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Truth be Told: Again, you strengthen my point. I wear a black hat and gartel and went to yeshivisha yeshivous. The people honking in the other forum at 11:00 PM also wear blacks hats. The rabbayim from Torah Temimima and other rabbonyim that were convicted or accused of improper behavior, also wear black hats! What does this say? Black hats do NOT mean anything. People should look at the person, NOT a black hat.
No one is denying anyone’s right to pick someone who wears a black hat or not. But to believe that wearing a black hat makes a person better is ridiculous and close minded. All the black hat does is identify you with a certain sect in Judaism, but not a better or worse sect; just different.
In the MO sect, they believe on getting married at a later time in life.( I guess they want to responsible and make a parnassah and not rely on their shvar or only consider marrying someone rich–who am I to judge?) Just because they are not married by 18 or 23 does not make it a shidduch crises. We, in the orthodox community, consider it a shidduch crises when a girl is not married by 18. I also see that these young “yeshiva” girls who are affected and get married at the age of 24 do not consider a black hat on the top 10 want lists. I have a family friend who has a daughter who is 27 and not married. When she was younger she wanted the Yeshiva guy with a black hat and refused to date anyone but. Now, she tells me she does not care about a black hat. She wants a MENTCH! Someone who is yeras shumayim and kovaya eitim b’torah. It is funny that as you get older, you start realizing what is really important and what is fluff.
The fact that is being lost on you is that the black hat does not have any ideology or “charter”. It is a mere object that identifies you with that certain sect. EVERY sect in Orthox Judaism, either ultra or modern, puts the Torah first and that is their ideology. The behaviors, criminal activists, or the like are all personal behaviors that in no way reflect on the general beliefs of their branch.
Popa: That is my point. A lot of these guys are NOT Am Horatzim, and are even talmuda chochamim who do not wear black hats. They are shomer torah and mitzvos etc. Should we have a shidduch crises because of that? My OPINION is no! We need to look past all the bubba masis and see if the person is Yera Shmayim and shomer torah & mitzvos.
Elisha- You misunderstood me. My goal was not to demonstrate Derech Ertez! If a person can honk at 11:00 PM there is no way to teach them that. My goal was to show them that they are not the only people in this world with bad manners. Others can display them just as easily as they do. It maybe childish, bad manners etc, but the end result….they stopped honking!! 🙂
yid.period: I also wonder if one of the reasons why we have a shidduch crisis might be attributed to the fact Boys & Girls put to much emphasis on the chetzones and not on the pinemeas?
We all read the stories of the gedolim and their spouses but do we internalize them? Did Rabbi Akiva’s wife ask if he wore a black hat or yechus? Is it better to be single than marry a great guy who is a talmud chachum but does not wear a hat?
My Way: When did I ever say teacher’s don’t believe in hashem? Please re-read what I wrote.
I don’t need to have the answers, but only possible solutions. Unless you feel your way is the only way?
I can not afford to tip the rebbe because with all the amount of snow days this year, I lost out on a lot of income. If I can not make money, they can not either.
Mw13: Is there a charter that states the underlying movement of the “Yeshiva World” as you defined? I think EVERY movement in the frum world puts Torah above all. Modern Orthodox, Benai Akiva etc. They all believe Torah comes first. Why do you think black hatters have a monopoly on this?
Can you please provide a source that states they ask you in shmayim about your ideology and group of people you associate yourself with?
That being said: g-d is outside the realm if time, that is why it says in Sefer Shemos, he is past, present & future. So Hashem is looking in from the outside to all the possibilities that you can ever make and knows the outcome of it. We are in a time-space dimension so it is hard for us to understand an existence not bound by time.
For us, we have the free-will to decide anything we want. As Feynman stated, there are multiple possibilities that can occur within time-space. However, the fact that Hashem is not bound by the dimension, he knows the outcomes of the past, present and future. SO if you do change your mind and the last second, your future also changes, and to hashem it is knows since time does not exist. All dimensions are one. I guess it comes down to Hamyvin Yovin.
