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17 is highly unusual, even in Eretz Yisroel and even among chassidim. Maybe 20 for chassidim. Are they defying Chazal?
No litvish Rosh Yeshiva is telling his talmidim to go out at 17 maybe a few are going along with 21, but many aren’t. So you have a choice; either nobody is going against Chazal, or they’re all going against Chazal.
According to Rabbeinu Yonah none are going against Chazal, but there maybe a difference of opinion as to when boys are typically ready to get married.
According to Rabbeinu Joseph and Rabbeinu Libbi they’re all going against Chazal.
That’s a total copout. You’re trying to get out of doing teshuvah by saying it’s klal Yisroel’s problem, not yours.
Do teshuvah yourself, then worry about the rest of us.
Nice that you finally looked it up.
The point is that as the generations become weaker, the age could change, and it’s not against Chazal to say that.
The Pischei Teshuvah (b’shem Rabbeinu Yonah) indeed didn’t specify that boys should delay past 18. He also didn’t live in our generation.
The yesod laid out though, is that Chazal didn’t give an absolute number regardless of the maturity level of the boy.
So, if in a particular generation, it is deemed by its gedolim that boys are often not mature enough to get married until 22-23, they’re not chas v’shalom going against Chazal.
I think you actually agree with the yesod of Rabbeinu Yonah. I don’t see you pushing for boys to start going out at 17.
It’s erev Rosh Chodesh!
What about multiple threads on opposite topics?
May we all do teshuva ASAP so mashiach can come
Real teshuvah, or fake teshuvah, fooling yourself into thinking you’re some kind of tzaddik?
What if I don’t have a good voice?
That didn’t stop the guy sitting next to me this past Shabbos.
How about the start a topic and then complain that there’s such a topic troll?
No, no, I mean real teshuvah, not making yourself feel like a tzaddik teshuvah.
May we all do teshuva ASAP
We’re waiting for you to lead by example.
Recently the liberal media has called Ben Shapiro an anti-semite because he wouldn’t kill baby Hitler.
That’s tranparently bias. It’s a philosophical question, nothing more.
According to Halacha, there’s a mitzvah of מחיית עמלק.
We don’t know fore sure who עמלק is in a literal sense, and it’s it’s not certain that there’s a partial קיום.
What is bein adam lechavro about not being tznius
1) Every bein adam lamakom has an element of bein adam lachaveiro in it, because klal Yisroel is one, and we are all affected by anyone sinning. Kol Yisroel areivim zeh lazeh.
2) Any aveirah done publicly has an even stronger element of bein adam lachaveiro, because it bothers people who are yarei shomayim, and has a negative influence on people.
3) Tznius in particular can be machshil men as well.
She didn’t bash you.
So you’d be in the perfect position to say if it’s him or his mother!
I wouldn’t expect you to say it’s him since he probably knows who you are as well. 🙂
if it’s so easy why are there very frum girls who are very not tznius.
The same reason there are so many very frum girls who eat treif, are mechallel Shabbos, etc.
By definition if you live outside of Brooklyn, you’re not frum.
Or better yet, just start it for me. After all, I’m just a silly old bear with a complex…
I’ll give it a shot.
The 5 towns is not in Brooklyn
Oh, I totally misunderstood this thread.
I thought the 5 Towns were Boro Park, Kensington, Flatbush, Williamsburg, and Bensonhurst.
@daasYochid
He is a boyCould be. How do you know?
How come all orthodox religious Jewish boys are in Shidduchim by 21.
Not all are.
They don`t know of this Rabainu Yonah?
Probably not. Maybe you should take out ads informing the tzibur.
DY: What’s the maare makom for delaying marriage, especially if one isn’t doing so for Limud Torah?
What do you mean? I just gave it to you.
Libbi:
There is a certain Goyishkeit implanted in American people that a boy is not mature until he is 23. When Chazal say & Halacha Paskens that a Bachur should get married younger, it means that he is mature at a much younger age.
This is subject to change as the generations get weaker. See Rabbeinu Yonah quoted by Pischei Teshuvah at the beginning of Even Ho’ezer.
Joseph:
I’m not sure what religion some of the posters here are from, but in my religion we know Shemona Esrei L’Chuppa.
The same religion as Rabbeinu Yonah. It’s called Judaism. What’s yours called?
Furthermore, why do you assume that “he” is mature enough to get married?
There is a certain Goyishkeit implanted in American people that a boy is not mature until he is 23.
Why do you assume this is a boy?
Does this mekubal need to be single, or it’s okay if he’s Sefardi and wants a second wife?
