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homer,
You miss my point.
What makes you think I missed it?
I used to take politics seriously when I actually thought it was supposed to make sense, or that I could make a difference.
So essentially you had an incorrect idea of what politics and the electoral process was supposed to be like. And when you realized that it wasn’t the way you expected or wanted it to be, instead of figuring it out and adjusting your expectations, you became cynical? 🙂 🙂 🙂
See my bit on the American electorate proving what doofuses they are time and again, So picking this guy or that candidate
The framers of the Constitution already had that figured out 227 years ago, which is why the “doofuses” don’t directly pick this guy or that candidate for president.
that you think will be the GUY, and that THIS TIME will be different, is a mistake I have made to many times in the past.
I’m sorry you have been disappointed so many times. I haven’t thought of any candidates like that since high school. They’re human beings, and they’re running for president, so how sane can they really be?
They are all the same!!
If you really believed that, you wouldn’t almost exclusively bash Democrats.
ubiquitin,
A recurring theme was would you follow orders even if you disagreed. For example they asked a lawyer in my group,” if you disagreed with a judge’s interpretation of the law would you put aside your own interpretation?” The lawyer said yes
In matters of Jewish law this can be a virtue, e.g., the exchange between Rabban Gamliel (the Nasi) and R’ Yehoshua over the proper date of Yom Kippur in the Mishna (2nd chapter of Rosh Hashana I think). For civil law, I don’t see how it’s a virtue.
One juror spoke up and said he is a school teacher and when children ask “why?” he says becasue those are the rules. The judge nodded approvingly and asked if anybody disagreed. I wanted to yell Of course I do, we arent children! We are freethinking individuals!
Why didn’t you say (or yell) that? Other people in your panel may have felt the same way you did, but perhaps nobody wanted to rock the boat. That’s part of how groupthink works.
Is groupthink like this a virtue?
No.
Do the lawyers no this isnt the wa normal grown ups work, and they are just looking for sheep whose minds they can meld? Or am I missing something?
A grownup may not work that way individually, but I think they do know that that’s how groups of people work, and so they utilize groupthink to help orchestrate the outcomes they desire. Why pose questions to a panel of potential jurors and challenge them to disagree with each other instead of interviewing each jury candidate separately?
zahavasdad,
The Hotels could easily build a succah, many already have outdoor gazeebos and could turn them into succahs.
Yes they could, but why would people put so much money into spending Sukkos in a crowded hotel sukkah? Spending Pesach in a hotel makes more sense. I agree with DaasYochid’s assessment as to the reasons. The challenge of cleaning for Pesach is one factor among many others.
Just for the record, I am not going to a hotel for Pesach and have never gone to a hotel for Pesach
Same here.
zahavasdad,
While some people do go away for Succahs, its not as a massive scale as Pesach. its because Peseach has become too hard to make at home for many
I actually think more people would spend Succos at hotels too if it weren’t for one teeny little detail: you have to eat in a sukkah on Sukkos.
lesschumras,
Nechumah, “most” people make things like potato starch by hand? Maybe in your circle of friends but I know of nobody who does. Who has the time?
Nechomah wrote, “I have a friend who makes her own potato starch.”
How did “a friend” turn into “most” people?
Shopping613,
I feel like EVERYONE just blows it up!!! Like seriously, each kid cleans his own room, and you guys pick up, sweep, mop, and wipe down the furniture in the living room and then do the kitchen…
What is the rest of the world doing that takes 4 weeks? I have NO IDEA!
They are cleaning rooms, picking up, sweeping, mopping, wiping down the furniture in the living room and then doing the kitchen… 🙂 It’s wonderful that your family can do all of that in one week, but for my family, to try and complete those tasks in the span of one week would be extremely stressful. Better 3-4 weeks of methodical work than one week of panic.
And pesach food? Really. I mean I guess it’s hard cuz its like 2 yuntivs but you seriously don’t need 20 dishes. Meat, fish, lots of salads, dairy.
We keep things simple as you describe, but it is still a lot to cook!
homer,
I dont mean to insult anybody. Politics is not something to insult someone over!!!
Ok, I agree, and thank you for clarifying. I guess it’s hard to decipher intent through anonymous writing.
Especially when people take politics so seriously. I to used to take politics very seriously.
I take it seriously, but I favor centrists/pragmatists, and unfortunately there are very few of those left it seems.
Living in MD you also are stuck in the mud when it comes to politics.
What about Larry Hogan?
But keep your chin up and DAVEN.
Always good advice. Thanks.
