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I am not sure where this conversation is going, but it seems that everyone is confidently assigning their own view to Hashem and then interpreting events from that position. Maybe some humility is in order.
Also, we may be mixing up our Shapiros, the one I mentioned is niftar long ago.
amom, in many cases of elderly, this is something that adds up to “pre-existing conditions”, especially in a moment of crisis when the person is in a nursing home or other similar condition. It is hard to tell a posteriori whether people would have survived otherwise or not. But given sudden bursts of levayas at the time it happens, it is clear that many of those deaths are untimely.
I don’t know to what degree things are predictable. I know several middle aged, medium unhealthy, people who had one case that was mild and next year second – very hard and even ICU.
This was the matter of discussion between Jewish people and Shmuel, when they are asking for a melech and he warns them that it will cost them. People cling to authoritarians that can quickly solve problems. Not sure what can be done short of educating population in civics and davening.
One example of proper approach was Trump refusing to resolve “dreamers” dilemma via executive action and throwing it back to Congress where it should be properly addressed. There was an attempt, it did not work, but the direction was proper.
jackk, I see, but just picture that you are talking to a friend in person and talk accordingly.
R Yohanan told his students to respect Hashem as they do mortal kings – respect to those you can perceive directly is more real. This applies not just to online discussions. Also, people in cars are often less respectful than when walking in front of someone. You often see people cutting others off when driving, but rarely while walking.Maybe the “root cause”, pardon the word, is am-haartzus. People claim to look for “qualified”, but what they really mean is “minimally qualified”, without valuing maximal qualifications. And it adds up – the more “minimally qualified” people get power, the more they continue pushing other mediocre people into positions of power. So, anyone who can string a couple of words to construct an excuse for their failures, can become President, Sec of State, Supreme Justice… You may disagree w/ say Kissinger, but he is no Blinkin’.
Thanks Syag, Marxist, stories seem to reconcile. This seems to shed some light on how Avira’s stringent opinions are formed: they consist of very precise recollections, but contrary opinions do not exist in this memory, so the overall picture gets distorted. As to veracity, here is a first-hand account: I heard from R Shapiro Z’L from Beth Israel Miami that he went to Israel for 6 days war helping out the Army somehow, maybe as a nurse.
Syag, are you asking for numbers to support the joke? sure, here they are,
0.79 fatalities for driving per 100 million traveled miles on urban roads
< 0.5 for flying commercial
but higher for using general aviation – 10harder to find risk of walking – too many articles about benefits of walking a mile or two 🙂
one reference saying waking is 40 times more dangerous. Surely depends on where you are walking – downtown Chicago may be more dangerous than some other places.We seemingly have a glaring disagreement here about R Kamenetsky’s reaction in 1967 between witnesses. This is very uncomfortable. Can we resolve it?
Federalists are not protected minorities. Ilks also.
Avram, I am glad you are getting on board! Indeed, if you were driving for “fun”, like people skiing or NASCAR racing – seems questionable activity for people who have a mitzva to put a railing on their own roof. So, I would say meaningless driving around would be unnecessary sakanah (and bitul zman).
But if you do need to get somewhere, driving is safer and more efficient than walking (and flying is safer than driving) – per mile, not per hour.
ujm, you seem to be reading from a Soviet textbook, maybe absorbed through some American academics. Ukraine actually was a country for a short period in about 1918. Before Russia, it was Poland and Austro-Hungary. Jews went there on their own having an opportunity to work the estates as representatives of Polish nobles. Crimea used to be Tatar, even after it became Russian. Soviets exiled them all (most died on the way) around WW2 somewhere. One reason Turkey is supporting Ukrainians.
A simple point is that country borders were internationally recognized after USSR dissolved on their own. If Russia can claim Crimea, then Germany can claim Danzig from Poland and Kaliningrad from Russia; Poland – Vilno from Lita; Sweden – Petersburg from Russia; and Mongols – the rest of Russia.
All of Europe seemingly learned to live in a modern world without fighting each other, Russia and Belorussia are the only holdouts.
NIRC > Since when has SCOTUS nomination been about the most qualified individual?
American system is built on interests opposing each other. So there are no rules that every decision is done genuinely according to certain ethical principles. Still, there are some social conventions that help make this fight more civilized. In this case, 75% of Americans oppose binning candidates, so this is not appropriate.
jackk > I find myself at times posting things which I do not really believe in
Patient: Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do THAT.
Doctor: Don’t do THAT.oops, wrong thread.
ujm, not sure about anglo-saxon men, but Catholics and Jews are overrepresented onthe court for some time.
