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> it’s not goyish
the founders were very non-Jewish and they had some vague religious beliefs. They were not heimish or even MO, for sure.
People who truly benefit are extremists on both sides: every time an idiot on one side says or does something, an idiot opposing him sends a fundraising email to fight the “other guy”. They feed on each other.
This is what was happening in Weimar republic: some people voted for Commies to fight Nazis, and others – for Nazis to fight commies. One can even argue that, as terrible as Nazi win was, it would have been worse if commies would have won and formed a united Stalinist union from Japan to France.
On the merits, it could be possible to have a Missouri compromise: exchange stopping illegal immigration for a large quote of legal immigration. This will stop the flood and calm everyone down. After that, have a political discourse of how much legal immigration and of what kind (workers v relatives, etc) the country wants.
This just shows – as much as most of us are annoyed by libs running the show – it will not be much better if the opposite side gets in control. The grass is not greener on the other side. We just need to learn how to live with all of that.
Haleivi, right, I forgot who said, pointing to bookshelf- all these authors starting learning from their mothers. .. and nowadays if not from mothers, then morahs. This underscores that they need to be learnt ourdays
Regardless of the differences, R Twersky Z’L highly recommended a goyishe 12-step program. Look in his books, he knew first hand about addictions both in Jewish and non-Jewish world.
disclaimer – it’s not goyish
I wonder what is the peshat for the son to listen to the torat imecha on addition to mussar avicha. First, it means ima has that torah…it is also oral torah as it is shma, not koreh…
probably got it from her mother or learned on her own as the father would be asur to teach, many darshin like that.
Also, if the son needs to listen to that, Kal vahomer the daughter? So we can have oral tradition by the women..
Maybe they didn’t write it down yet?Seems like there is a concensus here on ladies who want to learn v general curriculum. As to how many are there, it is undeniable that today’s women, as well as men, are more educated and have access to more information, than before, so it is not surprising that there are more of those. If you look at historical examples, they were typically daughters and wives of talmidei chachamim, not daughters of rich people,
For those stopping CS from checking out a gemora, I hesitate to revisit the women/Torah debate, but I see several sources that we might have not discussed before. The new chiluk here is the difference between wholesale teaching to everyone v. those who are eager to learn on their own. Maybe someone could look these sources to see if the mention written/oral Torah difference. But if in our generation, teaching written Torah is accepted for everyone, then, there should be some other level accessible to those women who are eager and capable.
.Rav Shach zt”l writes similarly that the restriction against Torah study for women does not apply to self-study, and the concept is already noted by the Maharil (Shut Maharil Ha-Chadashos 45): “[This refers] specifically to somebody who teaches his daughter. But if she teaches herself she receives reward for it – as somebody not commanded in the mitzvah – for her intention is for the good.”
Chida (Tov Ayin 4), explaining that it is permitted to teach a woman who has proven herself as having true intent of Torah study.
Rabbi Shmuel (ben Elchanan Yaakov) Archivolti of Padua (1515–1611) writes that women with suitable intellectual abilities are not only permitted to study Torah, but are even obligated to do so:
“When a woman is ready to receive an abundance of wisdom, neglect will harm her, and […] we can differ, saying that the sages of blessed memory spoke only of a father teaching his daughter in her childhood. … There one might fear because most women’s minds are consumed with nonsense. But women whose hearts urge them to Hashem’s service of their own will shall ascend G-d’s mountain and live in His holy place, for they are outstanding women, and the sages of the generation must glorify, exalt and sustain them, encourage and strengthen them … and Torah shall go forth from their mouths” (Maa’yan Gannim, letter 10; quoted in Torah Temimah on Devarim 11).
kuvult > It is perfectly rational to believe many concepts in the Gemara were based on their knowledge at the time.
how can you claim otherwise? Gemora documents myriads of cases where amoraim argue about meaning of mishayos and baraisos, and sometimes explain that someone knew that baraisa but not another. For example, R Yehudah repeatedly points to Nehardians (where Shmuel taught) what he knows from Shmuel that they do not. All these traveller from Israel to Bavel who either bring information or worse. As the Maharal points out, see my multiple references, the strength of Bavli is developing the method of reconstructing missing information (similar to modern linguistic analysis, pattern analysis, machine learning – AAQ, not Maharal). So, you are free to try to use their methods and you’ll be a talmid chacham if you succeed or a rooster, or worse, if you don’t (Gemora’s words not AAQs,)
> I didn’t author the Shulchan Aruch OR the Rambam.
amazing humility. techincally, rambam is a person, so you should say that you did not father rambam, i.e. you aint Maimon.
