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We also discussed here a balance between different area – should you spend more effort in chumros in one area while you disregard others?
It is a hard question. On one hand, it is silly to see someone who, say, dresses machmir and then parks his car on a sidewalk. On the other hand, everyone naturally has certain talents and interests and should not throw them away. If someone is a talented piano player, you would not want him to work day and night on his science classes. Similarly, yes, Avraham was given a couple of tests that went against his middah of Hesed, but he still spent most of his life in hesed, instead of kicking kids out of home or threatening them with knives. Those were tests, not lifetime occupation.
SO, I think, as long as you realize there are these trade-offs between being machmir in something special and your general level, and them consciously select where to be machmir, you are OK. But if you are simply following “popular” chumros and not examine yourself, you are not.
philosopher> drones
this is a little ahistorical – drones were rare and not capable to wage a war in 2001. At some point at that time, I think, Gen McCrystal was running a drone operation and a feed was cut – because Pentagon generals wanted to control such an important operation.
> google scholar whatever that is,
google scholar is a search engine for searching published papers. It refers back to multiple scientific databases. It is not same as regular consumer google or youtube. You don’t have to use them, you can use NIH pubmed, researchgate, arxiv, proquest, sciencedirect, jstar, ebsco and various other collections to find research papers and also citations from those papers to newer papers that refer to them.
RebE,> Why don’t the Biden advisors resign?
This is exactly the question everyone is asking. There is a Marine LtCol who just asked this question while still in uniform and is losing his position….According to what I read, they do not resign because they (1) share his views to begin with, especially those without military experience (all of them in close circle except the SecDef) (2) they have nowhere to go, they grew in politics with Biden, they don’t have any other home. Again, not my view, the lefty investigators who are trying to think over the disaster. If they were to publish this earlier, maybe things would have gone differently.
Look up, for example, Sec of State bio: he went to right schools, then was deputy of this and deputy of that. His achievements include developing this and that policy, including the infamous Biden’s plan to tri-partition Iraq, Obama’s (non) “responses” to Crimea and Syria. His couple of years in “private” sector earned him a $1 mln for consulting private companies how to get contracts with the government that he just worked for. If he quits and burns bridges to the government, nobody will ever hire him.
RW > Even YouTube comments on both right and left wing news outlets are 95% against these mandates
You got captured by an Algorithm! this Tube will show you what you like. The more you click on something, the more it shows you same thing. Try unbiasing yourself. instead of google, youtube, or some entertainment sites, go to medline or google scholar – that has scientific publications and search for neutral words, say, “vaccine efficacy” (not biased terms like “vaccines do not work” or “vaccines are perfect”) – and then read summaries of several papers. This will give you a better slice of what research shows.
You guys inspired me, I’m starting a website selling kamiyot strictly upon Rambam’s mesorah. Some old ones signed by Rambam himself with the kavanot he developed in his later years.
RebE> When you always follow your own instincts, people around you realize that their good advice is not required and is ignored.
RebE, I think you simply wish your own sensitivity on people you voted for. Where are your examples of Biden doing something against his instincts and following an advice. Do we need to quote Bob Gates again?
I brought a mixed example written up before the election by one of the Biden’s agitators – that Biden continued publicly defending his idea of dividing Iraq in parts, while privately conceding that he is wrong and not pushing it further. This is still not when he was a “decider”.
Avira >> so long as they are wearing a yarmulkah
I understand that there are exceptions to this also, such as professions where yarmulka may interfere with a mission or where one may be disadvantaged: legal, medical, government … We may see this less often in our times due to liberalism/multi-cultism, but in previous generations there were a lot of pretty religious people who did not cover their hats. It actually may be a sterotype among haredim, less knowledgeable than Avira, that this is MO MO (modus operandi): I was telling a hevrusa a story how someone in rural South reacted to my yarmulka, and he was genuinely surprised that I was wearing one at work there.
