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GadolHadofi > espite to the inconvenient fact that their leadership discouraged leaving Europe
I think Beltzer Rebbe admitted his mistake. Don’t have a quote handy though.
Take yourself back to Poland 1920s – after Poland restored independence at the fall of Russian Empire and after they defeated USSR attempt to re-acquire in 1920. What were Jews doing and what would be the most important thing for Jews to do at the time?
Jews were for first time in a long time empowered (previous experience was Vaad Arba Artzos under sovereign Poland in 17xx) – mostly fighting between each other and against the government – in politics, culture, religion. same things Poles themselves were doing with their first experience with democracy.
In 1939, Poles were blindsided by Nazi and Soviet armies that came with airplanes and tanks instead of cavalry. But Poles are known for their bravery, not for their learning. Would it be wise for Jews in 1920 to take seriously their responsibility as citizens of Poland, review geopolitical situation, and discover the problem? What if Chofetz Chaim met Polish president and instead of, or in addition to, crying to protect under-sanitized mikvas, presented him with an analysis of military capabilities based on clandestine contacts with german and russian jews? Given what we know by now what Jews in Israel and US are capable of, this would have been possible. We have discussions in the Gemora about Jews giving advice to various kings, including an assertion in Avoda Zorah that Jews joined Rome in defeating Greeks and rules jointly for 26 years …
None, yes, the wife is relevant. That is a reason in some sources to learn before marriage! There might be social differences – in Bavel, one could marry and then travel to learn. In EY, people stayed “in town” when they learned and thus had family responsibilities, and thus learned intensely before getting marriage.
I don’t think Rabbis saw marriages as a negative circumstance that interfered with the yeshiva schedule. If they did, they would put some takanot out, like no taking out garbage before the end of the first zman. It is just a normal thing for a normal Yid to take care of his family. R Avigdor Miller answers a question: “when is the right time to quit kollel, my wife and I have a disagreement”. Answer: whenever your wife says so, you have your obligations that she voluntarily suspended for a time.
And in today’s world, it is really not difficult to spend a couple of years half a day in one’s youth to prepare for a reasonably paying ehrliche job, whether a lawyer or a carpenter, and then work part time to support your family and be able to learn to you 120… So, as you are saying, it is hard to understand thinking of people who insist on burdening their families for the rest of their lives.
ExCTL, in our case difference between transients and family is ~ $1000/month – after taking into account annual agent fee. For $12K year, it is possible to fix a couple of things and paint (which is not required every year). Not enough families with 3+ children in this area .. and the ones that do – I think kids are more destructive to property than young adults.
I agree on only purchasing property below market rate.
Good idea on own RE agency, I’ll think about it!
Thanks for the warning on depreciation, I have some years before I worry about that.> is the best form of learning
this is not an only opinion:
R Huna, AZ 17 anyone who engages in Torah study alone is considered like one who does not have a true God.
Kuddishin 40 mishna: Anyone who is engaged in the study of Bible, and in the study of Mishna, and in the desired mode of behavior, i.e., he performs labor and generally acts in an appropriate manner, will not be quick to sin
Rabbi Tarfon answered and said: Action is greater. Rabbi Akiva answered and said: Study is greater. Everyone answered and said: Study is greater, but not as an independent value; rather, it is greater as study leads to action.
Avot 4 Rabbi Yishmael bar (son of) Rabbi Yossi said: One who studies Torah in order to teach is granted the ability to study and to teach. One who studies in order to do is granted the ability to study, to teach, to observe, and to do.JustThink > Why are you only picking on hakatan? Square root said
So, can we agree that both sentiments are inappropriate?
JustThink> This forum was made for the yeshiva world … There are plenty of news sights NOT chareidi, go enjoy them.
I understand your sentiment, but the word “yeshiva” is not reserved for specific groups of people. Netziv headed a small yeshiva in far-away Belorus – and he was sympathetic to settlers of EY. Ohr Sameach also – and he managed to get a yeshiva named after him. R Soloveitchik combined what was previously unthinkable – yeshiva & university in one institution – and even those who strongly disagreed with him, considered him a Talmid Chochom.