A good question. I think this is the answer: it is one thing to have courtesy of appointing a woman when none are on the court, or appoint a black man instead of the other (not that this was appreciated by any true progressive), but now we are making a multi-dimensional grid: someone has to be both right color and right gender. This is most weird for the supreme court – that is supposed to consist of lawyers, not representatives of aggrieved groups. During some previous confirmation when the mental ability of a candidate was questioned, someone quipped that stupid people also need to be “represented” in the court.
I second Gadol’s opinion. Religious parties need to come with a positive agenda that does not sound as self-serving. There are a lot of things religious Jews could do in addition to learning.
Yehoshua was approached by malach hamaves for not learning at night, but the malach did not suggest disbanding the army, just combining the milhama shel mitzva with learning a night.
a debate here will be actually interesting if we could use our Jewish norms to argue, rather than repeating partisan messages that have no regard for emes, just aiming to convince someone. It is true for both sides.
for example, the “debt” discussion purposefully conflates spending, often to allies, with reduced taxation. If I take jackk’s money and spend them in a casino and now “we” owe money – is it the same, as if I return money to jackk and now “we” do not have money, but jackk does?
You don’t have to agree with R Berel Wein, but from everything I read and heard from him, he generally knows what he is talking about. People from Chicago probably have more to say. And his own insight are always interesting, again whether you agree with him or not. Not sure why you are comparing a Rav who specializes in history with some non-religious writers. I think people like him who are able to approach an area of general knowledge with a kosher perspective is a precious resource we need to use. Again, you don’t have to agree with everything, but argue accordingly.
Syag, I would be happy to talk, but you are even more cryptic than I, or your humor is way over my head. If you clarify, I’ll try resonding, bli neder.
jackk, it might be a coincidence but all amputations of Ukrainian territory happened under Obama and Biden, and not Trump. Georgia did happen under Bush, but there was some resistance shown there.
It is unprovable but seems plausible that if occupation of Crimea were resisted or lead to real consecutives, then Eastern Ukraine might not have happened.
Unfortunately, half measures (such as light symbolic sanctions) seem not to work here. George Bush played Trump at Budapest NATO summit trying to convince others to have Ukraine and Georgia in NATO until he annoyed them. Maybe there will be a new defensive block consisting of US,UK, Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Georgia, Scandinavians, leaving West Europeans to fight their greatest enemy – global warming. I am sure Estonians can accidently cut through NordStream 2 on their own.
Hm, not black PS, either a different mod or a different mood.
Do mods have mood? Can I ask this in honor of Adar?
I was just reading about one of the Afghani trying to get his special visa stamped in the last days of Kabul, and he was confronted by the over-worked Statie who seemed to be angry at the previous person and talked to him in a rude and loud way for no reason. I wonder whether mods lose balance after an outrageous post, or maybe have a l’chaim to get it back.
Syag > And the saddest part is that you actually see it as a parallel.
there is no parallel, I am taking it seriously, don’t you know there are more people dying from car accidents than anyone who died _from_ covid and flu combined!?!? I hope you are not encouraging anyone to drive and use cell phones, whether kosher, mehadrin, or treif.
PI, I do not like meaningless praise even less than undeserved abuse 🙂 I am frustrated at the daf speed: in person I was able to sabotage it a little with discussion, but it looks ruder on the zoom.
I think it is not so much the pace, but the monotone speed: famous lines and major issues deserve same attention as figuring out whether the mishna is according to R Yosi or not. I get it why the latter was important for the Gemora to develop halakhic patterns, and maybe even for someone in a semichah program, but I would rather spend more time figuring out implications for the modern life (as this is what Bavli is doing – developing a research method, according to Maharal that we discussed here months ago). I am trying to jump off the daf to research sugyot on a side but don’t always have time. That is why I am throwing provocative statements here sometimes – hoping someone will expand on the topic.Mishlei talk about answering a fool. If you see that your answers causes even more problems, then you need to stop. But it may be worth to have at least 1-2 posts, provided you give reasonable factual information once, and then point how the other side fails to respond. This might help the readers, if not the posters. But don’t get into a fight with a pig.
2008 > what ever happened to “Venishmartem meod es nafshoseichem’??!
This is such a naive cry, might have been from 1950s. We know better by now: who said that driving w/ cellphone is dangerous? How many people got into accidents _with_ cellphones, rather than _because_ of cellphones? You should not count “cases” of accidents with cellphones, they are double-counted by lawyers. Furthermore, most people killed in the accidents did not have cell phones! In 1960, ALL people who died in accidents did not have cellphones!! And if you take cell phones from people, you will take away freedom!!! Teenagers driving without cellphones are not able to see their faces for two years already (as they are masked in person). Also, 99% of all accidents are just nothing, especially if you are young and healthy. So, let the old people not use their cellphones! Protect the elderly.
