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HaLeivi,
Read the gemara! Just because amoraim talk about something does not mean its a current discussion for this days! If you believe so, then we are in a far worse off state than I thought.
Haleivi,
There is NO gemera that states that today’s Galus is binded by any oaths. I pointed out, numerous times, that the gemara regarding oaths were clearly on Bayis Rishon and no where does it say Bayis Sheni.
In addition, ומסתברא is a term that does not unequivocally mean final. It means a logical conclusion without any evidence. As stated again, even if he was a Navi, no where does it ever say he received Navuah regarding the geula. NO WHERE! You seem to ignore that and just relay on prior prophecy that even Daniel didn’t know when 70 years were over. No where in Navi does it say a date etc. You relay on a lot of assumptions to meet your narrative.
Like I said, you staying behind is no difference than all the other gedolim that were wrong. The Meraglim were also the great of their generation and were wrong. By not seeing the hand of Hashem sis denying everything he is doing because it doesn’t fit your narrative. Like the millions of Jews in Egypt that volunteered to remain behind because after all the miracles, they still felt it was not time.
Haleivi,
I know your point. And it’s still not valid. There are no oaths. You’re not shown where it says it is still valid. You bring me a Rabbanim who interpret an Aggadta.
Nowhere Navi does it collaborate your opinion. Not even the gamora.Show me where a an assumption is considered a fact?
HaLeivi,
I’m sorry but that is not how a gemara finds the answer. It does not say מסתברא. That is a word that means, most likely, but not certain. In addition, even if he was a Navi, we have a whole Sefer of Ezra and not one nevuia regarding the geula? Think with your gemara cup! Does that make sense?!?! The pivitol moment when Jews can go back, and not ONE neviah?
We are in a zeman similar to when Jews had to leave Mitzrayim and Bavel. There is no Neviah, but the timing is right. It seems you have chosen to remain in Mitzrayim and Bavel. That is your right. It is even your right to criticize people who believe in the Geula. But it still wont make you right! You will be known as the Chamishim. As Rashi explained, the 4/5ths of Jews who remained in Egypt, even though they were being persecuted. They probably said the same thing as Satmar, that the 400 years weren’t over and even after all the miracles, they still felt Moshe was not the right leader. Most probably because he looked like a Goy, like the Torah described him, he looked like a Egyptian.
So I will follow the goyish Zionists to the Land that Hashem promised our Avos. That’s that!
HaLeivi
Correct, NO ONE SAID he was a Navi. the maskana was מסתברא. There is a safek with no clear indication.
In addition, if he was a Navi, wouldn’t it say in Sefer Ezra that Hashem told Ezra to go back? No! It didn’t. Even if he was a Navi, there was no command for Ezra to return B’nai Yisroel to Israel. If there was, every Tanna that lived then defied Hashem by not listening to his Word to Ezra! Is that what you are saying? That Hashem told Ezra to tell B ai Yisroel to return to Israel and no one listened to him, except the people who had yichus issues? Does that make sense?It shows that Ezra KNEW the time was to return because the kings allowed it. He did not wait for nevu. The opportunity presented itself and he went. It was NOT easy with the people that went also we’re not shomer mitzvous as we learn in Nechemia.
So the opportunity presented itself with today’s Israel and we, as Jews, have an obligation to go to Israel, even if the government is not Shomer Torah. If not, you are no different than the Jews who stayed behind on Mitzrayim and Bavel. edited
@Helevai,
You answered it yourself, מסתברא . That’s not a clear indication, even if you want to say he was a Navi. So there is no one that said he was a Navi. He had no Neviah that we are aware if, and yet, he seems like a Zionists violating the oaths.
I can’t!!!! This is the problem with satmar and every other anti Zionist! They pick and choose what they hear and learn. You example of מגילה ט״ו א was a Daas Yochid!!! The Rabbanim disagreed!!! Now are you saying we can follow a Daas Yochid?!?!
