Always_Ask_Questions

biased insiders reported the following right before election:
– Biden advocated vetoing anti-Israeli resolution, others, such as Susan Rice, advocated for voting FOR. Obama split the difference and at the last moment instructed to abstain.
– Israeli leaders appreciated Biden’s attitude towards Israel security needs and were able to talk to him. Others on the team did not remember Israeli history and already had Palestinian issue in mind, and were impossible to deal with.

This is, of course, self-serving justifications, but probably based on some truth

>> who are all these millions of people who voted Biden

Both candidates attracted record number of voters. As was Trump wish, he achieved multiple records: people who voted for him, people who voted against him;
biggest market jump when elected; biggest market jump when market thinks he was defeated ….

it is possible that part of the voting increase is due to Covid – mail voting, people working at home and reading news all the time. Still, it seems enthusiasm on both sides was very high.

going forward, there is a difference though:
Trump energized several clusters of voters using specific ideas – list of Justice, building a wall, Israeli embassy, low regulations, etc.

Dems energized their voters by making them hate Trump and keeping themselves out of the news. That is why Biden would not answer any questions about his policies, as any answer he did give alienated someone even as he tried not to [no fracking, but only on federal lands].

So, Dems will have hard time going forward trying to make everyone happy.That is why the main call is to “unite” without specific policy references.

>> dearth of frum, solid boys who are serious about earning an income and supporting a family. By solid, I mean someone who makes daily time to learn and davens with a minyan.

So, you seem to describe an educational crisis rather than a shiduch crisis. Do you see a pattern, where these “solid boys” exist or not exist – specific communities, schools?

>> Maybe all girls should be encouraged to go to Shana Bet

There were comments here,when Covid started, that this could be a good excuse to skip seminaries. For those who do not need seminary for their future jobs, why can’t the girls skip Shana Alef and get professional education? You can do online or local college BS in 3 years. What is the the effect on shiduchim?

@GH: Until then, yidden in galus live in accordance to the rules adopted by the majority

I agree. There is always tension between (1) our desire to live our independent life as a community, and (2) our desire to participate in public life and help humanity

Modern Western world made it even more pronounced as it is easy to do both, so we have more choices than in the past. In US especially, part of the country philosophy is limited government. Thus, if we support limited government – and giving freedom to our community – we are killing 2 birds with one stone (hopefully, not a mother-daughter)

I was not on previous threads, so let me try. Apologize if I am repeating previous threads

I don’t think dating by age matters: at the end, hopefully, one boy finds one girl…

maybe there are less boys applying for shidduch, while more of them looking in other places? males everywhere are less risk-averse than females.

that is – very traditional boys interested in less traditional girls; less traditional boys interested in not-so-observant girls; not-so observant boys interested in non-observant girls, etc, etc

lots of strange things happened this year already. how about a 270-268 election, then 1 elector switching his vote (based on new Hunter revelations or bribede by Russians) and election goes to Congress. Congress compromises on Biden as a VP (again). Maybe a rotation, Israeli style.

Syag> Because it’s not 95%. I wish it was but it’s not.

an important number is not for one person, but the public health effect

surgical mask protection may be 50% for both sides, but this may decrease transmission rate R_t
from, say, 1.1 to 0.9. That is a difference between increasing and decreasing pandemic. As Rambam says, you should think that the world is 50-50 and it is up to you…

@RebE >> I don’t trust them as Iran violated its treaty. If they have a beneficial opportunity to violate the treaty, they will.

not argueing, but note that Iran violations was also a reason for Arab countries to make peace with Israel

GH, so we agree. I am saying that payments lapse, we will actually see who can not find a job, and who can. I am not saying this has to be done l’hathila, but at least the lobbyists will have less power.

ujm, @Murder is
the question shifted slightly from a generic army to enlisting in American or Israeli armies.
If we go to old poskim (such as Machane Israel by Chafetz Chaim), we would probably hear more about Austro-Hungarian and Russian armies.

