
—this is an excellent example of katans ignorance of world events
katan is still stuck in the 1800’s where colonial powers rule and indigenous populations still live ‘peacefully’ under their rule.
this is anachronistic.
we live in the 2000’s and solutions from the 1800’s are a total joke.
I challenge katan with one example of Britain ruling any country around the globe with the population of that country practicing a different religion and with a totally different culture …
Nu mr katan … we are waiting for your answer ….
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.Blame for the past is totally irrelevant .
We should decide for the future , based on the cold facts on the ground as they present now, without fear or favor.
Without being bribed by our own previous allegiances .
There is much too much at stake , we cannot afford the luxury to indulge into saying “see I was right all this time”.
We have to closely observe the going-on’s in this part of the world and learn from them .
And since pikuach nefesh is docheh any issur besides the three , we will have to base our decisions on those cold facts.
.
.sorry there was a typo in the previous post
will resend the corrected version:
another unanswered question directed at somejew katan and ujm
how come you paskan lema’aseh like maharal that pikuach nefesh is NOT docheh the oaths , when
tur ,plus
sh’a YD 157:1, plus
nosei keilimclearly paskan the opposite ?
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.To summarize
according to katan, ujm, somejew and the literal reading of vayoel moshe –
even if the whole medina would be fully haredi and the hafets hayim himself would be PM , it would be yehareig ve’al yaavor to join the fully haredi IDF because it still would classify as an army of shmad
and therefore, when faced with a binary choice of
either chv’sh the wholesale slaughter of all inhabitants of EY versus enlistment ,
they would choose the formeraccording to the majority of talmidei hahamim –
joining ,in that case, would constitute a mitsva of hatsalat nefashot.
the oaths are mechayev everone is undisputed ???
undisputed ???
.the israeli’s murdered one and half million unborn babies of their own since the medina’s founding .
the haredim did bh not murder their own babies , but worked hard to raise them even when stricken with poverty , at great mesirut nefesh, while the israeli’s feasted.
had the israeli’s not murdered , had the israeli’s not feasted , they would have plenty of manpower.
now, when the israeli’s claim that haredim do not carry ‘the burden’ … it rings a bit hollow to me ….—
the israeli’s came and initiated wars with the arabs in order to establish their medina , they did not come and ask the haredim what they think .
they created facts on the ground on their own .
do they have the moral right to accuse haredim of neglecting to ‘carry the burden’ ?
I doubt they do ….—
I have seen those deferring and their lifestyle from close up. they live on practically nothing , they live with nothing , rear their children to be happy with nothing and their youth grows up totally crime free .
for example , bnei brak a city of close to 200.000 people did not have a police station for many long decades .
israel’s justice system did not have to deal with haredi violent criminals since the states founding
are there some social imbalances resulting from the coerced army melting pot ? yes
is the system perfect ? no
can we accuse those mesirut nefesh people of neglecting to ‘carry the burden’ ? has veshalom .
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.@katan
.Steipler clearly permitted maintaining the “State” once it was established; that is a fact clearly stated in karyaneh de’igrata vol 1 ,this has nothing at all to do with r shacter .
read it yourself in karyana de’igrata.
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robot katan repeats the same fallacy again and again as if it becomes any more true by its repetition
his mantra is : “It doesn’t matter which country of Esav rules the land, so long as it’s done right …. And if they rule that land, then they would treat it like any other land, and protect the inhabitants of that land, as they do in their lands and territories today.”
robot katan apparently does not realize that he calls his own trustworthiness in to question
robot katan would never rely on this type of robot thinking if the question at hand would be katan’s own little daughter undergoing major surgery
would he rely on such obvious lazy thinking , same as he himself employed when the question of pikuach nefesh of millions of his own sisters and brothers are at stake ?
for sure not .
so the q is : why does he rely on such crap when pikuach nefesh of his own brothers and sisters are at stake ????
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Katan and somejew clearly said that Jews should allow themselves to be slaughtered, R”L L”A. Of course.
