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> The countries that mass distributed Ivermectin to part or all of their population with tightly correlated and reproducible “flattening the curve” of every covid metric (like Mexico, Peru, India, just to name a few),
What is the claim specifically? I looked up Mexico, and their cumulative deaths are same as USA, their case fatality rate is several times higher than USA.
Moshe Rabbeinu previously complained that politics is too much for him. So, now, as he is done with politics, and Yehoshua is taking over and will deal with practicalities of applying Torah to real life in Eretz Isroel, Moshe went to spend remaining hours on his birthday to learn lishma, rather than answering shailos.
Gabbai needs to remember who is a lefty and call them when appropriate and not call them when not appropriate.
Sephardi Torahs are built better for Hagbah even with all the silver.
My Chasidishe Rosh Yeshiva taught that Eretz Isroel has inherent kedusha, while in other places we need to work to create islands of kedusha.
> President Bush would stand when speaking to his father,
I would think Bush Sr would prefer Bush Jr to not stand, but rather follow his advice … Not saying which one was wiser, just food for thought about what respect is.
ujm > Newer cars costs around $60 per oil change in NYC.
so, if you earn less than $60/hour, same applies. Furthermore, you do an oil change while on a trip off the island. I presume “newer” car means at least capable of crossing a bridge, not like some “older” NY cars.
Avram > You seem to bring up full-time learners quite frequently, no matter the context of the thread. What’s with that?
In this case, I just covered multiple cases where solution might be different – people who earn more, people who earn less, and people who depend on others.
As one illustration that halakha is different where you are independent or not – I quoted R Salanter before that he lowered his kashrus standards when he was on a trip sponsored to improve his health. And there are other examples – vacations, jewelry, tuition, where things are different. Some schools my kids went to are asking (I think appropriately) what camps/vacations kids attend, presumably before deciding on tuition breaks.
Where you are right – that these issues come up often and seems like you are surprised how often. Possibly, people get used to a lifestyle and do not understand the halakhic and lifnei-meshuras =-hadin implications.
As you asked my opinion, I humbly concur with the Gemorah cautioning us that many tried the way of Rashbi and did not succeed.
Avira > lechol hadeos Israeli law doesn’t enjoy the status of dina demalchua,
You can’t say “lechol hadeos”, if there are deos that disagree. You again define “deos” as only those with whom you agree.
If you think that delegitimizing others make your argument here stronger, you are mistaken. It is other way around. I suggest following Beis Hillel quoting R Kook first 🙂
> protesting a law one considers unjust
at the end, US provides democratic means to change the laws provided you can convince the people of such. In the case of MLK, he thought that he needs to have illegal acts and jail as a dramatic step of convincing the public or specific politicians. He did not plan the marches to establish alternative reality to the law.
it is not poshut whether you can be in shorts while on a zoom Torah class, or even a business call.
R Ouerbach used to stand while talking with R Moshe on the phone. Kal’ vehomer on zoom.
I think if you exhausted other approaches to Hashem – starting with healthy lifestyle, medicines, teshuva, tefila, tzedokah, learning, then it is time for the gems.
would this depend on woman’s height? If she is taller than an average Yid in shul (shoes included), then shuold be concerned that someone needs to stand on a chair and see her hair from the top?
it may depend not only whom you are asking but who is asking.
here is an example: my daughters were not sure whether a particular separation in an outdoors shul was OK, I asked a “hoshuva Rav”, who was sitting nearby and is pretty strict himself, whether this is OK. He looked back, shrugged and said – “they can stand there, if they are ok with this”. I said – “they are not ok with this”. He said “then, they should not stand there”. You may get a similar answer with the shaitel.
Health, Cochrane is a long time established source for meta-reviews. If you suspect them of foul-play, please look at their study and tell us what lead them to a different conclusion than you other meta-study, and then we can ponder who is more reasonable.
I looked briefly at the other site that impressed me with richness of references, but I think was a little cavalier with how they process them. They appear to be including a lot of very small studies and averaging them equally with large and very careful ones. Again, if you compare the two meta-studies step by step, we’ll see how they came to different conclusions.
As we got lots of sources here already, maybe those who feel oppressed by a specific din, can quote the specifics so that we can see which sources apply where.
Also, some call to not mix up Dina d’m with Hillul Hashem, but they are related. When people see or suspect Jews of doing something illegal, it would be Hillul Hashem, provided population respects the law itself. So, this may be different between Czar’s or Commies Russia or some Baghdad Caliph v. a modern democracy where you can generally assume that > 50% of the population, give or take, even if indirectly, support the law. So, keep in mind that some of the sources may have been developed under oppressive governments.
