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Choppy: That’s just not true. It’s quoted in his name. He never published it. Someone once told me that he asked him if he really Paskened that way and he said that he never said it.
Repharim: Better that I don’t make it but K’lal Yisrael has Mashiach than me continuing my life in this current world. It would take the most selfish of people to want to keep themselves in a better position at the expense of the entire world.
Why is it Muttar to measure the Shiurim at the Seder? I know they say it’s okay for a Mitzvah, but measuring the Shiur for pretty much everything is possible before Yom Tov. Using precise measuring tools (or those measuring cards) shouldn’t be Muttar on Yom Tov. You should have to do it before.
Toi: He was not making fun of the Gemara. He was pointing out my slight misrepresentation of it (by using an improper wording) and I thanked him for correcting me.
Far east: That type of attitude skirts a very dangerous line. Obviously everyone should be fulfilled in what they do, but if they can only find fulfillment in not being Halachah-observant then they need to change what fulfills them (or, worst-case, live an unfulfilled life) rather than feeling good about themselves but not keeping Halachah.
Wolf: Thank you for correcting my mistaken Lashon. I meant someone who is wearing shorts (at that time), not someone who wears shorts at other times.
WoW: If that’s the case, maybe you can talk to him about entering a lower-level Yeshivah. You said he’s smart. Maybe put him somewhere where he’d be one of the smartest and most knowledgeable kids. Let him be in a situation where other kids look up to him and where he can feel useful, important, and involved. Maybe see if he can enjoy Judaism from that perspective.
Health: First of all, if you’re going to make a Passuk into a rallying cry, get it right. Second of all, learn some Tanach. When there was a real state of war, the answer wasn’t to sit everyone down in a Beis Medrash. We davened and then we prepared to fight.
Kozov: You can. The Besht clearly wasn’t. And you can ignore the word “probably”. That was just me being nice. There are plenty who try to be Meyashev Chassidish (and the Arizal) thought with the Rambam, but all of them are clear distortions of the Moreh.
Choppy: “Choosing to be Machmir” in this case would mean not eating it outside a Seuda where you already made Hamotzi.
Goq: Of course not. I can’t argue with Torah Misinai. That would make me an Apikores. Or worse, “MO”. 🙂
Choppy: Fine. And Chareidim are Jewish just like “MO” is Jewish. Therefore, by your logic, all Jews are Apikorsim who should never be trusted and are guaranteed to go off the Derech. Your comment is just hateful, stupid, and willfully ignorant. The differences were laid right in front of your eyes in this thread and you chose to ignore it because it wouldn’t suit your hate-based agenda.
Just to be clear, I was 100% serious when I mentioned the Chukas Hagoyim issue. I actually think that it’s an Issur D’oraisa.
Mod 42: They are clearly not a lack of Tznius per se in the usual sense. You would need a source saying that. There is certainly not the Tznius issue that there is when a woman wears something not appropriate. There is, however, an issue of what is considered proper attire in each and every community and what is therefore befitting of a representative of Hashem to wear. See Mishnah B’rurah 2:1, if I recall correctly.
Just remember, according to the P’sak of the Shulchan Aruch you cannot make an Al Netilas Yadayim unless you have a K’beitzah of bread. So even if you have croutons that are Vadai Hamotzi (i.e. just dried bread) you wash without a Bracha unless there’s a pretty good amount.
Syag: I think that recent revision by 95 was facetious.
Choppy: Precisely. You just proved my point. Call it LWMO instead of Conservadox if you want. I don’t care. But you clearly see that there is a big difference in the two. So why are you lumping them together?
Pcoz: Let’s say there’s a Machlokes in the Gemara about what an Amora actually said. You can’t say they both happened. They didn’t. (I feel like there’s a Gemara that references this exact point. Two people swore about what Rebbe said so one had to be wrong. Am I imagining this? If anyone remembers that Gemara please point it out.) As Itche said, since we can’t be Machria in any way we have to treat both possibilities as possibly correct (hence a sort-of Eilu V’eilu), but in this type of case it’s clear that they can’t both be true, Mah She’ein Kein when someone is Darshaning a Passuk.