Re: hats and kings
Are you guys THAT sure that all Jews were always wearing black hats, especially imported and expensive ones? Using your analogy, what if I enter the King’s palace and dress as a minister and the King finds out that I am a simple visitor with a humble request?! He’ll surely call police to throw me out of the palace. I think I am better off dressing up as a simple peasant I am, in a poshute British suit. At least, maybe the King will have rochmonus and listen to me!
I imagine it would be even scarier to have a 100 of my friends, all dressed up as Talmidei Chachamim, come to the King as a group, pushing and shoving. When one of us double-parks near the palace interfering with the Royal procession, the whole group will be arrested and sent to Gulag regardless of individual merit.
Back to the concert, there is a story of R Salanter visiting Konengsberg, a busy modern merchant city. First several times there, he declined an invitation to speak. After that, he talked about shabbos and said – I understand that vessels cost a lot of money and it is hard not to unload them, but could you at least not write down a list of merchandize on Shabbos? Later, he suggested to unload vessels, but not to load the new merchandize, etc. Why did he missed first several weeks? Because there was a visiting Litvak in the shul and R Salanter did not want to give him any ideas about breaking Shabbos. So, a concert might be good for some, but not for others.
ujm > If you don’t know how to bring up your children, send them to foster care.
off topic, but this is what most people do. There are some rare individuals who either teach kids themselves or sign up as teachers to be teaching their own kids, but most people prefer going to an office, or even WFH lately, while delegating mitzvos of shinantam levanecha, teaching profession, and even swimming. It is a miracle that most are still doing pru urvu themselves!
Avira > it says to do so even if he screams at you “ad hacaah” until he hits you.
I think it is a machlokes whether you need to wait until he actually hits you, or you need to stop when you see him ready to hit. Given the realities of the 2nd amendment in USA, I would stop earlier to make sure I can continue giving tochacha.
> Just as it someone doesn’t know how to fulfill any other obligation, he should learn how to
There is a profound differences between learning how to do schehita or how to give tochacha. Mitzvot bein adam l’Havero require understanding the other person. Same tochacha may inspire one person and leave another one depressed. For some smart kid, when the Rav explains that he runs the shul according to the people who are there, it may be a step into Rabanut, sociology or psychology; for an emesdik Avira it was a reason to reject the Rav.
So, I am all for people trying to learn it, but do not expect everyone to succeed! Even if they learn everything from their teachers, it might not help – as generations change, and what worked 20 years ago might not work now.
There is one safe method of tochacha that has less side effects – demonstrate the correct way by your own behavior.
ujm > Sefer HaChinuch perek 239
ujm, thanks a lot for the reference! This sefer – that I would probably never find by myself – helps me understand the issue. I continued reading this whole perek and found further excellent advice – that in cases where the listener is not getting it, not to do it, including a reference to Yevamot 65b – that you can fulfil either a mitzva of giving tochacha when needed, or not give one when it should not be.
I also notice that the next perek 240 talks about a prohibition of embarrassing. I wonder whether these two prokim are connected somehow.
Anyway, I hope this is a good illustration of a tochacha given the nice way!
RebE > Biden listens to his competent advisors
not true factually: It is well documented that military did not like the idea of leaving Afghanistan in all administrations, and Biden was advising Obama not to listen to them long time ago.
left-wing reports describe a different picture, unfortunately: his advisors are first selected to conform to his views (see McCain objecting to Blinken appointment some years ago including his views on Afganistan), and also group-think where advisors are aware of his views and not contradicting him, partly because it is futile, partly because it is bad for their careers. Note that most advisors raised up by being Biden advisors and no other independent experience. This is as old as Sanhedrin discussions of Bar Kamtzah ..
One of the articles mentions, inter alia, a similar circumstance during Obama admin in 2014 when advisors came to 2014 meeting on Russia with certain ideas, but when they heard President advocating the opposite, they did not present their views.
