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Mazal Tov, Zaidy!
Manchester, England
Manchester Yeshiva
Boro Park.
It’s streets are vigorously energetic with festive jubilation concentrated virtually on every block.
You can find other places of vigorous Purim festivities but not as concentrated on block after block for the entire neighborhood.
Is Dr Pepper OU certified?
Talk about the Parsha.
Williamsburg and East New York (New Lots) were previously a village and town, respectively, in New York prior to being consolidated into the City of Brooklyn (which itself was later consumed into the City of New York.)
Even today they’re larger than many other villages and towns.
Because you’re a CR legend and hero, jphone. You’ve dedicated over seven years here enhancing the discussions with your valuable input with being one of the very first non-mod posters on the CR’s very first thread up until this very day and thread.
You should get a certificate of recognition signed by the editor and team of moderators.
BTW, can you enchant us on why the jphone moniker was retired?
And never forget what happens when you have jphone, squeak and Joseph in the same room!
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/should-the-cr-have-sports-threads/page/3#post-31495
Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY
Capital of Chasidishe world
New biggest bump:
Out Of The Mailbag: (Flatbush Kiddush: Tznius & Drinking Out Of Control)
First coffee room thread bumped by one of the coffee room’s first posters seven and a half years later.
Gamanit, where’d you get a ‘B’ from?
Mazal Tov, TQ!
squeak: can your cite some examples of what you’re referring to?
Rav Avigdor Miller said 99% of frum divorces were avoidable and unnecessary. That doesn’t disagree with the dayanim’s opinion I cited above.
East New York, Brooklyn, NY.
Former stronghold of the frum community.
I spoke to several of the dayanim who are involved in a large portion of the gittin in the frum community in the United States in the Heimish, Litvish and Chasidish communities. And they by consensus agreed that most gittin were avoidable and unnecessary, and that the vast majority of needless gittin were demanded by the women. And of the minority of gittin that were unavoidable, about a third were the mutual fault of both parties and a third were the fault of the husband and a third the wife.
writersoul: Both the Shulchan Aruch and Rambam pasken l’halacha that kol kevuda is a reason why women must mostly stay indoors.
Davos, Switzerland
World Economic Forum
You were doubly hypocritical. First you judged that “whole community” that their divorces were necessary despite outright opining that “no one can judge whether or not the divorce was necessary.” A direct contradiction. Secondly, it is senseless to claim that no one can judge whether or not the divorce was necessary but then yourself to judge not only was it necessary but for you to go a step further and also judge who is to blame for the divorce. And for a whole community, to boot. And you’ve determined based on one sided stories (apparently combined with that some of them remarried while their exes had not yet) that the guilt lies in “99%” of the cases with one particular side. Of the whole community.
As stated, various gedolim “judged”, on a communal basis, that very many divorces were senseless and could and should have been avoided.
As far as the statistics are concerned, anyone with at least one eye on shidduchim for remarriages can tell you that there are many more divorced women still waiting for a shidduch than divorced men still waiting. (This point is also likely the case in the secular world, which could be verified with marriage records stats.) Another little tidbit of statistics is that divorces are sought in about 75% of the cases by the wife, not the husband. That can be verified by available court records, various available academic analysis based on said records as well as by butei dinim. You might also be aware that al pi halacha a Get need only be given if the husband desires to divorce unless it is proven with evidence in beis din that he is guilty of one of the rare violations that al pi halacha mandates he give it. The correlation of the latter statistic with this halacha may not be coincidental.
And “the slice of the population that [you] happen to know”, aside from being anecdotal, is very unrepresentitive even if we make the stretch of assuming your assumptions and judgement is correct.
On your very first coffee room post in the beginning of this thread you seem dismissive that a drinking problem exists.
What a difference seven and a half years makes. Has it worsened?
Mazal Tov yichusdik upon becoming a choson!
Any way you slice and dice it, you hypocritically clearly judged a whole community even without necessitating mentioning them.