Something I wanted to discuss in another thread, but here it goes – Avoda Zara 4 discusses that rega of punishment appears in first 3 hours of the day – of Torah learning rather than next 3 hours of din – because Torah is Emes and this is stricter than just “din” – so Emes is important for Yeshiva.
amom, right – you should be allowed to make your profit as long as you are decent towards the others. For example, years ago I knew a generally decent Rabbi with a large family and a visible in the community but presumably low-paying position. I then found out that they were routinely hiring recently arrived to the county old Russian ladies as babysitters – for an obscenely low rate – like 2-3 times below minimal wage (which was pretty low in the state). I had to wonder whether anyone from that community was touched by the divrei Torah from the rav …
ExCT > but we do not rent to students. Too destructive and transient.
Right, but you lower your profit. Where we are, mortgages are high – mostly because houses are expensive to buy, so I don’t think we would make any profit (even taking into account appreciation) without going for highest paying renters. What I am saying is that there does not have to be a contradiction between trying to get higher profit and being decent. I see it even more in my main business – I charge high but after that I focus on what I can do for the customer. I saw and worked with businessmen who try to squeeze as much as they can from every transaction and they are not successful in a long term.
Once, I was insistently invited for an extra lunch by visiting group after we seemingly finished all business about potential partnership. After some time, I realized that the group needed us so that they can bill this lunch internally as a business expense. I lost some time on this, but timely escaped a dreadful partnter.> undisputed truth of Rav Wasserman’s writings.
I know popularity is not a sign of truth, but it is important to keep it in mind to see whether anyone is interested in certain writings. Because if nobody is, it means this school of thought did not convince many people.
With that caveat in mind, I looked up several Rabbis popularity in web search in Israel and in US for last 20 and 5 years. Adin Steinsaltz more popular than Rav Shach who is more popular than Chofetz Chaim who is more popular than R Kook who is way more popular than R Wasserman who shows at almost zero. Again, this is noto to evaluate, H’Sh value of someone’s learning, but just to note that almost nobody is looking up R Wasserman’s writings in general.
This correlates with what I asked some time ago – some talmidei chachomim are for some reason quoted for their political positions but rarely mentioned in Torah discussions in general, as if they are politicians. The fault is of course in those who quote selectively.
keith & others. I doubt it is possible to convince each other by using logical analysis of previous events. There are already articles saying that Trump had to bomb because it was his fault of withdrawing from the agreement that supposedly kept Iran “a year” away from a bomb rather than just “three months”. There are so many events and possible explanations that any normal (that is biased) person can find explanation he favors unless he is trained in unbiased thinking, such as Socratic method or Gemorah. I actually once made a small experiment testing cognitive bias in one of the examples from Kahneman/Twersky. My conclusion (on a very small set) was that those who had PhDs and who learnt Gemorah had smaller bias. I did not know those who do both at the time :).
So, a possible way to unbiased conclusions – to see how decision-makers themselves think. I brought an idea that Bibi favored Trump. Here is a proof from WaPo article about a zoom between Pres Biden and congress progs in July 2024 showing that Biden also thought that Bibi is against him: xxx asked the president about the ongoing Israeli bombardment of Gaza, pointing out that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not seem to be listening to him. The president took umbrage at the criticism. He said Netanyahu hoped Trump would be reelected and was an impediment to any ceasefire deal.
There is in the news that the mayor dem candidate might be investigated whether his support for terrorism (at the time?) may be grounds to losing his citizenship. This is like a ger who is later found to be insincere in his conversion.
If he stripped now, Cuomo will become primary winner? If later, then not. If after he is elected, I guess a new election.
coffee, chatgpt gave several additional sharper terms, going both left and right, but I decided to settle on the first suggestions so that we can fairly compare. It seems to reflect average media perception rather than any deep analysis.
common, you are not right. IQ was growing ~ 30 points in 20th century, about 3-5 points every decade. From about 1995-2000, IQ seems to be declining 2-3 points per decade. I don’t think chatGPT will change the trend, it will just make it less important whether your IQ is 80 or 120 – you’ll write a similar report using chatGPT. Below 80 and you won’t use chatgpt and above 120, you’ll write better than chatgpt, at least for now.