They stated unambiguously that IDF’s actions should be stopped immediately and that this is yehareig veal yaavor .
translated to good plain English : even if innocent people would die as result of IDF stopping to act , they should still stop.
katan and somejew did not put a number on those people dying , so it follows that even if all yehudim in EY would die as a result, IDF should still stop.
after a lot of pressure, the source of such a far reaching psak was unveiled : it is a peirush of maharal in his agadic sefer netsach yisrael perek 24.
however what somejew and katan have failed to do , even after a lot of pressure , is to explain why they choose to paskan like mharal in pikuach nefesh hachamura , when said agadic maharal is CONTRADICTED by tur, sh’a and nosei keilim in YD 157:1
who state that for all averot, besides the three hamurot , a Jew is not to sacrifice any Jewish life.
meaning that pikuach nefesh is docheh all other averot , including the [so called] avera of the oaths
this has been repeated on these pages multiple times but without any answer ….
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.Bottom line
it is incorrect and plain false, to state that it is INDISPUTABLE that the oaths are halachically in force .
it is very much in dispute as avnei nezer very clearly says that the oaths are not binding on anyone.
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..
only a fool can continue to claim that the fact that the oaths are binding lehalacha lema’aseh, is undisputed …..
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.@AAQ
> It was the unelected SC which illegally nullified this law. There have no legal power to nullify laws.
we do need that important word – unelected .
since the state of Israel was founded as a democracy where power lies with the people
the word unelected here means that the SC do not derive their power directly from the people
only from the law , which in turn derives its power from the people
the SC cannot use their power which they received from the people in a limited fashion i.e. to interpret the law and never to invalidate laws, and then go, on their own initiative, extend their own power without any base in existing law , and invalidate new laws passed by the source of power , the people themselves.
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.Litvish do not have a ‘problem’ with lubavitch .
it official habad , who are claiming outlandish claims .
official habad meaning their leader himself
like nevu’a
like mashiach
like belittling chazon ish [purim 1956]
and the list goes on
you cannot come with major claims and then expect immunity from scrutiny
this is obvious
the scrutiny is proportionate to the claim
the bigger the claim the bigger the scrutiny
and the scrutiny is applicable to the source of the claim
the leader makes the claim
so the leader is opening himself up to scrutiny
its a package deal
they cannot have the cake and also eat it
although I generally concur with yakov yosef in most cases , here I disagree
.
.@return again
not much hope for torah in EY lately – what’s with the sad relentless redifot of bnei yeshiva there ??
doesn’t bode any good … cannot see a way out ….
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.another unanswered question directed at somejew katan and ujm
how come you paskan lema’aseh like maharal that pikuach nefesh is docheh the oaths , when
tur ,plus
sh’a YD 157:1, plus
nosei keilimclearly paskan the opposite ?
.
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.another question left unanswered by somejew :
you claim that no man made hishtadlut is to be made even by mashiach to bring the ge’oula
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then how could r akiva and the rambam consider ben kochba as mashiach ?he was ruled out only when he died
he should have been ruled out straight away — on the grounds of his man made attempts to bring the ge’oula ???
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Shma minah that the ge’oula can come via man made efforts ?
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.it’s impossible that you smell other people’s dishonesty when you yourself are enveloped by the smell of your own dishonesty.
smelly people cannot smell other people.
—you do not know me at all – how could you state that I don’t care about what sh’a and avnei nezer say .
that statement of yours is obviously as unfounded as all of your other statements and interpretations of the torah
and as unfounded as your interpretations of the reality in front of us , which is essential in every other she’ela in the torah .
someone who does not know how a new appliance works, is totally unqualified to rule on its permissibility for shabbat even if he knows hilchot shabbat ba’al peh.
same here .
—
Lol.
you yourself mr somejew vehemently argued that hashmatat tur , hasmatat mishneh torah , hashmatat sh’a , hasmatat nosei keilim does not count ….yet hashmatat rabbanim who do not quote avnei nezer suddenly does count …
who exactly in your opinion should bring avnei nezer and did not ?
