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BTGuy,
Absolutely not. We must be concerned about our fellow human beings, and that would be quite insulting, and cause hard feelings.
Maskim to Gamanit, although there are some halachik differences.
Superstar, click on his screen name.
Popa, great story, thanks for the bump.
he/she wasn’t talking about significant sums of money.
There are plenty of beggars around, and it adds up, especially for someone with very limited funds.
Of course it is the proper thing to help non-Jews as well, but you’re being very loose with your terminology.
GAW,What does that have to do with Kollel?
See my link above. (Don’t forget, you asked for a relationship, not a certainty.)
Yep unless you can tell me how having someone in the house with you contributes to your sense of self, I will contend that it is a juvenile insecurity.
Ironically, since we’re dealing with juveniles, it’s not a na’arish’e reason.
HaKatan,
Popa’s question was only why this is so central, not why it’s preferable.
My response (to that specific point) was that it sets the tone for the entire marriage.
I find it hard to believe that anyone in their right mind thinks that Jews are safer without a Jewish land they can call their own.
And I find it hard to believe that anyone in their right mind thinks that Jews are safest (b’derech hateva) in Israel with an almost nuclear Iran wanting to wipe out Sonei Yisrael.
VM,I also once found evidence that there was someone who claimed to need money, but actually didn’t. I had no choice but to conclude that no one ever needs money.
Maybe you should have concluded that you should do research before giving away significant sums of money, as I’m sure Oomis did.
Wolf,
It happens to be that aniyei E.Y. have a special status. What happened to your long standing rule of AYLOR?
Also, did you notice the paradox between the first paragraph of your post and the second? Does “Tov Hashem lakov v’rachamav al kol ma’asav” not apply to people from a different city?
DR,
If someone on this anonymous forum would tell you that this fellow is a lamed vovnik or a neo Nazi, you would believe it and act accordingly?
Can you please make this a multiple choice question?
T613t,
Yes, that was my most recently posted reason. Maybe it really is part of the thought process.
MorahRach,
You are very being very judgemental to assume that I was ch”v being inappropriate. As GAW pointed out, it simply means that I was joking (thanks, GAW, for having my back). I used it in this case to demonstrate that that my first comment was not made to offend, yet you used the emoticon to attack me. Let’s call it even, with the IDF issue.
Am I better than a mechallel Shabbos? I’ll suspend judgement on that until 120. Meanwhile, I am kasher l’eidus, my wine is muttar, my shechita is acceptable, and it is assur to speak loshon hora about me (I am included in the class, or klal, if you will, of “amisecha”). A mechallel Shabbos is not.
A shomer Shabbos is bichlal amisecha regardless of the material his kippah is made from. I think it’s terrible of you to classify him together with the mechallel Shabbos. I would have assumed that you attributed that sinah to me, but since I am bitterly against such a classification, and have never expressed such a disgusting sentiment, I am forced to assume that this is your own twisted opinion.
(Okay, that last bit was rhetorical, but it really was unfair of you to put hateful words in my mouth.)
How about Pay Pal?
it is impossible to classify someone as keeping the Torah vs. not keeping the Torah in any meaningful way.
The fact that there are cases which are “grey” does not mean there there isn’t a clear difference between the general “classes”. If you want a bit more black and white, we can start with the halachic definition, e.g. shomer Shabbos vs. mechallel Shabbos (b’farhesia).
Yes, I agree that it’s immaturity, that’s why it’s the cynical side of me that believes it (and the optimistic side of me which says that even when it’s a factor, it’s not the only factor).
As far as wondering why the benefit is so large as to play such a central role, I think the feeling is that it does set the tone for their lifetime together, both regarding a Torahdik’e home (your “wrong” reason), and her commitment to supporting his learning throughout their marriage.
There’s another, probably more correct reason, although, similar to your “right” reason, I don’t know if it’s actually part of the thought process. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/working-and-learning#post-425912
My rav does not know if he is a yid or not or what his matzav is.
Your initial question was, If you don’t know if the beggar is Jewish should you give tzedaka?
Rt,
Kinah is with an Aleph (although it is possible they’re still related).
Popa, you’re putting a very positive spin on it, but I don’t think that they’re being so profound.
If I were to put a positive spin on it, I would say that it’s simply because she wants the z’chus of financially supporting his learning. My cynical side tells me that it’s so she can boast of her husband in kollel (which isn’t the worst thing someone can boast about).
There’s probably some truth to both (maybe even all three).
Did you actually write, ” between these two classes of people”. Excuse me while I vomit.
Please go to the ladies’ room to do so. It’s not much better than changing a diaper in public. 🙂
I would rather be OTD then think that Judaism is a class system.
Really? You’d really prefer to be mechallel Shabbos, eat tarfus, violate various issurim related to arayos, etc., than think that there’s a difference between someone who keeps the Torah and someone who doesn’t?
You are asking if it is easier? Or if it is statistically more likely?
Those are probably related.
Toi, that post was priceless.
How was his f-i-l able to live before Reb Elchonon married his daughter? I don’t mean this facetiously but isn’t it possible that the f-i-l was at an advanced age and just happened to die at that time?
To answer the first question, maybe so that he could support his R’ Yitzchak Elchonon in the future, and maybe because his time wasn’t yet up.
To answer your second question, of course anything’s possible, a story isn’t an iron-clad proof. The timing was pretty good though, and nobody is creating a brand new idea, that Torah is “eitz chaim hee lamachazikim bah” (a tree of life for those who support it)* from a story. Rather, the story fits right in with and illustrates this basic concept in Yiddishkeit.
*Yes, I know that’s a drash, and the simple pshat is “for those who grasp onto it”.