YYA > Actually, the Chareidim are the ones who (at least try to) listen to Gedolei Yisroel, whereas the Meraglim did the opposite
Neither meraglim nor Yehoshua & Kalev listened or not listened to gedolim. They were sent by Moshe on a mission and they approached that mission differently. They all were responsible for their own behavior, not the way they listened. One exception – Kalev did listen – he listened to Avos by going to Hevron. As it came up in my recent class. Yehoshua and Kalev represent two Jewish tradition. Yehoshua follows Moshe and his following revelation, and Kalev following Avos, esp Avraham, in standing up for emes (Avraham for Hashem in general, and supporting people in trouble, Kalev – for EY).
SQRT, was it the same female? single then, widowed now, back in shidduchim?
qwerty, Lubavitcher Rebbe quotes Rambam. So, sit down and learn some Rambam with your local chabadnik. Don’t have to start with controversial chabad things, make start with some moreh nevuhim.
yankel> that he will even stop a soldier reporting for duty in his Arrow 3 anti missile unit .
It is easier. Iron Dome does not hit projectiles that go into no-man land. If someone does not want to rely on Iron Dome, they should report their coordinates to Tzahal and get tax exemption for paying for iron dome. I am proposing the name of this system “makom she ein ish”
ard> where jews fight back, WHEN directed by daas torah
Who directed Yiftach? People who rejected him earlier. The only daas Torah here seems to be in the midrash that when his dedicated object ended up being his daughter, Yiftach and Pinchas refused to go to each other, expecting the other to make the first move. Ben Gurion at least went to see Chazon Ish.
YYA> Germany in the 1920’s Jews had more rights and opportunities than anywhere else in Europe.
And in US. Fritz Haber (German Noble winner for inventing fertilizer process and saving billions of lives, and forgotten because he invented poison gas for Germany and killed thousands) visited Atlantis city in c. 1910 and was shocked to see “no dogs and Jews” signs – even when he was told this does not affect him personally as a civilized Jew. He said that nothing like that could happen in Germany …
But another question – we have Gemora from Bavel, Rambam from Muslim Spain, Shulchan Aruch from Poland, Litvaks and Chabad from Russian empire. What do we have form NYC? R Avigdor Miller, Chaim Berlin, YU? Jewish bankers and lawyers?
One sefer muses that Jews were sent to different countries to pick up different middos – scholastics from Germany, survival skills from Russians, etc. For America, he chose “scale” – from McDonalds chain to large yeshivos. Not really a middah. but a method. and “large” is not same as “great”. Maybe general uniform education creates some quality like synchronized swimming does (I am told).
I gave chatgpt several historical examples, and asked to continue:
Trump – the Disruptive
Obama – “the Eloquent”
Biden – “the Steady”
GW Bush the Decider
Bibi – “the Survivor”ExCTL > Long term good tenants are the key to financial sucess as a landlord, turnover is a killer.
Your system looks pretty good and ehrliche. I presume your rentals are in CT residential area. Many people have a little different situation when renting out in metropolitan areas where most renters are moving in/out every year. I am not complaining – as this takes more effort but also pays better. It becomes harder to be nice to renters – as they move out anyway 🙂 I guess it increases a sechar for being nice. So, you got to go a fine line. We usually pay for the first case new tenants do something stupid, just pointing them to the lease item they violated. Some interpret this as weakness and repeat the same thing next week. We then tell them what the repairs they need to do and, as a favor to them, we can recommend a cheaper repairman. This usually works. This is a business extension of great Jewish poet Henrich Heine musing in his dairies – “it is impossible to live if you don’t trust anyone. but if you trust everyone all the time, you’ll be taken advantage of. You can live reasonably if you simply do not let the same person cheat you second time”. I don’t think Heine thought of broken fixtures, but it seems to work.
Baruch > Israel is better off perhaps with someone that yields no power on decision making.