Rav shlome zalman auerbach ?
who is documented directing specific individuals in specific circumstances to enlist ?
who took rav kooks haskama for his sefer maadanei erets and put it before rav zonnefelds haskama ?
he should have quoted avnei nezer ? and since he doesn’t, its proof that he disagrees ?the rebbeim of gur who are known to be noheg lemaaseh like avnei nezer the gdol haposkim in poland , they should have quoted him ? and since they don’t, its proof that they disagree ?
or rav elyashiv whose mesader kidushin was rav kook and was known to be mocheh whenever someone spoke disparagingly about him , he should have quoted avnei nezer ? and since he doesn’t, its proof that he disagrees ?
listen, I am not a hasid of rav kook and I do not learn his agada sfarim , and I agree that he was controversial and understand the hitnagdut against him
but b’h I am not that narrowminded to totally deny the existence of approaches I disagree withavnei nezer wrote what he wrote .
avnei nezer cannot somehow be dismissed .
avnei nezer was bothered by hashmatat haposkimif somejew doesnt like it , then he should grow up.
are there holkim on avnei nezer ? yes.
is avnei nezer therefore batel umevutal ? no.
cant see what’s so difficult , that somejew has to start with personal accusations and all sorts of dirty intimidations of kfira , biters of talmidei hahamim etc etc
somejew should keep his arguments to the matter at hand .
he will do his own reputation a service .
.
..
katan :
The questions are not questions, but they were answered many times.Nobody ever said that Jews should allow themselves to be slaughtered, R”L L”A. Of course not. And the Zionist army is an absolute non-starter. Those two facts do not contradict each other in the slightest, as mentioned many times before.
—
lol.
katan – robot claims that “Those two facts do not contradict each other in the slightest,”but consistently fails to explain what will happen when the idf lays down its weapons …
we asked a few pointed questions he REFUSES to answer
for example
1] specifying exactly which country will take over
2] what that country plans to do when threats arise to the yidden , and
3] how many dead soldiers are they are willing to absorb before they will withdraw , and
4] what the situation will be after their withdrawal …
in a REALISTIC manner – not even one percent less realistic than ‘katan robot’ himself would expect a doctor to answer him if his own little daughter would have to undergo major surgery ….
these are serious questions which deserve serious answers …
not ‘robot like platitudes’ like “giving the land to esav”
in case there are no serious answers forthcoming , we can take it as a sure sign that for katan robot , those pikuach nefesh concerns are not serious concerns at all …
probably because , as mentioned , according to those literal hasidim of vayoel moshe , like katan and somejew , who ignore clear psakim of shulhan aruch,
those pikuach nefesh concerns do not really exist at all
because , as mentioned, according to their krumme shitah , when faced a binary choice between certain mass death vs fighting in the ranks of a fully frum idf , they would prefer certain mass death.
so memeila there are no pikuach nefesh concerns at all anyhow .
so memeila there is no imperative to find pikuach nefesh solutions
whatever will happen , let it happen anyway ….
thats their thinking .
al hatsad there are no serious answers to the four questions above ….
holding my breath … for the four serious answers … which might disprove my theory mentioned above ….
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.@ katan
I have quoted it on this thread before .
FYI. will quote it again :
I promised a quote from AVNEI NEZER that oaths are not lhalacha .
Here we go :
AVNEI NEZER YD siman taf nun dalet from se’if katan mem dalet and onwards [pages 287 – 288 – 289]in more detail se’if katan nun :
‘ … and now it is good and not questionable why rambam [in his halacha sefer mishneh torah] and all poskim did not bring the oaths lahalacha , because those oaths are not lehalacha , because the person himself his body was not commanded to keep the oaths … thats why the poskim did not bring the oaths’
in short – shitat avnei nezer is that the oaths were said to the shoresh neshama , not to the guf .
so they are not obligatory lehalacha.
the guf, if it would be close to the neshama , which is close to HKBH , would instinctively follow the oaths .
and then merit special close hashgacha from HKBH.
if for whatever reason the guf does not follow the oaths , that’s a SIGN that the guf is not close and not in sync with its neshama .
therefore the guf loses its special merit for hashgacha pratit and reverses to a lesser level called hashgacha klalit.
but this is clear according to AVNEI NEZER – there is no halachik obligation whatsoever resulting from the oaths
and it is equally clear from his words
that this is the reason none of the accepted halacha sefarim mention the oaths
ad kan the summary of divrei ,the gdol haposkim AVNEI NEZER zatsal.
