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It might have been the cause of the later happenings. The things that happen in one’s childhood can have lasting effects.
In any case, I’m sorry to hear that, and I hope your life changes for the better very soon!
Ubiquitin – he might not consider the opinions of anonymous posters in the CR to be valid answers to his question. Which is why I suggested he look into the matter himself.
In any case, the main issue is what I wrote above: “It doesn’t hurt to be polite”. This is especially true when you are disagreeing with someone. You should always try to do it in a nice way. If you can make a point in a nice way or in a mean way, why not do it in a nice way?
Don’t you think the CR would be a much nicer place if people tried harder to be polite to each other?
It’s not a matter of opinion. The Chafetz Chaim says it’s an obligation, not just permissible.
He writes in Klal 6, Halacha 11: דמה שאמרו דצריך לחוש ללישנא בישא, הינו רק לענין לשמור את עצמו מהנידון, אבל חם-ושלום לעשות לו שום מעשה, או לגרום לו שום היזק או ביוש עבור זה, גדול או קטן
He writes דצריך. That means that it is an obligation, not just permissible. Also in the B’eer Mayim Chaim both in Halacha יא and Halacha י, he brings the example of Gedaliah and writes that he should have been choshesh for the LH.
Someone explained to me that it’s based on the fact that they hold that tefila without kavana is not considered tefila at all. The reason they daven late is so they have more time to prepare and have kavana when they daven since otherwise it’s not considered davening.
“the professions you mentioned are important UT are not in the same category. They don’t require specialized, hard to find skills.”
That is not true at all. Teaching is one of the hardest jobs around and requires many, many varied skills. There may be poor teachers, but most really bad teachers don’t last very long. It is very hard to discipline and have classroom maintenance, and a teacher who can’t do it will not last.
In the Frum world, there is often a lot of competition for teaching jobs, so you have to be good.
And there are certainly many very talented teachers around, and the fact that there are bad teachers doesn’t take away from that. And all teachers work very hard!In any case, how skilled you have to be has nothing to do with this discussion. My point was that they work hard and contribute a lot to society.
“Making a movie is is actually hard work.”
Playing games can also be hard work, but it’s not referred to as work. I was using the term “work” to refer to the contribution to society.
“whether or not they benefit society is the eye of the beholder.”
From a Torah perspective, there is such a thing as “absolute truth”, and the fact that there may be different opinions on something does not necessarily mean they are all correct.
In any case, even if you want to say that “whether or not they benefit society is in the eyes of the beholder”, then you can certainly say that those who are receiving benefits because their jobs don’t pay enough certainly have the right to say that they are working hard to benefit society and they have a right to take the benefits they are entitled to, and should not be made to feel guilty because their jobs happen not to pay enough. And no one has a right to speak badly of them.
Meno –
I was speaking of Frum Jews. I suppose I should have clarified, but I thought that’s what this thread was about.
Most people I know, and especially the ones who receive benefits are very busy and productively occupied, much more so than most!!
I think I used to know a Rav who was called Rav Benny. He was Israeli actually, and a RAM or something in Merkaz HaRav.
Rebshidduch – that’s great! 🙂 It’s probably one of the biggest Mitzvos a person can do!
And it’s actually very easy.
“You are raising a good point”
“He isnt. Multiple people explained why it doesnt work that way.”
The fact that there are answers doesn’t mean it’s not a good question.
And it doesn’t hurt to be polite.
Rebshidduch, that is what you wrote on the other thread
Meno – +1
Yekke – I don’t think what you are saying is true at all. He is not allowed to be mekabel it, but he is OBLIGATED to protect himself despite his not being mekabel.
One proof of this is that the only reason why l”h is permitted in this case is so that he can remove himself from the danger.
Another proof is the fact that Gedalyah ben Achikam is criticized for not taking precautions to save himself.
I still don’t think that makes “onaas devarim” mutar.
He is not hurting anyone, and you don’t have to read his threads if you don’t want to.
Also, there may be posters who do like his posts.
There is a poster whose posts annoy me, but I haven’t said anything because I don’t think I have a right to, as long as there is no “onaas devarim” or “loshon hora”.
Yekke – I think it’s actually been working. That was my point.
And I like your #2.
Of course, the trick is to not let “developing a thicker skin” affect your sensitivity to others. I used to worry about that. But now I think that once you are already sensitive to others, it doesn’t go away just because you develop a thicker skin for yourself.
You still haven’t answered the question.