It’s possible that the hunger is not related to the coffee per se, but the fact that it’s morning, you haven’t eaten anything overnight, and your body is now wide awake and needing fuel for the day. As far as putting on weight, a big breakfast is much less of an issue than a big dinner, since the breakfast food will go towards energy during the day, but dinner digests while you are sleeping. In fact, a big breakfast with complex carbs (which break down slowly and release their energy slowly over a long period of time) and protein may help curb the potential to overeat later in the day.
homer,
Ctlawyer thats a laugh. Earn it? when has a politician ever done anything to earn anything, let alone your vote?
If more people thought like CTLAWYER than like you, regardless of party affiliation, we’d probably have a much better selection of candidates. I do not see how knee jerk cynicism does anything helpful. Nor do random smiley faces and cheap insults.
Just look at who our esteemed senator from MN is. Just to give you a current example of the intelligence of the American electorate.
Do you have something against Amy Klobuchar?
flatbusher,
A lot of people shuckle during the davening, but considering one is standing before Hashem, isn’t it disrespectful to stand other than straight as one would before a human leader?
While one can draw lessons about proper service to Hashem through the way in which human leaders are respected, the analogy can only really go so far, since Hashem is not a human. Even among humans, there are many different ways to show respect. In the U.S., one stands when the president stands, and a proper greeting is to shake his hand. Soldiers will salute him, and not drop their hands until he salutes back. In Japan, it’s respectful to bow at the waist. In some cultures, kissing is considered respectful, but it would be awkward for me to bow in front of or kiss the U.S. president.
So, many Jews throughout the world shuckle when they daven to Hashem. It’s culturally accepted. Why would this inherently be disrespectful to Hashem?
Any thoughts about the origin of shuckling and what is it exactly supposed to accomplish?
I’ve heard similar things to mik5’s first response to you. For me, shuckling sometimes helps with concentration, and it provides a sort of rhythm to the words.
mik5,
instruct congregants not to bang by Haman, or even to tap their feet on the ground AT ALL … That is the right way to hear the megillah raboisai.
Not if you or your shul has a different minhag. I was very impressed with the children in my shul on Purim who banged when Haman’s name was read (and only then), and then stopped banging very quickly so that the leining could go on. Fun and good behavior can coexist.
ubiquitin,
on more than two occasions I have seen Gedolim not resort to fire hazards
How is it a fire hazard if the doors are locked on the outside (to prevent latecomers from disrupting the leining) but are still easily accessible for exit? Do you lock your front door at home before going to bed?
DaasYochid and zahavasdad,
Do you have a source
I might get pilloried for suggesting an Artscroll book (kidding), but the issue of having non-Jews visit during Yom Tov is addressed in The Laws of Yom Tov by Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen. He is quite good with citing sources in the footnotes. Asking a shaila for the specific circumstances of one’s own case is very important as well.
Syag Lchochma,
[Quoting nishtdayngesheft]
You’ve never pleased to a lesser charge in traffic court?
no nisht, I have never pleaded guilty to something i didn’t do, nor not guilty to something i did, and i am confused (sincerely, not being argumentative) how that could be okay l’halacha.
I don’t think nishtdayngesheft’s question implied pleading innocent when actually guilty, or pleading guilty when actually innocent. He seems to be referring to a case where a violation did occur, but it could be charged at varying degrees of severity. In that case, he is talking about requesting (or accepting when offered) a more favorable/merciful charge.
but when my kid ran a stop sign, i instructed them to plead guilty, as they were indeed guilty and stating otherwise would have been sheker.
From what he has written, I don’t think nishtdayngesheft would act any differently than this. What he seems to be asking is, if your kid had been charged with [attn CR lawyers, I’m making this up] 1st degree stop sign runnyness, which carries a fine of $1000, would you request that the court consider reducing the charge to 3rd degree stop sign runnyness ($250 fine), or if the court offered a plea bargain that if your kid admits guilt right away to the 3rd degree stop sign runnyness, they’d go with that and not pursue the 1st degree charge in order to save the court’s time? I don’t see how doing that would be sheker.
im still not sure about how you would know the tickets are trumped up or whether or not they are giving multiple tickets
The tickets/charges to give are largely at the discretion of the officer witnessing the violation. I once made a left turn at an intersection where left turns were not permitted during rush hour (I didn’t notice the sign on the power line), and the police officer gave me a written warning. In other circumstances, I could have gotten a ticket. Would you consider it sheker to politely request that the officer give a warning instead of a ticket?
Hashemisreading,
Your not davening for the amud, your davening before the amud.
