popa_bar_abba

I never read it but the people I know who really love her are all really annoying people.

Fair enough.

randroids are fun to talk to doe, always fun to get them going about the gold standard.

You must not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold.

So she was smart enough to selectively discuss her philosophy, and only mention the good parts. Shkoyach.

???

It wasn’t a mesorah. She could have changed it if she didn’t like parts of it.

why can’t we just discuss it over there

You could. I’ll just copy paste your posts from there to here.

Haifagirl: really? Ayn Rand is (in)famous for her flamboyant atheism and belief in the legalization of srufs. Her philosophy was that moral laws don’t exist and that man’s aim in life is simply happiness, at any cost. It goes without saying she is not a Jewish role model, and her beliefs are antithetical to Torah and basic human decency.

Posted 2 hours ago #

rationalfrummie

Member

my bad, not srufs, I meant legalization of drugs.

Posted 2 hours ago #

haifagirl

Chief of Grammar Enforcement Commandos

Yes, she was an atheist. But you are simplifying her philosophy to the extreme.

There is nothing antithetical to Torah about rewarding accomplishment rather than incompetence. At least, not that I know of.

Posted 1 hour ago #

OneOfMany

The Impressively Arbitrary Nymphadora the Purple ^_^

[…]rewarding accomplishment rather than incompetence.

I think you are simplifying (or at least whitewashing) her philosophy. What I got from reading Atlas Shrugged is that the unfortunate are all soulless grasping vermin that seek to leech off the successful and drag them down to shame and mediocrity. I very much agree with the essential ideas (as you have stated) of hard work and vision being valued, but she takes these ideas to an extreme that doesn’t even make any sense.

Also, about her writing–in my personal opinion, she is not a great novelist. True, she has very good technical style, being that English is not her first language and all, but that isn’t the only criterion of good writing.

Posted 1 hour ago #

yytz

Member

Ayn Rand preached atheism, as part of the all-encompassing cult-like philosophy of life she invented (“objectivism”), and her books were meant to convince people to adopt her warped worldview. Her books exalted ruthless selfishness as the highest value, and displayed utter contempt for poor people. Much like Nietzsche, she meant to turn Western Judeo-Xian values upside down.

I think it’s highly inappropriate for a Jew to read a book by a someone (particularly a Jew like Ayn Rand) who invented and evangelized for a new atheistic ideology. However, I’m not surprised that some read her anyway, since its politics coincide with some people’s right-wing economic views.

People have every right to conclude that conservative economic and welfare policies are better — even though, at least in Israel, you’d be hard-pressed to find any gadol supporting right-wing economic policies like cutting welfare and such — but they shouldn’t conclude that then any author who shares such views is kosher.

Perhaps many people enjoy her writing, but it’s also commonly observed that reading her books tends to warp people’s personalities, making them less kind and pleasant and more ruthless and cruel. I’ve noticed this personally in people I know. It’s often temporary, but not always.

I’m not concerned about her advocacy for legalization of drugs. It’s a genuine empirical question whether making drugs illegal causes more harm than good. I’m not aware of Chazal showing any interest in banning or restricting certain substances and throwing people in jail if they disobey.

Posted 1 hour ago #

benignuman

The Congenial Na Nach

Ayn Rand’s books preached midas s’dom. A self-centered society where charity is a crime, was her ideal. She held about as an anti-Torah philosophy as one could have.

Posted 38 minutes ago #

rationalfrummie

Member

Midas S’som is an excellent analogy to the ‘utopia’ Rand constructed in her ridiculous works. She may have been a fine writer, and definitely convinced many people that she was right. However, it’s clear that anyone who calls themselves frum or God fearing should view her philosophy with disgust.

She believed knowledge was based on sensory perception(eliminating morality), despised all forms of religion, and believed the highest purpose of man is his own selfish happiness.

Here’s the money quote: “An individual should exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself.” That’s a disgusting ideology, which will only lead to a culture of selfishness, hedonism, and the abandonment of good deeds.

Posted 13 minutes ago #

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/jonathan-swift#post-456564

Seriously, Popa???? Is next Purim coming early?

It’s always purim in the CR.

Re your Prediction: Will you ‘probably be opining’ that you were mistaken if I show you that you were?

Sure, if the netziv says that there is a mitzva for us to establish a frei state as part of the geulah process, I will readily admit that is what he says. And that you have some basis for your thinking.

I still won’t agree with it, because my rebbeim don’t, and it is only a shitas yochid of the netziv.

And about the frei country, the Moshiach himself comes from ma’ase Yehudah ve”Tamar, Lot and his daughters, Dovid and Bat Shevah and so forth.

Yeah, and nobody holds that any of those were a mitzva. Part of G-d’s plan–yes. Just the same as the Holocaust and the ????? ?????.

So mazel tov, you think your state is the same as the ????? ?????.

I don’t know if it is necessary or not; I don’t know enough about what G-d is intending. Perhaps mashiach will come by a frum majority electing him as machiach. But even that would not lend any religious significance to the state, and it would only be as necessary as the Holocaust was.