Compare with Trump who had a number of people who contradicted him, sometimes he listened to them, sometimes he did not. sometimes he was right, sometimes he was not. Most of that became public before there was an action, so there were proper discussions in the society. Abrahamic accords and giving lethal weapons to Ukraine was done against State dept ideas, dealing with IS was done by allowing Dept of Defense do what they were not allowed by Obama.
Gadol > believe Trump knew what he was doing on ANY national security issue,
A left-wing rag recently ran a discussion with their experts asking them a ridiculous (for them) question – was there one thg that Trump did right? Five experts had five different items. You are an educated person, I am sure you can name some yourself. For your own sake, write them down on a piece of paper. You don’t have to post it here, you can just burn it after. Just tell us how many items were on the list 🙂
This discussion should separate theology from sociology. I see a list of MO problems to include girls learning Gemora and inappropriate tzniut and keeping shabbos. Are you suggesting, like R Eliezer, that these problems are connected – that girls find tirutzim in Gemora to go dancing in Shabbos? I don’t think so.
Maybe confusing issue is putting everyone who is lacking observance into “MO”. MO schools invite both families looking for “MO” experience for kids and those who simply want to send kids to a posh Jewish school. This is both negative experience for the kids from the first group and hopefully positive experience for the latter.
So, to see the effect of the school you should not simply point to graduates and see how they behave but compare students before and after they go to the school. This is now a recognized metric in education evaluating teachers and schools. Maybe someone with more knowledge about these schools can provide their observations.
> doesn’t absolve you from your chiyuv to give tochacha. And the obligation is upon every Jew.
Except people who are not capable of doing tochacha right, which probably includes most of us.
2SC > A better question would be, does anyone know the long term side effects of acquiring the Covid 19 virus
I agree that unknown risk of a bat or Chinese virus is higher than of a vaccine developed by responsible scientists. note the terms that RW and others introduced – “natural immunity” as if they are taking Vitamins. Not sure whether this is a proper scientific term, or Chinese are marketing their virus this way 🙂
Offtopic, but why I have Rambam open on Halakhot Deos – on a need to work:
יא
דֶּרֶךְ בַּעֲלֵי דֵּעָה שֶׁיִּקְבַּע לוֹ אָדָם מְלָאכָה הַמְפַרְנֶסֶת אוֹתוֹ תְּחִלָּה. וְאַחַר כָּךְ יִקְנֶה בֵּית דִּירָה. וְאַחַר כָּךְ יִשָּׂא אִשָּׁה. שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (דברים כ ו) “מִי הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר נָטַע כֶּרֶם וְלֹא חִלְּלוֹ”. (דברים כ ה) “מִי הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר בָּנָה בַיִת חָדָשׁ וְלֹא חֲנָכוֹ”. (דברים כ ז) “מִי הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר אֵרַשׂ אִשָּׁה וְלֹא לְקָחָהּ”. אֲבָל הַטִּפְּשִׁין מַתְחִילִין לִשָּׂא אִשָּׁה וְאַחַר כָּךְ אִם תִּמְצָא יָדוֹ יִקְנֶה בַּיִת וְאַחַר כָּךְ בְּסוֹף יָמָיו יְחַזֵּר לְבַקֵּשׁ אֻמָּנוּת אוֹ יִתְפַּרְנֵס מִן הַצְּדָקָה. וְכֵן הוּא אוֹמֵר בַּקְּלָלוֹת (דברים כח ל) “אִשָּׁה תְאָרֵשׂ” (דברים כח ל) “בַּיִת תִּבְנֶה” (דברים כח ל) “כֶּרֶם תִּטַּע”. כְּלוֹמַר יִהְיוּ מַעֲשֶׂיךָ הֲפוּכִין כְּדֵי שֶׁלֹּא תַּצְלִיחַ אֶת דְּרָכֶיךָ. וּבַבְּרָכָה הוּא אוֹמֵר (שמואל א יח יד) “וַיְהִי דָוִד לְכָל דְּרָכָו מַשְׂכִּיל וַה’ עִמּוֹ”:The way of sensible men is that first, one should establish an occupation by which he can support himself. Then, he should purchase a house to live in and then, marry a wife. [This order of priorities may be inferred from Deuteronomy 20:5-7], which states: “Who is the man who has planted a vineyard, but not redeemed it…;” “who is the man who has built a house, but not dedicated it…;” “who is the man who has betrothed a woman, but not taken her [to wife]…”
In contrast, a fool begins by marrying a wife. Then, if he can find the means, he purchases a house. Finally, towards the end of his life, he will search about for a trade or support himself from charity.
