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“That should be determined by a free market like everything else in our society. Why have we decided that a token hakaras hatov (which by the way even that almost never comes) is sufficient.
Truth be told the shadchanim do it to themselves. If they weren’t so nice and kind they wouldn’t be taken advantage of. By and large they are very nice and bashful and don’t have it in them to ask for fair compensation, therefore they are abused.”
The free market is determined solely by what people are willing to shell out. Law of supply and demand, you know. If people would stop paying such exhorbitant amounts, which apparently they can afford, then perhaps those others who cannot afford it would be able to benefit from those services as well at far lower costs. I would love to see a truly GREAT shadchan refuse to take mroe than $500 for the shidduch. I am betting that she would get more people coming to her, and the others would be forced to lower their fees. Of course, if she got that busy, she probably would start RAISING her fees. It’s a vicious cycle,what can I say? And “nice and kind” are not the terms I would use to describe many shadchanim in my circles. With one exception, they are pushy, too businesslike (brusk) argumentative, and berating of the girls primarily, who are not interested in the boys they push on them.
“and I thought I was the typo king… I humbly acknowledge your superiority in the typo-kingdom! “
Well, at least finally someone is acknowledging my superiority in SOME thing!!!!!!!!
NY MOM if they are eating that stuff, they better pray Montezuma takes no revenge.
“The purpose of the the hat and jacket is “lo shinu es malbushayhen” – we want to dress differently than the seculars. “
That doesn’t cut the mustard, Joseph. The goyim ALL dressed that way (AL CAPONE dressed that way!) in the early to mid part of the twentieth century. Watch any film noir, and you will see fedoras, black suits, white shirts and ties. It has zero to do with “lo shinu…” And today, ALL businessmen dress this way. That’s why the honchos are referred to as “the suits.”
AS, I don’t think ANYONE here believes it is ever ok to hound another Jew for ANY reason. And I DO agree that a professional shadchan should receive some type of financial consideration for his/her efforts. I just question the “accepted” amount.
“(If you don’t like the way this sounds, maybe someone creative can come up with a phrase that sounds better!)”
What about something like, “You have some pretty things in your store, but I am really looking for something quite a bit longer than what I have seen so far, and perhaps on the looser fitting side. Do you have anything else I could look at, and if not at this time, when will you be getting it in? I would love to be able to shop here on a regular basis.”
IMO, singles have to look out for being pushed into rushing into an engagement after only a few short weeks of dating someone. They also have to forget everything they were brainwashed to believe in Seminary, lose the stars in their eyes about shidduchim and their future as Mrs. Kollel Wife, and cash a reality check, before making such an important decision. They need to focus on the middos that THEY observe in the boy or girl, how that person treats tradespeople, waiters, their parents and siblings. They need to determine if the person has outlandish opinions or demands that need to be met.
How do the parents treat each OTHER (especially the father treating his wife with respect). They need to know what a budget looks like, and discuss how they will live financially should Mommy and Totty NOT be able to help with support. What happens when they have kids (as they probably will, right away)? Too many couples do not discuss these things fully. They focus on the transient outer trappings of being engaged, the excitement, the vort, the wedding plans, but not on the things that matter because they are supposed to last a lifetime.
One boy I met together with his kallah for the first time, expressed the definite demand to have an extremely small (and I mean exactly that) wedding, and no need for people to be dancing and making it lebedig. Even when his kallah questioned that idea, he told her he dislikes groups of people, and that is that. Then when he paused and she began to make a comment, he yelled at her in front of us, that he was not finished speaking. When he saw the look on our faces at his rudeness, he softened his tone, but in my mind the damage was done. She called us the next day to ask our opinion, and I told her that while I tried never to make judgments to someone, especially a kallah, I felt very uneasy about this guy, and felt she deserved better treatment and derech eretz from someone who supposedly loved her. She ended up breaking it off (her parents were ecstatic and thanked me a million times – (ooh, maybe I should have received NON-shadchanus gelt for saving her from a bad marriage… JUST KIDDING), and she married a truly fine, ehrlich mensch later that year.
My children have at least four friends among them, who married and divorced within a year or two at most. That appalls me.
“And last time I checked lawyers fees where quite high-whether or not they win the case.”
