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its not a big deal that he switch yeshivos
I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Being thrown out of yeshiva (however you want to sugarcoat it) tells the child he/she is just not good enough, and pushes the child directly into the Yeter Hara’s path.
Now I don’t think a Straimel is worth it. Perhaps others feel it is Y’Hareg V’al Y’avor.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
crdle:
No.
And even if I was, there are plenty of places that would not have Kosher food near them (Harlem, I would think).
I think the main point is the school has to be vigilant and if they see that someone is bringing others down they have to try to work with him and if he refuses to improve, well then he doesn’t belong in that school should be transferred.
I can agree with that, depending on what you mean “bringing others down” (if he is a Madiach, of course he should be removed. If he is telling them they don’t have to wear a straimel, not so fast).
If parents found out that hypothetically the school wont do anything about kids who are negatively influencing their children and their childrens friends they will take their kids out of that school.
And Chazer is cheaper (I know that is harsh; it depends on what you are getting at).
Dr. Hall:
The actual Shittos of what the Rav actually held are so confused, I hesitate to tie down his shitta, since I did not hear it from him directly.
Chassidim – anti
Litvish – pro
Now I’m not talking about Gemorah, more re: Perushim
And that is an opinion, not a fact.
Nothing Kosher anywhere near me (as would be expected).
How come they serve soup at weddings?
Because the people paying for the wedding want the soup served.
Where is that “like” button? (Is that the correct saying?)
May moshiach come soon.
Amain.
SJS:
Possibly agreed, depending on the exact situation.
WIY: Are you making the “slippery slope” argument?
Then even worse than dealing drugs,
tzeitel’s been arrested
and
Motel studies dancing
And Tevye’s acting srange
Shprintze’s got the measles
and Bielke’s got the mumps!
it can lead to “men and women dancing”! 🙂
And not all Gedolim agreed with the BY movement; the Hungarians objected to the teaching of Rashi to girls (and certinaly Rambans and Maharals) on the claim that that constitutes Torah shebal peh. Others said that since Rashi merely explains the pshuto shel mikrah – the simple meaning of the text, it would be considered Torah shebiksav in this sense.
(IMHO) The Chevra is correct. “Women learning” ended up being a Machlokes between most Chassidim and Rabbi Miller in one corner, and Rav Kotler and most Litvish Rabbonim in the other. (that is an opinion, not fact)
It seemingly stems from the same Machlokes if women should work and men learn, or men work and women stay at home.
SJS: You are correct about the Chiluk between learning and teaching, see the Rambam I quoted.
WIY:
Many yeshivos have someone like that (or worse, if rumors are to be believed; I am at least Choshesh for them ); you are not unique.
Why did you not go to the Hanhala?
P.S. to quote myself:
So the child is not “bad” (i.e. distributing drugs or porn)
If the Child is “distributing drugs or porn”, he is a Rodef.
That wasn’t the point of contention.
Unless you assume everyone who doesn’t learn the full three sedarim is distributing porn?
myfriend:
Are you a mod?
????? ????? ???? ??? ?
?? [??] ???? ????? ????, ?? ?? ???; ??? ???? ???? ????, ???? ??? ???????, ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????, ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ????. ??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ???, ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ????: ???? ???? ?????, ??? ???? ?????? ??????, ??? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ????, ??? ?????? ????.
?? ???? ?????, ?? ????? ?? ??? ????, ????? ????? ?????. ??? ????? ??????, ????? ???? ??. ??? ???? ?????, ?? ???? ???? ???????; ??? ?????, ???? ?????? ?????.
Please define social network.
I would postulate that the Coffee Room is a social network.
Invite all the teens over for games & food.
Take them all to pizza, bowling, etc.
You (or your friend) might actually understand why your friend’s child is missing in their life that they feel the need to hang out.
Korech:
(real) Matza, Morror and Lamb.
AKA Shwarma
Could someone please point out where this supposed Rashi is?
I don’t think it actually exists.
I would love to be proved wrong.
EDITED
If you have a kid in such a school who is introducing kids to movies and non Jewish music that can also be grounds to throw him out. Now like I said it depends on the school and the homes that the kids come from and what type of Hashkafos the school is geared towards.