The person involved has no neemonus.
WHO says he needs ne’emanus? The default assumption is that the conversion was valid.
Gerus is not for amateurs
Neither is passeling a geirus b’dieved for amateurs.
Believe me, I don’t think the guy’s a tzaddik, but unless there’s a psak from a legitimate posek passeling his geirus, I think we have to assume it was valid, and unfortunately, this Yid is oiver on huge aveiros (M”Z and chillul Hashem).
Benignuman,
I tried posting a link to an article about it, to no avail. Try Googling “A New Conversion Scandal”. To summarize, Ariel Sharon set quotas for Russian immigrants to convert, in order to maintain the state’s “Jewish”Jewish identity. The Russians’ motivation for going along with it was for citizenship and army purposes. Their “kabalas ol mitzvos” was a complete formality and a sham. Their insincerity was evident from the outset, and they were completely nonobservant from the moment their “conversions” were done.
I think that’s the first time that sentence has appeared in the CR. 🙂
I still try to buy items from my local stores so that they can send their children to yeshiva and suppport local charities.
For $2-3 profit. And what should they do with the change?
AZOI.IS,
Nobody’s advocating disbanding the army. The chareidim are not needed in the army, bur we can use all the learning we can get, and they’re trying to draft yeshiva bochurim.
Ok, but isn’t that against the Sh”A?
Too, I know. I was answering in kind.
MorahRach,
Sorry for taking your question out of context. I’ve learned to address my comments to the post or poster to which/whom it’s addressed (and I remember to do that most the time). There were several long posts between yours and the one you addressed.
My point was not that IDF soldiers don’t eventually contribute financially; it was that there are contributions which are more important than financial.
I think amb meant that the oven is completely off.
Yekke2 and GAW,
Did you see the clip where Mendy Pellin complains that his wife yells at him for not folding his talis right after Shabbos?
use pliers?
How will that help the hunger issue?
Thank you. Now I know why you do (although I kind of figured…).
I had the same kasha about how preventing creases is considered a tikun (although, the isssur is actualy nireh kimisaken, which might be easier.)
His point about the “yesh mi shomer” I can understand, although I would think it does imply a machlokes. The Shach he mentioned is the Rema’s comment on the S.A., not the mechaber himself; to argue on the Machtzis Hashehel and M”B, he would need a raya from the mechaber alein. I do find it odd though, to say that the mechaber sides with the first shittah when he explicitly says “v’nirin d’vorov” o the second shittah.
He also doesn’t deal with the hachono issue (unless I missed it?).
I suppose you could say that the same way there’s no hachono issue, according to the second shittah, when the foldiing is not on the creases, there is also no hachono with today’s changed metzius. The Aruch Hashulchan doesn’t seem to do this though, since he needs to go with the Rishonim who don’t hold of it at all.
Mdd, so please explain your raya. I don’t see it, but maybe you can explain it, instead of using rhetoric.
Daas Yochid, why did the erliche Jews have to put up with the Roman avodah zorah government? It was not right, right? My point is you have to face the reality.
Ok, I got you to compare the medina to the Roman A”Z government. I guess I’m getting somewhere. 🙂
Other than that, I’m completely missing your point. When the goyim make gezeiros against us, we do what we can to get out of them, we don’t capitulate because “that’s the reality”.
Benignuman,
This is not a judgement on a particular case, it’s on an entire class of geirus. R’ Moshe certainly did not mean to automatically approve any geirus performed by an orthodox rabbi, even when there are known factors to disqualify them. He likely meant mistama.
I’m sure the beis din involved in being megayer the Kusim was not reform. 😉
Y me.
I’ll assume your misunderstanding of my comment was unintentional, so I’ll refrain from answering in kind.
I was not disparaging a soldier’s contribution to society, I was making the point that one’s contribution to society does not have to be financial.
From the diversity of opinions in this topic, it seems pretty clear the the gedolim should issue guidelines. Otherwise, people will just decide willy-nilly how long they should date before engagement and how long they should be engaged before marriage.
Or they’ll decide based on individual circumstances.
No offense meant, but I’m pretty sure that’s absolutely ridiculous.
It’s not absolutely ridiculous, but it’s more an effect than a cause.
I would imagine that those with higher expectations would date for longer to make sure those expectations are met. Those with less demanding expectations, who just want to make sure there’s some emotional compatibility and common hashkofos, probably don’t feel the need to drag it on.
Bear,
From the one article I read, it sounds like he tried therapy. Tayva is not a contradiction to kabbolas mitzvos. He may have intended to control himself and or cure himself.
Benignuman,
R’ Moshe is not even talking about a case where it is obvious even before the tevilah that the geirus is insincere; in which case he would probably not consider it a defensible position. The passul geirus that we’re talking about are obvious shame from the outset.
MorahRach, What do charedim financially contribute to the state?
What do IDF soldiers financially contribute to the state?
Yesh v’yesh. If work were an option, some would do so, some would still loaf. Just like here in chu”l.
Nu… so what does Confucious say?
without sharing their learning z’chuyot with their soldier counterparts
No, not specifically, and “sharing” is the wrong word. It is a z’chus for everyone, including the chayalim, including Yair Lapid, etc.
and that, my friend, is gezel.
Probably right about the myfriend part, dead wrong about the gezel part. Are you a Choshen Mishpat dayan to even offer a halachic opinion like that?
Baal Habooze, interesting. The Mishnah Berurah (quoting Machatzis Hashekel) says that it is better not to fold the talis at all (even not on the creases), and does not take “kovos hatalis” into consideration at all (he says not folding is “vadai odif, certainly preferable), even though it is muttar meikar hadin.