What do you mean? There are situations where indeed having a deadlock helps. For example, when either US or Israeli government is trying to do something wrong … most often happens when the government is trying to do “too much” as it is “natural” for politicians to pay off their voters with our money. But in foreign policy, US president has a lot of power and of he himself does not yield it, then people around him do. So, we get government by unelected officials, see Kafka’s Castle. Most of Obama/Biden policies were driven by people who did not have experience beyond being government officials and their policies were driven by the textbooks they were taught. During 202 elections, Biden tried to separate himself, putting articles in Jewish papers that he was the only one in O- administration who viewed Israel historically – not as an “occupier” – but remembering what environment Israel is in – from 1973 etc. I think this had some truth to it, as was he is supportive reaction towards Israel (and towards Ukraine) early on. But he clearly was not able to break through his helpers in a long term and he would not support, forget about initiate, any bold actions.
R Mintz book is
זקניך יאמרו לך
Publisher
ספרי עץ החיםakuperma,
early sephardim were coming here, running away for religious freedom from Spanish/catholic countries.
19th-20th century immigrants were also coming for more freedom. You can listen to tapes of interviews on Ellis Island website. Some say that the immigration officers asked about professions and directed them to the corresponding guild or trade union. Another Jewish lady describes how her family was saving money in Poland trying to send her to school, and here there was a free public high school … this is not to deny problems with shabbat and observance in general… was it the right idea for rabbis to advocate against going to Amerika except in some cases? Given the midrash that Yaakov sent Yehudah to establish yeshiva in Mitzrayim, maybe there should have been more strong rabinim coming early on? this is, of course, monday morning quarterbacking.Baruch > simple question. Would we have been better off with Nikki Haley
Not sure. Republicans had a pro-business anti-commie candidate Mitt Romney – and he was accused of all kind of silly things, including being laughed at for saying that Russia is a threat. He was such a gentleman that he did not fight back, hoping voters will figure it out. Well, they did not. Haley might have done better, but still similar. Trump is trying a lot of things (that others would not try) and reverses when things do not go right – as any good businessman does. As long as he does teshuva based on this feedback, I am fine with him trying his ideas. Many of the things are hard to evaluate before some time passes. But some are clear – his policy on China from first term was not reversed by Biden; his pro-oil/gas and increased NATO spending is working and accepted, at least on paper so far, by Europeans. On June 11, he did not want Israel to bomb; on June 12, he agreed; on June 13 he planned his own attack. This is fast enough.
qwert> Vin > we don’t follow Rambam in our world.
You could have told him that his Rebbe was learning Rambam and so should he.
Another WSJ article says specifically when Bibi wanted to bomb Iran – 2010,11,12 – Obama times.
I take back my suggestion that Bibi chose to do the operation under Trump. Latest reporting says that Bibi was trying to start this operation for some unspecified time period, clearly during Biden but maybe even during Obama times, but he was not supported by others in the security cabinet and haeds of agencies because of (1) fear of Iranian retaliation (2) concerns that US was not supportive. So, my main point that Israel preferred to do the op under Trump still stands, but it was not Bibi but others who were not sure of support under Ds. Bibi seemingly considered the attack itself more important.
Baruch, the nature of US politics is that there are two strong parties that each, by necessity, unite everyone on one side into a party. An alternative model is in Israel and many European countries where there are multiple parties representing different shades, combination, and divisions among multiple dimensions – so we have a part of anti-religious socialists, national religious socialists, charedi socialists – and then they fight it out in knesset as groups, maneuvering for each particular issue.
So, in American system, as long as you have a strong center, you have to incorporate all extremists on your side – while also not losing the “center” aka “undecided”. So, I am not denying that there is a certain danger in the extreme wing of Rs. And I see the danger not in Trump himself – who repeatedly showed that he is willing to change his positions to more moderate the moment he sees problems, but in people who will talk same language as T but then are not capable of coming with innovative solutions and of responding to reality as well as he is. We seem to agree with this latter part. Note that all the hysterics around T’s words and actions increase the chance that someone unworthy will come after – because the public is desensitized to the criticism, seeing how meaningless it is. So, for the good of the country, limit your criticism.