So you are allowed to be a Rotzach to keep a chumra/point of Hashkafa.
I know you don’t see it that way, but the scores of OTD children who have been told they are not “good enough” tell another story.
“My Father was a Baker, and he taught me fresh bread is better than stale bread.”
Also the Kotzker Re: Yichus
I think I have posted this before.
Perhaps. But it’s definitely NOT lishmah at this point… and I can’t guarantee that it ever will be.
Who ever said you need to guarantee anything? Chazal guarantee it.
No, just a realist.
That is what Moshe R. said, too.
?????????, ???? ????-???; ??????-???, ??????-?????????
(Exodus (AKA Shemos) 4:13)
🙂
I hope that what he meant that Hashem didn’t design them for it , and gave them talents that men don’t have for other areas.
I can live with that. It is like comparative advantage, even when one party is better at both things, it makes sense for one party to do one and the other the other.
If so, I retract the dummy comment. But since I haven’t been able to find the Rashi (help?), so I don’t know what he really said.
On the contrary… because I’m not doing it lishmah. I’m not staying away from milk because I’m concerned about terifos… I’m doing it for my own selfish, petty reasons.
Didn’t Dr. Hall say on the other thread Mitoch Shelo Lishma Ba’ah Lidai Lishma?
I know, you are just an Anav. Why don’t you ask me for a pound of nails while you are at it? 🙂
WIY:
So what type of child are you suggesting to throw out?
a) The one who sells drugs
b) the one who gets Gimmels (or even fails), and sits out seder for 30 minutes (of a three hour seder) drinking coffee
c) the one that was found with a cell phone (Kosher) in class
d) The one found on the street talking to his sister (CV)
You talk about “bad” students, and then leave it undefined. Please define a “bad” student.
This law is based on the Mishnah (Sotah 20a). Rashi says that women’s minds are not meant for serious Torah learning.
By so right (sic) on page 2.
Moq:
Sounds like a dummy 🙂 Now if you said a woman’s role in Yiddishkeit is not meant for serious torah learning, I would agree. It is the “minds” part that bothers me.
BTW, it is all the fault of Kollel. Women also want to sit and learn and have their wives or FIL support. It is, as the Mishna says one should work doing, an “Umnus Kalla U’Nekiya”. 🙂
I believe a bad kid needs to be sent out but not to the streets, he should be transferred to a more accomodating yeshiva. These days there are many yeshivos that have opened for kids who need a “lighter” schedule and free-er atmosphere.
So the child is not “bad” (i.e. distributing drugs or porn), they are just unable to keep up with the pace/grades that the current yeshiva demands?
LMA:
A Gavra.
You agree with my outlook 100% (why women don’t have to learn (obvious, it is halacha), and the Feminist agenda vs. Leshma concept).
I just don’t think women are dummies, and Metzius has proved that to be the case (which is why I strongly disagree with Popa, not you).
Anyone else think yushka’s name is a little strange for YWN?
Real name = Josh 🙂
Point 2: To leave the bad kid in the school and he brings down other boys is a lot worse.
Point 1:My opinion is, a typical school is not made for kids in all situations. Its made for the type of kid the school is geared towards be it Yeshivish, Chasidish with their own twist on what that means. We all know that every school is different.
However all regular schools are only prepared for a kid that is functioning normally.
If a kid is “bumming out” and is clearly heading in a bad direction, I feel any responsible school must take action. Is a school supposed to sacrifice the other kids so that this kid shouldnt be kicked out?
OK, which one is it?
And even if it is, you have a kasha on that; it doesn’t change halacha.
Which is why the Brisker Mehalech avoids at all costs a Machloykes in Metzius.
In fact, the question is asked (for example, by Yesh B’Gidin Nosen Ta’am) why not go out and check the Metzius? And the answer is not “That’s the halacha, you have a Kasha” 🙂
popa_bar_abba
Member
“Rashi says that women’s minds are not meant for serious Torah learning. “
And B”H he has been proven wrong.
One who argues with a Rishon is not an apikores. However, most people think it is a foolish thing to do.
