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GAW -“Maybe before now. Now, the phone rings for the guys because they have a pulse and a Yarmulka, and not for girls, who many just don’t get called.”
Consider yourself lucky -that people want to go out with you.
Sorry to say, here in Lakewood nothing has changed!
Yenta – Since it seems you were found out by friends – if it was me – I would be proud of what I posted and not the least bit embarrassed. I hold by everything I write and I know that I’m not perfect and sometimes I make mistakes, but so does e/o! But I try my best.
cherrybim -“You mean whether they will steal, rob or prostitute themselves; any other options for a drug addict?”
They can also go to the next unsuspecting guy and collect from him. You should not give this person money -it’s not your responsibility how the drug addicts acquires his drugs -only if you help him.
“So what would you say to the mother who collects money for her daughter’s addiction so that the daughter won’t have to sell herself?”
As far as giving the mother money (knowing that she is supporting a druggie) -no you should not.
“The Rambam says that if a fellow is used to the finer things in life and becomes poor, you are m’chuyiv to support him in the standard of his lifestyle; fine wines, steaks, Brooks Brothers and all.”
What exactly is the relevance of this Halacha to this case? He is just defining an Oni whom is allowed to collect Tzedaka.
BTGuy -Like I said before -you can’t bring a Raya from a Musser Shmuz. I’m sure R’ Shmuel was saying it during a Shmuz. If you told me you called him personally and he told you there is such a Chiyuv -then I would call him up and discuss the Halacha with him.
When s/o gives a Shmuz they aren’t Paskening L’halacha -they are saying things to emphasize the importance of the subject, like in this case regarding Kiruv!
MP – You’re welcome.
Agreer -Sorry to Disagree.
I feel sorry for you, but you’re the exception, not the rule.
“Older girls are gems and older guys, for the most part, are not even halfway worthy of them.”
While age in girls doesn’t affect them so much mentally -did you ever consider why the guy is older and not married? I’ll tell you why -because s/o who isn’t the biggest Macher or come from a rich or Yichus family -no one Redds them anything. So they get older. Most are still very worthy human beings. I know because I was an older guy and I settled and am now divorced. I’ll tell you something else that a good percent of the older guys have good Middos, while I see many of the guys who are prime market material (as explained above) are lacking in Middos. I understand were your perception comes from, but it is wrong!
“I was desperate, and I settled big time. I was doing something meaningful with my life; he was directionless. Yet he had pants, and that was enough for my parents.”
I will not take your opinion about your parents at face value, there are always two sides to any story -I’d like to hear theirs’.
Also, why blame your parents? Any girl post high school looking to get married, esp. at 26, should know how to figure out what the guy is all about during the dates. This is the reason we even have a dating process.
RisingSun613 -Just realize that one or both are a 3 (or 2 -not sure) year program, so to get out the same time as every girl from seminary -you have to go for 12th grade.
cshapiro -“she asked him for money for my shower, i think that is way out of line.”
This would be way out of line if an older woman did this, let alone a young person. The whole purpose of the shower is for people on the Kallah’s side to give things to her.
I would drop her as a friend. With friends like these -who needs enemies?
LSH -“I think parents are the key. And children should trust their parents.”
Usually you’re right, but some parents aren’t trustworthy.
Yenta -“I know because it happened to me not once but two times in about the span of a couple of days because of a comment i made.”
What exactly happenned? Obviously don’t give any private info, but share with us what occurred -so we can protect ourselves.
cherrybim -“Most addicts will do just about anything to feed their addiction. Many a “frum” girl will sell her body and “frum” men will steal to get their needed fixes. So while your money will indeed be used to temporarily satisfy the addiction, you are also preventing additional aveiros.”
While you make interesting points -your post is full of fallicies.
You don’t know for sure how they will get the money if not by your donation, so that isn’t your Cheshbon. But if there is a good chance that your donation will be used to buy drugs, then you can’t give them any money.
