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Gadol > Where does the OP say the neighbor feeding the firds is a yid
OP said that he is hevrusa with the neighbor’s husband. Maye I misread or they are learning mitzvos bnei Noach. Non-jews indeed would not need to show concern about the neighbor by dina demalchusa, but some do. Maybe then need to think how to approach the neighbor in a good way.
> His husband says that they’re accepted
This sounds sad, but do you actually have evidence beyond the obviously posul person?
Dont get angry at Jackk – he is simply channeling what he reads. some other smarter people found how to misdirect a losing discussion about migrants into a discussion about DeSantis. I would suggest not to respond. Jackk has previously admitted that he has no problem posting one-sided arguments the way non-Jews do, aka freedom of speech, why would we encourage him to do more by responding? This is pure lifnei ever, and maybe then jackk will start posting something more responsible.
> How I came to have such views will have to remain an enigma. Though, I think, you can decipher it if you try.
An admission by a Russian troll?! As you might know Nazi “enigma” cipher was cracked, and so we eat leeks in the honor of your organization.
back to history: ok, I understand that area of Moscow was somewhere between old “Rus” of Kyiv and Novgorod – was it part Rus or more Ganza, not sure. How does that support Moscow’s claim to be in charge of Kyiv? It would rather support Kyiv’s claim on Moscow (and many other Russian and Belorus cities). If the claim is simply “one culture”, “one nation”, similar to Nazi’s claim on Austria, Sudeten, ..
then maybe Moscovites should propose a weak and fair union? I understand they do have some organization that is joined by their satellites. I am talking about genuine partnership where Ukraine is an equal partner, like early EU. Would this make more sense that bombing the most Russified areas of Ukraine?!Also, maybe pass to your Russian friends – they do not understand how voting works. They annexed most of the pro-Russian part of Ukraine 10 years ago. That means. remaining voters are more anti-Russian and will elect an anti-Russian government. I am not even mentioning those who changed their views.
mdd, I do read some history, and I do know Russia’s view. I am specifically curious about how you came to this view. I presume that you are an observant Jew with some Torah sensibilities rather than a member of oprichnina or something.
PS I hope Normans will not find out in time that queen of England is niftar and re-occupy it!
> Esav soneh Yaakov does not mean Yaakov should become a little more like Esav to make him less hateful.
Not annoying Esav is the original Yaakov’s tactic. Maybe we need to look at the context: volunteering without yarmolka to a after-office beer party is one thing; representing a client in front of a jury is different.
CS > Avira was called MR
Just had in ketubot another Rav sending a message to R Huna addressing him as “Huna” – and gets severely dressed down. In my view, denying someone’s Torah learning is a bigger insult, especially coming from a “frum” person.
Again, I do respect your sensitivity and I am on your side. I also do not tell people “trust me because I am an Orthodox Jew”.
On a personal note, I am not big on titles, and never introduce myself as Dr. AAQ, just firstname. Some people for some reason call me Mr. AAQ, and that is OK. But one person with whom we had some disagreements always calls me “Mr. AAQ”. I was wondering whether I can respond with “Mr. X” instead of R’ and whether I should do it publicly. You seem to suggest that this would be fine.
Mdd > know more about the situation there and the historical background thereof than an average person in the US, Canada or the UK.
that’s pretty modest of you. Average US person may not be able to find Ukraine on the map. So, it sounds like you have some inside info. So, could you describe in more detail what sources/info helped you come to your position. I am not so much interested in view of Petlura, discussing history is always fun, but rather what made you think that all this history justifies Russian invasion. And, again, I understand your position, I am curious what was your path to that.
when you discuss tuition, you need to consider different groups.
For people who qualify the discounts, they might offer you a competitive price. I don’t know about YU but, from what I read, even small colleges hire consultants who use statistical modeling to predict a chance for every student that he will accept their offer and what the class composition and total revenue is expected.For those who don’t qualify for discounts, the full price at some point stops making any sense. I find it ironic that I can not “afford” to send my kids to schools that were ready to take me for free. Maybe I should go to kollel until all kids graduate.
smerel > apply for separate accreditation
a fair point. Any credential requirements indeed increase monopolization (and possibly quality, of course).
