WolfishMusings

TWO QUESTIONS I POSE:

2) If yes, to whom?

1. Yes

2. Every other Jew in the world before me.

The Wolf

Additionally I dont like the idea of a kosher liquor store since there is no hashgacha on the place

Please forgive the ignorance, since I’m not a drinker…

Why does a liquor store need a hashgacha? I can certainly understand why you’d want one on the actual bottles of liquor — but why does the store need a hashgacha any more than a Shop Rite might (which it doesn’t).

What are these legitimate shailas that might prevent you from buying a sealed bottle of liquor with a hechsher at the store?

The Wolf

3. In this day and age she can get a degree online, which she could probably do without everyone knowing

Why do you find that acceptable?

If she’s taking kibbud av to the point where she won’t go to college against her father’s wishes, why is it right if she does it behind his back?

The Wolf

You have to answer the following questions:

1. Does she have to go to college to earn a living for her husband?

2. Assuming the answer to #1 is yes, are her parents capable of being reasoned with?

3. Assuming the answers to both #1 and #2 are yes, then you should be able to convince them to let her go.

If not, then your friend has to realize that she can’t have everything. She may have to marry someone who is willing to forego the first couple of years of learning while she earns a degree (once she’s married, her obligation of kibbud av in that respect may no longer apply) or else learn to live with a job that does not require a college education.

The Wolf

You misunderstood me, I said “punkt farkert” than what you understood.

Then in that case, I apologize. I did, indeed, misunderstand what you wrote.

The Wolf

btw wolf, my “well done” comment was meant wholly sincerely. (in the past you have misinterpreted a comment or two of mine as sarcastic)

Not a problem. I understood what you meant. 🙂

Thanks.

The Wolf

So what does the olem think about Doctor,Physician assistant, Nursing or Nurse Practitioner, OT, PT, Speech Therapy, CPA, MBA, Law….

That’s quite a broad range to ask for a single opinion…

The Wolf (who will, hopefully, finish his MBA next year).

When a father yells at his son not to talk during davening, and then turns around to discuss business with his friend, that is hypocritical, and that sends a more damaging message then non kosher cell phones and internet in my book.

Agreed. And even if it has the appearance of being holy and proper it can still come back to bite you.

A personal example:

A few years ago, I would often open up a mishnayos during Chazaras HaShatz. I did this for a while until one day I caught my oldest reading a novel during Chazaras HaShatz. When I told him that it was inappropriate to read during ChS, he responded that I did it, so why couldn’t he? I tried (at first) to justify that my reading was different since I was reading something that was Torah, but in the end, I had to concede the point that he was right. I told him that his point was valid, I was wrong, and that, as of right then, I would no longer be learning during ChS.

Since then, I do not learn during ChS and follow the Chazan in the siddur.

The Wolf

Now that I think about it more, I might have some insight into this.

I have two kids who graduated from the eighth grade this year. No, they’re not twins — one is 14 and the other 13. The older one was held back by us for a year. Both have birthdays in Sep/Oct.

My son (the 14 year old) was the oldest in his class (as you can imagine). My daughter was one of the youngest. They’ve been that way for the last eight years and will continue that way through high school.

The choice to hold a kid back or not needs to be made taking the kid’s abilities and capabilities into account. Our son, we felt, needed the extra year of pre-school, and so he was held back. That was not the case with our daughter. Both of them do well — I don’t find that my son dominates his class nor do I find that my daughter had difficulty in hers.

Ultimately, each kid is different, and there cannot be a “one size fits all” answer to the question.

The Wolf

Interestingly enough, as a kid, I encountered far more discrimination AFTER becoming a ba’al teshuva than before it.

When I was in first grade, my parents were not frum. Nonetheless, my mother wanted me to go to yeshiva and so I was enrolled in HILI — an Orthodox school in Long Island. In fact, my rebbe that year was Rav Nachman Mandel. Despite the fact that we weren’t shomer shabbos, the school took me in with open arms. To my knowledge, I was the only kid in the class who wasn’t shomer shabbos. Rabbi Mandel never singled me out for it — on the contrary — he showed me the same love and caring that he showed the other kids in the school.

Fast forward to seventh grade. My parents had since split up. My mother became frum (along with my sister and I). My father remained (and to this day is) not frum.

When my mother tried to get me into a yeshiva, she encountered all sorts of problems. Most schools simply weren’t interested in welcoming a child of divorce who was a ba’al teshuva. One prominent yeshiva in Brooklyn was willing to take me on condition that I have absolutely no contact with my father. My mother turned them down flat.

Eventually, my sister and I found my way into a yeshivos (incidentally, for me, a yeshiva that was very wrong for me, but that’s another story for another time) but until she did, it was very difficult. There was definitely discrimination against her and us.

The Wolf

yitzy99: A woman’s place is in the home.

Not gonna do it. Nope. Too easy. Must…. resist….. 🙂

The Wolf

Kasha,

Instead of focusing on the choice of phrase, how about making it relevant? Do you think that today’s job market is the same as it was in the Rambam’s time? How does one earn a living in today’s world working only three hours a day — and how can be scaled to meet the needs of the general populace?