2 scents > NZ: As synthesized in the Cochrane systematic review
as I suggested, just go to Cochrane reviews site – that has many years of expertise in doing meta-studies – and read those meta-reviews yourself.
Someone counted that a 1 mln of professionals of different disciplines published or commented on COVID, all in good faith, but often outside of what they really know (that includes me). So, many people are trying obvious – aggregating someone else’s studies. Cochrane knows how to do it, they test for potential pitfalls and biases, others might not.
To quote common seychel, you don’t do your own dentistry, don’t rely on amateur meta-studies.
Orange> $30-$80 to do an oil change than spend an hour or more on it at home… Yeshivish people have better things to do.
Do you earn more than $30 after tax? if yes, buy the service. If not, do it yourself. If you are not earning anything, and someone else pays for your learning, ask him if he is willing to pay for your oil change. He would probably ask you whether you are using the car to learn.
GH > we are holding on to cars for longer periods these days.
this is a pre-covid trend. Vehicles now are mostly man-made materials and not metal, so they do not rust. Car companies suffer from their own success, and produce less cars – and charge more for them. Mechanics have less work to do and daven for early snow so that there will be at least some body work ..
> very car problem, HVAC problem, electrical problem a you had I’m my community I’m receiving calls year round for help with no offers if pay.
You should be proud that you are able to do something in life that is helpful to other people. A lot of office people are never asked to help as their skill of sitting through meetings and nodding is not helping humanity.
Possible solutions: pay yourself from your tzedokah funds (or essentially, consider your advice tzedokah). This is a subset of a more general solution to life annoyances: create a fund to cover such expenses in advance and pay yourself from that fund, say, every time your kid breaks a cup instead of shouting at the kid.
Also, answering questions is a great way to advertise your service! These people will come to you later, or recommend you to their friends. Maybe make sure that people know that you provide paid services, by, say, putting an ad in a school yearbook so that people know how to find you.
Nochum, when comparing halakha and dina d’malchusa regarding lockdowns, halakha should generally be more strict than secular law (according to R Meir Twersky, May 2020), as Jews have high obligations to care about human lives and other people, while politicians might be also influenced by a desire to have economy running and be popular.
Now with a year of experience, where might secular law become more strict: politicians can follow strict way when strictness is popular and helpful to economy. Why would halakha become less strict then? if it is less popular among Jews, or Jewish businesses/lifestyle are affected, and Jewish community is pressed in a different direction? something to think about.
R Heineman was asked during 2020 lockdown, whether it is possible to make a minyan with several families each standing in their own yard, so technically within the law. I think the questioner was not sure that this will count them as one group. The psak was – no, because a passer-by will not look carefully whether you are within the law, he will just see Jews doing something inappropriate. Then, he said, when some Jew will be in a need of a ventilator, someone might deny him one based on the opinions going about the Jews.
Beitza 8 regarding not shehting koy on yom tov – do not do a chumrah that will look inappropriate for an uneducated person.
> Can you tell the difference between someone wearing a sheitel versus someone bareheaded?
exactly, the sheitel turns out to be lifnei ever, as some need to make sure they can daven and have to get too close to the ladies to ascertain that the lady has a sheitel and not hair on. So, no sheitels at least until the end of Covid for everyone’s good.
Avira > mindlessly resort to the refrain of “just don’t look!”
I agree. This is a bigger issue – we all need to consider first how we behave towards other people. Beitza 10 (daf yomi) and also Bava Basra – you can take the dove if dist <= 50 amos to the nearest house. Judge Menahem Elon explains that the goal is to have simple rules that every simple farmer can apply in order to make sure he is stealing someone else’s dove, rather than taking the dove and saying “sue meif you can prove it is yours” to the neighbor
> what happens until getting accustomed?
until you are accustomed, you are presumably still a kid, unless you grew up under Talibs.
There are many people who may not come often during the year, but come on RH, YK. You don’t want to make it difficult for them by starting too early.
This year, you may be good making an early minyan to avoid overcrowding, but in normal times you probably want to be together with the community
Gadol > while either deliberately or naively ignoring the accelerating collapse of the Afghan military and government.
I think Biden’s people who have mostly experience in the “Beltway” do not think of the real world. In their mind, they can put Afghani army in a position to fight for 6 months and expect that Army simply follow the plan in order to save US from an embarrassment of an immediate collapse, disregarding the prospect of being brutally killed after the 6 months. This leaked conversation between Biden and Ghani is a good illustration – Biden talks about world perception, and Ghani is asking for air support.
jackk> The same ones who if Trump had gotten it done would be lavishing praise on him.