> Anyone seriously considering going to YU knows the difference
this is less convincing: as if we are not really fooling you, as you can see through it. But the above argument is probably the explanation.
Still, a food for thought from one of Rebbes. When, during a public meeting, a chosuve head of a choshuve mosad invited him into a joint effort, he (somewhat) politely declined, saying that he is in full control of his own initiatives and can vouch for them and prefer it to stay that way.
Syag, I already quoted NJ, IL, TX foodstamp websites and some federal docs (maybe it got lost in mod’s spam?) – TX site is full of references to need to work. Seems like actual fed programs is currently less work-focused based on changes a couple of years ago, I do not remember details already.
Marxist > Ask any college career advisor.
You would be better off asking an employer, like me. Demand that YU refund the club money and use this money to join a club of your choice. Most colleges spend more than 50% on “overhead” (I know precise numbers for those with which I did business), this is not counting wasted classes… Most reasonable professors lament that their colleges spent so much money on buildings and other nonsense. What if a Jewish college shows rachmonus on Jewish parents and decrease extras and tuition. Will they lose customers? Probably. So, then it is “our” fault for demanding these clubs, not the university’s.
These discussions about forwardig, lack of blankets is stam silly. This is a country where anyone can order blanket delivery overnight or even within one hour. any place should be able to house 100 unexpected visitors. Shtetls did it every shabbos.
if someone can take them over mexican border, kal vehomer, someone else can take them over NY state border.
> the end result of your advice to “Lakewood” would be a tremendous loss of Torah.
I am not giving advice to “Lakewood”. I can’t even as it is a makom where one of my Rebbes live and I am too scared of him. Even more, I am not questioning, and very much in support, of all post-WW2 yeshiva activities that saved tremendous number of people from assimilation and other yeridot. I am thinking about current state of affairs. If some of my thinking has validity that would lead to the next question – how do we correct the ship without losing the good that is there.
And this is not a new question. Even way back when I was looking for a shidduch, a Lakewood shadchanit was describing to me about girls figuring out that they can become software developers by going to small local colleges, enabling them to support their husbands learning. I don’t think that was a marketing guzma because I was not looking for that.
Avram > What makes income based benefits different?
First problem – many, maybe not all, income based benefits require or at least presume that the person gets them only if/when he is not able to find work. Details seem to vary by program, presence of children, state, and year, but this is how society generally understands income-based benefits.
2nd problem – Y’D, not just Rambam, paskening not to take non-Jewish charity with wording “not to depend on people”. See precise loshon above.
I am pretty convinced that these questions deserve consideration for specific people and for communities, when it becomes public knowledge, and that answers may be complex and not the same for everyone. I would like to see some sources that explain the permissive position. So far, I found a short line from R Henneman, and a Vaad responsa that we agreed is not a serious source. At least, these mean that there is a question to answer. Please help me with the sources.
Mu inartful/exaggerated communist comparison was about people taking funds and mis-directing them to the purposes the givers did not intend. Government openly making decisions is a normal indirect democracy. We ain’t greeks.
So, there will be less clubs, more time for learning and training for parnosah, less tuition (?), so more time for father to learn. Only good comes out of it.
You can put an internship instead of a club onto your resume. I don’t know who hires based on clubs and, frankly, would not advise going to such an employer.
> YU, is at most, a b’dieved for those that would have done even less without it.
I know a family whose kids went to a moderni school and they went to YU while others were going to Ivy and looking down at them. In this case, it was definitely l’hatchila. It is a sacrifice for someone who can get into a high-end academic school to go to YU instead – both academically and financially.
I am not sure how it would be b’dieved. If someone can’t get to best schools, he can get to a comparable quality at way cheaper and easier to access places. Please explain.
> his king is a figure head without any power of life and death,
yes, it looks like he is less deserving a brocha than a governor … although it looks like he can declare a war and that involves life & death.
Also, do we say brocha on a ship captain – he hold life & death during the trip. Not sure about now, but surely did before telegraph and internet.
Esrog – $100 or under or way over?
Tell people the price or just keep the tag on?
Increase the price with inflation or keep the traditional price?
