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#1 – Its not a “crazy life” in a bad way; its more like “mad” or “the bomb” (is that term still in use?)
#2 – the reason that phrase was on the table is we have the Rechnitzer Rejects CD in the car, and they use the “vida loca” tune for the song “he’s a yeshiva bocher” (and my kids thought it was a riot that the real words are to a song which promotes the exact opposite (?) of the life of a yeshiva bocher
#3 – Blinky, had you been this “nerdy, un-with it” person, you’d have said, “a klienfeld gown? Why would I want a gown from the kleinfeld family? I don’t even know them!”
Ok, you may not be the Range Rover, sportfan that Sac is. But somehow, I don’t see you as the frumpy, kensetonia, ears covered type either. You push back too hard when cornered.
If I had to guess, I’d say Honda Oddessy EX-L is your ride, but your more likely to be spotted in H & M, than S & W.
Am I close?
Tell me about it. Lucky for me, my parents have already given me and my siblings the only thing of real value they have to give, and they split it equally
(it was the 1st class parenting we got as kids, which IMHO, made us the super-duper-A++ people we are!)
That, and the ranch in Wyoming, but that’s held in trust, so neither of us can run away with that 🙁
I read it too. Nothing I have’nt read or heard before.
IMHO, the main cause of kids going off (or worse, feeling dead, disconected) is when they see / hear inconsistancies.
If they hear from the pulpit “movies are bad” yet mom rents DVDs to watch on the home computer, or they read “stealing / lying is bad” but they see big bro’ earning $ off the books so he can get Fetteh Shmiel to pay the rent, that gives a teen a mixed message.
So who screams louder? Hands down, Madison Ave, which tells you, forget yashrus, there’s no justice anyhow.. live for today, and do what you want.
That sends kids into a tailspin.
Sorry Squeak – you lost me on the wagon. And as far as the La vida comment, belive me, I’m hardly the one to spoil a good party.
But kids do need to see consistancy, and get mixed messages when they see otherwise, so that’s why I brought it up., It was just an expression.
Besides, I’m not even sure if most people know who Ricky is, anyways, so the comment probably passed without a ripple
Oomis, can’t you see we’re talking cars and makeup? Whats with the choc chips? (no offense, but, I mean, cars….)
Sac, Ok, no Maxima / Pilot for you. Hmmm, lets see. What’s appropropriate…?
Baby Lexus SUV? Nah,
Accord, V8, with leather and Bose upgrade? Maybe.
Oh, don’t tell me – a hooked up Caddy, with a cherry light!
VROOOM!
(And forget how I know you speed; did’nt you think its odd I <know> you’ll be passing me on the GSP?
“Not sure where this ties in anyway”
Not I –
The fact that you don’t know how this ties in is a good sign! It means you don’t know any of the “hocker / tuna bagel / square-back people. (Sad to admit, I know more than a few)
Believe me, when you see one, you’ll know it. And then you’ll say, “oh, thats what BPT meant”
OK, people, back off.. I was just being funny. But now that I see Hashemsprincess has a real issue, I’ll answer seriously.
Princess – It may not be true, but if that’s the perception,you should try to address that. Not defend yourself, just clarify the stiuation.
My wife had a “falling out” (her words) with a friend, and she says she feels that way because phone calls went unreturned.
So, rather than let things fester, I did the sensible thing; I asked the friends husband if he wants to eat out. Once at the table, the 2 Mrs. were soon back on good terms. Not that there was a problem.. only a PERCIEVED problem.
If its a friend, call and ask to clarify.
Another incarnation of this, now that I think of it, are siblings (or siblings-in-law) that take each other to court to contest wills and estates.
Not pretty, but business is business!
MonseyGirl –
Could you please explain what you mean by Yeshivish, yet “not aidel”?
I know what yeshivish is, and I sure know what not aidel is, but how can the two co-exist?