@lying (is that even against halacha?).
I guess I am not ollowing the joke. Just incase, here is 1st footnotte from halachipedia “prohibition to lie”
Parshas Shemos 23:7, see Rambam Hilchos De’os 5:7, Shulchan Aruch C.M. 262:21, Mishna Brurah O.C. 25:14, Mesilas Yesharim 11. Refer to Rambam Sefer Hamitzvot Lo Sasei 281 who includes the issur of lying in the issur of saying Hashem’s name in vain regarding bais din. Lying is disgusted in the eyes of all, and there is nothing more disgusting than lying. Hashem is truth, and beracha only goes on someone who wants to go in the ways of Hashem. Therefore, the Torah tells us to further ourselves from lying. Pela Yoetz Sheker page 558, Sefas Tamim 6:page 24 write that no other aveirah does the Torah use the words “to further” except for lying therefore one must be careful with this even when it would only appear to be a lie. The issur is not only not to say a lie but to further oneself from a lie (Niv Sefasayim page 10).

@Lostspark: I just spent $2,300 on a sheitel

Not taking the sides in this hair-raising machloket, just a practical suggestion if you consider being machmir in this avoda zara a priority: borrow an esrog for several years (savings, say, $150, $50 for a kid per year, use your own numbers going forward), sell your black hat, spend vacation with grandparents (post-covid), teach one kid at home instead of private school. You might even have money left for a couple of nice tichels!

I wonder whether any of you guys are voting for a party that they voted most of the times before?
If yes, most likely you are not really debating a topic, but simply bringing a foreign culture of politicking here. This is obvious bitul Torah, as anyone can simply load corresponding website and find out about Trump’s taxes and Biden’s cash from the horses’ mouths.

Why don’t we try – together – establish some high-level non-partisan Torah principles on voting.

I’ll bring one example I read about that shows how non-trivial things are (my imperfect recollection from reading): some time in the 60s, a group of college students considered starting a campaign for Soviet Jewry. They approach R Feinstein, Lubavitcher R, R Teistz. All 3 were against open anti-Soviet activities, in part due to preferences for quiet activities and in part fearing what Soviets could do to these youngsters. R Soloveichik said that he will first consult Israeli government. He came back and said that he is not going to pasken, but he advises against. Students did study the campaign, and a couple of years later, one of them asked R Soloveichik why he is not repeating his negative position to them. Rav responded that he changed his position, explaining:
I asked the politicians that I consulted: what is best policy for Soviet Jews. They responded – to keep quiet. I later realized that they lied to me. They told me what is best for Israelis (as they tried to negotiate with Soviets), but not what is best for Soviet Jews.

I think we need to teach children that we learn from teachers, not politicians. We do not worship those politicians, be them Trump, Obama, FDR, Trotsky. We also need to teach kids to critically evaluate sources and acknowledge truth instead of parroting any party line.

Until the recent mishugas, my kids did not know my political positions well. I made a couple of them listen to the last policy debate (Obama-Romney). We did it on the radio to avoid visuals. Obama lost their vote when he proposed hiring 100,000 math teachers!

@gadol,
Indeed, it is an unfortunate, or a pre-planned, case that COVID coincided with an election (this may be a good argument NOT to run elections for the whole 4 years…).

Both sides seemingly succumbed to the virus: Trump projects optimism, Biden threatens dark winter unless he is elected. They are not the only one firmly defending principles that coincide with their interests: gym owners who say exercise is important, bar owners who say relaxing is important, principals who say in-person learning is essential.

So, look more at actions and achievements. One group I am disappointed with are pro-business never-Trumpers, like Romney and Bloomberg who actually ave expertise. I did not see them doing a lot. May have missed.

I am not modern enough to follow “daas Torah” (if I am wrong, please give me a reference to the Gemora tha discusses daas Torah, I would appreciate it), but here is a couple of examples what we would ask Gadol for – a longer view.