[This is also implied by the order of] the curses mentioned [in Deuteronomy 28:30]: “You shall betroth a woman…, you shall build a house…, you shall plant a vineyard;” i.e., your behavior will be disordered so that you will not succeed in your ways. However, in regard to blessing [I Samuel 18:14] states: “And David was thoughtful in all his undertakings and God was with him.”
Avira,
Litvishe Yeshivot – a good point that their regular clothes were due to self-confidence. Possibly also because Lithuanians did not represent a cultural challenge the way Poland or USA do.A good idea to look at Rambam! In Deos 5:9, he is saying this about clothes:
clothing should be attractive and clean… no stains ..not wear regal garb,.. nor the dress of the poor which shames its wearers, but attractive garments of the middle range.
flesh should not be visible … should not drag on the ground
dress as befits [his income] (not more or less)I don’t see anything here about being different from others – respectable and middle class. British suit sounds good – if you can afford it.
> That letter can’t be true, because we have eye witness testimony
I am not a big expert on Israeli politics and Rav Kook and I understand that both sides are prone to exaggerate. Is there something in Ch Ch SIL bio that makes you suspect that he is not saying the truth? Or are you claiming that the letter is a forgery? Maybe you can look into that given that this is a documentary evidence that directly contradicts your body of knowledge.
I apologize, I looked at the wrong rows when analyzing the data, please disregard that post. Correcting:
early treatment shows consistent 50% improvement but with very small sample sizes: 3 out of 7 studies that had >100 people (100 to 300) in each of the arms have 12%, 16%, 37% improvement.
So, it is some modest improvement with not a lot of data. Understand that for early treatments, we are talking low mortality, so 100 patients = 4 deaths, the numbers are really low.Prophylaxis has 5 studies with 400+ people in each arm with 30% improvement
late treatment: much more data, 17% improvement on average, but all big trials negatives
so, overall seems that HCQ is somewhat helpful and should be used early, maybe as prophylaxis upon exposure
Health, I looked at the underlying hcqmeta site referred in Medscape Aug 21 article. Here is what results actually say. I am looking at only RCT (randomized controlled) not “early” tests:
Prophylaxis gets some 20% on average improvement
Late treatment shows 50% improvement
Early treatment results – many show improvement 505 on average, but most are very small. biggest ones Recovery, Solidarity show that HCQ is worse than controls. These studies also seem to be on sicker patients (10-25% dying in controls), while many positive studies have 1-10% dying.There is also 2x less benefit in North America comparing with all other regions
Overall, it seems it seems from this analysis that HCQ is moderately beneficial, but not under all conditions and not for all people.
Avira, I presume you meant “minim”, these are people who attack us with religious differences – Tzdikim, Notzrim, Reformim …. Are you applying this term to Israelis playing soccer on Shabbat? Confused.
> bracha for safe travel will reduce the balding of tires.
probably only if you checked the pressure before travel and drove carefully. I doubt that bracha absolves of personal responsibility.
2scents, actually numbers you are quoting show some HCQ benefit across multiple studies. Even if each of them is below stat significance, they jointly will not be.