And many lawyers are willing to take cases on a contingency basis, where there is no out of pocket fee. The lawyer, however, has had years and years of schooling to prepare him for his/her chosen field. Can you say the same about the average shadchan? You are comparing apples and oranges, IMHO.
Ther’s nothing wrong with colorful clothing. It was good enough for Yaakov Avinu to give his son. His only “mistake” was in showing favoritism to ONE child, not in giving him a colorful cloak. Had it been a white cloak made especially for Yosef, it would still have made his brothers jealous.
As long as a shirt and pants are neat and clean, people should be less concerned with their color than with the middos and integrity of the person wearing them.
I like Tamazaball’s approach. If one of the parents is so immature that either he or she cannot be civil for two hours or at least stay out of each other’s way, then THAT parent should not be invited. But explaining the situation beforehand, you can get a feel for both their reactions. My daughter-in-law’s parents are divorced, and though the two of them do not normally speak to each other anymore, when there are family celebrations to which they are both invited they act with derech eretz to each other and do not shterr the simcha.
Gevalt, did I make a lot of typos!!!!! Just ignore, please.
and I thought I was the typo king… I humbly acknowledge your superiority in the typo-kingdom!
Bemused, I honestly have a whole bunch of answers for you, but I think it would just bring us to circular reasoning and prove unproductive in the long run, as I cannot agree with you (though I see your very salient and well-expressed point of view). I guess we will have to agree to disagree. No member of my family would EVER take money for making a shidduch (especially for a family member). The knowledge that their action contributed to building another B”N”B would be reward enough, as it would be with ANY chessed that we did for someone. It is not the same as service providers who are paid for the entertainment, food preparation and decoration of a simcha. Ultimately it is the boy and girl involved who are doing the most work in making the shidduch. The shadchan is a conduit. And while I agree one needs to pay the toll at a bridge, the price of the toll should not be unreasonably high, or people will find an alternate route. I knwo you don’t share my opinion, and I can respect you for the opinion that you do hold. I guess I am a little more idealistic and feel there are certain mitzvos people should do for others without thought of compensation because a) they are in a position to help and b)I was brought up that way. I often babysat for free, too, and my husband has tutored kids for free, as well when he knew they had little in the way of funds. If a shadchan knows of a perfect shidduch for someone and will NOT follow through because she knows the person will be unable to give shadchanus – that bothers me a lot.
“oomis: It’s not shrimp and it’s not lobster are great. They bear only a passing similarity to the real stuff. As for the imitation bacon bits, they don’t even come close to the real thing. (I’m a BT. I know what all that stuff tastes like.) “
My hubby is, too, and he claims the Bacos or Moernigtar Farms strips (milchig)are dead on. iw ould not know the difference. But I could NEVER eat the seafood, knowing what their unkosher counterparts look like. Honestly, I don’t feel I am missing out on anything.
“Firstly, you’re comments here are always so intelligent, that I’m truly surprised at your advocacy of people abdicating their responsibility to pay for services rendered.
Regarding the “in which which sefer does it say you have to pay $2000”, that is truly a puzzling question. In which sefer does it say how much to pay for the wedding band? For the caterer? For the gown rental? For the invitations? For that matter, in which sefer does it say how much to pay your cleaning help? Your hairdresser? Your electrician? Don’t most people understand that they need to pay for services rendered? Except for the most “Es kumpt mir” type of person, most people know that when they use a services, they pay for it. Even if my neighbor, an accomplished plumber, fixes my bathtub, I will still make sure he accepts a regular fee- I’m not looking to get out of paying just because I have a good relationship with my neighbors. Kal vchomer someone who is not my neighbor, and who I call specifically because he/she is known as a shadchan, with no prior friend/family relationship! (I would still pay my friend/family the appropriate fee, as I do not get any satisfaction out of “getting away with not paying”, and if they refuse, I would send an expensive gift).
