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So who do you plan to vote for?
These businesses didn’t just fail, they were scams to begin with.
3. Jerks who don’t tell you about $195 deals to Eretz Yisroel
4. Jerks who ignore your emails
5. Jerks who troll tzedakah groups
Thanks.
Any other products besides waffles and tuna? I am also aware of potato chips being a shailah, but my posek is meikil.
Wolf, I don’t think that policy is halachically correct.
I think that’s taking things too far.
?? ??? ????
Of course there’s an inyan to daven (and you make a correct and important point that the inyan of keeping shalom is bigger).
I’m discussing a situation where one won’t be davening, let’s say because he stutters, or has eim’sa d’tzibbura. Should he davka try to find a minyan where there is another chiyuv?
Come on, now. You wrote, Not quite the same as the story ZD seemed to have been relaying. and, It is a different story.
Is there an inyan for an avel who doesn’t daven for the amud to find a minyan with an avel already davening? The end result is the same.
I would think if someone is not comfortable with being shaliach tzibbur, he can daven wherever he wishes.
NDG, how is the story substantially different?
LC, what do you mean, “in some ways”? My understanding is that it was very, very, bad.
I only use OU tuna with bishul yisroel/hashgacha temidis.
Same here. I’ve seen people unaware that there are shailos on regular OU tuna, and when made aware, found out that their poskim actually are machmir.
I don’t rely on OU-D, but will confirm if OU-D items are just dairy equipment or are actual dairy, on a case by case basis.
You’re not makpid on keilim?
I only buy meat with an OU (generally BYL or another reliably beis yosef brand)
Which meats don’t have an OU?
I try to buy canned and processed foods with a chashash of pas akum or bishul akum with a heimish hechsher where they take care of these concerns.
Which products have a chashash?
Twizzlers are cooked somehow.
Pas akum and bishul akum are two separate gezeiros, with different sets of halachos.
its all done by machines
Someone turns the machines on.
Of course they’re not pas Yisroel; they’re not pas!
Are they different? I have no idea.
Let’s say, though, for instance, that whichever hechsher it is does not allow confectioners glaze (the OU does).
Someone who doesn’t eat confectioners glaze would only eat Twizzlers because of the sticker (although if he does research and determines that no Twizzlers have it, he may choose to eat it even without a sticker).
If an End brand is Hemish, but uses O-U ingridents , really what is the difference?
The other hechsherim don’t accept every OU ingredient and process, only some. The example you gave actually demonstrates the point – if cookies only have an OU, they’re probably not pas Yisroel; with a heimishe hechsher, they are. (I’m not aware of any heimishe hechsher which allows pas palter.)
Perhaps, but people who live in places where the frum brands are available don’t need to buy end products certified exclusively by the OU.
They were lentils.
http://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=6&daf=83b&format=pdf
The story is very much like ZD said, and ZD was open about the fact that he did not recall the entire story, and that his point wasn’t the story, but that the Chofetz Chaim had a granddaughter who nebach wasn’t frum.
Yes, I know.
What is lipstick?
Joseph calls his wife “ox”.
Of course, the MO I was referring to is Greek.
(I don’t know what lipstick is referring to.)
Unless you use it as English – method of operation.
Yes, they do that.
I’m talking about two different products from the same company.
if you’re not active in the KKK you probably don’t immediately recognize his name.
I suppose I’m probably active in the KKK.
Heaven knows it would be no more scandalous than her usual MO.
I thought Trump was the one whose kids are MO.
If your LOR ruled that the sky was green, would it be green?
It’s a metzius shailah.
Rabbi Genack, same as before.
Let him also pasken whether they’re oiver for giving a hechsher to Welch’s, Lays variety packs, and to Jolly Ranchers altogether.
I would agree that they should stop, but don’t use the term “stumbling block”, which implies an actual issur of lifnei over, which I don’t think they are oiver on.
How long does it take to filter a container?
I’m not so sure other brands are very different than Tropicana in that regard.
OK, chocolate fries.
Or chocolate chips.
Why are “plain chips” assumed to be potato chips? Maybe they’re plain corn chips or plain banana chips or or plain bagel chips or plain wine chips.
You need a Patent / Copyright attorney to decide if the O-U can stop it or not.