24% v 30% in placebo had symptoms
4 hospitalized v 8 or 10
1 died in both
0.27 events per year v 0.38
11.8 % v 14.3%Cochrane review is a gold standard for meta-studies, trying to evaluate significance from multiple independent trials. Feb 2021 B Singh et al Chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for prevention and treatment of COVID‐19 shows no benefit for HCQ in both treatment and prophylactics.
Syag> This is NOT the case according to the er nurse and healthcare workers I’ve been checking in with. Please,acknowledge that your assumption on this is NOT the case.
Baruch Hashem, I am saying – to watch, I do not have definite data. As I mentioned, a friend recently got back from ICU – did not vaccinate because he was slightly sick before, and there were some cases in the news also.
The question is – how to monitor and mitigate. I do not have confidence that the same people who were not careful first time, will now be able to monitor the situation.
your ER nurses mention unvaccinated – do they ask them if these unvaxed had symptoms last year? used this to make a decision not to vax? I would presume that unvaxed people in general commmunity would be similar in behaviors to the ones in the community – the ones who were not isolating before, probably younger, etc. Maybe you can clarify more what they said.
Syag> This is exactly what’s happening. I have been trying to get you to acknowledge/hear that for months.
Syag, if you are saying that your community indeed did not take precautions and got so sick early on, and this is indeed true, then you should all put black clothes on and sit and fast for the great number of people that were killed and sick, rather then explaining that now is a great time to go to vacations.
2sc> noting an observation.
I see. It may be true that communities that were not careful were more exposed at the beginning, had very high rates then, and lower rates later. I don’t think it gave any overall benefits though, unless older people were strictly isolated. More than 50% of transmissions happen in the family, so if kids got it, they will transmit to parents and then to grandparents.
But your observation highlights importance of the discussed question whether previously sick require a vaccine, especially if those sick were in the early months and now more than a year passed and new variants are around, so some people might think that they are still protected when they are not.
and there is probably a positive correlation between those who were not careful l’hathila and got sick and vaccine hesitancy, so this cluster – sick early and not vaccinated – is one to watch for increase in disease, and, presumably, recommend to take one does of mRNA or JJ.
Sometimes I miss someone’s posts and fail to ask a question, and the poster may feel that his position is unquestionable. Sorry for that?
Avira > daven three times a day for apikorsim to die.
you are messing up my davening! I was looking and looking for apikorsim in Amidah. Something is wrong with mine or with yours… The brocha seems to be concerned with people who seek to harm us – minim (not in my version), malshinim, zeidim … you might have a real old siddur if it says “notzrim”, but who has apikorsim in this brocha?
Gadol> Its the only show in town that will provide temporary comic diversion from the tragedy evolving from Biden’s misguided Afghanistan withdrawal.
A pretty round-about way to say it, but who said teshuva is easy … Maybe contact your elected officials and let them know how you feel to help reverse whatever is possible? People who voted (D) but are disappointed now are the ones who can move the politicos.
2scents, you seem to consider an advantage for the community to get natural immunity quickly. If you mean that almost anyone gets sick, then it means that everyone at risk got sick and possibly died. I don’t think you mean that. I see two ways to get advantage of natural immunity:
1) expose young mobile population to virus. they are responsible for propagation, and thus protect elderly as yungeles will not be infecting them. Interesting idea, but it requires some discipline during that early stage – youngsters get sick but do not communicate with elders. Might have worked with those elders who isolated, like it seem R’ Edelstein @ Ponevezh did. Still, a lot of propagation goes through middle age working age population and exposing them all might mean a lot of death. Maybe this could have worked early on – ship all younsters – or all elderly – to a different location (Catskills, Florida) for a month, let youngsters get sick, and bring everyone back.
2) get early virus to avoid later deadlier variant. So far, it seems that “popular” strains alpha, delta are more contagious rather than more deadly.