Mod 95: It’s not outrageous. It’s just denial. It’s like the Chalaria’s claim that there are no gay people in Iran.
I wouldn’t, that’s for sure. Not unless the croutons met very, very specific standards (none of which any salad croutons on the market meet that I know of). There are certainly many who are slightly more Meikil in this than I am (it’s hard to be more Machmir but I’m sure there’s someone who’s managed it 🙂 ), but if whoever you usually hold by is then I can’t say that they’re wrong. There are a lot of opinions out there on this.
Choppy: You’re ignoring a very important semantics difference. You are lumping both the community that Syag described and the one that Feif described as “MO” and therefore saying that “MO” has problems. But you can clearly see the difference, can’t you? Just because a community that is more properly described as Conservadox calls themselves “MO” shouldn’t mean that the “Modern Orthodox” communities who remember the Orthodox part of their name should be lumped with them as problematic. That would be like saying BMG has a lot of Zionists because there are some Zionists in Ner Yisrael. They’re both “Chareidi/Yeshivish”, right? So that’s a fair claim? You can see that’s ridiculous, can’t you?
Syag: Shakespeare spoke in old English and certainly parts of it are still used because of him, but the “thou shalt not” form comes from the ten commandments in the King James bible. At least, that’s where common usage comes from. I’m sure he (and by he I mean whoever translated it; James just financed it, not wrote it) didn’t invent the form. He’s just the reason it’s popular today, which is all Chukas Hagoyim should care about.
A theater might be worse than a baseball stadium. Maybe I could hear a Ta’ana that modern-day sports are not Moshav Leitzim or any of the other Issurim mentioned in the Gemara. I always found making these Siyums and the Asifa in stadiums strange. R’ Moshe and the Tzitz Eliezer both have T’shuvos absolutely blasting making Minyanim in movie theaters. I assume that the Gedolim now think that a sports arena isn’t as bad and therefore the ability to host so many people outweighs any Halachic issues that may or may not be relevant. A theater, though, still feels much more problematic.
(I have no idea who was behind this. I probably don’t want to know. I am sure that they have a very qualified Rav who endorsed this and while if it was up to me I probably would not have, I am sure that whoever decided to do this is far more qualified than I to determine if it’s okay in this circumstance.)
I think Pashtus is that we don’t say Eilu V’eilu (or at least not to the same extent) in a Machlokes in Metziyus. One is right and one is wrong. (However, an indeterminable historic fact may not count as a Machlokes in Metziyus, but it’s unclear why.)
Using this format is Chukas Hagoyim, right? It’s from the King James translation. No one would ever speak in the “thou shalt not” or “thou shall” form nowadays otherwise. I actually think speaking (maybe you could be Mechalek for posting but I don’t hear that) like that is an Issur D’oraisa.
Far east: The Mishnah in Megilah says that one who wears shorts may not Daven for the Amud (well, one P’shat in the Mishnah that seems to be brought down L’halacha says that, at least). It says nothing about Davening or about being in Shul in shorts. There is definitely a lack of “Hikon Likras Elokecha Yisrael” in wearing shorts for Davening, but Tzarich Iyun if that should outweigh the Ma’aleh of T’filah B’tzibbur.
You for sure don’t have to wash unless there is a K’zayis worth of croutons in the salad and cannot make Al N’tilas Yadayim unless there is a K’beitzah (also keep in mind that there is a lot of air in the croutons). On the Bracha and the particular cases, this is a large Machlokes that may or may not depend on where or how or why the croutons were made, what they were made out of, and how crunchy they are. Unless the croutons meet very specific conditions, it’s best not to eat them outside of a Seudah that you already made Hamotzi during.