Yekke – true, but I hadn’t understood her question the way you apparently did. I thought that she was talking about a case in which the guy was willing to follow her minhagim, and she wanted to know if that’s okay. It sounds like she is talking about a guy who is not so religious and presumably not so knowledgeable and is happy to follow his wife.
It sounds like you thought she was asking if he HAS to follow her minhagim.
Which did you mean, LB?
I also just realized that she may have meant something different by “minhagim” than what I thought. She may have been referring to Ashkenazi/Sephardi, in which case, it would not be as simple for him to take on her minhagim.
I thought she was referring to areas in which there are different minhagim/opinions within the same “group”, and a lot of people go by what they learned and not necessarily by their parents anyhow. But I just realized I may have been wrong about what she meant.
I’m also not sure if she is talking about someone who has no minhagim or just hasn’t started keeping them yet.
I just looked it up:
The sources for the above halachos is Chafetz Chaim, Hilchos Loshon Hora, Klal 6, Halachos 10 & 11. Also see the B’eer Mayim Chaim there, footnote #30, especially the second to last and third to last paragraphs.
The Chofetz Chaim there speaks very shtarkly about how if your life or someone else’s life is in danger or someone may be harmed, you are only allowed to be “choshesh”. But you are not allowed to believe it. Not only that , but you are not even allowed to consider it a “safeik”! All you are allowed to do is to protect yourself.
He also says that it is forbidden to relate to the person ANY differently, even in your heart!
In the Be’er Mayim Chaim, the Chofetz Chaim writes that even though you are allowed to give over the information when there is a possibility of someone being harmed, this is only in a case where you know that the listeners will not treat the subject any differently.
He writes there that if they will accept his words as truth and will embarrass them because of it, he is NOT allowed to tell them the l”h! This is despite the fact that someone is in danger of היזק from the subject!
Typo correction on above post:
This sentence:
“So your statement that if you are mekabel, you have no reason to believe yourself in any danger is not true!”
It should really say, “So your statement that if you are not mekabel, you have no reason to believe yourself in any danger is not true!
“And I deliberately asked about being obligated, not permitted.”
So I should have used the term “obligated” then. Thanks for the correction.
Lilmod: “The only reason you are making the assumption that in that case, it would be mutar is because it’s to save your life, so you know that it must be permitted.
Yekke: “If you are not mekabel, you have no reason to believe yourself in any danger. (Probably doesn’t make a difference, not sure)”
You are never allowed to be mekabel L”H. You are obligated to be “choshesh” (in some cases) and protect yourself. This is despite the fact that you are not allowed to be mekabel! So your statement that if you are mekabel, you have no reason to believe yourself in any danger is not true!
(although I’m not 100% sure about the way you phrased it – maybe you can’t believe yourself in any danger, but you still have to protect yourself. I don’t know, but that’s irrelevant – the issue is whether or not you can take steps to protect yourself, and you certainly are allowed to (in certain cases) even though you are not allowed to be mekabel.)
Bottom line – you are never allowed to be mekabel l”h. It is possible that if your life is in danger, you can take steps to protect yourself but without being mekabel it. But you are not allowed to treat the subject of L”H any differently, according to halacha. All you are allowed to do is to take steps to protect yourself!
We don’t even know for sure that is true (if the l”h was given over in a non-halachic fashion). You are assuming it is, and you may be right. But that has nothing to do with your case.
In your case:
1. no one’s life was in danger.
2. You were mekabel the l”h (which you are never allowed to do)
3. You treated the subject differently which you are never allowed to do.Yekke, if the halacha is that you are not believe it, then you are not allowed to believe it, period. In a discussion with a friend once, I made the comment that I don’t see how it’s possible to not believe l”h. She pointed out that if it’s the halacha, it must be possible even it’s very hard.
In any case, even if you feel that it was impossible not to believe it (and I understand why you feel that way – I would also), at least on an intellectual level, you can’t accept it as fact and you can’t then interpret events accordingly.
I hadn’t realized that the askan acknowledged the truth of the statments, but didn’t that happen after you spoke to him? In that case, it would be irrelevant.
Joseph, which jokes did I not get?
I remember there was a discussion about immaculate conception once. As far as I recall, I didn’t not get anything; it was just that the term is apparently used incorrectly.
And how often are jokes referencing christian concepts passed around here? I was actually slightly surprised the mods let that through – I was wondering if they would. I’m glad they did, because I think it’s very funny.
