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Maybe what people are bothered here is a slight for the human tragedy in favor of a theological explanation. As in Yoma 23, where one Kohen stubs another while competing for a job, and the father of the dying one says – look, he is still alive, so if you take the knife out now, it will be tahor. Next question – did they take tahora very seriously, or did tey take murder too lightly? A similar question may be asked for someone using a korbon comparison – the speaker may be trying to elevate, but he runs a risk of sounding callous.
if you can download a file of the shiur, many players will allow you changing the speed of playing it. I think VLC does
> Why is the inequality between the rich and the poor constantly growing?
maybe it seems so because we all are becoming richer and also have more access to information?
also, you may be looking at most recent events:
Indeed, According to ourworld of data income inequality, income of top 1% in UK was 20% of GDP in 1918, went slowly down to 5% in 1980 and back to 15% in 2005, fell to 12% in 2009. In US, it was 20% in 1920s, went down to 11% in 1977, and went up to 20% in 80s and 90s and stays there. Other former British countries show similar pattern in the 20s century with the bottom at 1980.
France, Japan, Spain, Denmark peaked in 1920s at 20-25%, went down to 5-10% in 1940 and stayed there. I wonder how much inequality decreased after USSR disintegrated and communists started owning a lot of things openly, instead of keeping it all secretly.what about longer history? Gini index in UK stayed between 40 and 50 between 1700 and 1910, lowered to 25 in 1977 and went up to 35 in 1995 and stayed there
a quick search shows estimates that Augustus owned 20% of Roman Empire, Genghis Khan and Chinese emperor Shenzong owned 30% of world GDP.
so, things are much better now.
RebE >> Some states care and others don’t. what should the Federal government do?
by Reb Adam Smith, free enterprise is good by definition as every exchange is considered beneficial for both sides. If you destroy the freedom premise, you destroy this underlying guarantee of success.
except the most egregious cases, many Americans can – and do – vote with their feet. So, you can be in a state that taxes and distributes profits and provides free health care. There will be some moral hazard though – businesses will move to other states and people who want services will move to yours. So, you may want to establish some residency requirements – no welfare for first 3 years in a state. Most of people in your state will be happy with your policies and you will be re-elected with 90% of votes. Those who don’t like it will move to another state.
Alternatively, you can try to take over federal government and force your love onto 50% of population that disagrees with you.
I can understand the taavah (and gaavah) that socialists and progressives had 100 years ago when they wanted to immediately save the world by taking over countries. But, by now, you should be humble enough to know that not every good-sounding idea works, so why not try it in some states?
I think the same idea works for Jews, as a nation. We are to show other nations that with Torah, we can build a great society, both respecting working people and helping poor, so that they can learn and emulate us וְאָֽמְר֗וּ רַ֚ק עַם־חָכָ֣ם וְנָב֔וֹן הַגּ֥וֹי הַגָּד֖וֹל הַזֶּֽה:
paticipant, look up Radak on naarim ketanim from Yericho confronting Elisha
Maybe exact level of fairness is unsolvable. How about some basic principles:
– we get government involved only when there is no free enterprise solution
– we get federal gov involved only when this issue is not solvable by states
– when we get gov involved, we try not to destroy free enterprise
– we solve problems of higher priority first. Save people before penguins. Deal with commies before killing oil productions.I think we can agree on a lot of things as long as we liit ourselves to such basic limitations
>> If these communities are so welcoming to newly observant outsiders, I definitely will give them a look before I settle down.
I understood the story that they presented themselves as regular members of the community moving from another country, not newly observant. Maybe I misunderstood.
participant – lack of headwear: a lot of hair – Eliahu, lack of hair – Elisha, eaten by bears – member of trade union.
>> a’ you should listen to a random person
> random person in the Yeshiva World coffee room is not the gadolMi hu haham? halomed mikol adam, that’s YWN! And – as we learned in another thread – haham gadol mirav …(ve adif minavi)
on a more serious note: if your parents are not giving you their opinion – maybe they don’t want to push you one way or another. Maybe ask them, or grandparents/uncles, more open-ended questions – what does it mean to be ready/ not ready in your circles? be able to support family? graduate degree? emotionally stable? become tired of learning? when did people in your family get married and how they feel about it later?
choosid > If your rebbe says one way, Gadol says another….then mistama’ you should listen to a random person
I am not sure why people are asking oorim vetumim, or maybe answering. I am surprised why the adults did not explain the rational for their advice. If they did, he could have something to think about. So, he can at least get ideas to explore here, or go back to his parents/teachers and ask for more details.