I know of a Tirtza, a Noa, and a Machlah. (Several Machlas, actually. They’re all middle names though. No first names.)
Of course, I also know of a Frum girl named K’fira.
Wrong Getzel. The only lack of Kavod Hatorah here is someone who refuses to actually learn or discuss something because (I honestly have no idea why you are refusing this discussion). MDD and I are discussing P’shat in a Gemara. What possible lack of Kavod Hatorah is involved in that? Because you don’t like the Gemara?
Oh, and R’ Chaim’s statement is just explaining the Rambam. Pashtus is that we don’t Pasken like that Rambam (for several reasons, the most notable is the Ra’avad’s Ta’ana that “Gedolim V’tovim Mimenu”).
About every imaginable combination of Minhagim exists for what to do with music during the 3 weeks and S’fira. We don’t pick and choose Minhagim. Ask your father or your Rav what your Minhag is and be happy following that.
(Of course if your Minhag permits listening to any a capella but you don’t want to there is no obligation to. However, if your Minhag is to Asser any recorded music, even slow and heartfelt, then you cannot listen to that type of music just because it feels appropriate for this time. There are other branches of Judaism that do things based on what “feels” proper. Orthodoxy isn’t one of them. My advice would be to skim through all of your a capella music and make yourself a playlist/CD of slow a capella songs that you think will inspire you during this time.)
Toi: That Gemara is in the first Perek of Kiddushin, no? But that aside, I think the Gemara would agree that if someone feels ill but only learns and doesn’t go to a doctor then dies from it that he was Mischayev Benafsho for not seeing a doctor. The point is a doctor alone is not enough. That Gemara does not C”V mean that the only remedy for physical ills is Talmud Torah. Maybe that would be theoretically true if we were all on that Madreiga (I say maybe because even in that case the Rambam certainly wouldn’t say that). But it certainly shouldn’t be taken literally to it’s full conclusion. (Of course, though, if anyone has any trouble-physical or emotional-adding learning is a tremendous way to help overcome that.)
Ohr Chodesh: Because makeup is obvious to the guy that she’s wearing. This might not be.
AMBP: That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. HKBH didn’t plan for this at Briyas Ha’olam? People who go OTD have no Bechirah because they got Goyish Neshamos? That’s just stupid.
Kozov: I apologize. I have no interest in writing an entire treatise on Chassidus and the Moreh Nevuchim here. (I’m sure there are plenty of such treatises on the internet. See what Google can find you. I haven’t searched so I don’t know what’s reliable, but you seem smart enough to figure out what’s reliable in this by yourself.)
Itche: I meant that it’s fine nowadays. I have no idea how it started or what caused it to be accepted, but Chassidus has been accepted as not being Apikorsus by the vast majority of Jews now. Thus, it’s clear that we don’t quite Pasken like the Rambam in every detail here. Or, at the very least, we accept that Chassidus has enough to rely on even against the Rambam.
There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s no different than makeup. You should probably tell the guy about them at some point.
Kozov: He did say that it’s another approach, not that what he said was guaranteed.
Getzel: Really? You won’t enter a Halachic discussion because people can quote Mekoros and therefore “do not believe in Da’as Torah”? What kind of Judaism is that?
Choppy: And we have a Sanhedrin nowadays who can accomplish that? Once we have a Sanhedrin, the Din of Zaken Mamrei comes into play. Now, though, that doesn’t exist.
Kozov: I do not see the contradiction between his words and your quote of the Rambam. That was his point. Nothing will necessarily be easier. Maybe it will be. Hopefully so. But his point was that you can’t rely upon that. Also, you apparently read the Iggeres on T’chiyas Hameisim. So you know that the Rambam very much limits it.
Choppy: Learn the Mishnayos in Horiyos then understand what Rashi means.
Oh. You mean ComicCon, don’t you? You should check the day’s schedule. Parts of it are perfectly fine and fun (from what I’ve heard) but there are definitely things there that you should avoid. Check the schedule and make sure not to be in the wrong places during those times.