The Wolf

(I’m thinking this might even work with people/families that routinely breach tznius b’rabim — by also picketing in front of their houses after asking them to stop and they ignore it.)

And whose standard will you be applying? After all, some groups require at least 30 denier stockings. Others maintain that having the lower leg bare is okay. Some groups maintain that wearing a sheitel is not tznius (only a tichel or the like is acceptable). Others (Chabad, for example) ONLY wear sheitels and say that other methods are not tznius (since the hair sometimes shows). Other groups will maintain that snoods are not tznius. Others disallow certain colors (while others maintain that the colors are fine) and yet others tend to go for only black/white.

Whose standard do we choose? Or do we choose the most machmir standard and boycott anyone who doesn’t measure up to that?

The Wolf

It’s fairly obvious from the Gemara that there can be multiple Kohanei Gedolim at one time. There’s no reason to say that the majority of Kimchis’s sons died.*

The Wolf

(*Other than the fact that the story happened over 2000 years ago, of course.)

Stop being ridiculous. A lingerie shop is not a problem. The issue with non Tznius outer clothing is that women are being nichshol men with how they dress.

I’m not being ridiculous. Kasha keeps bringing up Kimchis, so he’s clearly talking about in the privacy of one’s own home — not when women are being nichshol other men.

The Wolf

when i’m with my grandmother, we use ‘jewish’ songs, and it’s so much more meaningful with my grandmother’s tunes.

That’s perfectly understandable. Your grandmother and her tunes must have a lot of emotional meaning for you.

The Wolf

GAW,

We’re not talking about gedarim in the home, we’re talking about whether or not a store should be allowed to sell such items. The opinion (as I understand it) that he’s expressed is that, in emulation of Kimchis, such things should not be used at all and therefore not sold (like pork).

I think we can all agree that a lingerie storekeeper has no obligation (and should not) be following up with her clientele on how these wares are used.

The Wolf

We should encourage them to want to, if they don’t already.

And if, after your encouragement, they still don’t want to cover their head every minute of the day even when halacha doesn’t require it, then what? Will you force them? Or will you let them be within the parameters of halacha?

The Wolf

So was Kimchis a fanatic who went overboard with “chumras”?

Not overboard, but set a very high standard that most people cannot (and don’t want) to reach.

Or should we encourage future Kimchis?

Not if they don’t feel they want to do that.

The Wolf

the zohar says that all tunes can be uplifted for spiritual needs

Interesting.

I’ve noticed that when we sing zemiros on Shabbos, the kids may or may not participate depending on their mood. But when I put a Shabbos Zemer into a tune they know from elsewhere, I usually get quite a bit of participation (until the novelty wears off). Personally, I think the added benefit of their eager participation in singing Shabbos Z’miros far outweighs any concerns over using secular music (which they know anyway).

You’d be surprised how well “Yom Zeh M’chubad” fits to the tune of the Chicken Dance song.

The Wolf

So (at the very least) we see how beneficial it is to keep [the much maligned today, I should add] so-called “chumras”.

I see you’re still not answering the question that was asked.

The Wolf

Kasha,

Kimchis doesn’t matter because it’s still not obligatory according to ANY rav. So, instead of answering the question that wasn’t asked, how about answering the one that was.

Specifically, since there is no question that a woman is allowed to wear whatever she likes when alone with her husband and in private, why should she not be allowed to buy any article of clothing that she can use in those circumstances?

The Wolf

Was the lesson taught by the Gemara [Yoma 47a] which relates that Kimchis had 7 sons who became High Priests because she was so modest that “the beams of her house never saw the hairs of her head” (She would always keep her hair covered even in the privacy of her own home) lost?

Does the average woman keep her hair covered all the time (meaning while sleeping, showering, etc.?) No. I’d be willing to bet that over 99% of the women in Klal Yisroel today don’t hold to such a standard. So Kimchis’s example is not relevant for most of us.

That being said, it is still clearly permitted. So answer the question — why should a woman not be allowed to purchase said clothing?

Even putting that aside, I don’t think any a frum person can rationally argue in favor of frum stores selling pure pritzus.

I can’t think of a single item of clothing that is “pure pritzus” (i.e. should not be used at any time under any circumstance). If you know of one, please elaborate.

(Shaatnez and other such considerations aside, of course).

The Wolf

Wolf:

A person who keeps Hilchos Tznius keeps it no matter where she is and it doesnt change. There arent different rules for whats Tznius at work, shabbos, the mountains, vacation…

Again, you’re missing the point.

You (or was it another poster?) want to ban the sale of clothing in frum stores based on tznius criteria.

My point was that there are articles of clothing that one would call not tznius and yet it is perfectly acceptable (in specific contexts) for a bas yisroel to wear them. So issuing a ban on those stores for carrying those items is flawed.

(That’s aside from the fact that there’s nothing to stop a woman from buying something one size small so that it’s shorter and/or tighter on her. What are you going to do — ban the same of small size clothing?)

The Wolf