ARSo, this might have worked when we had a Sanhedrin and T’Ch having direct discussions with each other. Look at later history – from Rambam to Chasidim, etc. A lot of T’Ch who said something new or unusual were controversial (Does not mean, of course, that any proposed change was reasonable).
So, if R Moshe, R Soloveichik, Lubavitcher Rebbe were mutually respectful is enough to consider all of them worthy respect. It does not mean that you have to agree with everything they, or others who claim to talk in their name, say, of course.
Avira, I absolutely agree that people can, and should try to, do chesed in any job. This is under-rated. many Jews used to be in a situation where holding any job/business was necessary for survival. In our days, B’H, people have some choice and it makes sense to choose the one where you do more chesed (in addition to other considerations on how it affects your own life). So, indeed, possibly a good plumber is better than a bad doctor…
But in any case, one should probably maximize amount of chesed he does – she ein lachem shiur. It will look weird if someone helps an old lady cross the street and check off “did chesed today”. So, someone visiting a sick person is great, someone who visits ten – is better; someone who can actually operate on a sick person and heal him – even better; someone who invents a drug that helps thousands – even better. Not in a sense that one person is better than the other, but in a sense that if the same person can do more, he should do more.
Arso > quite a number of gedolei Yisroel who did not hold of his greatness.
in our divided times, I don’t think we need a consensus to consider someone a talmid chacham; too much machlokes going around. I would say, if 2-3 t.ch recognize another one, especially if he is not part of their particular group, that should be enough,
common, I agree. It is just latest american politicians do not show any capabilities in meaningful politics.
Chazal mostly used stones no bidet. But there are tons of gemoras talking about healthy foods and food effects on different conditions.
> doctors will not he higher in shomayim than plumbers
There are several questions here, what are your answers
1. Is there a mitzva of doing chesed, saving lives, caring for sick.
2. What is schar for that when you are well paid. I asked this shaila and was told that as long as the person is motivated to do chesed rather than higher pay, he is a tzaddik. The rav is anti college, all of his children are tchim or businessmen, but one brother is a doctor.
3. Should the person strive to do more mitzvos if he is capable.BY1212, a fair question. I indeed do not advocate blindly following authorities and I don’t think r Soloveichik did also. I brought his opinion to show that at least in some cases, he would rely on Israeli government opinion. I saw in a sefer of his letters and articles, not a maase. I think I can support your skepticism with another story.
One of the founders of student movement for soviet Jewry asked several gedolim for an advice. R Feinstein, LR, R Teitz all advised against public actions, mostly being afraid that commies will make things worse for Soviet Jews and possibly for protesters themselves. R Soloveichik also advised against, after first consulting someone in Israeli government. After the students started protests anyway, one of them asked R Soloveichik again why Rav is not repeating his position. Rav responded that he changed his opinion after he realized that his advisor mislead him. Rav asked him “what is best for Soviet Jews” and the advisor gave his advise based on “what is best for Israel” (i..e. desire to negotiate with Russians, etc, similar to current Russian war on Ukraine). Rav held that in a situation of pikuach nefesh, one should focus solely on what is best for the people in danger.
I am not sure about timing, but it sounds that second story happened after the first, so maybe we can conclude R Soloveichik reduced his reliance on government – at least when there is a reason to suspect wrong motivation.
But, I think, we can still learn from this that (according to R Soloveichik’s opinion that not everyone holds by), it is permissible to rely on Israeli experts under some circumstances.
> idleness leads to a bigger lack of tznius! Not to mention insanity.
This is about her not sitting without doing any work even if she can afford it. If she is going out to her job as a CEO or an MD, idliness is not an issue.
In fact, one could argue from this position – women should go out. Husband is at work, kids at cheder, washing machine does it’s job. What is the woman supposed to do? Browse internet? Shop online? Rearrange furniture? She is educated enough to understand which job is needed and which one is not. So, for santiy sake, she should go teach at school or work at a hospital.
> Our Ruv has also made changes to the Megillah taking out anything improper.
Stop right here, even in Adar. I heard from the peh of the old Lakewood mashgiach that “Esther becomes Mordechai’s Rebbe” after she was ready to do mesiras nefesh by going to Achashverosh. Yes, it was Adar, but the Rav was not drunk and walking on his own accord. So, it is OK to call women Rebbes.
Sechel, to paraphrase R Salanter, if you only have an hour and you have a choice between CR and chassidus – start with CR because you can learn from CR when and how to learn chassidus; but learning chassidus will not tell you to read CR.
This is very much related to the societal norms. R Salanter was very interested in how German Rabonim were able to work with their community, and he was amused at seeing ladies showing up for the lecture of one of them, saying that if he (R Salanter) tried such an event in Lita, he would be put in cherem.