Why did you say this?
And Rashi’s Daughter who wrote “Rashi” on Nedarim is?
I’m immune to social pressure and live in Teaneck
I know. It just seems to be the poster child of societal pressure.
SJS:
Of course not. But that gets back to our “agreement” that paying full tuition is one of the most critical things a parent can do for his/her child’s chinuch.
And as far as social pressure….B”H I don’t live in Teaneck (200KChump?)! 🙂
Why we must support Torah financially to the best of our ability?
Don’t get it.
It should be:
Why we must LEARN Torah financially to the best of our ability
The extra few dollars cost of spoiled milk is well worth the tremendous spiritual benefits to ones neshama of exclusively using Cholov Yisroel.
Since I don’t drink milk at all, I guess the lack of schar that I get for buying milk which spoils early will forever elude me. Another indication that I am going to hell in the proverbial handbasket. 🙁
The Wolf
Exactly the opposite! You will get infinite Schar for being Machmir like Rav Schacter who holds all cows are Safek Traifos currently and does not drink milk.
G@W
Learn Toiyra!
Good points everyone. To add, I have a Kabbala that one of the “causes” of the OTD problem is parents not paying full tuition (for whatever that means, and however He makes cheshbonos up there).
SJS:
So send to a school where the Rabbaim and teachers do care about the children. They do exist, and if you have to pay more, aren’t your children worth it?
To th OP (WIY): To remove a child from a school is equal to telling them they no longer have to keep Torah U’Mitzvos, and it is on the Cheshbon of the one who removes the child. It may be required (just like you must kill a Rodef), but does anyone want that on their cheshbon?
Or have your gender as part of your name, such as myself, BPTatty and Ben Torah
Early & Often.
I assume you mean the new ballots in NYC?
Tam:
It is what makes Xtianity Avoda Zara.
I’m going to agree with you that it should not be discussed here (after I deleted a few paragraphs regarding it).
As Dr. Hall said, “I personally think Christian theology is inexplicable”.
But I would rather make fun of it.
Take a look at all the Slamim that are in pawn shops. Or how even they decided in ’64 to turn over the whole religion 🙂
They don’t really believe in it themselves.
Dr. Hall:
Most of those who “Daven to angels” will tell you they only want the angel to carry the prayer to the Throne (if they are not simpletons).
Tam:
Never said it wasn’t Avoda Zara.
Just arguing as for the reason why.
If you don’t care to discuss, that is OK with me.
is one God but he takes on three literal forms
Explain please.
Perhaps the athanasian creed?
Yup. 🙂
It’s not a Zohar issue, it’s an understanding of their concept of the trinity.
How do you think the Pope, for example, would explain it?
Tam:
When you do the research needed in comparative religion (which for you would probably be Assur), get back to me.
??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????
(Nedarim 66b)
And I did not say anything that you claim I did, but for others who may be reading this, if anything, they stole the concept from us. And it (the concept) does not contradict Yichud Hashaim.
Ben Torah:
It is my wife.
Ishto K’Gufo.
But she told me she was not going to post here. If she would, I think I would stop posting.
First of all their trinity,
Guess you don’t sing Askinu Sudasa by Shalus Shudis (Seudat Shelishit)?
second of all their icons and statues of saints they literally bow down to!
But they do not ascribe divinity to it/them. That is Halacha Pesuka.
The reason why it would be Avoda Zara is because they worship a human.
Support for BT (11:4):
? [?] ?? ????, ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???????–???? ???? ??????, ????? ?????; ???????? ???? ???, ???? ??????? ???? ???. ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???, ???? ??? ??????????–???? ???? ??????, ????? ?????; ??? ???? ?? ???????. ??? ????????–????? ????? ??? ??, ???? ???? ???? ?????.
If there is even Raglayim L’Davar, precautions must be taken.
See: ??????????? ????-?????????
citizen soldier
Interesting twist in the thread, talking about ages.
Ittisa came home one day and told me “you’re Gavra, aren’t you?”
She told me she looked in the CR for the first time & I post in the manner that I speak & agree with my shittos.
I guess it is obvious.