I’ve heard of “yeshivish, but with it” (not sure what “it” is, though), but I can sort of picture who that person might be (Sac comes to mind; Blinky is another perhaps, but with less moxie than Sac).
But who would want the title “not aidel”?
I don’t leave early, but often come late, so I usualy switch rooms to a differnt minyan, so I can catch what I missed in the one that I picked up in middle, and then leave once I’ve filled in all the gaps (Example: I’ll hear kriyas hatorah at the 6:15 minyan, and then leave right before kriyas torah of the 7:00 minyan)
But for the folks who do leave early, this morning, could have been one of mine. I davened at a minyan with a bal tefila whose voice roller-coasted (loud/low/on tune/off tune) and to my right, was someone who felt necessary to SHOUT his way thru davening.
If ever there was a time that I would have left early, this would have been it. I’m a pretty patient guy, but whose to say what anothers patientce breaking-point is?
Don’t judge another for leaving early.
Its sorta like “ya gotta do whatcha gotta do”
Or in english, whatever it takes to close the deal no matter what tactics you use, or firing your nephew, beacause you can replace him for $5/hr less.
My personal favorite is, knowing your factory overseas employs 12 year olds, working 15 hour days, getting $6 /wk. Business is business.
The bottom line is the only one. (not the way we CR folks do business, but thats the gist of it)
Summary please? I get Hamodia, so I don’t know what the artice was about.
You? Low maintenece? I’ll bet your makeup buget alone could fund a small country. And no Toyota Camry for you and your shanah rishona…. when I see the Nissan Maxima blow past me at 80 mph on the Garden State, I’ll think it was you (The Honda Pilot can wait till you need to drive car pool)
vnishmartemmeod makes a good point. If this story (and the “typical teen” thread) get us thinking about things we can do to prevent this, it is worth our time and attention to this story.
If its just info gathering, then its a waste of time.
Lets make it the former!
By the way, the phrase “tuna bagel” is not whats really used anymore. Those guys are refered to as “square-backs”, refering to the haircuts they get, visible from under the $3500 shtramel, as opposed to the really emese chassidishe chevrah, who get 1s or zeros.
“Hockers” are another good choice, but squarebacks is really the way to go.
If you can see a flaw, are you REALLY a friend?
“Modern Yeshivish”
OK, I guess that dove-tails with my “Yeshivish, with a chassidish flavor; like Vein, but not Hungarian” tag, which my wife pinned on me (she btw is not vein and only 50% hungarian)
There are 2 other labels I just came across which I’m going to dig into later on; someone described herself as “yeshivish, but not an aidel maidel” and the other one is “yeshivish, but with it”
There was also a passing mention of girls who are described as “out-of-town” in contrast with the yeshivish variations, so that thread should keep me busy for a while
Kinda confusing, but thats what makes NYC so much fun!
We’re talking about the same building. The one that was discussed a few weeks ago was the one by Frank Gehry, but I thoiuht its only visible from the Bklyn Bridge (unless you’re right in front of it).
But I would imagine the wavy effect is best seen from a distance
All I can say Oomis, (and I mean this with the utmost respect to you)if you could be a guy for just 10 seconds, you’d understand why this is raising such hackles.
Hair on a woman’s armpit or legs? Not something I wanna contemplate. A waxed male body? Also something I don’t wanna contemplate.
Lets just say we respectfuly disagree
Thats different. What tumult is about is a social / cosmetic move.
It was heresay, from what I gathered in shul. It did not make the press, so I doubt it was 4, and doubt it was from a “mitzuyan” place, and doubt there were 4 divorces in one fell swoop.
The whole story sounded a bit vauge.
Doc P –
I’m still trying to figure out the “plane and wagon” riddle that Squeak tossed out last week.
Any ideas?
Yes, I do remember that gemorah. But its the wifes who are doing the plucking, not the husband who thinks he’ll look better w/o body hair.
Besides, who in their right mind wants two wives? Between that story, and the “aishes yifas tohar / shtei nashim /ben sorre ‘umoreh senario, I can’t imagine the upshot to having an additional spouse.