So, there is no simple “halakha” here.We now live in same countries, but often in different societies. So, each community should follow their reasonable rules without getting crazy in either direction.
I once observed a funny situation: an academic husband gave a lecture to Jewish audience describing some interesting findings that came from his travels around the world. After the lecture, some people complimented his wife for letting him do such exciting work while holding the fort at home. Little did they know that his wife was an even busier professional, and this traveler was actually “holding the fort” all the days he was not on travel.
Froggie > Tosfes’ Kasha or a Shach
There might be disagreements here. For a random example, Maharal was against training children in Tosfos, but rather on first teaching more straightforward approaches. So, a good SAT-type test should encompass multiple ways of learning.
common, Adar or not, there are a lot of issues that might be turned to a healthier path with some creative solutions. For example, exchange illegal immigration for a legal one. That is, close the borders and allow increased immigration quotes. After that, you can have further political discussions about how much legal immigration is the right one and what categories should get priorities, but at least there will be no people stuck in the desert and bused to Chicago. This negotiating (peshora) attitude is something T brought to US politics and will hopefully be expanded upon.
Two beds are in BM 113, baraita says that beis din would leave two beds even for a poor person when taking a loan collateral.
Shmuel explains that he does not know how to heal only 3 sicknesses, including not walking after eating bread.
Interesting, that we not only presume that the poor person will eat bread but also that we need to make sure he exercises.
We can’t take the 2nd bed and just leave him directions to the gym.Also, it seems that Shmuel stresses these 3 incurable sicknesses are very much along the line of the OP – unhealthy things
people do to themselves. The other two are – bad diet (bitter dates when hungry) and wearing wet clothes.common > little early in the morning to get inebriated
how do you know I am aint posting from Beijing or Siberia?
Little Froggie croakth: he was once מכוין to a Tosfes’ Kasha
this is true. Unfortunately, I am not aware of well-developed widely appliable tests measuring learning knowledge and abilities. Maybe you know? “knows whole shas” and “gaon” are just too wide and subjective, especially in our Lake Wabegon times, when everyone is a Talmid Chacham above average.
You can go around, like I do, and ask people obscure questions and see who can answer it, but this is not scalable.
I am not the only one who is interested in being able to sort out this. R Soloveichik in early YU days laments that he is giving the same semicha to all students instead of giving them a grade. I presume he would answer when a congregation calls him and asks about a specific candidate, but he felt that transparent information would be more useful.
yankel > If the message is correct , who cares how it got to you ?
yes, this is correct in many cases where it is possible to evaluate evidence directly.
as someone told me about Rambam, “he would accept the truth regardless of the source”.
May also depend on a person’s own knowledge and abilities.Here we are discussing matters that are truly beyond my abilities, and probably beyond abilities of other posters. I can’t rely on Chachamim as their quotes here seem to be contradictory and most likely taken out of context. Thus, I can only (somewhat) trust based on poster’s reputation. So, that was my first basic question – do any of the posters have any external proof of their thinking abilities. If they did not invent a new light bulb or something, how can they be sure they can figure out such weighty topics? I would suggest – to those who did not yet – do something intellectually competitive that will indicate to them how good they are at thinking and even where their strong and weak spots are. Try SAT, chess, NYT crossword … IT is not bitul zman as knowing yourself will help you a lot in learning and working on middos.
Maybe we need some smart people to run as independent (asking for too much?). Establish 5-10% following in key states, sufficient to throw election either way and then negotiate with either side (most likely T as he would negotiate) to merge the ticket for some reasonable policy concessions.
This is sort of a parliamentary tactic that is against US system, as it was never possible to hold an executive to his promises. T is unique as he actually has karka to put a lien on. Maybe a commercial contract that if T does not sign Ukraine funding bill, he forfeits a hotel. Put a hotel in escrow and select a beis din to adjudicate before the election.
yechiell, you may have your position and feel free to defend it but it is embarrassing to see you pretend that T did not do anything good for Israel – embassy, Golan heights recognition, Abrahamic accords …
Note that there were ongoing negotiations with Saudi Arabia. When B started, he immediately insulted Saudis, relationships froze, then _recently_ renewed again and there were rumors of – again – increased contacts between Israel and KSA and, again rumors, that Hamas motivation was to stop those contacts. Possibly, if the process would not have reversed under B, KSA would have been in the accords already.
lots of people here know a lot about secrets of the world. As this is way above my capabilities, I’d like to see who is the greatest here so that I take his/her views more seriously. Could you guys maybe list your accomplishments in gashmiyus so I can see who has highest intellectual abilities? maybe patents or articles. If this is too ofeensive for your modesty, maybe I could go with the highest SAT score? please help me find my bearing in this important debate.