You also are disagreeing with Rav Shteinman, Rav Miller and other gedolei yisroel who did render a judgement on the tremendous amount of unnecessary and preventable divorces that have occurred in the frum community.
And if the barometer for your judgement is which ex-spouse remarried and which did not, be informed that in the “community” of divorcees the men tend to remarry quicker and the men remarry more often than the women (while the women are more likely than the men to never remarry.) This point can be confirmed by shadchanim dealing with divorcees. Using your criteria we apparently know who is to blame, don’t we. Unless, of course, you were rendering your judgement based on one sided stories. Considering you judged “99%” of the men of the “whole community” to be guilty, even prior to accounting who remarried and who not, that is most obvious.
The term and the claim of abuse is, as Yogi Berra used to say, greatly abused.
P.S. You opine that no one’s in a position to judge immediately after you harshly judged (based on, no less than, one sides story) a “whole community” of ex-husbands.
Thank you, Daas Yochid.
“I tried convincing her to make the best of the situation she was in and turn it around” is, as I said, an indication that “she had a troubled marriage.”
And why else do you think that Rav Shteinman retold this story to answer the question of “Why are there so many failed marriages today?”
Rav Shteinman said “I tried convincing her to make the best of the situation she was in and turn it around.” Obviously she had a troubled marriage before getting divorced.
And Rav Shteinman was retelling this story in order to encourage future couples considering divorce to avoid it.
Look at the bright side: It gives everyone something new to complain about that, while it may be controversial, puts everyone on the same anti-government side. 🙂
Health: He didn’t say it could be avoided by either spouse. It takes two to tango. And, indeed as you implied, often the fault for this point isn’t shared or equally shared. His point was that often the divorce could have been avoided, even while the sofer was still writing the Get, had both parties saw fit and worked to avoid it.
Syag: If you are referring to the story from Rav Shteinman that I related, I provided the entirety of the story as related in print by Rabbi Yair Hoffman. I also provided in which Sefer it can be found.
The quote provided Rav Shteinman’s full answer, so your stating it is out of context is not correct. And Rav Shteinman related the story of the advice he gave that woman, and her later regret at not accepting his advice to remain married, for the purpose of teaching us a moral lesson from it.
yichusdik: You are attributiong to me what I quoted gedolei yisroel as saying. It isn’t I who made those statements, it is they. Take it up with them. I am merely the messenger.
And furthermore you misunderstood what the gedolim said, as evidenced by your statements giving it a different context than they put it in.
And it was one of the Gedolei Yisroel that stated that 99% of the divorces in the frum world were avoidable and unnecessary.
Now in the past on this site you’ve frequently expressed great disdain for gedolim. You’ve made clear more than once that you think you know better than them. You have an entire history of such negative comments. (In addition to multiple entire threads you’ve created to tell the gedolim what they must do and condemn them for not following your instructions.)
But there are very many deferential Yidden who love and accept Klal Yisroel’s gedolim and take their words carefully and seriously and accept their rebuke. It is to them I relate. Your repeating the same talking points as above for the fourth time won’t change that.
DY: Abusive husbands represent a very small percent of the overall divorce rate in the frum community. And then there’s the abuse of the term abusive as well as the abuse of claiming abuse. For example, just a few comments back someone referred to “financial abuse” as a justification for divorce. These ambiguous usages open the possibilities, which are often exploited and applied to every slight real or perceived, to claim abuse for either silly, inaccurate or unjustified claims that a party then uses to solicit external (community or legal) support. This, of course, doesn’t negate the situations where abuse is real. But we also must acknowledge how widespread the abuse of the claim and term have become in the real world and how little real abuse represents as a portion of the outrageous divorce rate that has more to do with a spoiled and disposal society than anything else.
AY: You’re singing a different tune in your follow-up. First you opined that “No one outside the marriage is in a position” to a advise a couple not to divorce. Unless your consider Rav Shteinman a “no one” he did exactly that regarding the woman.
And, furthermore, Rav Shteinman related the above told story of that woman and her regretful divorce precisely to teach us a moral lesson about this very subject.