Joseph, from what I’ve heard of the halachos, it might not be so simple (as others such as DY have pointed out here). You are raising a good point, but I think the halachos are more complicated than that, and you should look into them.
And anyhow, the sale is done through the Rav, so you couldn’t have made a direct deal with the goy after Pesach. Do you even know who he is?
I actually met him once. I got to the Rav’s house to do mechiras chometz so last-minute that the goy was already there!
In one of Rav Emanuel Feldman’s books, he writes the following funny true story: He and his son were both Rabbis (I guess his son was the assistant Rabbi or something.) In order to differentiate between them, people would refer to one as the Father and the other as the Son.
One day someone called and he picked up the phone. “Rabbi Feldman speaking.”
“Are you the father or the son?”, asked the lady.
“Neither. I’m the holy ghost.”
As soon as he said it, he realized that it was a bad idea as she might be christian. Turns out she was, but she had a sense of humor, so it was alright.
Now that is very true!
(But I sincerely hope this doesn’t turn into another thread about the benefits of polygamy. Bad idea!)
Everyone has potential. Barak Obama has potential too, but I’m not going to marry him just to see if he ends up fulfilling it.
(ok, I know he’s a goy and that was a weird example, but I couldn’t bring a Jew as an example since it would be L”H, and I couldn’t think of a better example, but you get the point in any case.)
Rebshidduch, I suspect that is not the reason, and I think you know it too. Why should your mother care HOW you meet the guy? I give her more credit than that.
Anyhow, she is trying to set you up now.
LB -hope you weren’t offended. I wouldn’t have said anything, but I was concerned that Rebshidduch might follow your advice, and I was concerned about the outcome.
In any case, the complimenting is a great idea!
I had no idea what it was until I googled it. I’m still not sure I’m talking about the same thing everyone else is.
Thanks for making me feel good about myself! Most of my friends not only don’t know what candy crush is, they don’t even know what a computer is! Well, maybe they know what a computer is, but they probably wouldn’t know how to turn one on or how to do anything with it.
LB, good question.
If you find the chometz on Yomtov, you are supposed to cover it and wait until Chol hamoed to burn it. That is, if you hold that you are supposed to burn it. There may be opinions that you are not allowed to (since it was sold to the goy).
There are definitely opinions that you do burn it even though it was sold to a goy. I was at someone’s house on Pesach who found chometz. He looked up the halacha and reached the conclusion that he was supposed to burn it. I believe this was based on a psak from Rav Elyashiv. And this was despite the fact that it was chometz that had been in a cupboard that was sold to a goy (someone accidentally took a magazine out of the cupboard and there was chometz in it).
However, there may be different opinions, so you should probably ask a sheilah if it happens to you, c”v.
LB – I’ve mentioned this in the past, but I’ll repeat it here. I know an Ashkenazi man who married a Sephardi woman. He wanted to take on her minhagim, so he asked Rav Ovadiah zatsal who said that he is allowed to do so. In that case, it seems to have been because Rav Ovadiah zatsal supposedly held that really everyone in Eretz Yisrael is supposed to be following Sephardi minhagim. (although l’maaseh, in his piskei halacha, he does posken that Ashkenazim can follow the Ashknazi psakim, so it doesn’t sound like he literally thought that every Ashkenazi in E”Y MUST become Sephardi).
please note: I wrote the word “supposedly” because it is second-hand information from one person, so I can not verify the accuracy of the statement.
ZD – thanks for the info, but those were just examples of people who are paid very well – certainly much more than most people I know. I didn’t say that there is no one who is paid better. I chose those examples because they are a good demonstration of the fact that one’s payscale does not correspond to his service to society.
“I don’t see why the wife wouldn’t have to follow the husband like any other wife.”
She has to follow him, but maybe he wants to or agrees to take on her minhagim.
“And I definitely don’t see why her minhagim should be the trendsetter.”
Why not if he doesn’t have a mesorah? As you wrote, if he has no mesorah, he can choose his minhagim, so wouldn’t the next best (to following his own mesorah) be following his wife’s (who does have a mesorah)? I don’t think that he has to if he doesn’t want to, but wouldn’t that be the logical choice?
After all, why should the wife have to change her mesora for no reason?
It’s one thing in an ordinary case where she is changing her mesora in order to take on her husband’s, and even that can be very difficult for some girls. But at least then there is a very good reason for it. But here where he has no mesora anyhow, why shouldn’t her husband allow her to keep hers? (unless of course he has a particular problem with her minhagim).
Had thought it was a typo – maybe it was meant to be “mei melech” or something like that.