In regards to Risch paper, there is a March 2021 Lancet paper (see at the end) that refers to Risch and concludes that were no benefits. There was also a letter showing that described non-randomized experiments were not statistically valid. To trace this further, you can go to medline or pubmed or google scholar or any other citation system, find the paper you care about, and then look up later papers that cite your paper. Some may just include it into a list, but some might actually be a follow-up.
from a quick review pf Risch paper, I noticed 2 things:
1) a way to correct non-randomized trials is to match patients by their demographics – age, gender, health status. I don’t see this done
2) paper quotes one result that HCQ-AZ achieves 25x benefit, while HCQ by itself achieves 4x benefit. Given that later argument shifted to HCQ-AZ helps while HCQ does not, the quoted 4x benefit is a red flag – if this is a false conclusionChristine Johnston et al, Hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin for treatment of early SARS-CoV-2 infection among high-risk outpatient adults: A randomized clinical trial
> alwaysask, you dont own this country so please refrain from giving advice as if you are some sort of ruler.
I am giving an advice as a friend, rulers do not advise, they order. We live in a country/world that is ruled by many nations. You don’t need to run out of your wits if not everything is perfect. Generations of Jews lived honestly while being governed by much worse rulers than we do.
2sc > Re the data for the lack if increase in Covid cases, more so hospitalized cases, I am not sure it’s possible to obtain such data.
In a previous discussion here, when someone asked a similar question, I compared publicly available numbers for Lakewood with nearby counties. At that point, the deaths were, I recall, 2x higher and 4x higher if you correct by (lower) percentage of old people in Lakewood. That poster did not reply. Check the archive. Feel free to re-do the numbers for current period – maybe immunity safeguarded Lakewood community going forward and the comparison looks better now. Or look up some other Charedi town in US or Israel. Your move.
Possibly stand corrected: an online source that I can not fully vet mentions the story of R Kook potential visit to two communities as sourced from Yated Neeman (undated) and it says that this is what Hazon Ish replied to someone saying that he heard the rumor of Ch. Ch coming to EY. That explains why I read this in Hazon Ish Hagada …
A possible piece of evidence – a 1928 letter, a pretty late period. Maybe you can trace this and verify whether the letter and the translation I am quoting below are genuine:
from Rav Aharon HaKohen .. Author of the book ‘Avodat HaKorbanot’ Son in law of the Gaon Israel Meir HaKohen Shlit”a author of the book Chafetz Chaim and Mishna Brura.
I know that my master and teacher, the Chafetz Chaim Shlit”a – who honors and is very fond of the honorable Gaon Avraham Yitzchak HaKohen Shlit”a and whose heart was greatly sickened when he heard of the persecutions against [the Rav] – did not come out with public rebuke regarding this, saying that silence regarding such matters and the reduction of their publicity is [the proper way] to repair them – [that is] to lessen and reduce their value. (nevertheless, no one dares utter words of disparagement against our teacher Rav Avaraham Yitzchak HaKohen Shlit”a in front of our master[, the Chafetz Chaim,] and he would turn his eyes with contempt from any posters
However, when I recently saw that a periodical that has appeared – which arrogantly dares to call itself “meeting place of the sages” – wrote horrible, cursed, and blasphemous words against our teacher Rav Avaraham Yitzchak HaKohen Shlit”a – [words which] are forbidden to even put in print – I find it a holy obligation in my soul not to be silent (as is explicit in the Rambam הלכות ת”ת פ”ו הל’ יא-יב). [This is because] someone who disparages a Torah scholar has no portion in the world to come, and is in the category of one who “despises the Word of Hashem” (כי דבר ה’ בזה), and we are obligated to banish him.
missed the reply from Avira> they meticulously keep sefardi minhagim and mesorah, and the yeshiva dress is just that – because they are bnei Torah. .. My point was that they dropped their goyishe dress that is common in the uneducated elements
I know of Sephardi Rabbis who explicitly teach their community to meticulously follow the general community, such as using Asheknazi Eruvim (that some Chasidim would not using their understanding of “Sefard”) – and dress like the Ashkenazi Bnei Torah.