Esrog for boys – same price as for Tati as chinuch or cheaper or more expensive? Make him pay?
Esrog for girls?Maybe Republicans should be more positive when doing that. Explain to everyone that they send them to good states, warn those states when the buses are on the way (or almost there) – or are they afraid that Dems will not let them out of the bus? Make sure the driver gets out of the bus with keys. Maybe have a remote control to stop it from moving.
step 1: pls define zip codes or districts with large jewish population and what kind of population it is
step 2: find several most comparable non-jewish areas in terms of geographycould you guys be more specific with numbers? It is an interesting discussion and you are waving your hands around. You need to bring specific numbers, see what they mean, possibly adjust for family and location, etc. You will not convince each by who shouts LOUDER (or anyone else)
> Notre Dame … Southern Baptist Church …
those are not in Manhattan. Avira is right – going against the environment is difficult.
ujm > we both know that there’s more cash income not reflected in the statistics.
I thought we were discussing religious communities. According to many authorities, the above means such people are not religious and should not be counted for this discussion.
> self-sufficiency of the Amish community is a key element as the court
I did not read the case, just the editorials about it and those also think that self-sufficiency was the crucial part of that decision.
> they can still be earning more INDIVIDUALLY,
this is a very good point. I am sure there are ways to include child raising as part of the value to the society.
> The Yeshivos do not have income information of their graduated students.
I quoted some of those recently from the data they submitted to the Dept of Ed
Sorry, so hispanic is not inner. I am not a boke. Anyway, I am more concerned about Jewish school, how do we show their quality. Your kids are there.
Do you know of any fairly administered standardized exams in any of your schools? I know you can send a kid to a public school to do evaluation, but that is mostly psychology and abilities rather than knowledge. Maybe anyone here wants to do some online tests for their kids if the school did not test them?
Syag > your comments are stated so subtly yet are so distructive
I see. I understand that you disagree with some of my conclusions. Be assured that my comments are “subtle” not because I am trying to trick you, but because I am genuinely concerned for the community and appreciate at least some of the arguments against my stated positions. Whenever someone brings another argument, I am trying to process it.
how many account do you have parroting same statements and why are mod asleep at the wheel?!
what does it mean that all these colleges are “affiliated”, “under umbrella”!? If you are creating a brand name and then use it for marketing, you should be applying some standard. Otherwise, it is gnevas daas. They should at least state: this is yeshiva/touro-affiliated but not following xyz.
Maybe all these colleges and sub-colleges stand on their own. I am very suspicious of any educational institutions expanding beyond their core mission. If you are a true non-profit, you don’t need to expand.
wearing a headcover would be one thing. It is mefurash from the Gemora that _married_ men were supposed to wear a sudar (at least Talmidei Chachamim in Bavel).
Some other changes are documented in Gemora. Kesuba was assessed only on real estate. Later on, it was also assessed on movables. This confirms that “original” is not necessarily the “correct” one, especially when there was a beis din ruling to change it.
Days of the week when we do weddings changed a number of times.
Hopefully, if s/he/them sticks around, he’ll improve his manners from the rest of us (NOT:)
CS, I do the same re:kippah as you do (except I was not elected or worked for civil service, you seem to have an interesting career), but somehow I do not have such visceral reaction to those who do not, even in our, supposedly more tolerant, times. Esav soneh Yaakov is still the halocha and some people feel it more than others. In some cases, it might be a menchlich thing to do. Say, you are a lawyer representing a client and the jury may be negatively affected by your yarmolka. I would think that your responsibility to the client would be to not wear it. Or, you are a doctor in an area, where people think Jews have horns. You may find that patients trust you more if you don’t have to show each of them that there are no horns under your headcover.
You did not answer, though, how is it tolerable to take Avira’s smicha away for the sin of teaching maths.
ENS, thanks for the numbers. Here KJ is close enough to Bronx.
I am sure we need to do some adjustments here. First, you have a good approach doing “family” rather than person, this compensates for larger Jewish families. Another question would be ages – if Jews have larger families, than maybe average age is lower and this greatly affects the income. Also – are these numbers before or after government transfers? This will affect all calculations.
also, you want to compare KJ with other similar areas, not parts of NYC.
ujm, yes, but it is a center of many other things also. Maybe Lower East Side was more Jewish, but not the rest of it.