Oh! Just got it!
What’s “me”?
No, I’m a Jew.
Yekke – I only saw your post today. It is wonderful of you to stick up for the moderators! However, there are several fallacies in your post, and I am surprised that someone who is as intelligent, introspective, and makpid on analyzing the applications of hilchos l”h as you are did not catch them.
I was considering whether or not I should point them out. For various reasons, I am not so comfortable doing so. So I decided to challenge you to see if you can figure them out for yourself. I really do think you are capable of doing so.
Let me know if you figure out what they are.
“I am unclear about the various parameters of what constitutes a beryah.
What if you eat the little tomato in two bites?
What about a peach if you don’t eat the pit?
Is an egg a beryah?
I’d like to hear some discussion about it.”
1. It doesn’t matter how many bites you eat the tomato in. However, it’s possible that if it takes you more than 9 minutes to eat it, it might be okay. (although I don’t know if you will be).
2. If you don’t eat the peach pit, it’s not a beryah. However, I think all peaches are a k’zayis anyhow.
3. I don’t know if an egg is a beryah or not, but it’s definitely a k’zayis, so there’s no safeik and you definitely need a bracha achrona anyhow.
I located the source. It’s in the Shulchan Aruch, Siman 210, S’eif 1.
The Mechaber says that if you eat less than a k’zayis of food, you do not make a bracha achrona.
He then goes on to say that there is a safeik if one should say a bracha achrona on a “briyah” (complete fruit), and that therefore, one should avoid eating a “briyah” that is less than a k’zayis.
The Rema points out that if you don’t eat the seed, then it’s not a “briyah”.
The Mishna Brurah points out that if you cut off a bit from the fruit, it’s also not a “briyah”.
LB: “Good things about being insulted:
1) It’s a kaparah for who knows what but yay.
2) You get to learn new insults that you may have never heard before.
3) It raises your blood pressure and gives you a reason to practice healthy stress-reducing coping methods.”
LB – you’re the best!!! I have a lot to learn from you… I’m working on internalizing #1, but it ain’t easy. I’ve definitely been getting practice in the CR!
Much as I respect LB, I’m not sure I agree with her second suggestion either (post #125 4476). I really don’t think that’s a good idea.
I do agree with the first part though – giving compliments. I think that giving compliments is a great idea! Just make sure that you give a compliment that you really mean, so it doesn’t sound fake.
“lightbrite, how does this sound “do you wanna go get coffee”?”
Rebshidduch – I can’t see LB’s response yet, but it sounds great to me! I’m sure LB agrees. I think that is the best way to do it. (Ice cream could work too 🙂 )
Personally, I think that sounds better than giving your number to someone and asking her to text you. If someone did that to me, I’d think it was weird, and I might feel a bit threatened by it.
Health – I’m so sorry that you had to suffer like that! It must be awful to be bullied!
When people complain about people taking money from government programs and claim that they are taking money from others in their state or country, they forget something:
The only reason those people have money in the first place is because other people gave it to them! The fact that it’s called a salary doesn’t take away from the fact that someone is giving them money. Of course, they are getting paid for “doing something”. But everyone “does something”. The problem is that different people get paid different amounts for what they are doing. And how much they get paid does not necessarily correlate to the importance of what they are doing.
For example, sports players get paid exceedingly well even though they are not doing anything helpful for society. Actually, they may be doing something detrimental to society. Movie actors and producers are probably amongst the most highly paid people. This is despite the fact that not only do they not work at all, but they spend their lives destroying America!
On the other hand, the people who work the hardest and are helping the country the most are amongst the lowest- paid. Those are the teachers. And the social workers, and the babysitters, etc. Oh, and let’s not forget about the mothers either. They work the hardest for the least amount of money!
So the government programs are there to even things out and give these people back the money that the rich people took from them in the first place!
Mw13 – +1 There was at least one comment that was far worse than this, and much more dangerous.
Yekke2 – +1.
I think it’s a great idea!
Maybe we can start by everyone trying to see how many nice things they can say to or about other posters in the CR and/or about other people and groups in Am Yisrael.
These are the ones still left:
1. Alaska
2. Arkansas
3. Delaware
4. Hawaii
5. Idaho
6. Kansas
7. Louisiana
8. Maine
9.Mississippi
10. Montana
11. Nebraska
12. New Mexico
13. North Carolina
14.North Dakota
15. Oklahoma
16.South Dakota
17.Utah
18.Vermont
19. West VirginiaRY – +1