PS Usual reason not to give reasons is to make the person follow the rule without an ability to apply his biases and get away from the ruling.
participant, sorry for being so slow, that is your question!
I am only using headwear here to presume ethnicity. I would not say call someone Haham just because he wears a turban more than I’ll call someone a Rav because he has a black hat or a Professor because he wears a jacket. Your question goes to R Yannai who invited a person who was dressed like a haver, but did not know how to say a brocho, but still claimed Torah as morasha
huju, Bill Clinton also promised to build a bridge to 21st century … I sometimes wonder how many people would be rushing to take that bridge back to the 20th
Why would an Ashkenazi wear a turban except on Purim? Rabbis of Talmud and Koen godol wore it, but Ashkenazim seem to lose the traditional dress and switch to more European one.
Interestingly, Muslims made dhimmis wear a yellow turban or patch, and then Christians retaliated by making Muslims and Jews wear yellow or red patches .. Seems like in places where Jews continued wearing turban, it was enough for Europeans. But Ashkenazim had to wear patches and also pointed hats. Then, in 17th century both non-Jews and Jews in Eastern Europe/Poland wore shtreimels. Later, Poles switch to new French fashions, and shterimels became fully Jewish.
After Khmelnitsky, Jews running away from Ukraine to Germany made shtreimels more popular there. Interestingly, a 1942 The “Jewish Hat” as an Aspect of Social History
by Raphael Straus claims that emphasis on covering head all the time was connected (maybe in some places?) with Shabbatai Tzvi movementParticipant, maybe I did not travel much lately, but I never met a turban-clad Ashkenazi Rav except on Purim. Rabbis of Bavli and Kohen Godol were earing it, but Ashkenazim seem to have lost the tradition here. Maybe Ashkenazim in Tzefat were wearing turbans?
interestingly, early Muslims required dhimmis to wear yellow patches/yellow turbans, and possibly Christians introduced similar distinct dress for Jews and Muslims as a response.
Asag > flat tax – Why wouldn’t that be fair?
flat tax has an allure of simplicity and looks fair, but really is not. It still takes more money from some people than from others. It also leaves unclear what is considered an income. Are people taxed for doing things themselves, such as washing their own dishes and teaching their own kids, for example?
I do not see anyone in this thread defining their definition of appropriate taxes and support of poor.
We are using our own feelings for what is appropriate and this leads to disagreements…We have certain criteria in halakha who qualifies for tamhui and other types of charity. I am not sure how the criteria change with the changes in wealth of the community… was charity different in Mehuza? Can we try deriving specific rules that can help understand what is appropriate in our times, when we are on average richer than in Mehuza?
participant> rabbi wearing a turban you call him haham, on the other thread a rabbi is “ram
sorry, just saw you complaining that I did not reply. It does look hypocritical for me to be called AAQ and then ignore questions! I am not sure what is the question though – Sephardi Rabbis have an official title “Haham”. The joke is a pun on that. Wiki explains that this is because Muslim consider “Rab” to be a shem Hashem.
I personally prefer R Nathan Kamenetsky’s use of “R” that he invited the reader to imagine any way they want – Rav, Rabbi, Rebbe, Rabban, Rabeinu, Rosh Golah ..
> korban tomid and the avodah waa accomplished by one mishmar oif cohanim
and we had Cohanim ONLY TWICE engage in inappropriate fights for the honor (Yoma 22-23, one knifed, one broken leg) and the Rabbis stopped the races. Why are we less sensitive to human tragedy in our times?
Just heard on the radio a lovely discussion about how to deal with rich people who are apparently a problem because they own too much.
They discussed one of them, a Jewish guy, Nick Hanauer, who is apparently woke enough to advocate for higher min wage, etc. I think his grandparents had a bedding company in Germany before Nazis, then his parents built a company here. Then, crucially, he noticed a young guy Jeff Bezos and said – if you planning to start something, call me, and he invested in Amazon. Not sure whether he was the first or just an early investor, but it went unmentioned that without Nick and people like him, possibly there will be no Amazon, and the whole pandemic people will be standing in line to buy things in Sears …. Of course, Nick himself wants to re-distribute Bezos money to amazon workers.
I wonder why Nick did not put it as a condition for his investment. And, I wonder, whether Bezos would have agree it.