there are a couple of articles in WSJ looking at recent experience in Austin TX where even progressives went for relaxing rules and encouraging building more instead of rent control – and successfully lowered housing prices in the last several years. TX-wide rule forbidding rent control was helpful here to nudge them in the right direction
One lesson from NY and other such places – if problems remain unresolved, then there will be someone offering a socialist solution. Places where it is easy to build do not elect communists to establish rent control. Historically, this is why USA had very weak socialist movements 100+ years ago comparing to most of Europe – as many problems were resolved otherwise.
none2> If you find the perfect tenant and he can’t afford 50 dollers one month would it kill you to wave that
Of course. But a lot of laws make it difficult to give discounts to good tenants – you might get accused of various discriminations. I believe Trump’s father was accused of something similar: when he had apartments for rent (maybe subsidized ones?), he quickly advertised them in russian-language newspapers, so that recently arrived russian jews would come before less desirable renters.
relevant Gemoras
Bava Metzia 40b – Rav Yehuda was selling oil and sediment, not wine.Bava Basra 90-91 Shmuel (R Yehuda’s teacher) one can not profit more than 1/6th
plus payment for labor and selling expensesRambam: this limit is set by Beis Din and is for essentials only (oil, wine, flour).
Shulchan Aruch (CM 231:20)overall discussion is that 1/6th is enforced only under some circumstances – having a beis din regulating prices and essentials
and when all grocers do not keep to the limit, one does not have to.:SMA (38 and Prishah 26 DH d’Chi): When there is no Beis Din and everyone else transgresses Chachamim’s words not to profit more than a sixth, one who fears Hash-m need not be careful about this. If not, when he finished selling cheaply, all others will sell for a high price!
AAQ – I am not sure SMA works in current markets: Walmart shows you the power of low profits: one who sells cheaper can order more merchandize and become as rich as Waltons.
gadol > I’ll try to remember that principle when negotiating the purchase of a $500 Calabrian esrog or $50/lb box of hand-made shmurah matzoh.
Absolutely. Buying this would be lifnei ever. They would not be selling them if you are not
I used to buy from a couple of the talmidei chochomim like in the gemora whose prices were 30,40,50… The older one is already niftar, and the younger one went to another town to be a rov.
I took kids to the store to teach them some advanced math: record all prices: 30,40,45, 50, 70, 100, 150 compute median 50, add 20% for hidur mitzva, buy $60 esrog.
Lernt, there are cases where it is possible or even necessary to inform, such as when a crime was committed. I know someone who had to ask a shaila and he was told that he should truthfully answer all questions from the police about people in his congregation…
So, presumably, this crowd feels a religious obligation to do what they do. So, one aveira leads to another …
wtsp > If one thinks that differing from the norm is unacceptable in Yiddishkeit, he is right and he is wrong.
– If one differs from Torah Shebichsav, Torah Shebaal Peh, from Halacha, from the guidance and instructions of Gedolei Hador, then that is completely and entirely – not only unacceptable, but – wrong.
– If one differs in how they fulfill Torah Shebichsav, Torah Shebaal Peh, or Halacha, in a manner that aligns with Ratzon Hashem, then not only is that NOT unacceptable, it is welcomed and admired and accepted in every way.Wtsp, right. None2 has a point complaining about pressure to conform. R Twersky writes that industrial age lead to lots of progress by uniform production and it spilled over into spiritual area and in education, in particular. So, it became easy to “train” lots of students with the same opinions, disregarding individual views, and it is unfortunate. AAQ adds that recent tech allows for individualization – even this CR room let’s people easily meet others with different opinions and have a (somewhat) rational discussion. I presume that most posters here will be in trouble if they talk like that in their local shul.
mazal > Unfortunately it will be very hard for Women to stop wearing these immodest, very natural looking wigs.
Right, it would be good to have a way for normal people to stay within halocha without extreme difficulties, as too much strictness turns people away.
I am not seeing any responses to normalize hats again. Nice-looking hats are more affordable and easier for the wearer, and they create an easy marker for who is married.Reports say that recent college grads who are still roaming around the City were decisive to this result. So, every Yid should go out, find a college grad, and give them a sefer about communism, such as “Black book of communism”
Qwerty, right, I have no problem with that opinion. In fact, I have a TV myself but I do not have a service to hook it up. Is this maris ayn?