We do not know at this point what Trump would have done. He was involved in a number of foreign policies and so far there are none that Biden (or Obama) handled better. Trump tried but failed to stop Nordstream-2, Biden just folded. Trump imposed sanctions on various Chinese companies, Biden rescinded just the one against TikTok and so far kept the rest. Islamic State, Abrahamic accords, Iran – in all cases Trump handled it better than B or O. So, there is no reason to think that Trump would do worse and possibly would have done better. He would negotiate, threaten – not just Taliban, but also Ghani and warlords. Would he had succeeded, we don’t know, but I think everyone would agree, at least he would have tried, instead of just looking how to blame everyone. Mayhbe we need to wait for the next Trump term to find out.
Ubi >> choice 2: “staying in small numbers” until when? either indefinite
staying in small numbers was attempted successfully from 2015 with average 12 combat deaths per year. This included having advisors embedded with Afganis, etc. Could be made even safer if we reduce missions to videos and bombs. Some people get PTSD from flying Predators but that it is all. From the time Trump started talking to Taliban in Feb 2020, there were 0 deaths, so other groups are no threat at all. There was no risk in this mission, except politically. Worst case, we will get back to conceding in 4 years. So more people would go to school there in these 4 years.
FrusStat> A properly designed and handled large scale RCT will (almost) always be better than a observational study, but the key points are properly designed and handled large scale RCT.
I am more fun of observational studies (also, “properly performed” of course). Even large-scale RCT run out of all variations: do you give medicine early/late, doses, with something else, to what kind of people, etc. Observational studies let you find potential candidates to be confirmed with RCTs.
Back to meta-studies. These quoted sites look a little strange. They may or may not be malicious, but they seem to be a pre-processing step – they automatically include all kind of studies and, seemingly, weight them equally, whether they have 10 or 10000 cases.
I thought Cochrane Review is a gold standard for properly designed meta-studies. could someone find anything on these medicines in Cochrane?
> I doubt one can even find non-glatt at a reputable butcher.
I think it was due t hashgahot moving to get the market from more observant community, so they stopped certifying non-glatt. That lead to, obviously, lack of non-glatt meat from reputable companies. Presumably, it is easy now to sell non-glatt to non-kosher market.
I think the picture was different in previous times when local butchers were in charge.
RebE> Aseres Yermei Teshuva it says we should only drink chalav yisroel
You are right, so those who say that presume that people drink CS the rest of the year … And those who drink CY abandoned this wonderful Rosh Hashona minhag
How about yeshivos organize an evening class on halachos of defensive driving, driving politely lemehadrin, and basics of car service. A mechanic should be able to do his part for free as an advertisement for his shop.
In addition to chips that require dealers, we need to appreciate cars becoming better – my mechanic lamented that there is no metal rusting in the car any more. Now if people would stop bumping into each other, he would be out of work.
ujm> The real question is, in Europe did frum Yidden ever go around bareheaded?
there seems to be a very inconsistent usage of this argument. In many cases, we have no problems changing what they did “in Europe”, or in previous centuries – eating glatt, dressing up kids as Talmidei Chachamim, getting news from social media, sending a mass of people to yeshivos instead of working, sending girls to schools, relying on tzedokah or even non-Jewish welfare, making 100 shuls abd shtibles with different minhagim in the same place, following minhagim from schools instead of parents, switching to “nusach sefard”. Hope I did not miss anyone :).
I am not arguing that these changes have no reason behind them, just that we do change things, so using the “tradition” argument is not that easy.
> Indefinite war or end the war and let the Taliban take over
Should we be honored that apparently Mr Biden himself is posting here? Maybe he is afraid that twitter would ban this as disinformation.
More reasonable choice was between (1) leaving while minimizing losses and (2) staying in small remote numbers supporting gov troops from the air. (1) did not happen as everyone understands now, (2) is open for discussion – whether Taliban would have resumed attacking US forces after US would say we are staying. Trump was seemingly trying to find a 3rd way – force all stubborn sides (Gov, warlords, Taliban) to negotiate dangling various sticks and carrots: when gov does not make peace w/ warlords, US talks to Talban… If Taliban does not negotiate, bomb them again and refuse to leave, etc. Would it have worked? nobody knows, but there was a chance. Is AFG harder than Israel-Arab agreement?
Technically, (2) was worth trying: keep US troops safely on bases, flying planes and throwing missiles. Gov would have continued fighting and it would not be worse than now.
Well, Lakewood NJ was chosen as such. How did that work out?!
how about parents’ basement?