“Other issues: What about the tobacco addict; $25 of your tzedaka gets burned up every day, or about $8000 a year, to the poor guy who smokes.
And what about the fat collector? If the poor schnorrer is obese and can’t control his food cravings, your tzedaka money is going to the pizza store or restaurant across the street.
And what if the poor guy loves fine wine and spirits?”
While you make good points about other addictions, there are inherent differences; although if the guy is an obvious Wino, I would put him in the same category as the drug addict.
While there might be health dangers with regards to smoking & overeating, they are acceptable in our society. So this can’t be taken into account if the person is indeed in need of Tzedaka!
MP -When it comes to Avodas Hashem e/o is required to make Histadlus and not wait for Hashem directly. So Noach did right. That was Yosef’s mistake -he thought he was doing his Histadlus, but actually he went too far. Going as far as Yosef went, acc. to the Madreiga he was on, was a lack of Emunah & Bitachon.
Sam2 -“Health: Bring a source please that Kol Yisrael Areivim does not apply to someone who isn’t frum.”
Before I answer, I’d like to ask you this, because you’re a smart Bocher, why should it apply? Did you ever look up the Dinim?
“And even then please bring a source that it wouldn’t apply to a Tinok Shenishba as opposed to someone who left on his own.”
Please don’t misunderstand me. I didn’t mean to say that it applies to anyone who becomes OTD, but that in most cases people who go OTD are because they were pushed off. In these cases, there is a bigger Inyan to Mekarev these people than others because of the wrong committed by another supposedly Frum person.
We are responsible for this wrong because if the guy who did this is a Rasha -then we should have taken action against him because of Veartah Haroh Mekirbecha. And if the guy was B’shogeg, we are still responsible because an Aveira B’shogeg is still an Aveira and Kol Yisroel Areivim etc.
WolfishMusings -“Is a snorer who shares a room with a non-snorer guilty of gezel sheina?”
Of course, he is!
Englishman -“No, since the non-snorer could sleep elsewhere and yet chooses to sleep with the snorer.”
OneOfMany -“Snorer is an ????.”
Since this isn’t a Halacha forum anyone can state their
opinion(s), but you two happen to be wrong.
Englishman -We hold “Al Hamazik Leharchev Es Atzmo!”
OneOfMany – We hold “Odom Mooed Lolam Bein etc.”
HaLeiVi -“The Ohr Hachayim Hakadosh writes on the Pasuk of Im Ra’isa Shor Re’echa, that if you see a Yid straying you should bring him back to his owner.”
It’s a Mitzvah, not a Chiyuv!
“Kol Yisroel Areivim, so it follows that you should do what you can to bring them back to the fold.”
You must not have read my posts on the closed thread. I wrote there that you Do Not say “Kol Yisroel Areivim Zeh Lohzeh” by people who aren’t Frum!
mdd -“Health, Rav Kamenetzky mentioned our being judged for not doing kiruv. He is a responsible Rosh Yeshiva, and you do not say such things unless there is a chiyuv.”
Read my post to BT guy. You can’t bring a Rayah from a Musser Shmuz. It’s a Mitzvah and e/o will be judged on why we didn’t do every Mitzvah possible, but it doesn’t make it into a Chiyuv. Stop reading into his words, just because you want to be RIGHT!
“I am not going to respond anymore to your lack of Ahavas Yisroel-driven opinion.”
I really hope you don’t because you keep repeating the same thing over & over again. And it’s not me who is lacking in Bein Odom L’chaveiro – you are a classic example of “Kol Hapoisel B’mumo Poisel”!
Englishman – Oh really – only that?
What about s/o who keeps Shabbos and eats Treif?
2scents -“CPAP or surgery might be necessary so that you get adequate oxygen at night.”
That’s a last resort for sleep apnea. For snoring they have a spray that immobilizes the area and they also have simple devices that might work. If there is a possibility of sleep apnea, the person should always go for a sleep study.
