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The OP said “someone frummer than you”. Just because you may keep a chumrah that I don’t doesn’t make you more frum than me.
The term “frummer” is used, whether with a positive or negative connotation, to refer to keeping a more stringent halachic standard. By this commonly used definition, keeping extra chumros is synonymous with being “frummer”.
The credited response is to use butter.
Also, it’s very cool when you start threads in Hebrew because then when you randomly link to them like seven months later, I can’t see which thread it was and I have to open it and I end up posting random things on it. Right?
So how did that shidduch work out?
Torah613, that was very cynical of you. Sure that could be a motivation, but mockery can be very powerful and stinging, and understanding where it comes from can be very beneficial in withstanding the effect
Syag, I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think they’re related.
DaMoshe, that doesn’t negate my points.
I don’t know what I said that makes you think I disagree with what you said.
Listening to Vol. I right now. Yakov is now visualizing his mother lighting Shabbos licht.
Vol. I or II?
If you attribute bad weather to Ha-Shem objecting to some policy, then do you attribute good weather to good policies?
When bad things happen, it’s your fault. When good things happen, I get the credit.
Simply put, their common goals and working together towards those goals should bring them together.
On a bit of a deeper level, if their commitment to the RS”O is real (or to whatever extent it’s real) their relationship with each other will be important to them because it is important to the RS”O.
Popa,
It’s quite obvious that you do not follow; rather you make your own way.
147 is implying, I believe, that the concept of shanah rishonah is limited to not going to war, and it’s bal tosif to add concepts such as laying solid foundations.
I find that argument (if that’s what he meant) to be a bit shallow.
I also disagree with you as to what the focus of the foundation of a marriage should be. If the focus would be on the couple’s relationship with HKB’H, the proper dynamic of their relationship with each other (which is indeed important in avodas Hashem) should flow naturally from that.
If someone is in fact taking care of the finances, it is, though, a good attitude to focus on how he’s taking care of his wife.
I don’t pretend to know Hashem’s cheshbonos, but don’t dismiss the possibility that it’s some type of middah k’neged middah just because there is a scientific explanation. Hashem controls nature.
There are articles out there blasting the USA Today for that.
Yes, I tend to believe the USA Today more, but there’s still a chance it works.
Sam and truthsharer, thank you for your responses.
I’m not sure how you know more than anyone else who can Google, but as I mentioned, the results were mixed.
Aside from the article on YWN, I also received a couple of emails from reputable mosdos encouraging me to sign. I find it highly unlikely that there is not even a slight chance of hope with this treatment, and the potential upside is greater than the downside.
I signed the petition.
I know there have been accusations against the clinic. There are also those who defend it. I have no idea who’s right.
We are talking about the only remaining hope for this very sick little boy. It is not my business to budget for the FDA, but kol Yisroel areivin zeh lozeh, so it is my business to do whatever tiny amount of hishtadlus I can if it will offer even a slight chance for this boy to recover, be”H.
No, this doesn’t prove that frum people are sheeple. What it does prove once again is that Yidden are rachmonim b’nei rachmonim.
If you thought SYAS and JWed were apikorsus, you shouldn’t have suggested them.:)
While he’s at work, she has time to sit and learn.
I’m gonna take a guess that 613 isn’t an apikorus.
As for rd, I don’t like to refer to a person as an apikorus, but the viewpoint he espoused, which is apikorsus, was said by implication, not explicitly.
He hasn’t tried to clarify otherwise.
You oisgehert, but do you *DA*oisgehert?
At this point, I’m not even discussing who should and shouldn’t be working or learning full time. I made a simple observation that calling a learner unproductive is precisely what the gemara called apikorsus.
It probably does, but that’s not what he said, anyhow.
He was talking about people. Just as the gemara was.
And I didn’t even bring Abaye in.
Sam, classic ??? ???? ?? ????.
No
Yes and no.
Syag,
so if you want to marry a guy who learns for 3-5 years and then gets a job, but you end up single til 27 and he has already finished those years, does he have to start over again?
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/shidduchim-girls-are-shallow
ROB, I do not throw around the term apikorsus lightly. I used it precisely as the gemara does.