OrechDin, this journal is not high there, but it is a valid academic publication, and gofundme should be OK for the current emergency. this is not a time for writing NIH proposals. I see above that an underlying study was a fraud, that’s an issue.
Also, they have maybe 10 different questions and only one of them (an important one, though) has moderate confidence, all the rest are low confidence. if you look at overall multi-test statistics – a chance to have one moderate out of 10 tests – would indicate low confidence inthe overall result. It is as if you throw dice 10 times, then select the highest value out of 10 and say that your “average” is 10 out of 12.
that said, it is a valid strategy to search through existing medicines to see if any of them would help. The benefit is that safety is already known and manufacturing exists. So, if there is a way to improve outcome even by a small number (as these tests seem to indicate), it is worth trying.
There may be some hidden correlations that help in some cases. For example, it is possible that extra vitamins are very helpful in places with deficiency of that vitamin, but less in others
Avira> klal yisroel accepted on themselves to keep glatt in America (many in Europe did not), as part of strengthening kashrus
this is probably true, but if we define “klal israel” broadly to include various people who eat kosher but whom you may not necessarily respect, moev to glatt is probably due to marketing strategy of certifying agencies who want to have a broad standard accepted by stricter communities, I believe somewhere in the 80s, possibly also re-definig “glatt” to minimally acceptable, and even down to proverbial glatt chickens.
> when people claim that children who were abused are abusive parents themselves
It appears to be true statistically, and also mentioned by the Rabbis who write about these issues.
You are right that these people have an opportunity, and a mitzvah, to turn this around, but it is a challenge that they need to realize and approach accordingly. This is discussed in halakha when discussing children punished for the sins of parents – presuming they continue the sins.
Gadol > news-release
I am not sure what motivates you to launch partisan counter-attacks while admitting the failures of the big guy you voted for. As if you are on the campaign staff. Why not discuss what is important and how it affects all of us. Generally, number of people who disapprove of Biden went up from 44 to 49% faster than previous disapproval growth. That is, even such a disastrous performance affected just 10% of the supporters. Shows how crazy partisan we all are.
Avira> what relevance is there to note how someone or another feels about it? …
They didn’t take into consideration what average baalebatim felt, so why should we?How someone feels can definitely affect a psak. Simple cases are in Gemora when a new Derabonan needs some time to see if people will accept it. And we also have halochos that are based on how we expect people to behave. for a random example (hi Beitza 2!) a suggestion that yom tov requires more gedorim than Shabbos because people might be laxer about it. I would venture to say, if Rabbis would not think of how people could make mistakes, then there will be no need for gedorim at all.
A recent example I read somewhere – there was a yeshiva bocher in Old Country who dared to (mistakenly) say “no tachanun today” during davening. The Gabbai called him up and “respectfully” suggested to take a place near the bimah. In exactly same case in modern Israel, R Ouerbach whispered to the gabbai “skip the tachanun” not to embarrass the person. So, halakha of tochacha in this case depends on where the person, and society in general, holds.
We seem to sometimes take positions to oppose our challengers – Reform does Tikun Olam, so we withdraw; others insist on faith, so we re-focus on performing mitzvos. L’Chavero is something that secular society does both on personal and societal level, so we unconsciously value them less.
RebE> ben adam lechavero includes ben adam lamakom hence greater but that does not mean to neglect the latter.
While balance may be a good start, there are several reasons to do more in L’Chavero:
1) there is always room for error in L’Chavero: these mitzvos depend on the other person and you can always make a mistake evaluating another person. For example, you think $10 is good enough to pay a worker, but he might think that he deserves $20. You think that coming on time to a class is respectful, the Rav might be offended that you are not there 10 minutes before. You bring a present to your wife, and she thinks that you did not bring it last year … this is way more likely that your halav stam will have camel milk in it. So, being machmir will keep you from an actual aveira2) in addition to a mitzva, you are helping an actual person. See Chafetz Chaim story on doing kiddush before piyutim for a hungry guest. And as RebE is saying, any mitzva L’Chavero includes L’makom, so it’s like 3x effect.
3) if you want to be machmir in learning, same thing – L’chavero involves more details and requires more knowledge, and changes with time and place, so makes sense to spend more time on it.
ujm> very sad that you think Bein Adam Lamakom is chopped liver, Very sad, indeed, as Bein Adam Lamakom is as important as Bein Adam L’Chaveiro. Furthermore, it’s quite disappointing that you fail to recognize that not dressing provocatively in public is very much a Bein Adam L’CHAVEIRO issue.