Glad to see you’re in a good mood, Sac, becuase I want to hold your feet to the fire for a minute.
The “ben torah” thread has gotten a bit noisy, so I’m not going to post there, but seriouly, can you really expect to meld “la vida loca” with that of a torah household? True, adults can draw fine and even sometimes fuzzy lines between what’s right and what’s not.
Kids, (which you will I”H have) cannot draw those same conclusions. If I have acheived any degree of success in raising my kids, its been this: They see a consistant picture. No, I don’t walk around with blinders, nor do my kids. But to say that movies are a mesh with torah? Gee, that’s a stretch.
At any rate, don’t discount what I said about you and chinuch. Now more than ever before, we need teachers that are on fire.
Not any time soon, Blink. The “broken telephone” story I undertook will keep me hopping for at least a week.
Unlike my usual posts, the “telephone” story will require thought!
“congregation ahavas achim”.
Very funny APY!
And Homeowner – I should correct myself. In a case of medical necessity, I’m sure a heter would be forthcoming and proper.
But from the OP, it seemed to imply this was coming at us from a cosmetic view, not medical
You have a point, Holy Brother. But why, then is there no word or phrase in loshon kodesh (not ivrit, loshon kodesh) for the concept? I’m not trying to negate the concept; its just the word “esteem” is not one we usualy link to people.
And by the way, is your tag “holy brother” indicitive of your Carlebach leanings? If so, you are indeed a holy brother!
Sac – I just saw your post on the “Ben torah” thread, and saw your age. That explains alot. At 23, you’re mature enough to have an idea of where you’re headed, yet still young enough to be in tune with today’s reality on the ground.
Sorry for having underestimated your age. Its not every day I come across skirted sports fans in their 20s.
At any rate, what I said about your “typical teen” post still stands. Very passionate and very well written.
Ok Sac, tell us the truth. Are you a teen, or the PARENT of a teen? That’s my way of paying you a compliment. The 1st post you amde on the “typical teen” thread was so insightful and so powerful, it just floored me.
OK, I know you’re a teen, but wow, you sure have your head on straight! Consider a carrear in chinuch. You could change the world.
And Sac, please stop by the General Shmooze thread. I have a question / comment for you, but do not want to hijack this thread.
Smiley –
I joined this thread too late to add anything. But your OP is too good to allow to go unanswered.
Are you typical or atypical? I’d say both: typical, because you, like most intellegent teens have questions. Atypical, because you had the courage to ask.
Teens like yourself are not the problem.. they are the soloution! If more young adults asked questions, our yeshivos would not be able to be satisfied with the status quo.
I’ll just add this: not only is judiasm a religion of questions, but once you start asking, you’ll see that the answers were right there in front of you. 2 examples:
1) Ain k’Elokainu, ain k”Adonainu is followed by Mi k’Elokainu, mi k’Adonainu. Got questions? Good! We’ve got answers!
2) Rambam wrote Moreh Nevuchim, which has lots of questions and lots of answers. I was told, he really “wrote” it in reverse; he knew the “answers” (meaning, the fundamentals of emunah), and then set out to see what questions could be answered with these fundamentals.
Don’t let anything stop you Smileyface!
Infested? You bet. That’s why they invented soapy water and eyes to check for bugs.
I asked several of my friends about this, and it appears that the concept of “self” is just not something jews really specialize in in and of itself. We are always part of something bigger (family, klal, ect) so everything gets tied to the something beyond your own personal space.
We need to be “ourselves”, but we are never “selfish”.
Mazel tov, Blinky!
Now lets hear the mazel tov we’re all waiting for…… (and remember, simcha goreres simcha!)
When all is said and done, I think both the “learners” and the “workers” all share a common goal. Its just we differ on how best to achieve that goal.