BTGuy -“So is Rabbi Kamenetzky who was taped saying every single Jew is responsible to make an effort to be mekarev someone.”
When s/o is giving a Shmuz or Mussar when they say something like responsible -they mean a big Inyan or Mitzvah, they don’t mean to Pasken acc. to Halacha!
“Health, according to others, if you think it is going to work, you must.”
If the “others” are Rabbonim – Name them!
You kept asking me to name a Rav and I did. I said already it’s a Mitzvah, but you keep saying you have to. You won’t admit that you don’t have a leg to stand on.
It’s very nice to Mekarev s/o, but there is no Chiyuv. I heard this from Rabbi Tatz (on the radio from a taped Shiur). This is obvious from the Torah but I feel it needs repeating because some posters have misconceptions about this.
I read there is another outbreak of Shigs (Shigella) in BP and Willy.
shmoel -“And gender segregation of restrooms. The gender segregation is still legal.”
Aw please, because our society hasn’t gone all the way down to the bottom by having only one bathrom for e/o, so this means gender segregation is legal? Where did you come up with this from?
“There is good legitimate reason to segregate by gender.”
What good possible reason could there be except for you to keep your religion? While this is nice -our laws don’t allow public transportation (under a public entity) or under their franchise to take religion into account. Something called Separation of Church and State. It could only be considered religious discrimination if they told you what to do in your own private bus line.
mdd -“So if a guy is generally speaking frum, but is dishonest in business or looks at funny pictures, he should be driven off the derech in gantzen??”
“Plus, if an FFB goes past a certain point, even if he is not doing it out of what you think is rishus, but because of problems(which al pi Haloch is still rishus), he is no longer beklal amisecha.”
Look you are making me repeat myself a thousand times. I don’t have the time for you and getting you out of the mixed up world you are in.
If a Frum person does Aveiros because of Rishous over and over again -then yes he takes himself out of the Parsha of Amishecha.
Most Frum people who do Aveiros aren’t like this, in spite of what you claim!
A good Sefer to start with is the Chofetz Chaim -he talks about this.
mdd -“If a fellow is a tinok snenisba he’is beklal amisecha. From everything I learnt or heard Gedolim and Rabbonim speak and pasken — they hold like me.”
That’s what you say. They aren’t Bechlal Amisecha, no matter how much you scream that they are.
mdd -“Health, again: there is no difference in your obligation to help a stumbling Yid from a frum family and a stymbling Yid from a frei family.”
Your wrong – there is a difference. See my post to shein.
“If anything, the stumbling FFB is worse. He should have known better.”
He is only worse like I said in my post to you before -if he is doing it because of Rishous. Most people going OTD aren’t doing it because of Rishous.
“Like I said:” FIND ME A ROV WHO WOULD AGREE WITH YOU!”
Find me a Rov who would disagree with me!!!
shein -“Areivim Zeh L’Zeh is not a chiyuv?”
Sorry to inform you -this is only for s/o who is Bechlal Amisecha!
Kilo -“clout than the non-English speaking and often non-citizen population of Southeast Queens.”
Clout or no clout -they can’t break the franchise agreement without any consequences. As much as you think this is about race, most people including many Frum Yidden don’t. They realize that this country has endorsed the concept of equal rights and they won’t let people break that even if they claim they are only doing it for religious reasons!
The bus company had the right to say -we aren’t going to comply and we will fight it in Court or start a totally private line.
But they didn’t say that, did they?
yichusdik -“Health, I think it is incumbent upon everyone to be mekarev rechokim. I think kiruv is the truest expression of veohavto loreacho komocho”
I’m sorry you are mistaken, there isn’t any chiyuv, mitzvah yea -no Chiyuv!
Syag Lchochma -“I guess that just proves how wrong it is to refrain from posting, it can actually bring unnecessary pain to other posters.”