MA > easy ways to calm any uneasy feelings we might have that forty-five people were killed in one night. If this was a natural event, why should we feel bad
We should shudder that while Israel is getting saved from the pandemic tragedy, it gets into another one. This is not derech hateva .. some sources say that typically Jews in Israel, or in a fully Jewish city, would get a message from Hashem, but when Jews live among the nations, we sometimes do not hear the message – whole city/country/world sis punished, so it is not our fault. Seems like in current Israel, the situation is like the latter – there are others, politicians, police, whose fault it is, it is not a message for us …
I think we can feel for the tragedy even when people did something inappropriate… when a child hurts himself, you don’t start chastising him for not following safety rules, you first take care of his pain….
what is not appropriate is blaming others – government, police – or even say “we do not understand your ways Hashem, but we accept it” rather than looking at your own behavior. It is understandable in the face of the tragedy, of course.
R Avigdor Miller talked about a parent who let a strange poor person in, gave him hot tea, then went to bring another cup of tea, while leaving a kid in the room with the stranger who poured hot tea into the kid’s face.. do not say “I do not understand this tragedy while doing a mitzva”, do say “she did an aveirah of leaving a kid with a strange while doing a mitzva and was punished for that”…
Yserbius > Does this mean that you are against any socialist policies?
ont sure who you are asking but every policy need to be evaluated against the damage it brings. Even libraries, for example, prevent authors from selling books, and thus reducing incentives for writing books. Obvious, for welfare. Welfare reform in the 90s showed that poor people benefited from being encouraged to work without increasing poverty.
We have example of R Huna throwing away leftovers from the market – so that he helps by decreasing market prices. Similarly, we allow competition between Torah teachers to make teaching affordable. Another lesson that comes across that Talmidei Chachamim were empirical – they institute a policy and then change it if society does not react the right way (first fathers were teaching Torah, but not everyone was capable, then they sent teenagers to Yerushalaim, but not everyone could send, etc)
Yoma 22-23 – two incidents, first one kohen knifing another to death, then one breaking a leg. In first case, the father notices that the son is not yet dead and thus the knife is still tahor …. that it got to that people cared about bein adam l’makom and were not sensitive to lives …
the system was changed from competition to lottery after the second, leg, incident. After the first grave incident, committed out of anger, people understood the averah and possibly did teshuva. The second one, an “accident”, would not lead to teshuva, so the Talmidei Hachamim closed the games.
there are other halakhot where inability to connect the dots makes an avera more serious (for example, insulting people). Shows that we need leaders to step in specifically when people cannot connect their behavior with the damage they are doing …
if you file on paper, you’ll be waiting for a long time.
it is also not a mitzva to have a refund. It means that you volunteered to pay in advance to the government – money that you could have spent on tzedoka or your family – and now you are nicely asking to please give it back to me. IRS is surely following a halokho that in a case of sofek, the money stays in place, at least when it is you asking for money. So, plan accordingly for the next year.
huju > If you don’t follow the testing, you don’t know economics.
a good point. USA is a great place to do economic theories: we have states with similar economic structure that sometimes have different policies, or sometimes implement similar policies with a time lag. For example, if California or Vermont can build a great free medical care system, we will learn a lesson and other states might follow – or their population will follow. It is a unique system where state governments are forced to compete with each other, not just businesses. There are other countries with federal systems, but not to the size and mobility as US.
For some reason, some Vermonters prefer to insist on installing their policies at federal level instead of demonstrating the capability in their own state.
>> issued an issur against their talmidim going to Meron
Do parents have any influence on where their children go or is it all in loco parentis?
@ctl, thanks for the correction, July 2020 memo excluded illegals to be counted. Biden on January 20 rescinded order on “unauthorized” immigrants… Is the rest of the timeline ok by you? I think it is clear that census slowed down on purpose waiting for the change of the regime. Technically speaking, if Trump banned illegals but Biden allowed, lashon naki, unauthorized, does it mean that the order on illegals is still active!?
ctlawyer >Trump’s directive to only count citizens was ruled unconstitutional by the Federal Courts, repeatedly. The Census Bureau did not sabotage anything.
Haredi ani entering a discussion with an esteemed CT lawyer, so please correct my understanding of the events:
– commerce dept tried to ask a question about citizenship. court said their reasoning was arbitrary, asked for a better rationale hat never came. this is not yet declaring unconstitutional
– Trump then issued a memorandum to cunt only voters in July 2020.
– states sued and NY District found in their favor.
– President appealed to SC
– SC had hearing on Trump v. New York in Dec 2020 vacated district ruling and dismissed the case as the Census was not ready yet and possible lack of standing by States
– meanwhile Census delayed delivering results multiple times from July to October to January and eventually to Biden.I admit that Constitution seems to count residents, not citizens (“except Indians not taxed” – maybe giving a case for not inclduing those who do not pay taxes, but I digress). 14th Amendment article 2 is contradicting a little – excluding from the count rebelling citizens, seemingly assuming that citizens are close enough to residents.
