Always_Ask_Questions

ubiquitin, thanks for the reference. I looked up that OpEd of Feb 18, 2016. Mcconell and Grasley make several arguments. First, legal argument that Art 2 Sec 2 grants the Senate power to provide or withhold consent.

Then, they give a political argument why they should wait, and a significant part of that argument is that Pres Obama’s being a lame duck whose policies were already rejected by voters in 2014. Wiki on 2014 elections uses the word “largest” 4 times for R- gains …. Part of that rejection means – in plain language – Senate is in R- hands and they have power to withhold consent. Then, they go with arguments similar to yours, quoting D-s, including Obama, Biden, Hillary, saying the opposite to what they say now – ein ledavar sof, of course.

I think their argument is not inconsistent with what they have now – R-s had losses in the House, but not in the Senate and, in practical terms, kept ability to grant their consent. And Trump is at the end of his first term, so even the “lame duck” part of the political argument does not apply.

I don’t see that this rises above general self-serving arguments in Congress on both sides. I think the future court packing part of the argument is more interesting.

@ubiquitin >> Republicans didnt hold any hearings because they said “no nominations in an election year”
Dec 2016 letter from 11 Senators (R) to the Majority leader says simply that Constitution gives Senate their powers of consent and does not require them to schedule a vote. Thta is, Consitution let’s them do that and they will use their powers. They do say that such nomination before election did not happen from 1930s and did not happen with divided government from 1880s.

So, this position is NOT inconsistent with voting when they want to. This is also NOT inconsistent with Ds planning to increase number of Justices. At the same time, declining to answer what they want do and declining to explain who will pay for several hundred Justices that we will have after a couple of rounds, is not smart strategy and may be the factor that costs Dems an election. They way cloth-wiped servers were to Hillary.

@OrechDin. I am also an idealist, we are just framing is differently. Your ideal seems to be that everyone has a vote. My ideal is that only knowledgeable people with good character make important decisions. I appreciate that both ideas are important.

Practically speaking, a politician can either morph/present his ideas to appeal to more people, or to motivate more people who like his ideas to vote. I think currently the first path is easy to abuse – politicians can compute which marginal voters they can appeal to with bribes (I’ll pay for your college or social security, Southern Strategy) or with falsehoods. I think it is healthy when politicians have to motivate masses of voters. We should not use government money to help them mailing ballot applications. Parties can work on that on their own. We are also giving party operatives two months to go knock on the doors and “help” people fill out ballots.
‘
PS Theoretically speaking, we can establish a system that achieves both – you vote and pass an unbiased test, mixture of IQ, math, and civics. Only computer knows whether you passed the test and your vote counted. Maybe, you can have a quote – each state gets one smart senator from top 10% of the vote and one stupid from the rest. Senators were supposed to be that layer elected by elite – elected by the educated legislature. We can surely use technology now to achieve the same goal.

@Pashut >> People should not be calling out Rabbonim for not condemning these things

So, we collected several rulings in this thread that call for listening to medical authorities. This is sufficient reason to ask whether others agree, or why they disagree. Given the medical effect on all of us (my local schools were closed based on someone who traveled to NY area) and Hillul Hashem that affects us all, I think it is reasonable to ask for information.

@RebEliezer, you are not being fair. Trump is advocating for trying anything possible while dealing with nameless civil servants that want to follow established rules. Half of the things that Trump proposed end up being useful. This is good risk taking statistically, but maybe not politically, where he can be easily blamed for everything. Mike-Kamala debate had a revealing example of such risk-taking that become easy political target: Pence reminded of foreign policy achievements – ISIS, embassy, Suleimani, that everyone said will lead to grave consequences. Kamala replied that Iranian “retaliated” by shooting missiles near US soldiers and Trump panned resulting health effects as “headache”.

I would go with economic freedom. If economy and defense are good, then we can build our life and hopefully influence others too.
On the social issues, we should hope that Communists and Christians continue arguing with each other. We might not like if one of these groups wins over the country completely.

@RebEliezer, re:Rav Weiss letter. This is good indeed. So far, first response here is that the Rav may be under pressure from the evil government, but at least we should follow them in shul.

There are lots of halachik references that maybe some people here can unpack. I see at the end of 4th par to Rambam’s halakhot rotzeach – is this about considering an uncareful person a murderer?

There is also a last line in the teshuva that I understand intellectually but have hard time to follow:
>> and most important – increase brotherhood and friendship, run away from Machloket,
>> and help your brothers, and there is no bigger vessel for Hashem’s bracha than shalom

so, you ask someone nicely to put the mask on; then you move to another side of the shul; then you comment to your neighbor passive-aggressively that he should move away from that guy without the mask; then you point to his zipper as if it is unzipped. This does not work .. how do you increase brotherhood after that?