As far as the family not having the money for ANY of those things mentioned, that means they are not doing those things. If there is someone who is not having a band or a caterer for their wedding, they might also not be able to use the services of a shadchan. Or, just like their might be a tzedakah organization in town to help with the caterer expenses, the family might need help with the shadchan fees. A nice shadchan who knows that a family will likely be needing tzedaka funds to finance a basic catering package might offer a discount on shadchanus fees, in order to do their end of the tzedaka, but that is what it is, tzedaka. The shadchan is no less an important service vendor than the band. “
Bemused, I quoted your entire post, because I felt the need to answer point by point. First of all, thank you for the first part of the first sentence that you wrote. I appreciate it. I do NOT advocate, however, for failure to pay for services rendered, but rather, I question the AMOUNT expected to be paid for those services. Let’s say a shadchan hits the nail on the head with the first suggestion made to the boy or girl. Should the parent give the same shadchanus to her as the parent whose child has to be read ten or twenty shidduchim (some of which result in several dates with the same boy or girl before going on to the next shidduch) by that shadchan? Should the latter parent pay 10 or 20 times the amount the first one pays, simply because more shidduchim were involved, especially if it was not a one date only situation?
Your second paragraph puzzles me more than it puzzles you. Caterers, bands, flowers all have charges that are pretty similar to each other. There are variations in the industries, but that’s why people shop around and pay for what they can afford. I could not afford to make my daughter’s wedding at the Marriot Marquis, but I COULD afford Razag. I couldn ‘t afford a million hot smorg dishes, but I paid for what I could afford. I got gemach items, because they, too, were less, though I LOVE fresh real flowers. I do NOT view a shadchan as a vendor. That is too impersonal. But at least people know what they are getting in service from all the above mentioned providers before accepting the service. You do NOT know what (if anything) the shadchan will find for you, and it really is only long after the fact that a shidduch can be deemed successful or not. While I agree wholeheartedly that a shadchan should be shown some measure of hakoras hatov, if not professional, but a friend of the family, a relative, etc. a professional shadchan should have a reasonable fee that they charge. I do not think that $1,500 from each side is reasonable, and I ask again, where is that written? If they don’t have the money to pay such a fee, does the boy or girl get given back to her parents? It really is not the same thing as paying for the band or flowers.
And should someone poor, as I stated in another post, never be redd shidduchim, because the shadchanim know there is no “real” money coming out of this for them? Maybe the poor families have no recourse to marry off their daughter or son – they have no people who have approrpiate shidduchim for them. This mercenary approach makes me feel very sad. Again only the wealthy are deemd worthy. I cannot believe Hashem smiles on this.
Please do not think me to be of the opinion that people have no obligation to makir tov for something so important. I just question the amount of hakoras hatov involved.
“What did people do before they invented hats and jackets?” “I dont like dressing that way”. etc “
Unfortunately there IS no real answer to that that will ever satisfy the child who does not feel connected to this type of levush. There was a time when the frummest of the frum wore turbans or long robes (no sox) or fishermen’s caps amd knickers, and CERTAINLY no Borsalinos or suit jackets. That I can promise with no doubt. Many of our young people feel the stress put on the levush is hypocritical, especially when they hear of “frum-looking” people committing financial fraud.
I agree that too much emphasis is often put on this, to the point that a young man who does not follow the dress code is deemed almost irreligious by foolish people. However, the issue you are describing is partly the natural rebellion of a child and partly a reaction to some other feeling of negativity associated with this mode of dress or to the formal rituals of Judaism. The more you push, the more he will push back. I think the best advice is to speak to someone (NOT necessarily your own Rov), who is experienced in dealing with kids who have off-the-derech issues (NOT that I believe that the failure to wear a hat and jacket signifies being off OTD, just that it indicates a rebellion against the outward religious accoutrements of your circle). Have you tried ascertaining what his objections are? Can it be that he dislikes his rebbie or some other aspect of school, and is reacting to that by “blaming” the hat and jacket (as symbols of his dislike)? Or is it simply that he does not feel the need to wear these things in order to be frum? If so, and if you live in a Yeshivish world, it is obviously going to be more problematic than if you are in a neighborhood where frum kids come in all manner of (tzniusdik) dress.
Obviously this means a great deal to you, but I would tread cautiously. You don’t want to see your son turn this into a snowball effect and alienate him altogether. Talk to him, and mroe improtant, LISTEN and hear what he is saying.