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.somejew is stubbornly refusing to learn avnei nezer and pashtut of sh ‘a and poskim [as noted by avnei nezer himself] that the oaths are not binding , just an indication of the persons general avodat hashem
somejew is stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the pikuach nefesh which will result in any of his ‘realistic’ options of governing EY
those refusals are obvious to any bystander
Question is , why he is refusing to acknowledge those plain realities in front of his nose ?
the answer is and must be one and only one
he is biased towards the shitah hakdosha , not to the shitah hakdosha itself
but a to a literal reading of the shitah hakdosha
which distorts and blinds him to plain realities right in front of him .
So, we are left to wonder – if he is blinded to the plain visible reality
what hope can we have that somejew should quote and interpret chazal correctly ?
.
.
..
Again sidestepping by katan .
I will reframe the q .
—eliyahu hanavi promises that this person will not be shmadded .
Is it mutar for this particular person to join or not , and why ?
.AAQ
Arguments are responding to reality. Obvious .
Reality is shifting . So arguments which are a response , are obviously shifting too.
Simple.
.To Katan:
You can make up whatever stories you want, you can even make poskim like shulhan aruch and avnei nezer totally disappear .
The IDF is shmad for the people actually smadded and the people liable to be shmadded. For the other people it is not shmad.
So for the other people it is mutar.In addition , the issues of the three oaths are not applicable to the IDF as it is clear as day to anyone to whom reality matters one bit, that IDF laying down its weapons , is chvsh a death sentence for untold number of our own brothers.
Therefore we can summarize that the so called Zionist army is , besides osek in the hatzala of klal yisrael , is also osek in three of the inviolable prohibitions: idolatry, immorality and spilling blood – and shmad
And your nonsense about the oaths is just that. The major Poskim throughout the ages, like tur shulhan aruch and nosei keilim, have ruled that the oaths are not in force, because they learnt the relevant gemara like avnei nezer.
The oaths are clearly not in force halachically , which is why the overwhelming majority of haredi talmidei hahamim clearly act that way .
.
.somejew to yb:
.I’ve been debating if it’s permitted for me to respond to your earlier question, because I can’t figure out if your just a well meaning am hauretz who can’t read or a insincere masis iadiach ready to deface the Torah to defend your zionist god.
—surprise here, mr somejew :
its neither , not a mesit chvsh , nor an amhaurets who cannot readjust
a sincere jew , ready to defend the torah from being grotesquely distorted by people like you , in order to defend innocent lives , threatened by misinformation and deceit.
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.RSZ’A’s advice that this person should enlist is well known .
Letsorech that person’s high profile leadership of this haredi organisation RSZA told him to enlist.this was not advice for rabim , only privately to that person who asked .
but to be over on an issur which is yehareig ve’al yaavor , even as advice in a private manner , it still remains an absolute no no.
RSZA clearly was of the opinion that serving in idf [then !] is not a clear issur
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.katan reminds me of a robot pre programmed by some satmar guy …
..
somejew responds to all types of people on these pageshe is not bodek whether they are amharatsim or meisitim
but when he is confronted with mechaber and nosei keilim who write bepashtut not like him, then
suddenly he becomes ‘hesitant to respond’ ….
—
sh’a YD 157 : 1
All averot besides the three , [if betsin’a] he should transgress and not die [because pikuach nefesh is docheh the the avera] .according to maharal, pikuach nefesh is not docheh the shavu’ot .
that was the reason somejew paskaned that fighting in idf is forbidden even if as a result of not fighting, it’s sure that yehudim will die chv’sh.