Maybe I was not clear. Possibly as RebE points out because I was to tactful. I am not rejecting items on your list and not saying that mitzvot bein Adam L’makom are not important.
I am pointing out that it is unbalanced. And I admitted that tzniut has an aspect of L’Havero. This is just a sad re-telling of an old joke about a guy whose milk was taken in beis medrash despite a notice of “DO NOT STEAL” until he wrote also “halav stam”…
So, again, I am suggesting not only to add items to your list, but also to review your motivations for these chumros, as the unbalanced nature of the list reveals some core problems. Just superficially adding things for balance will not fix the original hesaron.
There is a Gemora that a youngele is coming to see, I think, Rav Yehudah, who asks him why he has no sudar on his head. He replies that he is not married, and R Yehudah turns away from him in disapproval… It seems, superficially, that expectations were for only married guys to wear the head-covering, but also stricter expectations on getting married, so it may be same at the end …
Of course, this is not a complete proof, as some interpret this as sudar being on top of a hat on top of kippah. Not sure if we have other similar cultural referencesI agree with the generational approach. People who remember ravaging anti-semitism, whether in Russia, Germany, or USA, behave accordingly. Also, the “melting pot” pre-60s view made it very difficult not to look like others, and corresponding reaction from others. Even in our time, Jews in Paris, I think are more careful walking around identifying openly as Jews.
Years ago, someone finishing medical school, sporting a kippah, of course, had an interview with a doctor in NYC. The doctor did not have a kippah, but at some point walkling around hospital, he oured himself a cup of water, went with this guy into an empty office, closed the door, and took a kippah from his pocket to say a brocha.
ujm, it is shocking that none of your chumrot examples involve mitzvos being Adam LeHavero. It is all focused on yourself. Well, maybe tzniyut is to make it easier on other people’s eyes, but probably more on maintaining your own status.
I don’t think it will help if you add a couple of extra things there, your current unbalanced list is a good indication of improper motivations. Maybe this is something to think about.
>> “not studying professions”
> You are such a haterAt least you are not defending slavery 🙂 I think this belongs on the list here. It is pretty reasonable from the traditional POV to be afraid of liberal education, but participating in modern economy requires certain skills. Same way Jews knew how to dry figs, make shoes, bread, and spices, with all professional secrets involved, we need to know how to write software, know American law and medicine. We just need to realize inherent biases we have and achieve educational goals without compromising traditional values.
If someone gives you a small vanilla cake, while you would love a big strawberry one – do you thank them or blame them?
you are definitely allowed to learn lessons from your upbringing and fix what you need to fix. Of course, after careful study and making sure what you think are errors are actual errors.
And be careful not to repeat the same things in your family. This often happens…
R Pliskin brings a question from someone – how can I NOT repeat same patterns as I was exposed to them every day.
Question back – did you ever witness proper behavior?
Yes, when I visited my friends’ families, but this would be once a month, while the rest of the time I was exposed to incorrect behavior
Answer: Play good behavior that you saw in your mind multiple times, and then majority of your experience will be good behavior.GH > I’ll not venture to speculate which party ranks higher on the arrogance/hypocrisy meter on any given day.
Human nature is the same on both sides. But, when one side tends to change things and decide for others, and the other prefers the old ways and advocates less concentrated power, then yetzer hara would exhibit itself in a different ways.
There is more room for lying and arrogance when a navi sheker is proposing to save the world and offer people new solutions: workers will run the factories, government will print money for you, etc.
Traditionalists get into intellectual holes when they advocate things that clearly need to be changed – slavery, not studying professions, rejecting masks/vaccines – but this is a much smaller field.> back to the Comedian in Chief, $80 billion + in arms were left for the Taliban
I do not disagree. They are busy now writing new lines in the comedy:
1) “according to the advise of military Chiefs” referring to various minute decisions like leaving Kabul without picking up all citizens (green card holders and eligible refugees are not even mentioned). So, Biden makes major decisions himself (strategic – to leave, and tactical – to leave in time for 9/11 anniversary, abandon Baghram, etc), puts military into a dangerous position in an airport in the middle of the city, surrounded by Taliban “protection”, and then throws them under the bus for any decision they make after those blunders.2) “Ending the military mission was the best way to protect the lives of our troops — and secure the prospects of civilian departures for those who want to leave Afghanistan in the weeks and months ahead,” talking points from WH to Dems leaked out today (finally, leaks started coming).
So, leave them to protect them better …All this energy managing their reputation could have been used on thinking what could happen in advance. But, if you have a team experienced in politics, they’ll do what they know how to do.