You’re nitpicking, but you’re not literally removing lice from your head 🙂
I think “for the amud” is an expression, not meant to be taken literally.
The Queen,
Sorry you are have it wrong.
I hope I do, and I apologize for overreacting. What I was responding to was:
1. Using Little Froggie’s (who works and opened this thread to praise his wife) thread to criticize the kollel lifestyle as objectively wrong.
2. A perceived implication in your responses that men do not pitch in with housework and childcare, particularly kollel men.
3. A perceived implication that women are duped into servitude via the shidduch process, and that their husbands don’t care about their suffering later on.
Am I off base?
Just for the record, I am going on vacation iy”H and my husband is staying home with the family.
That’s great! For the record as well, I work and my wife stays home full time, I am very involved in parenting and housework, and I enthusiastically agree with Little Froggie’s sentiments in this thread. And neither my wife nor I want to take a 2-week vacation solo, and it has nothing to do with lack of trust.
The Queen,
Unless, the wife has a valid reason why she can’t go, my first assumption would be that she doesn’t trust her husband to take over.
It seems perhaps we have a misandrist viewpoint to balance out the mysogynist ones here.
The Queen,
I know a woman of a large family who juggles two jobs, and has no option to discontinue, because at her shidduch she agreed to support her husband.
This does not contradict what I said in the slightest. If she’s happy to make that sacrifice, then who are we to judge, even if we’d hate to be in her shoes. If she’s unhappy, then they have problems, not because of kollel, but because of her sense of “no option to discontinue.”
The Queen,
And your two weeks of juggling is what their regular life looks like.
I think there is truth to this. Taking on your spouse’s role for a while is a good way to appreciate what they do; however, a lot of the “juggling” is likely due to lack of experience and routine.
This is the reason I don’t think it is fair for men to place the responsibility of parnossah on their wives. Raising a family is a full time job and bringing parnossah is another full time job. Hashem created a family with a father and a mother for a reason.
And I don’t think it’s fair to make blanket judgements of how other families conduct their affairs. Parents are big boys and girls, and they can make their own decisions and work things out together so everyone is able to thrive. If they cannot, then they have problems that are independent of the lifestyle they are choosing to lead.
To all the men who want to weigh in, first send your wife on a two week vacation. Then we’ll talk.
What if she doesn’t want to go?
Joseph,
Why aren’t you judging the guy who requested mechila l’kaf zechus that he requested it properly. Especially since no one claimed otherwise.
It’s possible I’m not; I’ll have to think about it.
The minyan was, as Sam indicated, per S”A. I don’t think Sam would have invited the minyan into his home if he didn’t want to grant mechila, as he indicated.
So why not the yard, or the hall? Bringing it to the workplace is reminiscent of the tactics of shady collection agencies.
Joseph,
Sam didn’t say that his earlier three requests for mechila was improper.
That is true, and only Sam2 can clarify. Still, I wrote what I did because:
1. I am judging Sam2 l’kaf zechus that had the requests been truly proper, and that includes being patient and not pestering or humiliating the wronged party if he asks for more time to work through his feelings, he would have granted mechila.
2. If the man gathered a minyan together, he should have used that opportunity to confess his wrongdoing to Sam2 publicly and beg for forgiveness. Instead, he used the minyan to humiliate Sam2 by showing up at his work site rather than home and making the focus his refusal.
If we see that the last thing off the assembly line is pork, should we assume that everything that came off before it is kosher?
Nor did Sam say he expected something additional from the fellow that he failed to perform.
He expected more time.
Joseph,
Sam, if he followed Shulchan Aruch k’peshuto after you declined mechila, how can you have an additional taaina on him for doing the only thing pashut halacha states he should?
Who says he requested mechila properly? As Syag pointed out above, if the wrong is not even righted as best as possible, the request for mechila is worthless.
Florida’s Natural
Baseball and football, since they are the easiest to follow by radio.
>:)
Shopping613,
And coffee addict from what I have heard from married women, we unfortunately do not get to sleep late, like until all our kids are out of the house.
Yes, and I’m not sure why this retort keeps coming up; it’s really not a good one.
Kids can usually take care of their basic needs and learn to be quiet and let their parents rest for a couple of hours by age 7 or 8 (it’s good chinuch for kibud av v’eim), so hopefully it’s not the teenager waking the mother up to beg for breakfast at 6am 🙂
Meno,
He basically said he’s surprised that there are people in Miami Beach who would get up for an early minyan.
If I were to say, “I’m surprised there are people in MD who actually get up early to daven with a minyan”, you wouldn’t find that cynical?