Ok, i took a different approach when people were honking. it really upsets me how people have a lack of consideration at 10 PM and later and feel they have a right to honk. When I lived in BP, I went on my balcony and started throwing eggs at cars windshields if they honked. I am not ashamed to say, it felt good and they stopped honking because they were busy trying to clean their windshields:):):)
Huyde LaHashem: I agree. A lot of teachers are not qualified to answer the non standard questions. The problem is they themselves lack an understanding of “emunah”. The christian has this belief of “faith” where one can not question. The term “emunah” does not mean that. Emunah is questioning everything to build a stronger relationship with g-d. The proof is hashem said “Unochi hashem”. There is a mitzvah to believe in g-d. If there is a mitzvah to believe in g-d, where does emunah fit in? Not matter what we see or believe, we need to believe in g-d because it is a mitzvah. Emunah comes in and tells us question things and believe it is all g-d. The point of emunah is to strengthen our resolve in g-d and the only way to do that is through questioning.
I know people will argue against this, but this is what I learned in a shuir and I think it makes perfect sense if people stop and think how it fits in with the mitzvah of Unochi Hashem.
mw13: Do you actually think the “yeshiva” world puts Torah and halacha before everything else? I think that is a “yeshivous” statement but in accurate.
I do not think a black hat or non black hat makes one a better Jew. True, if you wear a black hat you associate yourself to the yeshivous background. But that is not better or worse than people wearing a kipa serugah, leather yarmulka or etc. After 120, they are not going to ask you the color of your hat. I promise you that! They will be asking about your honesty in business, and k’viem Eiten batorah, a set time to learn, not kollel. So the moral of this story is be a good honest Jew and do not worry about your hat!
No. The Godolim theorized why the holocaust happens, but not why it happened.
I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that there is a tragedy occurring in Japan. Why it happened or the cause of it is not for us to delve in to. We are not Hashsem’s accountants or Navi that knows things. We should feel the tragedy of loss of life and hope everyone, Jews and Non Jews, will be alright. We can strengthen our own middos, learning or anything else. But we do not know the cause of why these tragedies occurred. To suggest otherwise is tipshus.
For example, a tipush could suggest that Japan received two nuclear bombs during WW2 because they housed Mirrer Yeshiva. Maybe hashem was upset with Japan for saving those Jews because they were litvish?? Didn’t you know hashem is a chosid and not litvish? Yes, it is an absurd statement, but when you start making up chashboynus, one can say anything! Leave the booba maises to yourself.
All we know is a tragedy occurred and we should davven for everyone’s heath (yes, there are Jews in Japan) and in the Zchus of them saving all the Jews during WW2, the nuclear reactors should come under control. Amen!
CharlieHall: I actually had that argument with a Skvar Chosid when I saw Moshe Rabaynu with curly payos in New Square. I had to enlighten him what the posek stated when he first came to Midyon. He looked like an Ish Mitzri!! Yes, there are great pshatim on what that means. But the poshet pshat in Posek he looked like a regular Egyptian. Sorry, he looked like an Egyptian prince. Do people think Egyptian princes had curly payos??
The Torah explicitly states that Moshe was chosen because he had a heart and cared for even his sheep. Not that he was a TaLmud Chochum, or was even a Nasi in Israel. He was a jew that cared about other jews. That is what is important. Hats, or yarmulka’s mean nothing if us jews do not have ahavas chinum.
Truth be told: I looked up your source and here is what it says “
Just as a king must always wear a crown, so too it is appropriate that a Chosson wear a felt (not straw!) hat throughout his wedding” (p. 256).
So according to this, the Rov only suggested a hat at the wedding for Chosson Domah L’melech and did NOT require anyone to wear a hat.
Truth be Told: As you mentioned, a HAT. R’ Schachter never said a black hat. It could be a Russian hat, gray, blue or any other type. Per your quotes.
truth be told: Don’t know what you are asking? What does innocence have to do with Hashem taking anyone away?
