Avram in MD

zahavasdad,

People jump off the GW Bridge all the time, Getting stuck in traffic right before traffic also happens all the time on Fridays. And I also belive many people in the same circumstance would do the same thing

I actually don’t think that either story (missing kid “Mincha Service” at a football game and the GW Bridge Shabbos divers) is true, although for the sake of the discussion here it doesn’t really matter, since both stories reflect basic themes that are true. They may well have been based on true stories with details that got changed or exaggerated over time with the retelling.

1. Reporting a missing kid would result in a search and police response, not just a loudspeaker announcement (would a little kid be able to find his way to “Section 301, left side”?), and subsequently big trouble for the guy who reported what turned out to be a fabrication. If such a thing were actually done, it would have been a request to locate an adult who got separated from his party.

2. When you originally presented the story, you said the guy was driving into Manhattan from Teaneck, but the version in the link you provided had the guy driving out of the City to the Catskills.

3. Given a stopped car with flashers on, I would think the most likely conclusion would be that the car was abandoned due to malfunction. Would police really send divers into the cold river without a witness to the jump, a suicide note, or any other indication? How would they even know where in the river to search?

4. Would the police really be instantly angry when someone turned out not to be dead?

Syag Lchochma,

And the fact that some of you are brushing this off without being disturbed by the sheker and geneivas daas issues is both horrifying to me and says a lot about how you live your lives. [emphasis mine]

What does it say, and what do you mean?

coffee addict,

That guy is a self centered rasha

I found the story to be very funny, but in the context that I don’t believe it actually happened. If it did happen in real life, I would think the person would also believe that he was being “funny”, and not really cognizant of the consequences or maliciously deceitful. So thoughtless, yes. Stupid? Yes. Self centered? Probably. But a rasha? I doubt it.

Vienna,

I understand from all the comments that the leaders are against it and it’s not traditional,

As skripka noted above, the ordination of women is not the only issue that led to the kol korei.

but does anyone think there’s anything inherently wrong with having a female Rav? If so, what? Why can’t a woman speak Torah from the bimah?

If the primary role of a rabbi was to speak Torah from the bimah, then assuming there was a way around any issues of tznius, perhaps there wouldn’t be any further serious problems with a woman being a rabbi. Orthodox women give lectures and shiurim all of the time. The thing is, that’s not the main purpose of a rabbi.

Perhaps the most important role of a rabbi is to serve as a dayan: a judge who sits as part of a beis din to rule on matters of halacha. According to halacha, a dayan must be male, so to appoint a woman as a rabbi doesn’t really make sense. So when Open Orthodoxy ordains women, they are doing either or both of the following: 1. Altering halacha to permit women to be judges, and/or 2. Altering what a rabbi is. From an Orthodox standpoint, where halacha is our lifeblood, and the arbiters of halacha are rabbis, such actions are regarded as highly dangerous.

Personally, this reminds me of Jackie Robinson and baseball. At first everyone said black people would ruin baseball, but then everyone just shrugged and accepted it.

I think the comparison of Orthodox Jewish viewpoints to racist ones is fallacious and offensive.

zahavasdad,

You can say how great the YU candidate is, He is more qualified. Got a degree in psychology , has a great personality and will get more people to come join the Shul

The thing is, both candidates may come off as qualified. Both may have degrees in psychology. Both may have great personalities, and both may cause 3,000 new families to apply for shul membership the minute after the first sermon. Both may have saved a kitty on the way to the interview. But one will preserve the Orthodoxy of the shul, and the other one will not. If that is important to the people in the shul, then they need to know. I think that is the point of the kol korei.

zahavasdad,

I eat it with my bare hands.

I’m not a wine connoisseur, but in general the less like cough syrup it tastes, the more I like it.

zahavasdad,

(I dont know of any others except for the Hebrew Institute).

In communities not far from mine, there are three Open Orthodox shuls (two of which were previously Orthodox shuls, and one still uses the term “modern Orthodox” instead of Open Orthodox), and a private school with an Open Orthodox rabbi as religious supervisor (previously modern Orthodox). The Open Orthodox rabbis have even formed their own vaad hakashrus, and are extremely vocal outside of the frum community, often criticizing the mainstream Orthodox bodies.

zahavasdad,

There is an old adage, you catch more flies with Honey than vinegar.

1. Vinegar attracts flies better than honey, so I usually say bees when using that adage 🙂

2. I do not believe that swaying the Open Orthodox leadership back into the fold was the intention of the kol korei.

Syag Lchochma,

tuna > sushi > morning sickness for 4 months > gefilte fish

Funny!

Back to Gan Eden to throttle a certain snake before it spoke to anyone… 🙂

zahavasdad,

if They wanted to condem Avi Weiss and say you cant drink his wine that is one thing. However if you say you cant drink the wine of someone who jsut happens to go to Hebrew Institute of Riverdale thats differnet , if someone goes to such a shul you need to act very differently . The lay person are not degenerating the torah, they are just following their leaders.

I’m confused. Where in the kol korei was there anything about drinking/touching wine mentioned? Or anything about laypeople?

The main point I saw from it was that Open Orthodoxy was not a form of Torah Judaism (i.e., Orthodoxy), and therefore their leaders are not rabbis, despite their usage of the terms rabbi and semicha.