Sh’a who says p/n is docheh shavu’ot , CONTRADICTS maharal .
Simple.
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@AAQ
what happened to them ?
they are clear haredi and are wellknown leaders of haredi hesed organisations
.
Ah , according to somejew I am either a meisit or an am haarets
Why ?
Because I dare to give voice to established haredi non satmar rabbanim and talmidei hahamim.
Who happen to be the majority of klal yisrael.
I hope somejew doesnt consider them a meisit or an a’h ….
I have been called by somejew : a kofer , a biter of t’ch , and some other nice ‘compliments’ … .
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.@aaq
I repeat :
draft for haredim was duly legislated and appeared on the books . It was the unelected SC which illegally nullified this law. There have no legal power to nullify laws. Which created the current anarchy.
It is clear that the SC has no legal power , not deriving from a constitution , not from any vote in the knesset , to invalidate any law .
I challenge anyone to find any source from any law or decision in the knesset that SC is empowered to invalidate a law , voted on by a majority in the knesset .
The SC illegally arrogated this power for themselves.
Bottom line – the Tal law is still in force . So, according to Israeli law, bney yeshiva are legally deferring their service.
Period.
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.As usual , somejew and katan are taking rightful causes, blow them up , distort them , and then claim that their corrupted one is the only version of Judaism around.
The fight with z is a valid one .
The portrayal of z as if it were xtianity is nothing more than a grotesque distortion of Judaism.
Somejew and katan are USING righteous and valid grievances in order to do some convenient soul snatching …..
.square root is totally off here.
no one should go the army in order to become a b’t
that’s the craziest thing I have ever heard
all gdolei yisrael prohibited for our yeshiva boys to enlist
thats enough
we do not need chazal to back them up
and even two hundred lazer brody’s
and five hundred artscroll quotes
are not going to make even one dent
they should not enlist
period.
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.@qwerty
its possible that even rambam will agree as maybe its nature will change and start to regurgitate its foodWe have to remember all the questions somejew and katan did not answer
the tur and sh’a and nosei keilim YD 156 , clearly contradicting their far fetched psak allegedly relying [or blaming ?] on mharal , mandating millions of jews to let themselves be slaughtered ch’v , october 7 style , rather than defending themselves and their families
their total and despicable irresponsibility for hiding behind indefensible platitudes , like ‘giving the land to esav’ without following up in –
specifying exactly which country ,
what that country plans to do when threats arise to the yidden , and
how many dead soldiers are they are willing to absorb before they will withdraw , and
what the situation will be after their withdrawal …their huge leap from [even leshitatam] maharal who is talking about establishing a medina vs
our situation which is only maintaining an existing medina recognized by the overwhelming majority of nations
a distinction clearly approved by steipler in karyaneh de’igrata vol 1their total lack of massa umatan kedarka shel torah as practised in all , even so called minor questions , through the generations , their mehirut nora’a bechamurim shebechamurim [if they would not dress like haredim and act like haredim in other areas , one could suspect them to be members of Open Orthodoxy]
Shomu shamayim ….we mentally fall prey to their bully language accusing their opponents of kfira on every second step , but when we stop and think , we realize the tremendous weakness in their arguments …
.thanks
Summary
I personally know people who were advised by r shlome zalman auerbach to enlist .
They weren’t young and they were married.Is that any indication towards enlistment of young bachurim ?
Definitely not.
RSZ’A is on public record against the enlistment of yeshiva bachurim.But – did RSZ’A consider enlistment as a blanket issur ,in force even when there is no chashash of losing one’s religion ?
clearly not .
Obvious that RSZ’A did not consider service in the IDF as a blanket yehareig veal ya’avor due to the oaths.
.
.@aaq
draft for haredim was duly legislated and appeared on the books .
It was the unelected SC which illegally nullified this law.
There have no legal power to nullify laws.