But to think Hashem would kill thousands of innocent people to send you a message is nonsense. The atrocities in Sodom was clearly spelled out in chumish and all merforshem, which extended to women and children. They were not innocent. If hashem punishes evil people, he would use them as a message, not innocent people. Do you think the Fogel family, A’H and may their blood be avenged, was a message to you? I think that is a sick way of thinking. Leave the calculations to hashem since as a human we are incapable of understanding his derech. Definitely do not make up chashboynis for him.
Truth Be Told: Nice Story, but still does not reflect the beliefs of the Rov. The mere fact that a person always wore a hat the rav felt he should wear one even if it is hot. If you asked the Rov if a YU boy should wear a hat, I am 100% sure his answer would be different.
Rabbi Aaron Rakeffet, who studied under the Rov himself said :To me it’s a compliment that I don’t need [a black hat] to be frum…..because being a Torah Jew is the most important thing in the world.” Did he have anything against it? NO, but wearing a black hat does not make a good Jew.
As my wife is fond of saying, fasting is not for mothers or working people.
Who really cares if one wears a hat or not! THat does not make one a good jew!
Moshiach’s Hat
By Rabbi Yitzchok Feigenbaum
“Twas the night of the Geulah, – And in every single Shtiebel. Sounds of the Torah could be heard coming from every kind of Yeedel.
This one in English Some in Hebrew, some in Yiddish. Some saying Pshat And some saying a Chiddish. And up in Shamayim The Aibishter decreed: “The time has come for My Children to be freed.”
“Rouse the Moshiach From his heavenly berth. Have him get in his chariot, And head down to earth.” The Moshiach got dressed And with a heart full of glee, Went down to earth and entered The first Shtiebel he did see.
“I am the Moshiach! Hashem has heard your plea! Your Geulah has come! It’s time to go free!” They all stopped their learning; This was quite a surprise. And they looked at him carefully, With piercing sharp eyes.
“He’s not the Moshiach!” Said one with a grin, “Just look at his hat, At the pinches and brim!” “That’s right!” cried another With a grimace and frown, “Whoever heard of Moshiach With a brim that’s turned down?”
“Well,” thought Moshiach, “If this is the rule, I’ll turn my brim up Before I go to the next shul.” So he walked right on over To the next shul in town. Sure to be accepted, Since his brim was no longer down. “I’m the Moshiach!” he cried, As he began to enter, But the Jews wanted to know first If he was Left, Right, or Center.
“You’re clothes are so black!” They cried out in fright. “You can’t be Moshiach You’re much too far right!” “If you want to be Moshiach, You must be properly outfitted.” So they replaced his black hat with a kippah that was knitted. Wearing his new Kippah, Moshiach went out and said: “No difference to me what I wear on my head.”
So he went to the next shul, For his mission was dear, But he was getting frustrated with the Yidden down here. “I’m the Moshiach!” he cried, And they all stopped to stare, And a complete eerie stillness filled up the air.
“You’re the Moshiach?! just imagine that! Whoever heard of Moshiach – without a black hat?!” “But I do have a hat!” the Moshiach then said. So he pulled it right out and plunked it down on his head.
The shul started laughing, And one said: “where’s your kop?” You can’t have a Moshiach With a brim that’s turned up!” “If you want to be Moshiach And be accepted in this town, Put some pinches in your hat And turn that brim down!”
Moshiach walked out and said: “I guess my time hasn’t come. I’ll just have to return to where I came from.” So he went to his chariot, But as he began to enter, All sort of Jews appeared From the Left, Right, and Center.
“Please wait – do not leave. It’s all their fault!” they said, And they pointed to each other And to what was on each other’s head. Moshiach just looked sad And said, “you don’t understand.”
And then started up his chariot to get out of this land. “Yes, it’s very wonderful That you all learn Torah, But you seem to have forgotten a crucial part of our Mesorah.
“What does he mean?” “what’s he talked about?” And they all looked bewildered, And all began to shout. Moshiach looked back and answered, “The first place to start, Is to shut up your mouths and open up your hearts. “To each of you, certain Yidden Seem too frum or too frei, But all yidden are beloved In the Aibishter’s eye.”
And on his way up he shouted: “If you want me to come, Try working a little harder On some Ahavat Chinam!”
So Hashem kills thousands of innocent people to send US a message?