I am a brewed coffee snob, and HATE instant coffee ever since I learned how to make drip ground coffee. I have a solution. Make double strength brewed coffee just before Shabbos and put it (black) in a thermos which is preheated with very hot water, then spill out the hot water and replace it with the coffee. The next day,pour out half a cup of coffee from the thermos, add hot water from the urn in the proper manner, and you have brewed coffee. The double strength of it gets diluted to normal strength with the added hot water. If you do this is the summer time when Shabbos is later, the coffee might even be piping hot from the thermos early in the morning.It’s making coffee “sense” just like for tea, and it’s real coffee.
yep, she claimed to be a professional, and was recommended to my friend’s daughter, who happens to be an attractive young woman of 22. Even if you think a girl is being picky (and she was not, this clearly is very choshuv to her), why make a comment like that one? I was appalled, so was my friend, and she told the shadchan she no longer needed her services. The girl is seeing someone now who was redd to her by a relative whose son is friendly with the bochur, and maybe B”EH this will be the right one. But whether or not it works out, no one should be treated insensitively just because they do not want to conform to someone else’s preconditions. Or was the shadchan just worried about the money she was losing? She lost it anyway.
“Someone who feels they don’t have the “extra money” lying around should also question themselves if they have the “extra money” lying around for a band or a caterer”
Perhaps they don’t have money for ANY of these things. Should no one redd a shidduch to a poor girl because her father cannot afford to make a wedding, much less shadchanus in the ridiculous amounts that have been suggested here? I thought that THAT was against halacha – that the poor are to be treated with dignity and chessed. In what world does the HALACHA stipulate to a specific set amount for shadchanus? This was never discussed in any kallah class that I ever heard of…
And shadchanim SHOULD undergo training of some type by other successful and caring shadchanim. They should be sensitized to what to say and what not to say, how to not be pushy, how to really LISTEN to the potential chosson or kallah as to what they are looking for, and to GENTLY guide them in a good direction when they are being a little unrealistic. I heard a shadchan say to a friend of mine whose daughter was not interested in either of two proposed shidduchim (because the boys adamantly wanted to only live here and the girl wanted specifically to make aliyah because most of her family was already in E”Y, so she only wanted a like-minded individual),that she will remain single because she is too close minded, and she is not such a beauty that she can afford to be so picky. That was just cruel.
In whart sefer does it stipulate a shadchan should get two thousand dollars?
OY OY OY, I am SO holding my tongue on this one!!!!!
AZ, I am not a shadchanit, nor would I lay claim to being able to make shidduchim. However, I have tried to do so and spent a lot of time on ONE SHIDDUCH for a friend, and though it did not “take,” I would never have taken money from either the friend or the person with whom I set him up had it worked out. I spent a lot of man-hours on this on the phone, on-line, back and forth with the other party’s friend who recommended her to me, and had to literally talk my friend into going out (he has been burned a LOT). I would say I put in a few weeks on this. So though I understand your point, I do not feel a shadchan should expect or ever ask for the kind of money that has been mentioned here. You will not change my opinion, and I will not change yours. I can live with that.
When you can show me that a shadchan has had the years of training to do his/her profession that other people put into training for their professions (And btw, what exactly DOES qualify that person to be a shadchan?), then I will concede your point. Most shadchanim whom I know are NOT professional in any way. They only think of themselves as such, but do not conduct themselves in a professional manner.
Retirement IS the way!!!! And I stil am working, just don’t get paid in money. I babysit for my beautiful baby granddaughter kinehora, and every minute with her is pure gold to me. Baby kisses and hugs are WAY better than cash!
My bad, it was one type, then. I never used it myself, but had heard they got a hechsher on one or two of the soups a few years ago. I had heard the tomato soup was also kosher, but dairy. In any case, I WISH they would all go Kosher, or the Healthy Harvest (or Healthy Choice, whatever it is) and Progresso, because those soups look so yummy.
Sammygol, what’s wrong with Kesser wines, may I ask? Do they not have a hechsher?
I would love Kosher Kentucky Fried Chicken in NY. And I really wish we could eat T-Bone steaks or sirloin.
On the opposite side, I really wish they would not make kosher stuff like It’s Not Shrimp, or It’s Not Lobster. That stuff just sickens me to even think of it (though I love the imitation bacon bits).
