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Is this a 1 in a hundred thousand occurrence?
Should we also stop the Choson from breaking the glass under the Chupa since there are well documented instances, multiple times, where he cut himself and need to be taken from the chasuna?
PM: Since you have Reb Moshe’s teshuva that mentions bshas hadchak, could you be kind enough to post a full and faithful verbatim English translation of that teshuva so we can all determine for ourselves what Reb Moshe is saying?
Powdered milk may be a different shaila than cholov stam.
Who could believe hearsay that their mothers brothers bubbas husband personally witnessed Hershy bars in Reb Moshe’s fridge or their best friends wife’s mother personally poured cholov stam milk in Reb Dovid’s mouth? You either have a mekor or you don’t.
There is no “interpretations”. Reb Moshe twice wrote bshas hadchak, and Reb Moshe meant what he wrote.
squeak:
What exactly is the definition of “high social status”?
Is not a Jew by definition of a high social status? (Presuming he doesn’t blow it.)
Is economic status another option of attaining “high social status”, to education?
How much education/affluence meets its requirements?
What is the benefit of attaining “high social status”?
I’ve noticed over the past few months here, especially in the general threads, that boys and girls of all ages, including notably some eishes ish’s, have been socialising with each other in a lax manner. I find this a troubling, and people need to use better senses. I know these kinds of loose conversations would not take place between these same people in real life. I don’t know of any heter to do so online. I think we all are aware of stories where such behavior led to improper activities. Rabbosai, please use better judgement and maintain the proper distance from the other gender than befits a Ben Torah and Bas Yisroel.
aryehm: It says in the Igros Moshe, as well as a letter Reb Moshe signed that is published elsewhere, that the heter for cholov stam is only bshas hadchak. (For a non-baal nefesh; Reb Moshe wrote that a baal nefesh doesn’t use the heter even bshas hadchak.) “The Big One” posted the mekoros in the IM as well as the other letter, earlier in this thread. One talmid muvhak said Reb Moshe threw up when he was told what he ate was cholov stam; another claims he witnessed cholov stam in the fridge/fed to family members. Anecdotes of Reb Moshe (or anyone for that matter), however reliable or otherwise, don’t negate a psak din. You need a mekor.
gavra_at_work: I understand you are referring to people who are not yet on the observance level, that they need to work on other areas first e.g. getting rid of the shmutz tube, before working on other areas. I hear you. I don’t think anyone on the thread disagrees with that. We’re talking about people who mistakenly think that cholov stam is 100% okay anytime, including non-bshas hadchak, and are able to do the right thing.
The Rosh in Sukka 3:14 discusses the issue of heter b’shaas hadchak as opposed to other times very clearly. K’dai to see.
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If you take a look at the S”A Orach Chayim, Siman 58, Seif 4, the Mechaber paskens that if an individual who is not an “anoos” went ahead and leined krias shema after alos and before neitz, that person is yoitzeh bediavad.
The MB in seif katan 19 states that if the person who is in a situation of “sha’as hadchak” needs to lein k”s, even on a consistent basis, then it is permitted for him to act accordingly, because what else can he (i.e. no alternative). However, a person who relies of this leniency and is not in a position of “sha’as hadchak” than he may be yoitzeh bdiavad on occasion but if he relies on it consistently, than he is no even yoitzeh bdiavad.
Personally, I don’t experiance spoilage with cholov yisroel milk. (In NYC).
But even that aside, I think it is an unfair stretch to say that is a bshas hadchak. Try researching what constitutes a bshas hadchak halachicly. You may be surprised.
To summarize, it has been established here that:
- Cholov Yisroel is mandated in halacha by Shulchan Aruch
- Reb Moshe paskened there is a heter to rely on the American government to establish Cholov Yisroel
- Reb Moshe stated this heter is only in force Bshas Hadchak
- Reb Moshe stated, even yet, a Baal Nefesh would not rely on this heter
Questions:
gavra_at_work, How can one disregard a kula that specifically doesn’t exist except under specified conditions? And keeping other mitzvos does not exclude keeping this one. Should we not strongly encourage others to keep this mitzvah in Shulchan Aruch?
Jothar, How do non-psak anecdotes of Reb Dovid negate a psak?
Clarifications:
gavra_at_work, Can you elucidate who Rav Bick was, his position, and how America became his “assra”?
Anyone, What are “yad zorim” (in a Sefer perhaps)?
Attn: cherrybim is right and we’re all wrong. cherry is right and knows better than the G’dolim. cherrybim knows when the G’dolim are serious and has determined that though they support the rescue efforts of the bochorim, that it is less than serious. We must all thank cherrybim for enlightening us and the G’dolim
In the Sefer that Bogen quoted, the alluring is referring only to the clothing (“alluring clothing”), while the rest of the items (jewlery, makeup, and perfume) are said to be assur unless used when a woman is alone with her husband.
While it is debatable if he said it in too strong language, I do agree with Itzik’s point in his comments in this thread.
azi, you seemed to posit that it was acceptable that some women didn’t cover their hair, and use the aruch hashulchan to prove that when in fact that sefer greatly bemoans (“Now let us come and cry out regarding the immodesty”) that.
dd: no one here is advocating any kula when it comes to the possibility or safek of gneiva.
dd: no one here is advocating any kula when it comes to the possibility or safek of gneiva.
azi: squeak is right. you posited the aruch hashulchan permits the hair to be uncovered and you were shown the quote from the sefer that says the exact opposite. so the facts aren’t on your side and you should take squeak’s advice and correct your errors.
asdf, why does everyone think you live in flatbush (i just read that jetblue thread)?
Curious, how long ago? I thought you were pretty young.
can we opt-out of these mailings?
This debate is a bit silly. Zionism is dead.