Mod X > We don’t usually let these through
How is this opinion worse than other opinions? Maybe “evil jews” is a bad turn of words, but his thought is pretty clear and he calls Jews not to constantly find reasons to hate. Some may disagree, but there is nothing treif. I am not trying to argue with the mods, just stating that your admonition in this case is not clear to me.
on the substance, you should have no problem with R Yehudah: if he was so strict with a regular baal aveira, kal v’homer with worse cases.
Conclusion of keeping it quiet sounds problematic, maybe that is what you are pointing out. When I questioned that going back to R Yehudah, Rav suggested that maybe at R Yehudah’s time, people would understand this properly, but at later times, they would start thinking worse about Talmidei Chachamim in general. But, I think, the main thing we can take from the gemorah is that this is a trade-off: on one hand, we want to punish openly to show that we stand to the aveira and T’C; on the other – we don’t want people blame all T’Ch when they hear about such cases. If someone ealrned this sugya further, please share.
Note specifically comparison of Rebbes to Malachim – and rejection of “we need him to teach” in favor of “we do not need teachers like that”. This does not seem to be rejected at the end, only the public cherem. Would it be a leap to apply this notion to books of Torah that are same as teaching Torah? does not have to apply to science books, or fiction, or even Jewish songs.
hey, guys, I said “from cursory reading” as a self-admission of guilt and hoping that someone else looked up into that. Stop beating me up. It is the first time I am doing the daf, first after watching the wonderful siyum with the kids (even after realizing that it was way limited in speakership), and then continued as it helps keep up at pandemic and shared it with kids – so that online learning does not become “do as I say, not as I do”. Before that, I preferred short masechtot so that I could finish in a year, and lose a hevrusa at a half the masechet.
>> whether or not .5 and the .50 that was written on the orders was the same thing.
for several people laughing, these are actually not strictly the same:
0.5 means one digit is accurate, 0.50 would mean two digits are accurate (that is NOT 0.51), so should require a more precise measurement. This may be not what the confusion is about, of course.From cursory reading, gemora should fit any related sexual crimes. Did you see a reason not to?
The only team-player VP in recent years was Dick Cheney. Pence tried, but had a difficult boss. All others for the last 40 years were used to win elections and then sent to pasture.
next page in Moed Katan says that when someone is accused (possibly falsely), there was something there – either he did this avera before, or did it in part, or thought about it, or saw others doing it and did not object. Exceptions are when rumors are spread by enemies and when they are short-lived.
This romantic view of workplace is clearly by someone who is still coming of age, or is a victim of the welfare system.
Avira > Tell them you have doubts about if the wars were miracles,
I can answer that, I think: Hashem introduces himself as One who took us out of mitzrayim – because this is what Jews just witnessed. So, someone who was sitting in a tank in 6 day war is naturally talking about that. You would too if you were there.
Avira, re:IDF, I think you are right in terms of ideology there. I do not ascribe it though to specifically attack on religion, but to the real goal of building a cohesive nation the best way they knew. We all have tendency of looking at the negatives – attitudes towards religion, towards Sephardim, but disregarding the enormous challenge of putting together a country consisting of survivors and immigrants from different countries and surrounded by enemies. It is silly not to appreciate their hishtadlut, and Yad Hashem involved into the whole enterprise.
As to Satmarer and your smarting at 6 day war, I would take them serious if you can point out to this sentiment expressed before the start of hostilities. edited
BG7 > Personally, as a Torah-Jew, I am completely repulsed by Trump’s personality,
I understand where you are coming from, I am just wondering whether everything we hear is completely true. There are obvious political attacks, but then there are things that sound true and they still may not be. Some examples – a lot of stories on how he disregards experts and comes up with uninformed decisions. They sounds true. At the same time, we now know that he was persuaded not to follow – or at least delay – his “gut” decisions, such as withdraw from Afghanistan; we also now have current new CDC head saying that she is trying to change organization, so seems like Trump was correct at side-stepping them when necessary. He is also less polished and also often uses his directness to access voters. Obama/Netanyahu relationship was much worse than anything Trump ever said but it only came to surface several times. Just the fact that 6 years of investigations did not uncover anything inappropriate so far – in such a suspicious business as NY real estate … I have some unbiased info: actually watched Trump’s apprentice years ago with an eye on business decision-making, and found a lot to learn from that. All of that not to deny that he has personality flaws, but they need to be taken in the context and comparison to others.
Avira, I see. I don’t know details on what is happening inside of IDF, but from people I met, those who were chilonim before, stayed that way, and those who were datiim stayed that way. With dati leumi, would them going to other paces instead of IDF lead to a similar loss? Probably, yes. I don’t see IDF doing some specifically eveil thing rather than just being representative of the overall society.