When substituting UNsweetened applesauce in ANY cake recipe, please don’t alter the rest of the recipe. You are already reducing the fat. If you use less sugar, the taste,
as well as the TEXTURE (yes, sugar affects the texture) will be different from what the recipe is supposed to be, and you may not like it.
“Just curious you suggest $100 to hire a shadchan. How many hours of the shadchans time do you think that should buy? How many phone calls should that rewuire her to make on on the girls behalf? How much time speaking to the girls and her parents. I’m sure in you proffesion $100 buys UNLIMITED access to your time and skills.
When you realize the time energy and effort it takes to get even ONE date off the ground I believe you will sing a different tune..
Lets all face the facts. We feel totally justified in taking total ADVANTAGE of shadchanim….
That is just plain WRONG!! “
My arbitrary fee quote was just that – arbitrary. But for $100, I think a Shadchan can spend 4 hours (total time) making phone calls on behalf of the client. I would love to be paid $25 an hour for working. I am retired, but when I was employed I made much less than that and worked at least as hard as you are describing. No one should take advantage of anyone, you are 100% correct. But plenty of shadchanim redd shidduchim for the wrong reasons, JUST to try to make that fee.
Not really like a crockpot, the food is already cooked partway, and continues cooking on Shabbos. The coffee maker would be starting from scratch ON Shabbos.
Campbell’s soups (there are one or two that are kosher and dairy) and NutraSystem pre-packaged diet meals.
The coffee maker is literally cooking the ground coffee, which could not be drunk unless it were boiled, as opposed to instant coffee, which could be even mixed with cold water (however yucky that thought) and be edible, or even mixed into another food item such as chocolate pudding and eaten. Ground coffee is still undrinkable in its present state until it is boiled with water. Plus, the coffee maker has a filter, so maybe there is a borer issue also. There is no congruence between a light timer and a coffee timer. We are permitted to have lights on Shabbos. Fresh-cooked food or drink, we are not. I also learned our keilim do not have to rest on Shabbos, or we would never be able to have a refrigerator, heat, or A/C on. So the timer is not an issue for a light.
AZ, the kind of person you describe as a shadchanim SHOULD be compensated for their time, because clearly their entire life is about shidduchim. But they should be paid for their HISHTADLUS, not for whether the shidduch goes through, if it’s as time-consuming as you describe. Anyone who wants a shadchan to work for them, should sign a contract as with any service, and pay a fee (say $100 or so). THEN they have the right to make those calls to the shadchan, and the shadchan has to make an obvious and sincere effort to find a shidduch for the son or daughter. If they make a successful shidduch, maybe another $100 can be paid. But if not, at least they were paid for trying. And if it can be proved they did NOT try, they should return the money that was given to them.
“I’ve never heard of a set amount of money that a person must give to a shadchan or shadchanit. In my circles, if somebody makes a shidduch for a couple, the couple buys the person a nice gift”
I am 100% for that. I would also give a kibud to the shadchan (or her spouse, if the shadchan is a female) at my child’s wedding.
“You don’t expect the mohel to work w/o a payment, so why should a professional shadchan be any different? After all, you don’t HAVE to use their services if you don’t wish. “
FTR, a mohel is NOT allowed to charge a fee. He receives a monetary matana. I had one mohel tell me an amount for the usual “matana” and it much less than another mohel’s matana, and had another mohel refuse to take money from me at all. If you HIRE a shadchan to find a match, that is very different from someone you know redding a shidduch for you. There are many types of shadchanim, only a few act professionally in my opinion. And if the shadchan is trying to make shidduchim professionally, they should be paid a REASONABLE fee for their effort, whether or not it succeeds, if in fact they are really working on behalf of their client. A doctor is paid whether or not he cures the sick person. If a person puts in many hours to try to redd a genuine shidduch (as opposed to “here’s a boy, here’s a girl, it’s a match”), there should be some compensation financially for that work. If it goes through, a small gift should be given, too, not $1,000 from each side. Just my opinion, folks.
“Since clothes send a message, what message is she sending to the people around her when she goes around in a short/tight skirt? Would you like to answer this?”