Pashut – a good point, but the argument is about a second-hand report of an overheard conversation. Sometimes I hear about an elderly Rav nodding to a question. Maybe he was just sneezing, lo aleinu. Hard to have an informed discussion.

I am sure there are people here who have great teachers. I suggest you ask questions and, when it is possible, post the information here for discussion. I am aware of several letters from Moetses and teshuvot from R Meir Twersky that could be a starting point for discussion.

bk613. I agree re:psychiatric effects. In fact, I am not sure any of us here is sane :). This underscores that we need to be as rational as we can to sort out lifestyle. So, people who need to work outside and those who need to have children at schools would have priority to move more. Those who have luxury to work from home and teach kids at home – should stay there. Still, many people seem to have psychological need to get to “normal” – whether it is going to a packed bar or davening in a full shul. How do we figure out – who can learn musar and re-direct his efforts from shul packing to teaching his own kids, and who gets a medical OK to go?

Ps of course, it is catch-22: if not going to shul makes you crazy, then you are not obligated to daven until you feel better.

@rightwriter >> being forced to wear something throughout the generations to distinguish us

Don’t worry – 200 years from now, Jews in Chinese yeshivas will be all wearing masks “because our ancestors oere them in NYC”

se2015. I agree positive rates are not a precise statistics. But it is an early predictor. Overall excess mortality would be a better measure – but it is available maybe a month later after the deaths, or 1.5 months after the first infections. You can go back over last several months and compare excess mortality with positive rates 1-2 months before – and see if positive rates predict mortality.

There are other ways to get early predictions – google searches for “I am coughing”, wifi thermometers, but I am afraid best predictor would be population activity level, especially inside (schools, bars, shuls), and percentage of people wearing masks …

I am genuinely curious: I see many posts with people declaring great insights into public health data, overriding public health experts and potentially contributing to killing people in their own communities and Hillul Hashem. How do you make sure your analysis is correct? Is there any way you can – for your own sake – test your ability to make judgments here? For example, do you have an advanced degree in public health, statistics, biology? This is not a necessary condition, of course. But if not – could you google online, for example, an advanced test in statistics and see if you can pass it?

To start the discussion, here is a multiple choice question:
You go to a street and ask two random people: does the bus N 5 pass on this street. One person said yes, one – no.

What is the probability of bus N 5 passing on this street:
A. 50% B. More than 50% C. less than 50%.

@Hakatan re: questioning that someone who witnessed Hillul Hashem can call it as such without having a smicha.

I heard directly from a community Rav who stopped a black-hat person on shabbat without a mask and explained to him that this is Hillul Hashem. The person replied that whose who want to avoid him are free to walk around.

@rational, I agree. Seems like American Jews assimilated into free speech and separation of powers – even those who do not learn this at school. This never ended well, of course – with Rome, Spain, Germany … I think we should be both grateful and mindful at the same time.

Syag,
could you help me understand how this 2 positions can be reconciled:

1) dont tell me that I need a mask, it is my private issue
2) high infection in my community is due to overcrowding

you expressed each of these positions clearly, thanks. I just do not see how this machloket between
Syag and Syag can be reconciled.

Syag. All I am saying: if you live in small apartments, you should be more cautious. You listed multiple reasons thru several threads why you should not be more cautious.

Other poor community you mention consist of people who work in risky conditions and have low education.

A community that learns Talmud should do better.

Syag, apartment sizes do matter, indeed. Hard to judge which part of the problem is due to human factors and which due to environment. I can understand other locations mostly by newspaper photos. Some photos are zoomed in on someone and it is hard to say whether they are representative of general behavior. Still, I saw many wide-area Israeli and NY photos showing many people in masks, and many without; on the beard; on the mouth only; taken down to talk to a neighbor. Is it different from non-religious Israelis and Americans? not sure. But why should we hold religious Jews to such a low standard?

@GH, I agree that sometimes this bracha does not feel authentic. Indeed, I once witnessed how an elderly congregant broke down on Yom Kippur in some country during this prayer “Why do we say this? They are murderers.. They killed my family” …

At the same time, as we all choose to live in this country (we are all free to leave, right?), I think we should acknowledge it. Thankfully, we do not have to say “adoneinu” as both my Russian and Austrian machzorim say, but why not wish “Hashem give wisdom to …”. Should also apply to governors, unless you are still voting Federalist.

We had more difficult cases.
Look up old machzorim. I have mahzor from one side of my family with a prayer for Kesar Nikolai Alexandrovich (and a named list of his wife and children) and from another – for Franz Jozef.

I don’t think one would be allowed to have both in his house during WW1…