Which created the current anarchy.
.Regarding your points:
It makes no practical difference if the Tur does or does not bring that Maharal. He doesn’t rule against the Maharal. And we still know very clearly, from poskim throughout the ages and from the terrible instances of destruction of Jews like harugei beithar, that the three oaths are G-d’s will and very much in effect.===
It makes a HUGE practical difference whether maharal is CONTRADICTED by tur , sh’a and nosei keilim.
In all areas of halacha , in all Jewish communities , during all generations , we knew that halacha is like those poskim – tur , sh’a and nosei keilim.
Satmar , and katan is mindlessly repeating here, seem to hold opposite.
Tur , sh’a and nosei keilim in YD 156 are clearly CONTRADICTING maharal . They clearly state that that all mitsvot besides for the three hamurot , including the oaths , is yaavor veal yiehareig.
.
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Besides that, there is another important point- maharal is NOT talking about defending an existing malhut.Maharal talks about CREATING a malhut.
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—katan to yb :
No, Zionist idolatry is the result of a disconnection from G-d. The medrash states explicitly that harugei beithar was due to their having violated the oaths. Don’t be a kofer.
—lol.
AVNEI NEZER clearly explains that medrash that harugei betar was due to disconnection to the rbsh’o , symptomatic by rebelling against the oaths.
That’s like saying chv’sh to moraini AVNEI NEZER – dont be a kofer ….—
Bottom line – you
argue against clear sh’a ,
subsequently are mafkir damam shel yisrael and on top of that
accuse gdolei yisrael of kfira …
.
Come down from the “universe judging pedestal” you climbed onand think again about what you wrote.
.katan to yb :
The clear reality of what the Middle East is now, if anything, provides more opportunity than in the past for the Zionist “State” to be handed over to Esav, or some other solution, that does not involve loss of anything other than that idol and its numerous problems and astronomical waste of money.—
again lol.
Am debating whether you yourself believe the total crap you have written here .
.
1] sh’ a OC 329 mandates yotsin aleihen bikli zayin ,meaning
you go and fight them with weapons.
2] sh’a YD 156 clearly states that any other avera besides the three hamurot , meaning
all other averot [including supposed oaths] yaavor veal yehareig , because pikuach nefesh is doche all issurim , meaning
you go, fight and save lives
not like maharal often quoted by satmar
not like this HUGE HIDDUSH that all of the millions of innocent people in EY ,are required to die rather than defend themselves
3] supposed issur of oaths are never mentioned anywhere in sh’a , not in OC , not in YD , not in EH, and not in CM., meaning
there is no issur to fight in the first place
Three clear proofs that sh’a plus rama plus all nosei keilim rule not like maharal [which is anyway mentioned in a non halachik sefer]
in what other area in the torah do we rule like a non halachik sefer against the established pillars of halacha ?
why is this area any different to any other ?
this is not a hashkafic question – this is a clear halachik question in hilchot pikuach nefesh
.
ujm , somjew and katan are owing still….
they have not responded to –
how three times tur mehaber plus nosei keilim are subservient in halacha lemaaseh to maharal not brought anywhere lehalachathey have not responded to –
clear blame for terrible happenings ,like harugei betar, is due to the disconnection from the rbsh’o , instead of on the oaths, according to avnei nezer and by extension, all standard halacha sefarim like sh’a and nosei keilim , AS DULY NOTED BY AVNEI NEZER himselfthey have not responded to –
the clear reality in front of us in the middle east AS IT IS NOW , not as it supposedly was once, and without any dishonest sidestepping and totally irrelevant blame game how things could or should have beenthey have not responded to –
the factual and clear evidence that many people served in IDF without being shmadded and why that should not be taken into account when deliberating in one particular case where this individual’s refusal to show up , will have pikuach nefesh repercussionsthey have not responded to –
clear evidence that the majority of haredei talmidei hahamim and tsadiqim, totally rejected their singular focus on historical transgressions of the oaths [according to the holkim on avnei nezer] as the source of all evilthey have not responded to –
the obvious reality , clear to any astute ten year old , that the majority of talmidei hahamim for the last eighty years , by their PASSIVE non participation in the demonization of the State per se, EVEN IF IT WERE TOTALLY FRUM , disagree [with this satmar obsession equating zionism to xtianity]they have not responded to –
the implicit charge to why they think that they understandtorah ,
reality, and
torahs application to said reality,
better than all aforementioned t’ch and tsadiqim
—
in summary they have a lot to respond to which they did not do yet
we will see whether we will be zoche to receive TO THE POINT , HONEST and FULL responses without sidestepping
.