I am totally against the wearing of short skirts for reasons of tznius, but the fact is that the message she is sending is that she is dressing like everyone else in the secular world. It is ONLY the people who dress in longer more subjectively modest clothing, who notice her. EVERYONE ELSE IS USED TO IT!!! And don’t misunderstand, I am not advocating that short skirts are proper to be worn, but you asked what message she is sending. To the world at large she is sending no special message whatsoever. That may say something negative about the world at large for being so desensitized, but it is what it is. And btw, in the 1950s FRUM women went to the beach in bathing suits, wore pants, sleeveless dresses didn’t cover their hair except in Shul and when they bensched licht,and sang in mixed groups with men (Bnei Akiva groups, for example) and virtually no one would ever have considered those Shomrot Shabbos, kosher, mikvah attending women to be untzniusdig. We live in a different time now, when these things have become a real lifestyle change for how we define frumkeit and tznius. I am not saying in any way, shape, or form that the Torah standards ever changed, only that there was a different type of acceptance fifty years ago. And in general, there was MUCH less sinas chinam back then, too. No one ever told the chassidish kids on my block not to play with me or eat in my home, just because my mother didn’t cover her hair all the time. Maybe it was not a perfect world from a halachic standpoint, but there was much good in it that we can learn from today.
I think it is beyond outrageous to set a price on this mitzvah and chessed. Yes, hakoras hatov should be shown,and a gift should be given, but when I hear a monetary amount, it makes me see red. WHO EXACTLY decided that? I don’t know many people who have $1,000 lying around in a drawer. What happened to doing something l’shem mitzvah?
Thank you very much, Jothar. I wash them anyway before cutting them, because any toxic stuff can transfer not only to the knife, but to the inside of the orange. Does anyone have an easy and yummy recipe for making esrog jelly (that does not require sterilizing jars)?
” Do we really keep all the mitzvot that HASHEM has given us properly? Do we really need to wear tziztit , teffilin and dance in Simcha Torah to feel fulfill and the love to HASHEM?”
I agree with all that you say, BUT – though we women do not need to wear Tzitzis or tefillin, which are obligatory on men only, dancing is not an obligation, it is an expression of simcha, and SIMCHA is a mitzvah gedolah incumbent on both men and women. If one grows up in an environment where dancing as an expression of simcha has always been done, that person would never say that men alone should be allowed to express themselves thus. They would understand that many women, too, feel the joy and want to express it (in a tzanua manner, of course). It is not a desire to be like men, or a desire to be chauvinistic – it is that many women feel the need for the SAME OUTLET that is available to the men. As long as it is within halachic guidelines, what skin is coming off anyone’s nose for women to be able to express themselves joyfully, as men have done for centuries? Didn’t Miriam take the women off to dance after the crossing of the Yam Suf? I think we make WAY too much of this issue, and it is the fact that people make an issue at all, that creates a feeling of “second-class citizenship” in many Jewish women frum and not frum alike. JMO (the non-Dancing Queen)
I agree with NY Mom. I also think it’s a good idea to see how the other person interacts with his or her family members. That can give you a lot of insight into the real person. I do not necessarily agree with Jothar, that if the hashkafos are compatible and the person’s looks do not repulse you, that’s the one. I hope Jothar, you were speaking tongue in cheek. Of course, that only means that person has the POTENTIAL to be The One. There are at least 100 guys I knew who had similar hashkafos to mine, and weren’t repulsive, and ONLY my husband was the right one for me. Not being repulsed by their looks, is not exactly a ringing endosement.
We only make kiddush in the succah on Shemini Atzeres night. My husband goes to Hakofos at Shul, and the chassidic minhag is that if you don’t eat in the succah the last days, you go to hakafos on S”A. In truth, I don’t understand why anyone eats in the succah on S”A, it is not succos, it is a new and separate chag. Anyway, after the winds we had and most of the neighborhood succahs collapsing, I was glad we still had a succah to eat in until this morning! Chag sameach all.
When you cannot envision your future without him/her and can easily see this person being the father/mother to your children, that’s probably a good indication.