I think there was a takana or just a suggestion to have at least two “beds” in the house. Reason: a person would sleep on one and then get up and move to the other. Without the second bed, he might stay in the same bed and not moving (before eating?) is bad for the health. So, amoraim cared about health.
>> he has at least $2 million dollars in
> really think girls are so vain?He thinks girls are uneducated and are not indexing for inflation.
There is a hiluk that many in shidduch business do not seem to pay attention to – earning parnasa v. doing something in your life. There are lots of occupations where the only outcome seems to be financial v. others where one heals people, builds things, invents, teaches.
It is a big difference whether a husband (or wife also) spends 6-10 hours a day focused just on “parnasah” and his real “life” is in the remaining several hours between parnasah and shloffen that he needs to subdivide between learning, wife, children, YWN OR he spends whole day being productive and performing mitzvos. Of course, attitude may change occupation between these 2 categories. Probably R Miller, not sure, suggests for a woman to think that she is not just washing dishes, but works on sholom bayis. Same thing, a doctor may be thinking about how much he charges for the surgery or how he is saving a human life. Same for a melamed …
R Soloveichik writes that the same way we often defer to doctors when halakha needs medical opinion, we should defer to Israeli political and military leaders when halakha requires a military opinion.
CS > probably would have cost him [Rambam] his head.
Did Muslims of his time get that agitated about the founder of another religion who they in theory respected? Rambam did risk his head when he was confronted by a witness who said Rambam previously behaved as a Muslim, probably in the times he was learning science in or near Fez medrasa/aka first university.
Arso: a melamed in a cheder of FRUM kids from FRUM families, as well as anyone else involved in chinuch, is doing just as an important job as Lubavichers or others who work in kiruv
Without diminishing the role, these kids have parents who have a mitzva of teaching their kids and they are capable of hiring a melamed. Those other lost kids are like orphans as there is nobody to hire a melamed for them. Maybe, if you are melamed who is teaching kids for free, or at least not differentiating between those who pay you and those who do not, then you might be comparable.
On the other hand, you are right, the “frum” people also need to be baalei teshuva.
RebE, I forgot which amora had a field in the middle of the river, someone asked to teach him Torah in exchange for working the field. To make it easier, this student told people upriver that halakha is that downriver had the priority for water, and to people downriver other way around. You know, it was a machloket … when amora found out about it, he didn’t harvest produce from that field. So, yes, stolen goods ate not kosher.
These are the ways of the world. People perceive conservative positions as safe, and innovations as risky and criticized. Moshe was met with doubts, Rambams books were burned.
I am not saying that ANY innovation is good, but when metziyus changes, it requires a response. Mendelssohn is criticized, but maybe many jews were lost to assimilation not only by his translation, but by the inability of the rest of the community to come up with an appealing alternative. It took us generations to come up with yeshiva system, yu, chabad houses etc to somewhat deal with modernity.
What is marriageability status of someone has yichus to prominent misnagdim who had a zechus of throwing heilike stones at Baal Shem Tov? Asking for a friend.
Menachem, finally we found something to agree on! And bitcoin should to be traceable to David HaMelech.
> zionist activities made the Arab population militantly
We have to be realistic at the state of the nations in that neighborhood. In a big number of ME countries, many groups suffer either all the time or during crises. Most non-Muslims either emigrated or were killed off, not just Jews. Muslims shoot at each other all the time – from Turkey to Yemen. So, Zionists are not so much at fault.
There are some exceptions: mild dictatorships – Egypt, KSA, Jordan, emirates, and even muddling democracies – Lebanon, Iraq. West Bank PA fit somewhere in this list.
Israelis finally admitted that “from the river to the sea” are coming to the tunnels near you. I mean them. If Mhmt is not going to the sea, the sea is coming down on Mhmt.
> bar Kochba minted coins
I think Moschiach will mint bitcoins.
Gedol Hador, see CSs post.
> questions come from klipa
Who said “Aiekah”?
> questions are a lack of understanding.
Are you sure?
DaMoshe > Instead of answering, the Rebbe sang a song, and their questions disappeared.
Now I understand why so many times, when I would ask a question of a Chabad Rav, he would break out in a nigun. But either, they were not holding by Alter Rebbe’s level or I am not at the level of Talmidei Shklov, my questions did not disappear.
I am not so sure that Taanis fully approves of this attitude. It criticizes Eliezer for not qualifying that the girl is not lame or blind, but it does not criticize him for requesting her to have right middos.