In regards to other posters, it can bring unecessary pain when you do post.
akuperma -“While it is illegal, medical schools tend to discriminate against older students. The fact that it take a long time (probably two years for basic undergraduate science courses assuming you have atg least some sort of undergraduate degreee, then four years of medical school, then residency) makes them reluctant for a new student who won’t start professional life until retirement age.”
I’m in the medical field and went back to school a few years ago -started older than her.
I’d like to know where you got your fact of “medical schools tend to discriminate against older students”?
Perhaps you are confusing general discrimination with age?
Medical schools in general like to discriminate against e/o.
After you finish your 4 degree and with the type of sciences that they like and with the Mcat (preferably) and then you submit everything -they tend to delay most students around a year before acceptance. The top notch schools are very picky. But being a good practioner has to do with you, not where you went to school.
I don’t -it makes me sleepy. On a day off -like Shabbos or Yom tov or when sick in bed ch’vs, it’s great because it helps you sleep.
Kilo bear -“Had someone done the same to expose an African-American practice, everyone would be crying “racism.””
As far as I know, they don’t have official racial policies. If they did -maybe s/o would bring it up to the gov. Don’t lower yourself to playing the race card because of your anger. I doubt there is an iota of truth in your statement.
“The drivers just won’t be able to enforce anything.”
Again, if there is a verbal confrontation -there is most certainly a responsibility on the driver to act. If he can’t or he won’t -he has to call the police for help. If he fails in this responsibilty, there most certainly will be negative repercussions against him and the bus company!
mdd -“What you are saying is so totaly off!”
Actually your comments are only based on emotions, not on any logic. You have some Negious, but I don’t know what that is, but I can guess.
“Without conditions, Health. Even if there is a frei Yid, whom you can not make totaly frum, but you can convince him to fast on Yom Kippur and not eat chomets on Pesach, you have to do it.”
No, without conditions on forcing them to keep all or none, but with the condition on the ones that they keep have to be done with Ehrlichkeit. (If you know what that word means.)
“Mitsvos are a chiyuv for anybody born a Jew. Find me a Rov who would agree with your opinion.”
True, every Jew has to keep Mitzvos, but it’s not incumbent on e/o to be Mekarev Rechokim. There are orgs. that do this and you don’t have to belong to these orgs.
“And what do you suggest we do with FFBs who are not ehrlach and create problems? Make them OTD in gantzn and expel them from the community?”
Now this statement makes absolutely no sense. If these people aren’t Ehrlich because of Rishous – then they should be dealt with. If it’s because of something else, like what happens to these “at risk youth”, then they should be helped in any way possible.
yichusdik -“Health, I am in a very similar situation to you, though my ex is still maintaining some level of observance, and facilitates the kids doing so. But I have come to a completely different conclusion. It seems to me the factionalism and even elitism which you or I might understand, if not justify, contrasted with the open hearts and homes of those involved in kiruv, and the longer she lived in the frum world, the less she saw of the open hearts and the more of the less savory elements of frum society. It didn’t have a good hashpo’oh on her, and real problems can’t be conveniently explained away.”
This part I agree with. The part you wrote after this -I don’t fully understand.
mdd -“It is absolutely our obligation to have as many Jews keeping as many mitsvos as possible.”
On condition that they are Ehrlich and don’t create more problems for the rest of the Klal!
Shein – You can scream from today till tomorrow -that the driver will look the other way when the men start throwing their weight around. I can guarantee you- they won’t. If the men won’t listen to the driver, he will call the police. The reason is because he will be fired if he doesn’t. The company obviously needs this route as a franchise in order to exist; if they didn’t they would have told the Gov. – now we will become private -so we can segregate.
Did you ever travel on a bus when there is an unruly passenger?
The bus driver will get involved and if need be he will call the cops. This bus company doesn’t want to get in more trouble than they already have, let alone have to defend against lawsuits.
But a computer and Bein Hazemanim are a lot of fun because any Bocher can come here and spout any Boich Sevarahs they want!
shein -“I think its pretty obvious bpt was referring to getting on a train without a turnstile or payment.”
