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Tznius.
“I think cutting down the gap is a very difficult thing to do.”
It doesn’t appear to be very difficult to do for the Chasidim.
One man’s bad humor are another man’s parody.
Now the girls are in the freezer.
The rabbonim who advocate closing the age gap came to advocate that only after askonim brought it to their attention. Perhaps those same askonim ought to petition the rabbonim to more forcefully dissuade couples from getting engaged if there’s an age gap?
DY: Wouldn’t public criticism of the concept (not the people) by rabbonim be helpful in discouraging and reducing the incidences of age gap marriages, thereby greatly alleviating the crisis?
Naftush II: The only thing the freezer is designed and aimed for is to keep young gentlemen focused on their Limud Torah rather than taking away from that endeavor by their engaging in shidduch involvement. There’s no other “human engineering” intended regarding introducing guys and gals to each other, that you seem to be referring to.
DY: Should communities shun those who marry a spouse with a notable age gap, due to the societal crisis such action causes? Or if not shun the individuals, at least be publicly very critical of the concept of marriages with a notable (what “notable” is would have to be defined) age gap.
If not, why not?
The Chareidi world has one of the smallest divorce rates of any society.
ubiq: Your math is bad. I would otherwise explain it to you if not for the fact that it’s been explained extensively here for years, so saying it one more time is certainly going to fall on deaf non-understanding ears.
Do they have such things outta town?
Syag, plus everyone has a zivug, a bashert, from 40 days before birth. So it cannot be that there’s even one Yid ever who cannot get married. Correct?
Whoever agrees that the age gap is a significant cause of a disparity resulting in a larger number of girls in shidduchim than boys, resulting in a constant percentage of girls being unable to ever marry, must by definition agree that to mostly or at least partially correct that crisis the following two steps will significantly help, if not they’re being absolutely critical to fix the problem:
1. Boys getting married notably younger than the current trend.
2. Boys marrying girls their own age, rather than an average of being three years older than their wife.
It seems apparent than both these steps could be much better accomplished, if not perhaps the only way to implement them on a consistent basis in the future, is for far more parental involvement in choosing shidduchim’s timeline (age) and partner (spouse).
“not everyone that goes through Lakewood can adapt outside of Lakewood”
CA: What does that mean?
“Anyhow, I looked it up. Apparently, trying to close the gap by focusing on the older girls didn’t make much if a dent, because for the most part, the boys are still marrying the younger girls.”
DY: Where did you glean this information?
The idea that either boys or girls are more unprepared for marriage than the opposite gender is, simply put, a bubbe maaisa.
Did you learn the Rambam?
ubiq: What’s beshows have to do with anything? How do you think shidduchim were made until World War I in Europe and in the Sephardic lands? It wasn’t boy meets girl, falls in love, gets married. It wasn’t even shadchan redts shidduch, couple goes on dates to local venues, decides whether to marry. No. For the most part from the time of the churban Beis HaMikdash until World War I the parents would make most of the decisions. Who their children could consider for marriage. And who their children will see. Then the the children would have a short meeting or two and if there were no major objections, and the children were quite young to even know any reason to object, it would be a Mazal Tov!
The goyim didn’t do things that much differently from that either.
Yes, there were a minute amount of exceptions, but for the vast amount of society that was more or less “the system”.
Once boys started picking and choosing, they picked usually girls as young as they could get and often frowned on anything older than they could otherwise get, even being disinclined to consider girls their own age.
The Rambam says Christianity is A”Z mamish. And Islam is not A”Z.
Last I checked Torah Judaism says Shemona Esrei L’Chuppa. And that’s the age to be married by, not the age to start thinking about marriage.
Trump is doing very well. The economy is doing well. The Russia investigation is a farce. He’s had a major accomplishment revamping America’s tax laws. He’s the best friend Jews have had in the Oval Office in well over a century.
I wonder if it is even possible to eliminate the age gap in a society where men choose which woman they will marry. After all, you’ll need to convince most men to choose to marry a somewhat older woman when they have the ability to choose a younger woman.
As opposed to a society where, for the most part, someone other than the couple choose who will marry who. Like by the Chasidim.
So the Litvaks are going to be stuck with the age gap, and its consequences, unless they virtually fully adopt the Chasidish dating/marriage model.
Klal Yisroel used to virtually across the board follow what’s today known as the Chasidish dating/marriage model until about a hundred or so years ago. In fact, almost all goyim did as well. The switch to the love/marriage/choose-your-own-girl model got us stuck with the age gap.
RY23, I was going to write that some people to do trade ins to prevent that from happening, but then I realized some folks would get offended by not seeing the humor in it.
It would help get people on board if you could somehow demonstrate in a compelling way that so very many more frum women remain single (never married) into their 40s and older than guys in the same age range.
Ari: That’s a load of bunk.
I hear your mehalech, Neville. I don’t disagree with it as I find it has a valid benefit. Indeed at one time I daydreamed about doing something similar. But, as a matter of principal, I could never allow myself to become a registered Democrat. And regarding the benefit of following your approach I decided it was rather very small. Since exceedingly rarely is a primary determined by a single vote. And even culmatively the number of folks doing what you do is very very small. It is less than a niche.
Neville: There’s no statistics for the Litvaks either. Statistics equally don’t exist for MO, Litvaks or Chasidim.
The population having a smaller growth rate may mean it isn’t as noticable, but proportionally it is equally as applicable.
Why in the world would you assume the MO might have a smaller age gap than the Litvaks? The MO date on their own; Litvaks through shadchanim. Guys picking their own girls will generally pick younger girls.
BTW, the age gap exists by the goyim too.
NC: Your point about marriage is at least as equally applicable about chinuch and parenting.
Neville: To which party are you registered when there’s no incumbent president running for re-election? Like in 2016.
Neville: Why do you assume there’s no average age gap in GHD’s community? Other than Chasidim, who generally make matches of the same age couples, all other communities have an average martial age gap. Including by the MO at least as much as by the Litvish.
“any Bais Yaakov Rebbetzin will out learn you (and me) in both Torah she’bal peh and b’ksav on any day.”
She’ll really outlearn you on even the very first blatt Gemorah in Mesechtes Brochos?
You missed class that day?
“I somehow don’t think a baas yisroel will confront a prosecutor in beis din shel maalah charged with learning talmud.”
She’ll be charged with tiflus.
The Gemora and Shulchan Aruch pasken it’s tiflus and prohibited to give classes teaching *any* Torah she’bal peh to girls.
Neville: You reregister to the opposing party of the president before re-election, every alternative cycle, in order to vote in their primary since the president’s party obviously won’t have a primary against the president? So in 2012 you were a registered Republican since the Democrats had no primary?
In most states you can only vote in the primary of your party.
His presidency needs no more saving than Bill Clinton’s presidency did. Notwithstanding all the absurd liberal media hype about its precariousness.
You mean, now, President-Elect Moishy.
“Do you prefer to register in such a way that you disenfranchise yourself just so that you can tout that you’re “a republican?””
4 out of the last 6 NYC mayoral elections were won by the Republican nominee and lost by the Democrat. What exactly are you disenfranchised from by being a registered Republican?