At the same time, it seems absurd in modern reality to given incentives to the states to bring non-citizens. Imagine, Texas, Arizona, and Florida let in the whole Central America for one year before Census. They then get absolute majority in the House and Presidential elections. They then direct US Army to send those illegals back home. Then, only Senate and Court could save Yankees 🙂
Health > Stop defending Kerry!
I am not defending him, the words fit the pattern of how he talks.. just saying what potential arguments could be.
> Zarif is repeating what the Israel Finance Minister Israel Katz said
Even if info was in public domain, confirming it by an official is a big deal. It may educe a potential jail term, of course.
Syag, RebE, ATTENTION! maybe you misunderstood symbols on CDC website? or are you reading tem somewhere further on the site. I just looked at the front page and clicked “choosing safer activities”
the symbol for (fylly?) vaccinated people – outdoor activities without masks, for small indoor gathering – with masks.
common, thanks for an invitation. I’ve been to more exotic and scary places, so I am fine staying with civilization for now (or staying 6 ft from it, to be precise).
participant> “haham” as a “rav”.
I am referring here to a Sephardic position of a Haham (turban) which seems to be an equivalent to the Rav. See here https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/are-sephardic-rabbinic-leaders-called-rabbi-or-chacham
>> While it has been an unbelievable brocha,
this looks like an USDA program, originally (Truman) targeting poor people and expanded during COVID to cover closed school with emphasis on poor areas but without requiring strict certification and identification of incomes. guidelines say – don’t ask individuals for their income, just try to locate distribution centers in poor areas. So, the intent is to target the poor, but to expand it to make sure children who are out of school, etc are all covered. Seems like a good program that allows for some overuse to make sure everyone is covered, but I don’t think the intent is for people with reasonable income to pick this stuff up in large numbers. We have the same program here locally, and I don’t think any of working people pick that up. Seems like distributors are trying to increase their business and making people feel comfortable when using this charity.
ujm: CTR: Emunas Chachamim isn’t merely a “phrase”
ujm, I think CTR is asking you to define the notion precisely from the sources. If it is a Torah obligtion, you need to define what the procedures are.
not a Dem, but here are potential arguments:
how do we know that Kerry passed the correct facts and that those facts were really unknown to Persians?
Maybe he wanted to leverage possible threat from Israel to pressure them
Also seems like the prime minister was complaining that his intelligence services were keeping him in the dark.Some of the increase in TX, FL and maybe others are due to both legal & illegal immigration. The (Bureau)crats sabotaged and ran the clock on Trump’s directive to count only citizen for the purpose of counting Congress seats. But it looks like immigrants understand that economic policies in TX and FL are better.
Redleg > At least in Shaas, Artscroll has better peirush
The problem is that their translation is BETTER than the original ….
They smooth any controversies and insults … all big questions are made smaller and nicer. Great to learn background to halakha, but not on understanding worldview of the Tannaim and Amoraim
CTRebbe – recall a case within last month of Daf Yomi, must be Shekalim, when someone not satisfied with a person passing halakhic story from a traveler, went to the original source and asked him.
There is also Rav Yehudah disapproving a visiting youngester, told to be a Haham, when he turned out not to wear a kippah/turban because he is still not married. This sounds like an example of unsolicited advice from a Gadol to a person he does not know. But maybe we can start with Gemora examples when someone asks a Rav permission to get married and see what the discussion leads to?
On the opposite side, I saw an interview of R Gifter in the 60s where he says most marital problems are due to marrying too early.
RebE >> chasan and a bar mitzva
I heard it from a lady who is old enough to have been there, so this might be true!
Syag,
your actions are very commendable, but I am confused by the source of this mystery food:>> This food is a bit different because it is coming to people from the school distribution packages. That means it is given to everyone without financial constraints, and it is funded by the government, not tzedaka money (or intent of feeding the poor).
You are telling me that government gives away food to everyone in private schools? Maybe this is OK and a substitute for “school lunches” and, commendably, applied to private schools by your state? Is this COVID emergency or courtesy of Betsy DeVos or state? This is great. I am just not used to seeing free (kosher) food given away that is not targeting poor population.