Ohr Chodesh: That is not the proper attitude. We have Mekoros and Poskim to tell us what is Assur. Not just “if you have a question about it you probably shouldn’t do it.” What would be the point of Poskim and Shailos then?
Kozov: Read the Moreh Nevuchim. He addresses every instance where it seems that Hashem has feelings or physical attributes.
WoW: It comes from a certain attitude that the kid has, which we can even see in your post. You statement of, “You just don’t have to be as machmeer as we are” just rings false to him. He’s been taught his whole life that the more Machmir the better and that if you’re not perfect then you’re terrible (I remember once attending a “Mussar schmooze” where the speaker explained how someone who follows every Halachah to the letter but settles for the B’dieved sometimes or who isn’t Mehader to be Yotzei Kol Hade’os (that phrase will stay with me forever) is Yoreish Gehinnom. ) Which is a great attitude for those who can do it. But for kids who grow up this way it’s hard to reconcile that with any option of being Meikil or even societally different. Because when everything is lumped together, and a Mechalel Shabbos is the same not Frum Jew as, for example, someone who is willing to eat a Rabbanut Hashgacha, then telling him that he can be Meikil on something just rings false. Because to the way he was taught, being Meikil is the same as not doing anything. So why do anything halfway? (That’s my theory, at least, on why it seems like Chareidi kids who go OTD go so much farther off and why they often seem to become almost a caricature of everything they were taught that not-Frum people are.) That being said, I honestly have no idea how to make your son see a potential halfway. I’m sorry. If I think of anything, though, I will post it here.
BaalHabooze: This time I’ll protest before pcoz gets to it. Hashem doesn’t feel pain.
Yekke: That Gemara is in Yoma 67b, I believe, and is quite taken out of context by many.
Englishman: The Gemara in Brachos (I believe) gives several opinions. One is that they were like twins conjoined at the back. Another is that Adam had a tail which became Chava. I don’t remember if there were any others.
Kozov: Really? You have the arrogance to think that what we do is on a higher level than what was an accepted and joyous practice during the time of the Tannaim (and maybe even before)? No, it’s unfortunately for us that we cannot control our Yetzer Harah to that extent.
Pcoz: I don’t think it’s a big deal. She just left out the word “Kav’yachol”. There’s an inherent Kav’yachol implied (I hope) whenever we talk about Hashem and just about any human feeling or emotion or anything so I don’t think it was Apikorsus. That being said, we should be more careful about how we speak and such.
SiDi: RSRH is just quoting the Rambam that Yemos Hamashiach won’t be anything different from how the world is right now, with the only exception that the Jewish people will be sovereign on themselves and not ruled by anyone else. He Paskens like Shmuel in the Gemara. “Ein Bein Olam Hazeh L’yemos Hamashiach Ela Shib’ud Malchuyos Bilvad.”
Kozov: I cannot answer for or say anything against the Ba’al Shem Tov, but much of Chassidish thought is probably Apikorsus according to the Rambam (mostly from Yesodei Hatorah, certainly if you read the Moreh). Which is fine. They have their Gedolei Haposkim and the Rambam’s Shittah in regards to Kabbalah has certainly not been accepted. But quoting a Ba’al Shem Tov to someone who is quoting Apikorsus according to the Rambam won’t get you anywhere. They’re two entirely different planes of discussion.
Getzel: You’re right. I mashed those two together. It’s a long Z’man and I’m not quite on top of everything anymore. I need to catch up on sleep and relax for a bit. I can probably make it until Tishah B’av though. And I never disagreed about that or said that it was less valuable. My simple question was where is the source that it grants more physical protection than actual physical defense does.
I believe the source that is used to say that those learning in Yeshivah don’t need the army is Bava Basra 7a (or somewhere around there), “Rabannan Lo Tzrichi N’tirusa”. But if I recall correctly, if you look at the Rishonim there it shouldn’t really apply to this case.