Ah, ok, I understand how you interpreted golfer’s comment.
I didn’t see what golfer wrote as a knock on the Miami Beach frum community at all, but rather a comment on the conduct of frum Jews even when they are on vacation. To expand on golfer’s statement as I understood it:
This is a great thread.
It made my day.
Who’da thunk it?
[Even when on vacation in] Miami Beach, home of the hibiscus, the palm tree and the long sandy beach, [where people spend lots of money to go just to relax,] there are people who won’t leave to catch a morning flight [even after a late night hassle to pack up] without first finding [an early morning] minyan!
Joseph,
Avram: Sure. Incest is one example. Also, a purported non-Jew may have sinned with an eishes ish who did have an earlier halachic marriage that never terminated and generations later none of the decedents were aware of their Jewish lineage.
Good points, thank you. Those cases would be extremely rare I would think, even given newbee’s calculus.
M,
If my post pushes even one person to think a bit more deeply about their own emunah, bitachon, and the decisions they make, and pushes them to take even one step towards ensuring a responsible path for themselves or their friends, I will be consider the post as having served an important to’eles.
When you mock what people hold dear, your message, if any, will be unlikely to go through. Your “examples” shed no light, but mocked through caricature and insult; suggesting that those engaged in full time learning were poor parents and stupid.
then they are stuck in a terribly stressful position, and “the system” has failed them
Your post is long in complaints, but short in solutions. If you truly want to convince people to move in a different direction, provide some suggestions or ideas.
Meno,
Not sure if it was your intention, but your comment sounds pretty cynical to me.
Didn’t sound cynical to me at all.
Sam2,
So every Ger is a Safek Mamzer and Assur to marry?
Can there be a mamzer situation in the absence of any halachic marriage whatsoever?
Sam2,
I don’t think removing a ventilator would be murder.
In the case of Terri Schiavo, which Health was referring to, a ventilator wasn’t removed; rather, they removed a feeding tube.
Shopping613,
our teachers are always telling us that we have to be refined in the street, look refined, no screaming, running, and so on….how talking on the phone makes people look in your direction so it shouldn’t be done.
I have to wonder if boys ever get speeches like this?
With the exception of the phones (which were not allowed on school time), I got those speeches every time there was a school activity, and I was in a public school. To me, it has more to do with being non-disruptive and mature rather than modest. Perhaps your teachers are making it an issue of modesty because they think that’s what’s important to their students.
so I started wondering if our teachers really mean that ALL girls should not be taling loudly, how are boys, men, children allowed to do so too?
I don’t really see adult men or women screaming, running, etc. in public. Did your teacher specifically say that boys and men are allowed to?
It’s seems so outlandish to say girls can’t run in the street and boys can
Who has said that it is ok for boys (or man) to be disruptive? Even if you see boys doing so, didn’t you say that the majority of girls in your class don’t take their teachers’ advice either?
I just don’t see why it’s considered to “moshech eneyim” of guys when we run, or talk loudly, but if boys do it, kids are doing it….then why would we stick out anyway
Once, very late on Shabbos night, there was a loud commotion outside my house that woke me up. I felt very upset because I was concerned that it would wake the baby, and my first assumption was that our (non-Jewish) neighbors were having a wild party, as they had done once or twice in the past. The voices didn’t sound like them, however, so I peeked outside and saw a group of Yeshiva boys cavorting down the middle of the street. I don’t think that behavior was ok. Nor do I appreciate when I am forced to overhear someone, man or woman, having a fight with someone else on their cell phone in the store or subway or wherever. Nor do I feel comfortable when packs of adult-sized “children”, boys or girls, engage in horseplay in shopping center parking lots. I don’t think you should interpret your teacher’s advice as an over-emphasis on modesty, but rather advice on how to conduct oneself as a mature adult. And that applies equally to men and women.
Little Froggie,
Statements like “we cant let Halacha decide who to love..” or “all HaShem cares for is Ahavs Yisroel, the rest is nonsense” (ok nobody wrote that) is a slippery slope.
Nobody wrote either statement you put into quotations, so why are you addressing them at all?
I don’t think your point is wrong per se, but it is misplaced. Kind of like if somebody opened up a thread about suggestions for how to improve their marriage, and someone came in and posted that divorce is permissible according to halacha.
If one connects to Torah not entirely due to pure love of Hashem, but instead uses it like a spade for something else, like misogyny, there is a risk that the person will come to disrespect mitzvos.
This thread is a good example of that.