So you’re arguing that Rav Shteinman was wrong to have advised that woman not to get divorced before she got divorced and later regretted it? Do you have even a tenth the experience of Rav Shteinman in advising troubled people?
The aforementioned studies, among others, have shown that overall the repercussions are generally negative. Sure there are exceptions to every rule and no one said divorce is always the wrong path, but more often than not divorced couples would have been smarter sticking it out through thick and thin. Rav Shteinman said so and the studies show so. Even when there is fighting, in most cases that isn’t as bad as divorce.
In any event, the reality is Trump will not become President. He will very likely be the nominee. And he will then lose to Clinton.
Divorcing can harm the children. This has been demonstrated in numerous studies.
At a 5-year follow-up, one study of divorced children (Wallerstein, 1985) showed:
1. Persistence of anger at the parent who had initiated the divorce.
2. Intensity of longing for the absent or erratically visiting parent.
4. Moderate to severe clinical depression in over one third of the original sample.
At the 10-year follow-up with those same children of divorce (Wallerstein, 1985), the following information was gathered about the participants:
2. Quotes from the young adults themselves:
3. Physically, these participants reported poorer physical health than children from intact families.
4. Emotionally, they indicated persistent problems with the following:
You mean there really is no shidduch crisis?!
Rav Shteinman’s point is borne out in the statistics. Read the article by Dr. Mark Banschick M.D. in Psychology Today titled “The High Failure Rate of Second and Third Marriages: Why are second and third marriages more likely to fail?”, Feb 06, 2012, that begins with “Past statistics have shown that in the U.S. 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 73% of third marriages end in divorce.”
Not only is their no assurance that one will be able to remarry after a divorce and not only is their no assurance that a second marriage won’t be worse than the first, but even once remarried the divorce statistics are notably higher than first marriages. So what does one do after a second divorce? Move on to the third marriage with an even higher divorce rate than second marriages?
As Rav Shteinman suggested – stick it out with your zivug rishon and “make the best of the situation”.
That’s Rav Shteinman’s take. You decide.
Rav Shteinman’s advice is very meaningful.
Q: Why are there so many failed marriages today?
Rav Shteinman
Q: If a better Shidduch prospect comes along is it alright to cancel a date with someone else?
Rav Chaim Kanievsky
Q: What is the most common reason why people give a negative response to a proposed Shidduch?
A large amount of political calls do in fact get made based on the phone number (some people) provided on their voter registration form, which is a public record and also associates party affiliation with the particular voter (and his phone number.)
ZD: Tens of thousands of Orthodox Jewish children are bused to Yeshiva by the NYC Board of Ed.
Well, his indiscretions were public and well-known before he became President and he continued them in the Oval Office! And she’s married to that debauchee. Offhand I seem to recall that if someone is evil or in cherem, halacha essentially carries over his status and/or excommunication to his wife. And she herself strongly supported toeiva marriage (a position I don’t think Trump took) and other overt acts of public policy support for immorality.
And I do think that Trump will be overall bad as President but that Clinton will be worse. It is a very close call though and I could be wrong. (How’s that for humble pie?)
She publicly supported — and for heaven’s sake continues to be married to! — him and defended him from those very acts of gross immorality. She defended him from his victims. Look, we can argue over who is worse on this count and I recognize that a fair argument could be made that Trump is worse on this point. But considering that she is no innocent even on this count, we have to also take into account the broader picture where she is much worse than him overall on public policy positions. And if in power she’ll, to take an example, appoint Supreme Court justices (and lower judges) who will cause graver long-term social damage to the nation than Trump appointees (in my opinion.)
It’s also not PC to say it too loud these day, but being non-PC I can also add that I don’t believe women should be in a public position. <gasp>
Clinton publicly announced her support of a serial immoralist who was worse than Trump. And he was in the most public position while conducting his acts of gross immorality.
You’re right in everything you just pointed out about Trump. And I do not support him. But if it comes down to Trump vs. Clinton, I’m not convinced Clinton is any better on these counts. I also (generally) believe in voting for the lesser of the two evils.