.
.lol.
rav dessler wrote it
and therefore in his opinion it is not kfira
and guess what everyone knows how close rav dessler was with the person you quote so much … the chazon ish
and how much chazon ish respected rav dessler
in chazon ish’s opinion rav dessler was definitely not a kofer
doesn’t have to be that chazon ish necessarily agreed to everything rav dessler said
but that is THE MAIN POINT of this story
you can disagree with someone and still respect him and his opinions as part of the wide ranging torah haskafa
which somejew ujm and katan apparently can’t
.Have not heard from somejew and katan yet ….
We are waiting …
What we are in the midst of now in the Holy Land is difficult to describe as “the beginning of the Redemption” (atchalta d’Geulah) but
it certainly represents great kindness.
[We have gone] from one extreme to the other—
from the extreme of suffering, the destruction of six million of our brethren, to
the opposite extreme—the settling of our people in our state in the Holy Land . . . .
Woe unto he who comes to judgment and is still so blind so as not to see something as clear as this
(Michtav Me’Eliyahu, vol. 3, p. 352).
.1) there is a psak din signed by many rabbamim including non chabad rabbamim, that the rebbe is a navi. I didn’t learn the whole sugya beiyun to paskin myself
latest claim by sechel
—Sechel is 6 months wrong here
we are in chodesh av , not in Adargood purim joke – non habad rabanim ????
names and positions please ….
.Nu
where are somejew and katan ?
they supposedly are proclaiming the ONLY TRUE explanations in the torah
the only true assessments of the reality in front of us NOW
and the only true way of applying their own torah explanations to their own version of reality facing us
and on top of that accusing the people challenging them as
amharatsim
biters of talmidei hahamim
kofrim
and any other sundry compliments
—
they have not responded to
how three times tur mehaber plus nosei keilim are subservient in halacha lemaaseh to maharal not brought anywhere lehalachathey have not responded to
clear blame to be put at the disconnection from the rbsh’o , instead of on the oaths, according to avnei nezer and by extension [because the OMISSION of the oaths] by all standard halacha sefarim like sh’a and nosei keilim , AS DULY NOTED BY AVNEI NEZER indicating like the abovethey have not responded to
the clear reality in front of us in the middle east AS IT IS NOW , not as it supposedly was once, and without any dishonest sidestepping and totally irrelevant blame game how things could or should have beenthey have not responded to
the factual and clear evidence that many people served in IDF without being shmadded and why that should not be taken into account when deliberating in one particular case where this individual’s refusal to show up , will have pikuach nefesh repercussionsthey have not responded to
clear evidence that the majority of haredei talmidei hahamim and tsadiqim, totally rejected their singular focus on historical transgressions of the oaths [according to the holkim on avnei nezer] as the source of all evilthey have not responded to
the implicit charge to why they think that they understandtorah ,
reality and
torahs application to said reality,better than all aforementioned t’ch and tsadiqim
—
in summary they have a lot to respond to which they did not do yet
we will see whether we will be zoche to receive TO THE POINT , HONEST and FULL responses
.
.I personally know many people who served in IDF and were not shmadded at all .
—nu mr katan
your answer to the previous post
someone who knows that he will not be shmadded
and its pikuach nefesh
lema’aseh
what should he do ?
plus the reasons ?
waiting for an HONEST and TO THE POINT answer
no sidestepping .
thanks
.