It also ended with a prayer for mercy upon all Jews (regardless of affiliation).

rather relate the truth than observe some contorted convention invented in academia

And now ad hominem itself is attacked with an ad hominem argument. This is amazing 🙂

Comlink-X,

Does anyone know of any reliable sources that back this up?

Moshe Rabbeinu himself?

??? ????????? ???? ???????? ????????? ????? ???? ?????????? ??? ??????????? ?????? ????? ???????? ????? ???????? ???????????

There’s a difference between being a masculist and a misogynist.

I really like sushi.

I like gefilte fish.

I usually pass on the herring.

popa_bar_abba,

Ok, but suppose I was serving them at a bris, along with lox, cream cheese, tuna salad, and rugelach. Is it ok for you to say, “dog feces bagel, ewwwwww”?

Hmmm, probably not a good idea to say anything to the baal simcha in that case, just back away slowwwly, and then run faster than you have ever run before.

But if there’s chrain, perhaps you can cover it up with that.

popa_bar_abba,

1. If such occurred in real-life conversation, try, “could we please change the subject? I would really prefer to not talk about fecal bagels.”

2. In the CR, even easier: don’t open the thread!

zahavasdad,

I think this is one of those things that some dont get, Some people just like or dislike certain foods.

I think most of the posters here “get” that. I think the problem they may be having is with the impoliteness of declaring foods that they happen to like to be disgusting and vile, which are very strong words.

Yes, people should be tolerant of the fact that you do not like gefilte fish, but you should also be tolerant of the fact that others do like it. And that they do not like having foods that they eat frequently described with the same adjectives that one would use for excrement.

In our home, we do not force our children to eat things that they do not like. But we do stop them if they say “yuck” or “gross” and instead suggest that they say, “no, thank you”, or “I do not prefer to eat that.”

The Goq,

is it bad because it is not a good comparison or is it bad because it conflicts with your viewpoint.

I know this thread is two years old, but my feeling is that your OP moshol does not make a completely fair comparison. There is a world of difference between taking out the trash (2 to 5 minutes), clearing the table (5-10 minutes), changing the laundry over (2-5 minutes), and army service, which is 2-3 years immersed in an environment that is frequently hostile towards chareidim. I think the essence of your point, that those who benefit should also contribute in some form, stands, but the moshol you provided trivializes the chareidi viewpoint.

DaMoshe,

I would really miss your posts if you left. Some of my thoughts in the wake of the “Modern Orthodox” and “Chassidus” threads are:

1. The truly bad posts are coming from a very small minority of posters. And it is no use attempting to convince or reason with them, because they are not here for a discussion. There is a cartoon drawn with stick figures with a man saying, “I cannot come to bed, because someone is WRONG on the Internet!”

2. No matter what viewpoint you hold, somebody in the world will think you are wrong, an idolater, whatever. I have seen invective from religious Zionists on other sites that more than matches what’s written here, including astonishing disrespect for gedolim. Seriously, we are all apikorsim if we do, apikorsim if we don’t. So what can we do? Sincerely seek Hashem and strive to live by His Torah, and iy”H He will take care of us and forgive us for any unintentional errors.

3. I think The Goq’s metaphor is spot on.

Loaf. Baked until brown on the outside. Served with carrots, onions, and chrain, or covered with tomato sauce before baking.

DaMoshe,

Is this an ironic spin-off from the “Modern Orthodox” thread?

mtydhd,

My wife feels I should not drive her.

Seriously, how can it even be a question after this?

newbee,

When I lived in a certain city I went 2 years without a parking spot … After 2 years, I was finally able to afford a parking spot right next to my apartment. That “luxury” was needless to say, very, very nice.

Your moshol seems to prove my point – during those two years you were probably wishing every day for a parking spot, because you knew that with a parking spot, you could do your grocery shopping with less hardship. You didn’t secretly wish that you wouldn’t get a parking spot.

If I never would have gone those 2 years without the parking spot, or if I would have moved into a different town where there is parking everywhere, that pleasure of having that specific parking spot would never has been as great.

I think that speaks more to human nature than the way things should be. We don’t truly appreciate what we have unless we don’t have it, and that is unfortunate. I feel that one of the big points of Judaism is to learn to truly appreciate what we have when we have it, and I think this midda will be perfected during yemos Hamoshiach. I think eventually during the days of Moshiach, the “bad” years prior won’t even be remembered at all.

Thats how I view techias hameisim- you cant truly get the reward of fighting and working with the guf without the guf itself.

Hashem did not originally set Adam Harishon up for a fight. He placed him in a garden where all of his needs were cared for, where Hashem could “walk” with him (extreme closeness), and the Tree of Life was right there for the taking. There may not have been a techias meisim, because there didn’t have to be meisim at all! Adam chose to pick a fight, so now we have to fight and deal with death. But that is not our ideal state!

The US, especially east of the Mississippi River, has considerable diversity in regional dialects as well, well beyond the New York vs. Southern vs. Midwest which was mentioned previously in this thread.

An Alabama “Southern accent” is different than a typical Georgia accent (the “drawl” is much more apparent), and South Carolina, Tidewater VA, etc. are also distinct from each other. Rural southern Appalachian (y’all becomes you’uns) accents are very different from other “Southern” accents, and can be difficult for outsiders to understand. Baltimore residents have a distinct dialect (Bawlmerese, hon!), which is similar to Philadelphia (their NFL team is properly known as the Iggles). In Boston (Bahstin), you pahk yaw cah neah da Dunkin Donuts to get a drink at the bubbly.