To Nope and to elevate this discussion: there is a sefer out from R Chaim Mintz, Oorah founder, with his personal notes from R Moshe, R Ruderman and several other Rabbonim. I did not see anything about TVs yet, but lots of other interesting stories. One is that R Moshe did not want to respond to a rov who published a sefer against R Moshe psak on multiple issues – because R Moshe did not want to take parnosa away from that rov. Hope we treat those we disagrees with – with the same kindness.
Baruch > isolationists have never been more strong in the Republican party than today
maybe “in a hundred years” – US closed borders to immigrants in 1924, I recall. But Trump’s “fault” is mostly in moving this crowd from D- or none to R-, resulting in his winning of two elections. We just saw that he is capable of acting internationally, even while within maga boundaries of not engaging in a long conflict. Yes, there is danger that a true maga leader will come after. But the alternative is/was – a smooth talking dems who promise something to every voter in order to win; and we saw how they govern – not good for the country and for the world. As I mentioned before, Bibi clearly showed his preference – he could have pushed the operation into January if he hoped for more support for the previous administration, especially after elections.
akuperma > if he sets it too low he will have more people wanting to rent than he can deal with, plus he may have too little revenue to stay in business
Furthermore, often if you price too low, you may get questionable renters who may stop paying or who will try to push for other payouts, such as costs of repairing things they break. If you charge more, you’ll get people who either/or earn more and are not able/interested in fighting for every penny.
Zushy, shoin, don’t establish a state, just move to those areas under current governments that are there. I am sure they’ll understand you.
1654 – when Shearith Israel was founded.
> note that in New York City many if not most frum Jews rent rather than own their housing
who owns those buildings? maybe other Jews who moved to suburbs themselves?
Indeed, one of the talmidei chachamim in Bavel was in business of retail wine sales. He would buy a barrel, say for $100 and then sell 10 bottles for $10 each. Gemora asks – this does not make sense as there is no profit. Answer: he also had sediment left that he will sell to other businesses for small profit. The lesson is – ehrliche business is about having some profit – not too much but also so that the business can exist.
I am selling my midtown properties.
TV is a box capable of transmitting various channels. I do not understand how you can get one definite universal answer from a Rav about it.
Is one allowed to watch financial news if he is a financial analyst? I presume yes.
Are there shows that one is not allowed to watch? I did not watch them lately, but I presume that there are still some.
Is one capable to keep to the allowed channels? depends on a person and on a family.
Is it a good public policy for the community? this is a question for a Rav
Is one allowed to pay $100 for the cable TV if he can access the same information via already paid internet? Definitely no, switch cable off and send $100 to tzedokah.qwerty > The three contestants had to try to guess who was telling the truth.
This comes up at the end of maseches Shevuos. We do not like having two contradictory oaths that makes it clear that one of them is a liar. When I see a threat, khm, where it is obvious that at least half of the posters are not honest, I just lose interest. Maybe stick to a discussion of things that are verifiable by all sites and then it can lead to a productive exchange of opinions.
Avram to me> This is not fair. Nowhere in the letter did the author advocate confronting women about anything.
He implicitly does – he asks whether women understand what they are causing and he is looking for some community response. So, I took his thoughts to the “logical” conclusion. Again, I myself, am pro-hat for women and anti-hat for men.
Gadol, I am glad you were using your time productively conducting all kind of experiments on seduction. You just need to be careful translating results from general society to an observant community. People who are used to semi-nude women around them may not have any interest in hairstyles, but brothers of BY students might.
Suggestion above of a hat over a sheitel is something some tzadeikos are doing already. But we also need a practical solution for beinonos, who need to wear something daily to their law offices. How about nice hats without sheitel? 100 years ago a hat was considered tzanua and a sheitel was not. I know the OP will start grabbing around the hat looking for a tefach here or there, but can we not be so uptight? If this worked for some of our grandmothers who didn’t have access to hair from Indian temples. This is akin to throwing away your grandpa’s kiddush cup because it doesn’t measure up to Chazon Ish.
Ard, crazy was part of Trumps sneaky campaign to misdirect Iranian agents reading ywn into believing that there will be no strike. He is currently posting on rt messing up rusim whilst their emunah in maga