Like most things discussed on-line, the opening of a dialouge is the 1st step towards a soloution. Just a few years ago, there was no such thing as an “open forum” where a discussion like this could take place on a ground level. I would never have the podium to state my case, and if I was rich enought / clout enoght to buy one, whatrutalkingabt and SoRight would never be able to challenge me.
So in the end, we come to a middle ground. And everyone wins.
OK, I suppose if we had a frum olympic swimmer with sholom bayis problems, we could make a case for shaving.
But Oomis – for a wife to say she finds her husbands chest repulsive? Boy, have we got a dire need for a Rov to intervene. But not for the shaving heter.
Sorry, I’m just not on board with this one.
You alread have that, same as us men do. I come here (as I presume most people do) to hear opinions you would not normally hear in the outside world.
Besides, Oomis, when else would you have the chance to tell me about the cute things your einikle does?
I’m not a huge fan, but the romaine lettuce you can get from a local farm is a deep green, whereas the stuff you get in a 3-pack from the fruit store is almost the color of Iceberg lettuce.
Most other fruits / veggies are hard for me to tell the fresh from the commercial stuff.
I had a similar experience, but it was in Spanish. I needed to call a client in Argentina, but could not get past his switchboard, as I don’t speak Spanish, and my parner (who does speak) was not there at the time. So I asked a whse worker to place the call.
The switchboard tells my whse worker the person I want “retired”.
WHHAAT!!? I have this huge deal pending and he retired??!!
After the shock wore off, it seems that the dialect my worker speaks is a bit different than the one spoken in Aregentina, so “retired” means he went home for the evening.
Whew!
As long as the refernces do not indicate a problem, I would allow my son to date someone based on a report like that. I would if at all possible like to have my wife be able to see her at a neutral venue (a chasseneh, in shul, ect) just to get a visual. Not a formal intro; just a visual. It ties the tech data together so you have a credible idea of who she is.
Nothing takes the place of a date though. But if my son is serious about getting married, he should be willing to invest his time and energy, just like she is.
After all, she checked him out, no doubt. (and hopefully, poppa has eyeballed my son as well)
If she thinks he is worth her time and kishes, he should be willing to do the same
And Chosson, you were right. The title “R” is not used in Ger.
My friend told me its largly avoided becuase the shteebl he davens in is mostly people in his age bracket, but when it come to it, younger people will call older people by first name if need be.
special kesher in the palm made with the tefilin shel yad that I know nobody else makes.
Prof –
I’m not Ger, so I’m not sure what you mean (but I will follow up with my Gerrer friend).
As it happens, I make an additional kesher in the palm of my hand with the retzuos. Long story how I started doing so, but the clincher was what the rebbe said ” ah yid darf a extra kesher mit’n Riboinoi Shel Oilom”
How did know? The shaddchan told me so!
Seriously. We had a 6 hour 1st date, followed by two daytime dates that were 6-8 hours long. If that’s not a sign we can marry, I’m not sure what is.
That and the fact she said “yes, I’ll marry you” sorta nailed it.
And no, Oomis; that sort of grooming is in the 100% clear for a woman. But for a male to consider shaving his chest? Feh.
Halocho or not, take it from a male… the very question raises suspicions. End of story.
And Sac,, I gotta admit, you make the CR interesting!
Still, I can’t seem to reconcile the Sac who “lives on the edge” with the Sac that wrote such a nice thing about her father in another thread.
And I’m still waiting for your answer to the “heimish-chassidish-modernish-flexidish” question.
Or are you too complex to be limited to either of these tags?
As long as none of us “fall off the wagon”!
But that’s not why I’m here today. Wanna see how bad $$$$ can get spent? NY Times has a story today about a British Navy stealth sub, with all the latest and greatest techno-gadgets, yet for one reason or another, it ran aground and is stuck in a mud bank. (in full view from the river bank, I might add)
And we flip over a $5 hammer and $30 toilet seat? By comparison, our Govt looks pretty good right now!
I agree with APY.. some of the stuff that’s making the cut lately has been, uh, shall we say, “on the edge”?