We ‘ll come up with something between the 3 of us
2
Joseph, why are you giving away our secret?
(Didn’t you post a few minutes ago that starting a thread isn’t your thing?
That’s what made me bump it. 😁
TLIK: Amudim’s Tzvi Gluck agrees with Syag.
I did hear a story that the Menhel of Yeshiva of Brooklyn refused to take a donation from Barbara Streisand who graduated from there, so some do refuse the money if they dont like the source
I’ve heard the same story. There are still several differences between that and what’s being discussed.
She is a public figure, known for performances which are not according to Torah standards of tznius, and that’s how she obtained her wealth. She also, according to the way I heard the story, had attended the school, yet was and is very far from epitomizing their ideals.
I believe he generally did accept donations from non frum people.
I won’t be obliged to satisfy your deliberate reluctance to address my point.
I addressed your point directly. As have others. I’ll repeat. We don’t refuse money from people just because they don’t keep every mitzvah they are obligated to. That doesn’t mean we approve of their behavior.
OTOH, money which was obtained through tainted means such as theft, we do refuse. So your continued comparison of the two is befuddling.
Justajew, you had me there for a while, nice troll job.
Are you the same troll as the other 5T thread? If I were a betting man…
Um… Okay, I guess…
Lol! youre kidding right?
No, I don’t think he’s kidding, and in fact, makes a valid point.
People have a yetzer hora, and do things they shouldn’t, and know they shouldn’t, and would be embarrassed if they were discovered.
When someone intentionally does an aveirah in public, there’s a different dynamic going on. Perhaps the person doesn’t know it’s an aveirah, that would make the comparison of the two inapt. Perhaps they know it’s wrong, but don’t have any busha about doing something wrong. That’s also different than a private aveirah (where perhaps the sinner was caught, but they are embarrassed).
Either way, the comparison between someone dressing publicly in an inappropriate manner to these other aveiros, which might very well be bigger aveiros, isn’t a good one.
And so, in the willingness to take funds from those who are not adhering to standards here publicly proclaimed as the measure of whether a community is being polluted or not, my question has been answered too.
You’re the only one here who ever claimed that taking money is some type of measure of pollution.
ZD, they didn’t parade their crimes in public (also, a lot of the charges were dropped).
you obviosuly missed my point
I think you missed Uncle Ben’s point.
A Mechallel Shabbat who gives Tzdekah is more of a Tinok Shenihba than a thief of Drug dealer
A mechallel Shabbos who is not a tinok shenishba can also give tzedaka.
Because I am not trumpeting my actions as the gold standard (or indeed the standard for anyone other than myself) I won’t suffer from that aroma of hypocrisy that is so hard to avoid once one has stepped in it.
You already stepped in it by using the money argument despite saying you would take from a mechallel Shabbos.
Your disclaimer is nonsense.
Your wrong!!!
You’re judging me? Maybe you should give me the benefit of the doubt?
We do need to judge others’ actions. You, in fact, judged others’ actions (posting) as wrong because you feel it’s lashon hora.
I agree about the looking down, and in many cases, judging motivations and levels of nisayon.
I think what’s bothering you is that you’re getting a feeling that posters just want to knock others to make themselves feel superior, and not l’shem shomayim. You might be correct. Perhaps, though, you might want to constantly if you’re judging correctly…
Either way, wrong is wrong and must be judged as such.
And before you ask how I would act, that’s not the point.
That’s an odd statement from someone calling others hypocritical.
I think you’re being disingenuous by implying that I meant it literally.
There no shaychus between your two cases. Stolen money is stolen money.
Money earned by an avaryan isn’t in the same category. Not even close. The money didn’t come through the aveirah.
The Canon PIXMA MG2522 Color Ink-jet – Multifunction printer is on sale at Best Buy for $30.
I don’t know ink prices, but you should check aftermarket brands (e.g. LD).
Yichusdik, I think you’ve mentioned working for kiruv mosdos. Would you turn down a donation from a mechallel Shabbos?
Fortunately, we have not seen the abusive behavior by self-anointed tzinius police here in 5T or other frum U.S. communities as we have seen in several Chareidi neighborhoods.
That’s absolutely untrue.
It seems to me, that if you have the courage of your convictions, it is dirty money.
Don’t be ridiculous. Money belonging to people who violate certain (non financial) issurim isn’t stolen money.
It doesn’t matter how some people dress.
That attitude is precisely what those posting negatively can claim is what they’re fighting against.
I guess its OK to give Tochacha for communities that have tax evaders child molestors , People stealing government benefits like Medicaid or section 8
Is the Five Towns free of all that?