Depends for what.
To put an unauthorized OU on a package which is completely uncertified? I don’t need a lawyer for that.
To stop Hershey’s from doing it in the future? They just need to put it in the contract.
Maybe a third party repackager or a store can use it in a completely non-misleading way if the product really is certified.
Popa, my broader point is that people need to take responsibility for what they eat, and checking labels is part of that. I think this is a wonderful example as people seem to be exonerating themselves for any blame for their own carelessness by blaming the OU. Objectively, I do not think this is the OU’s fault, as a very minimal amount of care is needed to see that the gummies aren’t certified. Nevertheless, I think it makes sense to change the policy since l’ma’aseh too many people have been trained to be zombies and just see an OU and proceed to turn their brains off.
This reminds me of the scene from Friday Night at the Hockers where the not frum guy brings a package of cake with lard in it and tells Mr. Hocker that it has an OU – the label says pOUnd cake.
ZD, that’s copyright, this is trademark.
Shopping, they are individually sealed, I assume, otherwise you are definitely correct.
The OU has no control over labeling and or packaging
If that were true, the symbol would be worthless. Of course they can decide when and how a company can use their trademarked symbol. I don’t see why they can’t tell the manufacturer that this would be unauthorized use.
Should the OU not certify Welch’s/Manischewitz grape juice because someone might buy the non kosher plain Welch’s?
Lays variety pack shows six pictures of chips bags – five non kosher, one (regular Lays) with an OU on it. Someone could see that OU and eat the Cheetos, Doritos, Sun Chips and Fritos, no?
I gave you other examples besides for the person in a hurry, which I believe are very valid.
I responded. Someone incapable of properly reading a food package, whether due to time, reading, language, or other limitations should not be making purchasing decisions.
Apushatayid: Yidden don’t belong in a McDonald, I don’t think it’s a good comparison.
It’s not a good comparison, but not for that reason.
It may be a person in a hurry
Haste makes waste. Someone incapable of properly reading a food package, whether due to time, reading, language, or other limitations should not be making purchasing decisions.
Many people reasonably understand that a food item displaying an OU *anywhere* on the front, back or side of the outside packaging implies that all food items contained within said packaging is certified kosher by the OU.
Al zeh gufa anu danin; I don’t think that’s reasonable.
Yes, of course, if one notices that the hashgacha is part of the ingredient panel and that there are multiple ingredient panels, they would look at the others.
I don’t see how one wouldn’t notice that there are three ingredients panels.
Unless you are interested in the ingredients, for allergy or health reasons, many people do not pay attention to these panelsand lists when making their purchases. They scan the package, find the symbol and buy and eat.
Did you see the package?
There are three varieties, as clearly marked on the front, and there is no hechsher on the front. There are clearly three ingredients panels, on the back, one for each variety. The OU is only on the ingredients panel, which to me clearly means that it only applies to the specific product whose ingredients are listed in said panel.
The non kosher gummy variety does not have an OU on the ingredients panel.
To me, it takes extreme carelessness to make the mistake of thinking that all the varieties are kosher, because it should be obvious that the OU is not for the whole package.
Should the OU have a policy to save very careless people from errors? Perhaps, but if someone ate the gummy candies based on how they read the package, they have primarily themselves to blame.
And OU shouldn’t agree to have their symbol on a package that contains food without their hashgacha.
Perhaps you’re correct, and I overestimate people’s intelligence, diligence, or both. How far should we take it though? Maybe they shouldn’t give a hashgachah to any varieties of Jolly Rancher because one may confuse one with another?
I doubt any of the heimishe hechsherim would ever allow such a thing.
If it was found out quickly because it’s a big hechsher, that also means more people bought it and were subject to eating non kosher, so nothing gained by their being a bigger hechsher.
This was probably further driven by the fact that this package was sold in heimishe stores too
The heimishe stores should not be selling it.
I look all over for a hechsher until I find one. Then I eat it.
You shouldn’t. There are too many vagaries, vaguenesses, and plain errors to not actually be careful about labels.
See, for example:
Also, the OU should be more careful if people are really being nichshol, although it should be the individuals’ responsibility to read labels carefully.
But you don’t know.