Since you are now his spokesman -since when do they have free train service? So no – you can’t get on a train on Shabbos acc. to Halacha!
80 -No prob. One thing you can say is that a poster started a topic recently saying how boring the CR is, at least I keep this place hopping!
mdd -“be’etzem, they are right. It just the dor is not fit for it. They should not be looked down on.”
So since the kids can’t handle it -they aren’t right.
“According to you, there should not be any kiruv.”
I didn’t say that, but I believe the movement should definitely be more selective than it is now!
shein -“The passengers will keep enforcing the rule even if the bus company and driver do not. It would be dangerous for the bus driver to get involved while driving a bus on the road. And the bus company isn’t responsible for the passengers enforcement.”
They are most certainly responsible. If a Goyta gets on -they can ask her politely. She can refuse. If they try to push the issue -the driver must come to her defense. If he feels he can’t handle it or doesn’t want to -he must call the police. As matter of fact, after this has made the news, a lot of Goyim will B’dafka use this line to sit where ever they want. If now the bus company ignores the fight – they will be in even bigger trouble than before, because the Gov. has warned them.
BPT -“From a “halacha” standpoint, you can board a train on Shabbos”
I don’t see how this could possibly be Mutter -you have to use a Metro card to get in – unless you jump the turnstile -which wouldn’t be Mutter either.
“So with that said, what do the Rabbonim / Rebbes / Roshei Yeshiva you hold dear think of the antics of DSK and Amanda?”
I never condoned their behavior -just said you can’t prosecute s/o on things like murder, even when their behavior is not on the up & up. They can only be found guilty on crimes they have committed, not alleged to have committed. I’m sorry that you can’t see my point of view.
QB -“Would I write all those scenes you’d find in a romance novel? Of course not.”
Instead of blowing up at me when I just posted a warning -why didn’t you just post what you did now?
I was specifically clear from the git go what I thought non-Kosher means. If you have a different definition -you should have said so. All those posts that I wrote were based on that definition. So if it didn’t apply to you -why didn’t you simply say so? There is nothing to apologize for because my definition is the one I think most people would use.
MP -Sorry to say I didn’t start out calling her not Frum -I just posted a warning. It was only after I was attacked -did I defend myself that way. You obviously can’t see it this way.
Mod 80 – How about putting up my last post and editing the points you don’t like because I made some important Halacha points? I thought the job of the Mods was to edit, not to erase the whole thing -when parts aren’t up to their discretion?
MiddlePath – I think if you see the Chofetz Chaim inside, this would clear up all your questions. Please look it up.
mdd -“Health, here you go with your outrageous statements again. We once gave you over the head for this.”
Oh and it’s not outrageous to say “became a BT because he/she thought it is a lot of fun to be frum”? Yup, most BT’s think Frumkeit is a lot of fun!
“And what about the kids? They were brought up frum!It might be that their sicere BT parents sometimes pressure them more then today’s children could accept.”
Exactly, they didn’t have themselves the proper Chinuch, so they don’t know how to raise children. Yes, pressuring kids too much can push them off the deep end!
Pashuteh Yid -“I loved the Robinson brothers, Frank and Brook.”
It’s Brooks. And they aren’t brothers – you know that but that’s your humor. I cracked a good joke on this but it didn’t make it through the Mod police. I just don’t want anybody taking you seriously.
This topic has been discussed and rehashed time and again.
shein – Wrong! I disagree with you that it applies here. Go ask a Rov, esp. since you can be Mevazeh his Frum family. Do you know what Chazal say on s/o who embarrasses others? Or do you only learn Chofetz Chaim (but he probably mentions the Chazals on this also)?
I originally posted against talking about him after the Old Man’s post. This Old Man has claimed and most believe him that he is an old time Poisek in EY. Don’t you think he knows this Chofetz Chaim? What leg do you have to stand on? A few anon. posters/mods that agree with you? You’re playing with fire!
B’ichvasah D’meschicha Chutzpah Yasgee!