It may be that the school has to be qualified as serving poor under Federal Title 1? Does it then get funds for everyone at school or only those who qualify for Title 1? I am not sure
>> As Torah Jews we shouldn’t be having “our” political party
Indeed – after he moved to Israel, one Rav was asked which party he support. He replied – party of Moshe Rabbeinu
>> , yihay mechanecha kosdosh … nowhere in the torah does it say we need to reach out to non frum.
This is exactly why Hashem sent Moshe to gather all 36 tzadikim and made them march to EY, rather than bother wiht millions of Amei Haarertz!
There is a fine difference between dealing with Jews who are against and those who are lost. R Salanter moved from Litva to West, saying that you can’t stop the guy going down the slope but you can talk to him at the bottom.
So, while the desire to keep the camp holy is understandable as self-protection, it is definitely a perversion of Torah to say that we don’t care about other Jews. Early advocates of the self-preservation system, like Hazon Ish, surely undertood the trade-offs but it seems that this is leading to kefira after several generations of self-preservationists teaching each other.
I think someone here quoted already a discussion between Satmar Rebbe (who was for earlier marriages) and a dayan who was not. The latter explained that the Rebbe is invited to weddings, but he has to do divorces … maybe there is a similar difference of experiences between the Gadol and the Rebbe?
Analyze – did you say something hat lead Gadol to mention the idea or is it something he recommends everyone? maybe you said – I have too much time on my hands, FB timeline is endless, etc? And then reflect whether your statement was a good indication of your state of mind … That the two disagree is a good reason to thorough analyze where you stand
from personal experience, decades ago, once a Rav visited for a wedding and had a short conversation with me and another of his former students. We had very similar backgrounds, age. I was in a PhD program, my friend was in a not-very-rewarding profession (still is). We compared notes afterwards: he told my friend to move to the yeshiva, and he told me to add a class learning with his Lakewood friend who just moved into town (I am still in that class).
dag1, judging from your posts here, you probably do the same elsewhere.
You are discussing what you are looking for – sales, ignoring what potential readers are looking for – insights. You need to change your attitude selling your sefer, maybe find a mentor who can help.You need to let people know your lomdus, bring example, have people use extracts in their classes. Send lechem in front of you…
participant >> comes/went to a dif background.
TLIK, you are right – some are paying too much attention to the dress codes. Do image search for, for example, Slabodka Yeshiva – they all seem to come from a “different” background. I imagine when you see a Haham in a turban, you would fully freak out.
common >> @AAQ, here is your proof that you can know how to learn and be a goy gumer even a missonary.
Maybe it means that the community has a dress code, but can’t find missionary thinking too unusual? Again, we don’t know details – whether he was Goy Haaretz or Goy Haham.
>> PS he was very vigilant about using a mask and keeping social distance beause R Meir Twersky said so
here you go again attacking daas Torah for no other reasons than that it hurts your opinion.
As R Akiva commented, “I would bite like a horse”Can someone clarify halakha regarding “checking” people out – I thought that it is normal to assume someone is Jewish based on behavior for the purposes of calling to the Torah, etc but there is a procedure requiring witnesses to be recognized as a kohen
RebE > who provided interesting anecdotes using the words learned.
agreed. Yes, using in context rather than memorizing. May depend on a person though.
bk613> AAQ, I have no clue what you are talking about – 95% effective …
sorry for short-hand …
I took it conservatively as 90% (depending on what the protection is for, level of uncertainty of the “95%” estimate, and lower numbers for variants). 90% is exactly 10x lower risk. Phase 3 was run blinded, that is people with or without vaccine are presumed to behave the same. That is 90% – under assumption of the same behavior. If a person after the vaccine has 10x more interaction with
potentially effected people, he has similar exposure to what he had before the vaccine with less interaction.BUT WHEN most people around him also get vaccinated and reduce transmission, as you rightly say, THEN there will be a MUCH lower risk of meeting someone with COVID, thus leading to a VERY LOW risk overall.
So, there are 2 questions: personal vaccine/interaction status and PREVALENCE around you (infected, not necessarily sick or dead). For the 2nd one, you can look up numbers for your country/state/city and see where they are.
Current daily new cases per mln (source ourworldindata)
US 175, (was 750 in January)
Israel – 16 (was 950), UK 36 (was 880)
Germany 260 (was 300 max), France 440 (650), Sweden 540 (740)You see that US left the European group but did not arrive to Israeli/UK level…
Interestingly, US line drops parallel to UK and Israel, but then got stuck at current level from early February while the other two dropped down further. Suggestive of the O’Biden effect…Maybe Zohar is too controversial for the Artscroll … (With all due respect, really, but understanding limitations)