YU does have a Bronx campus for grad schools and Touro in Brooklyn, so maybe the change is gradually happening.
First, an attempt to _kill_ rehitza would show that the world is built on killing …
2nd, each yetzer has another side and eliminating the negative side will eliminate the positive. For example, when yetzer for A’Z was eliminated during BM2, so did prophecy. T’Ch tried to eliminate yetzer hara totally, but this stopped marriages, work, and egg production.
While the theory is clear, I am not sure what would be the downside of eliminating rehitza? No more shehita and surgeries? Maybe it goes to what is the motivation for rehitza – power and envy? The downside for those might be a drive for business and building communities.
I very much hope that Jewish schools produce better education than the most failing inner city ones. We just need to turn these anecdotes into numbers that can be published in the press. Do Yiddish school in IL teach maths? Can we translate a standardized test into Yiddish, administer to a school and show those results?
Given the schools under discussion, why are we having most “prestigious” Jewish colleges in the middle of Manhattan? Is this the most accessible place for commuting students from the whole community – from Brooklyn to Queens to NJ suburbs?
Maybe they can subdivide into several campi – in Brooklyn and somewhere outside of NYC with less access to bad middos? Here R Kotler was ahead of time! Toms River, maybe?
Opps, I did not realize mdd is your yet another account..
mdd,
I would be interested to learn what is the source of your views on this matter? Is this something you know first hand? Heard from family and friends? in your community? TV? online? I would appreciate if you can enlighten us. This would help us to appreciate your views better.> That would take him out of the line to be king then…
THAT behavior would probably invalidate lots of kings along the line … Maybe a good reason for a sofek and saying brocha bli shem when meeting a Monarch?
Dig up NYCLU article and their reference to East Ramapo “wealth”. Their presentation is extremely biased, but there are some public numbers they are using that you may want to unpack to show the economic state of the community.
CS, R Meir Shapiro et al did not “serve” in the government. Do you understand the difference between elected and civil service? Elected officials represent their voters, so even a frei Jewish politician might put a kippah once in a while. There is no downside. Maybe it also says something about Polish state during the interwar period where ethnic activities were in the open even if under some pressure, contrary to other states that were trying to erase those. I presume institutions in EY were under political control, so one had to deal with it. Note, that even Avira here says that he is called Rabbi when teaching kodesh, and Mr when teaching chol. Would you say he should stand up for the honor of his Rebbeim who gave him semicha or stick to his parnosah?
I just heard in the discussion of the Queen’s demise that R Soloveichik paskened not to watch the mass part of JFK funeral, because, if I understood correctly, Pope said that one can do that mass over TV, thus it being a mamash a’z.
Avira, yasher koach.
> make more money than the average
We have claims about income going to each extreme .. according to press, some of our communities are both highest receivers of welfare and also “high assets” while people according to recent NYCLU paper. Strange, they went to assets rather than income… does it mean we are buying houses instead of spending on vacations? Do we have any reliable numbers to analyze economic well-being of our communities?
Gadol > You cannot keep the next generation in a cave forever.
But define “forever”. 20 years sounded reasonable, is 200 more “forever” than 100? Many of the functions you mention can be fulfilled within the community with a Yiddish speaking travel agent or a website (der vebsait?). You don’t need to be extreme here, it will be rejected anyway, just try different pathways for some people who can handle it, and see whether the community is ready or not.
My understanding is that Touro provides way less “entertainment” relative to (somewhat lower quality) education. And more kids go home and not joining clubs. Still, it would be a bigger problem for Touro that caters to more right-wing population. If someone does not mind to go to a same level of college without being in a protective environment, they can do it way cheaper and closer to home, wherever they live. YU has more leverage.
Hope YU will stay without clubs. I am not sure why parents and tax-payers spend ridiculous amount of money on institutions to provide social life opportunities. Separate clubs from YU. If someone wants to sponsor those clubs, separately from tuition, gezunte heig. If YU can lower tuition based on that (not holding my breath), then it will make YU more attractive to those who now send their kids to “goyishe colleges”.