And how is their Goyishe Turban is worse than a Goiyishe Kapota or a German suit? We all pick up things, sometimes worthy, sometimes not.
> abtibodies might not work for delta variant, whereas the vaccine does.
should we say, the difference is b’dieved v. lehathilah?
2scents,
also anecdotally, in my community that has people coming from very different backgrounds, all clusters that I heard of came after people came from visiting those “normal” communities and then immediately going to shul or sending kids to school. In some cases, clusters grew somewhat due to some local individuals not staying in quarantine, but otherwise were stopped by adherence to quarantine and school closing protocols. Again, this is anecdotal, but no less solid that your statement that many communities were not affected.RW > They have slowly taken away peoples liberties,
Look, you have to come to terms that you live in an imperfect democratic country that has a Supreme Court ruling from a 100 years ago that enables (state?) government to force vaccinations. Jews lived in many countries over centuries that had much more difficult policies. You can either get a shot, hire a lawyer, or move to another country. Last I heard, Talibs do not require shots, and I am sure they’d love to have 2 Jews in their Emirate.
2sc> but as an individual we cannot decide to make this into a torah ruling and even compare this to the mitzvah of sukkah. At least until our Rabbis and leaders do not tell us so.
You are free to ask your posek, of course for precise boundaries. Let us know what he says, please. But you probably aware that there are some mitzvot that are defined very precisely (tefilin, mezuza, more often bein Adam l’Makom), and sometimes generic ones – ahavta reeha kamoha. I apologize not listing all relevant mitzvos, dont have energy right now to go back to all halakhic sources I read, you are welcome either to look up teshuvot or, again, ask your posek, and let us know.
2scents: have normal minyanim and normal gatherings, have not seen any worrying increase in covid cases
I would appreciate the data. All the data on Israel and several zip codes in US hat I checked indicated higher rates, unfortunately. A number of elderly Rabbis passed away. You might be deceived by the highly clustered nature of this virus – it might be raging in one community and go around a similar nearby one by pure chance. We saw many stories written about countries, like Sweden, that found magic solutions – and then, over time, they regressed to a mean. Or, maybe you are talking about young communities with less older people.
healyj > I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about.
you can see all trials registered at gov ClinicalTrials site.
conbat covid HHS site lists 19 trials, 11 of them active
UK Recovery trial has trials at 186 sites with 40,000 patients
WHO/International Solidarity trial at 600 sites, 14,000 patientsI am not saying that everything they do is perfect, but it is a considerable effort.
Again, if you think Zelenko protocols superior to official trials, organize a real trial according to established practices – register your trial before you do it, use randomization, etc.Health,
there are multiple trials going on around the world for treatments, not just vaccines, including the drugs you are mentioning. If you think that they were not tested under a correct protocol, which is completely plausible, go to some “fund me” site, have you and 1000 of other like-minded people donate 1,000 each, and have your own trial going somewhere in Latin America or India. In fact, if you so sure in your theory, I am not sure what justifies you not doing that? each of you probably spend 100 hours researching this topic, that is worth more 1,000 dollars, go act on that!When non-Jews will complain that they were not given a fair chance, they would be given a mitzva of Sukkah that they are gonna to kick due to minor inconvenience (Sukkah is making us too hot and preventing flow of oxygen!). So, maybe COVID provides a similar pre-Moschiach test, giving everyone first a simple mitzva to wear a mask and SD. When even that was hard, Hashem sent a 2-shot vaccine – or a one-shot for those who found a 2-shot hard. Hopefully, more people will avail themselves to these simple mitzvos instead of kicking them and the world will be in the right spot.
Teiku!
It is such a sod that Eliahu did not even teach the proper kavanos to Elisha, leading to untimely death of several union thugs in Yericho.
If Hashem wouldn’t want us to worry, he wouldn’t tell us to make a fence on the roof. We were talking a lot about going to shul, but why bother if you don’t listen to the message.