Think what you will, but I much prefer having a frum doctor who understood what I was saying when I was told I might not be allowed to fast this past Yom Kippur and I replied that I could not possibly eat. Because he is a learned man as well as a doctor, he was able to come to a p’shoroh with me and told me exactly how to ask a shailah about this, and what signs to look out for after which I would have no choice but to break my fast. He saw it was very choshuv to me to go through Y”K properly, and B”H I was able to. Another doctor’s attitude was, “What’s the big deal? So you’ll fast NEXT year!”
Any Jew who thinks a secular education is unnecessary, is fooling himself, Even the frummest of the frum have to know how to add and subtract, how to communicate and write a sentence that makes sense, and how to follow written directions. I have seen uneducated women begin to mix bleach and ammonia for cleaning purposes, because they had never heard that this is toxic. And if anyone wants their kollel wives to be able to support them, they had BETTER hope those wives are educated.
I’m with Starwolf on this one.
I like Chinese ALMOND cookies, like Stella D’Oro used to make. “Fortune” cookies have no taam.
Good one, Feif Un.
To drink one l’chaim, yes, I can see that. The problem is that too many guys think they need a few do-overs in case they didn’t get the right touch of “chaim” the first time.
There are few worse example for our children to see than to witness a sloppy drunk Yid in shul.
And noch di tzi, to claim it shows love of Torah…
ROB, thank YOU for that erudite and thoughtful post (I always like it when someone backs up something that I have mentioned) 🙂
Thank you, onlyemes, for that really interesting and comprehensive post.
Hashem gave us a brain for a reason. Yes, it is to learn Torah, but it is also to understand and enjoy the world around us. It is not for nothing that we say a bracha “SheChalak m’Chochmoso l’Yerei-av.” We have an obligation to use the talents Hashem gives us, for learning and for growing in all aspects of education. We need doctors, scientists, GOOD educators, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, accountants, farmers. None of these things can be accomplished without education in secular areas of life. If all Jews ONLY learned Torah (and when Moshiach comes we can experience that), there would be no Jews learning how to do the other things that sustain us in life also.
A yeshivah bochur in Kollel does not know how to suture a wound, much less do brain surgery. Secular education is needed for that. Any frum Jew who believes otherwise, had better pray hard that he never needs the services of someone who also had a secular education.
So, are we saying that though ALL JEWS are tamei because there is no Beis Hamikdash, that men, who don’t even go al pi halacha to the mikveh l’shem mitzvah, unlike married women who at least do so at specific times, have more kedusha to touch a S”T than women? I am NOT saying this in order to start an argument with anyone – I really do not understand why this is so. What kedusha is inherent in males that is not inherent also in women? And why are women not on a higher madreiga in kedusha by virtue of the fact that they go to the mikvah because they have a mitzvah to do so, which men do not (so the men’s tumah cannot be removed even a little bit, as compared to the women)?
And btw, I have never davened in a shul where the Sifrei Torah were not brought over to the Ezras Nashim on Simchas Torah, so the women could touch them. So again, I am asking, is all that has been quoted from various sources, halacha l’maiseh, or the opinion of a rov that this is a “better not to do” situation? There is a real difference between saying something is assur, to saying that it’s preferred not to do it. It’s better for me not to eat too much red meat, but until my doc says it’s assur for me, I am making a roast for Shemini Atzeres! And is every thing that has been mentioned here, accepted by ALL rabbonim (or a majority)? Are minority opinions also written in the Mishneh Berurah and other sources?
Whoever responds to my questions, please respond with the idea in mind that I am asking because I do not know the answers to these questions – I am not making fun of Daas Torah.
Didn’t the Lubavitcher Rebbe Z”L attend the Sorbonne? In France, yet!!!!!
So is a woman permitted to kiss a mezuzah on the doorpost (after all, she is touching the klaf, even if it is in a case, just as a sefer Torah is encased in a cover?
Thanks, mybat. and TY Jothar for that interesting lesson.
Mybat, I am not taking issue with you at all. I learned very differently,so I wonder what the exact words of the MB are, and if I am able to look it up, I will. It is possible that something is written as a “better not to” rather than “absolutely assur.” So I am wondering if that might be the case here. I learned it is not possible for a ST to “catch” tumah from ANYTHING, even a sheretz or dead body.