Is waking up at 8:00am to fulfill the will of the Creator really so hard that it’s worth complaining about, even in jest?
Shopping613,
A friend of mine recently took upon herself not to talk in the street on her phone as it causes “attention”.
So? Why does that affect you? Do you feel like you have to do it now? What if your friend decided that purple was the most modest color, and took it upon herself to only wear purple outside?
What do you mean, men can do it?!
Who says? Maybe somewhere out there there is a man who took it upon himself to not talk on the phone in the street.
Why is it not okay for us to do things men do in the street, such as hug an old friend, get overly excited, talk on the phone, run, or pretty much do anything that isn’t walking with my mouth shut?
How did you conclude all of this from your friend deciding for herself that she didn’t want to talk on the phone in the street?
Yeee haw! Good Shabbos, you’uns!
DaasYochid,
🙂
MDG,
The above are about the appearance of honesty
Not exclusively. Yes I want to avoid potential maris ayin, but it’s also about self-training and increasing my sensitivity, which should be what chumros are about.
zahavasdad,
People are not concerned about such minor matters. They are refering to such practices are “Paying off the books” or not charging sales tax for example
1. Who are the “people” that you refer to?
2. I consider your examples to be basic halacha. The OP was asking about chumros.
Avi K,
There are a number of threads which lead me to believe that people say “Mirror, mirror on the wall.
So you get your information about Jews from the CR? Not a good idea…
Of course, the men do not look at it but address it as Mrs. Mirror with their eyes on the ground
Making fun of people is not nice, especially in a thread purportedly advocating for chumros in bein adam l’chaveiro.
What about chumrot regarding honesty in monetary matters?
1. I do not permit my children to bring their toys into a store if the store may carry similar merchandise.
2. If I don’t get a carry-out bag from the store, I hold the receipt in my hand when I walk out.
3. I try to be as careful as possible regarding complementary items; e.g., taking only the amount of ketchup packets I need for the food I just bought, offering to pay a quarter if I ask for an empty disposable cup, etc.
How about you?
Joseph,
Cookies and milk.
Darkei Emori. And how do you know the milk left out for you when you come down the chimney is cholov Yisroel?
147,
People who can’t shut up* must be shunted out & expelled from every single Shul in the world:- No exceptions!!
* in shul during davening or leining**
** assuming they are not the shaliach tzibbur or baal korei
Is that what you meant?
Health,
If you hold wearing a tie is Chukas Akum – so don’t wear one!
But do we then get to look down on everyone else in shul who wears one?
zahavasdad,
I meant there are things that are totally kosher and things that arent kosher and arent treif.
I know that’s what you meant, and that is what made me go “huh”? How can something be not kosher, but not treif (i.e., forbidden)?
Going with your kids to the park is Kosher and seeing a sporting event is Pareve. Im not sure if you get the difference.
No, I don’t get the difference. Why is going to a park “kosher”, but going to a sporting event “not kosher”?
Its not always possible to do a totally kosher event like going to the park
Why not?
WolfishMusings,
The more I think about it, the more I realize that there isn’t a single positive commandment that I can say that I *know* for sure, 100%, that I’ve fulfilled it in the proper way at any point in my life.
And that’s just sad.
No, that’s called being human. If Hashem desired 100% accuracy 100% of the time, He would have populated the Earth with robots, or angels.
WolfishMusings,
I’m doomed either way.
Do you really think that Hakadosh Baruch Hu is R”L a big meanie in the sky who gave us the mitzvos just to trip us up and trap us in sin so we can be punished?
WolfishMusings,
A. Other people don’t seem to have these doubts. They’re confident that they have fulfilled the mitzvos, and perhaps they have.
That doesn’t make sense. If I have confidence that I’m the president of the United States, I might actually be the president?
And besides that, just because you don’t see people having doubts doesn’t mean they don’t have them.
B. Even if the previous point is false and I am like every other Jew, so what? Does the fact that everyone else fails at a task magically make it okay for me to do so too?
The gemara says that even the least of the Jews are as full of mitzvos as a pomegranate is full of seeds.
I have heard that you can safely ignore anything written after the words “I have heard” in an OP.
zahavasdad,
One should see alternatives to allow one to recharge and take a break with things that are kosher or pareve (Fully kosher activities might not be available so Pareve ones are good too)
Kosher or pareve? Huh?
WolfishMusings,
My problem is with positive commandments, where, despite my best efforts (which, admittedly, maybe aren’t enough), I can’t say that I’ve ever actually fulfilled one.
And how does this make you different from any other Jew?