1) Haredi politicians asked Menahem Begin to increase government funding for schools. Begin said – this is enough not enough, I’ll give you as much as other schools. Rav Shach told them to refuse and go to previous levels. Otherwise, schools will now rely on government and next government will change the rules

2) WW2, 1940, Vilno, question to R Grozdinski: should we use Sugihara’s visas for old Rabbis (Soviets will arrest them first) or young ones (whose children will be taken away to communist schools). His answer: old ones, they will be able to help remaining ones when they come to US, and also they wil be more of use to American Jews

GH, Syag, I agree that the connectivity improved greatly everywhere. I am wondering whether school-centered system woks well everywhere (I am sure it works well in many places):
1) some schools might be hesitant to share all details. maybe will share what they have to… I am not sure what I’ll report if my livelihood depend on it …
2) virus may enter community from other angles before getting to schools
3) information needs to get to other people, not just those at a particular school

@geteducated, trials are designed to achieve a conclusion whether they are safe and have a reasonable chance to be effective – and do it very quickly. Waiting until knowing all answers will take several years. Please give NIH, CDC, Persident’s op Warp Speed recognition for changing the protocols.

30% is not “nothing”, and while people will be vaccinated, we will find out more. I am even wondering whether Chinese & Russians are doing the right things vaccinating 3rd world at some, probably not high, risk (admittedly, not for themselves)

Beyond politics and clever zingers on both sides (Biden – it is not about my family, it is about yours, Trump – why didn’t you do when you were a VP), there was one moment that I felt was really bad: when Biden disparaged vaccine producing efforts saying “there will not be a vaccine for most population before summer”. this is cleverly coached and prepared “most population” – that is even if vaccination will start this week and really discounting work by some many people – and organized and funded seemingly well, including reported doses that are already paid for and manufactured. There are enough things that you can arguably blame Trump for, but this is a cheap shot that will probably have extra thousands of elderly people with depression. And this was a prepared answer, not a momentary lapse of judgment.

GH, that is why I think Jewish communities need their own warning systems. Are there any commuincation lines open? do school principals inform at least each other of new cases?
are front-line doctors allowed to warn the community when they see new cases?

I observe that when there is specific information about a local community, significant number of people become more careful, and they even feel smart – see, we can wear a mask when it “really”
matters. But this works only with a good warning system. If we wait for several people to go take test, get an answer in several days, then news take several days to propagate – this is too late.

It got to be daily text messages – suspected symptoms by school and class; positive and negative test, etc. Many universities, which are similar in structure as a community – inside connection, limited outside, parties, mixture of young with old – publish test information several times a week: total, negatives, positives. And quick turn-around tests of most exposed people. This has to be done where communities are trying to stay open.

you can as well say that Jews are historically Tories, at least the first modern politician was. It looks like lots of Yakkies were Republican supporters during Lincoln times. Then, of course, Eastern European Jews came and supported socialists (Eugene Debs 38%) and also Democrats. I wonder what percentage of Orthodox Jews arriving iup to 1920s were left or not wing, as lots of socialists were aggressively anti-religious. Maybe this political differences between religious and secular Jews started already then? At this point, there are 2 Jewish groups that are pro R- : Orthodox and Russians. This seems to correspond to other US clusters – more religious are more R- and those who came from Cuba, Venezuala. So, it is either fears of prosecution by liberals or actual experience.

(1), just start your own social media. FB and GOOG started by 3 young Jews. Come up with a startup idea and go pitch them, maybe they’ll listen to your arguments and correct their views.

ujm >> Better to give up a percent of economic growth

I respect your position. If it is 2% growth (and who can predict that?) v total immorality, I am with you. I am thinking more of turning economics into stagnation, aggressive “you did not build that” attitude that destroys the “westward expansion” spirit that, I hope, still exists in this country.

That is, economics is also morals. Torah v Derech Eretz