What you wrote, although I disagree with it as well, had nothing to do with my response to rd’s apikorsusdik comment. You created a straw man.
And your bringing up the kesubah again is absolutely nonsensical. The kesuba is a financial document, and if she is mocheles on his financial obligations, it’s a non issue.
Sam, I don’t think it’s for you or me either, but I don’t deny that it’s something to be considered by those with the tools to do so.
That’s a very far cry from calling those solely involved in learning unproductive members of society.
What you bring up doesn’t even belong in the discussion.
I dare you to go up to an Iranian and ask him if he’s Sefardi
I actually did that today, based on this thread. He said yes (then qualified it a bit, but no helmet required).
I am 100% certain you will do x though it was POSSIBLE that you would do y.
By switching to past tense, you avoided the paradox. This is the approach of the “lmaalah min hazman” approach.
Keep the whole sentence in future tense. Then it doesn’t work.
I know, what’s the big deal with tying your tooth to the door? It’s a necessary process. Also, a kidney transplant without anesthesia is worse.
She already explained that she wasn’t saying gehenom is pleasant, just wondering why it’s more talked about than kareis.
they are mutually exclusive.
Now you’re starting to get it. (Don’t you just love when I twist your words).
you can restate it 100 times
73 to go.
Maybe we should try a popcorn analogy.
and its not a paradox just because you say it is.
No, it’s a paradox because it’s logically inconsistent to say that it is 100% certain that I will do X, yet it’s possible that I will do Y.
I am saying that my *knowledge* of what you do has NOTHING to do with your decision making process.
If that knowledge was merely 99.99%, you’d be correct. But since His knowledge is 100%, it does force the decision, because any decision to the contrary would be impossible, because it would be a paradox.
I am NOT saying that it is 100% certain that you will do x yet its possible that you will do y.
Of course you’re not trying to, but that’s the paradox which your disconnecting the two presents.
But I just showed you how it does, because otherwise there’s a paradox.
Can you really digest the notion that it is 100% certain that I will do X, yet it’s possible that I will do Y?
That does not make sense (assuming, of course, that X and Y are mutually exclusive).
Think of it as two people eating pizza while playing chess and dancing.
Let me try to explain it in steps.
1) If someone (in this case, Someone) knows in advance with absolute, 100% certainty, what I will do, that means, by definition, that it is not possible that I will do otherwise.
2) If it is not possible that I will do otherwise, that means that I don’t have a choice.
3) No choice = no free will.
The l’maalah min hazman approach makes it analogous to someone seeing what choice was (focus on the past tense) made, which does not affect the original choice.
I agree with Syag.
Also, YWN’s simcha section allows trolling, which is a big plus.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/someones-having-fun-with-ywns-new-simcha-section
Sam, I was going to say that, but at least you let me explain.
Kareis is only for the more chomur issurim, and only if they are violated intentionally.
Gehinnom is even for (relatively) slight, and/or unintentional infractions.
Hudi, there’s no more bechirah in choosing a chess move than a candy flavor.
No analogy can change the fact that absolute knowledge cannot exist in the same realm as free choice.
Learning is an important value in Judaism, so working is a chillul Hashem.*
*That’s obviously nonsense, but the reasoning is not much worse than rd’s in the above referenced thread.
I brought sources and reasoning, and you merely restated your opinion.
Your inability to separate your own viewpoint from that of the Torah does not make full time learning a chillul Hashem.
You are not smarter, more reasoned, or better informed than the Kessef Mishneh or Igros Moshe. Humility has an important place in Judaism.
Not spouting what the Gemara calls apikorsus also has an important place in Judaism.
And, DY, who’s we? I happen to pasken like the Rambam on this issue, and many others, as well.
See Kessef Mishnah. Also see what Igros Moshe says about someone who decides to “pasken” like the Ramba”m on this.
Also, as I pointed out, even according to the Ramba”m, what you said is apikorsus.
The fact that kareis is worse doesn’t make gehennom any better.
Streekgeek, there’s a lot of truth in what you’re saying, but you should know that I’ve seen people get quite insulted when a shidduch is suggested for their daughter with a boy who’s had a rocky past.
Lol, popa.
Anyone who’s in gehinom by the end of the day will not get a chance to learn tonight anyhow.