Daf Yomi Moed Katan 17 talks about this: a talmid chacham suspected of improper behavior with the ladies. Some suggest that we can’t put him in herem because we need him as a Rebbe in yeshiva! This follows with the conclusion that Rebbes need to be – and seen – as malachim. Otherwise, we don’t need them. So Rav Yehuda puts him in herem, and later when R Yehuda is dying, this guy shows up – to the delight of R Yehuda. The guy says – and you also laughing at me. R Yehuda explains that he is happy to show up in Olam Habo showing courage that he put this guy in herem, despite him being an important guy. At the end, after some other cases, gemora seems to suggest that we don’t want to publicize herms against T’Ch, it is better to just give them makos in private.
ujm, probably! While I am not aware of purposefully unchecked Arabs, it would be an easily exploited vulnerability to have some category of passengers unchecked. One of the British Arabs in the 80s, I think, exploited his pregnant Irish girlfriend. He gave her some long excuse why they need to travel separately to E’Y to meet there to get married, and put a timed bomb into her luggage on London-Tel-Aviv flight. She behaved totally not suspicious because she was not aware of anything. Somehow, her story sounded weird to the British security officer despite checking her things a couple of times.
Taking a bigger picture: the wonder of having millions of Jews living – and keeping mitzvos – in e’Y is something worth appreciating. So, it came through activites of non-religious Jews and various empires scheming for their own benefit. What is the extra “defilement” of Har Habayit? That we have a shul at the Wall instead of the garbage dump? The army is immoral because their kashrus is not up to your standard, while they are risking their lives? “come on”
Gadol, I did not see those polls, but presuming Trump is a nominee, are there people who voted for him in 2020 and would not vote again? Are there cases in reverse? I think there are after all the Biden antics.
As to primaries, I am very skeptical about “trump light” versions. We get a lot of people who say right words and then not do them or do not have skills to do those.
How do you deal with issues on shabbos and yom tov if you are a sole operator? Do you explain to tenants about it? Do you hire a shabbos goy to handle the issues? You can provide phones for plumbers and electricians, but there are always issues that needs to be resolved.
RW > Charlie Hall how does you showing the NYPD officer your receipt stop the fare evaders?
If police were to stop a shady person, the other evaders would say – I do not look as shady as him.
But now evaders saw that NYPD can stop even a person in an impeccable suit and beard, so they got scared. Deterrence effect. NYPD knows that.smerel> If I KNEW that what I hear about the Uyghurs is true
I thought you can find camps in satellite imagery, but it is even easier – look for censored spots 🙂
China’s Baidu blanked out parts of its mapping platform. We used those locations to find a network of buildings bearing the hallmarks of prisons and internment camps in Xinjiang ( from prize winning articles in 2020, Blanked-Out Spots On China’s Maps Helped Us Uncover Xinjiang’s Camps(
I don’t think long history is important for current politics, as long as we realistically remember that any country can turn against us at some point. Ukraine is definitely a current frontier against totalitarians and need to be supported. Russians chose the moment well: a defeatist Pres of USA with a weak team; new government in Germany even less anti-Russian than previous; outsider President of Ukraine; middle of winter with expensive gas and frozen marshes… Why did Hashem put a Jewish comedian in charge of that country at this moment? I guess we will find out later on whom the joke is.
common > quite a few cities filed for bankruptcy.
just sell Manhattan back to Indians. It is worth lessnow (negative)( with all liabilities.
ejm> have learned there are more libs on this site than I thought.
I think there is less than a minyan so far, so not a community.
It looks like opinions vary as to personality, and media-propagated TDS is endemic, so that even the poasters with high vaccine of derech eretz still get infected. Still, if you look simply at policies and achievements, as amom says, there is not much that a moderate conservative should be upset about.
The only difference between how Trump and other R- politicians are treated: they are all called names, just in his case, some might actually apply. Maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy – you called R- villains, so you get one! Al tiftach pe l’satan.
amom > We need a good, legal process of getting immigrants into this country.
US has a reasonable legal process. Here are numbers: 14% of USA population are legal immigrants, 3% illegal. Other countries legal immigrants: israel 26%, canada 21%, Germany 17%, spain 15%,Uk 14%, France 9%, Italy 7% hungary 2%
historically, US foreien born population went up & down: very high in 1880-1920, then way downm etc
“need to handle themselves”? – this would make sense for a democratic country, where voters are eventually responsible for their choices. I am not sure why such reluctance calling reshayim reshayim when taking about commies, nazis and other dictators.
CtLawyer > I supported letting countries make their own domestic decisions.
I read it the same way. You seem to be usually sensitive to human condition. Maybe you are not realizing yourself the pretzel you are putting yourself in to feel comfortable representing CCP types in American courts.