Smerlel,
You are right! They turn into an Amy Stein who affiliates with h the Squad. Why can’t these OTD satmars become MO?
AviraDeArah- Ahh, so now we are allowed to eat from a restaurant owned by a murderer without any mashgiach because hashem was able to send ravens to feed Eliyahu. Is that the message? Then you should have no problem eating by Zionists 🙂
AviraDeArah
You spew statements, and then backtrack. First it was “Ezra had a nevuah” Then you had to clarify he heard of the nevua. Now it’s “Elisha ate meat from the table of Izevel, who was steeped in idolatry.” but it is now the birds brought him meat from an Avday Avoda Zara and a Zona.In addition, no one knew when the 70 years started or ended, Even Daniel made a mistake. There was NO Nevuah when it ended. Only when the GOYISH Kingdom allowed the jews to go up and rebuild did the jews realize the time was up. Kind of like the UN and Israel. edited It is Kedusha, regardless who runs the government.. It had kedusha under the worst kings of Jews, and it still has kedusha now.
” there are clear indications that they were frum otherwise and knowledgeable in Torah.” I do not understand your definition of frum? it is the satmar version? Belz? How do you define frum? The torah that I learned was someone who is worships idols, kills people, and is a zona, is not frum.
AviraDeArah,
It’s sad you don’t know Navi. It’s the poor state of Yeshiva Education. Izevel was a murder, and cruel woman. I find it fascinating that you think her meat was mehandrin and that’s why he at it? To think worshipping the Baal is a small aviera, because they were keeping every other “mitzva meticulously” is laughable. You obviously do not understand what it means to worship the Baal.
And again, you seem to not understand Navi, but it’s understandable with today’s yeshiva education. Your shavous is only bayis rishon. Nothing was said about Bayis Shani. If you want to apply that to today’s Galus, then we can also say that the 70 years of Galus also meant both Galus.
And if the kings in the times of the Bais Hamikdash also also chazir, worshipped the Baal, murdered people, isn’t Nitanyau better?
Nitanyau gives money to yeshivas while Achav and ilk murdered them.@Avira- you wrote “Ezra had a nevuah”. He knew of a neviah, but did not receive any neviah! And everyone did not believe in it or they would have gone up with him!!! Majority of the Jews stayed behind! It takes action! Yes, all the Tannaim, amoraim stayed behind and that is why we don’t a geula now!
You are stuck in the 1800’s! Zionists today are not what it was 100+ years ago! Talking about Shmad is ridiculous! If you are so anti Zionists, don’t accept their money and you won’t have any issue with the army. Plain and simple. Don’t be leach.
And yes, I would pick Bibi over King Yanni, King Manesha, Zechariah etc any day!!!! The problem why we don’t have the Bais Hamikdash is because YOU are not building it. You have done ZERO hishtaduls. Even Dovid, when he knew he can’t build it, prepared everything to be ready when it will be built. What have you prepared? What have you done?
All your ilk are the same. Zionism this, Zionism that! What have you done to bring moshiach? What have you done to rebuild the bayis? All I see is you taking money from a chazir because you justify why it’s ok.
Per the Torah, there will be multiple moshiachs (gasp) and they don’t even need to be Jewish!!! ( Blasphemy). But a true talmid chochim knows what I am talking about. So who said that Bibi is not a moshiach? Just because he doesn’t wear a straimel?Can you please show me where it says Ezra was a Navi?? Which posek?
Hitler did not initially want to kill the jews. He wanted them out of Germany. If all the jews went to Eretz Yisroel, the Holocaust would not have happened. it only happened because Jews felt too comfortable to leave!!!!! Like the Jews in Egypt when Moshe told them too leave! Even after all the persecution, they still felt more comfortable in Egypt then going to Eretz Yisroel. The same analogy can be made with Europe.
Think about it, Germany never came to eretz yisroel!! All the ZIONIST that ran to our homeland survived. All the jews who disparaged and insulted eretz yisroel were murdered,
NEVER disparage eretz yisroel, no matter who is running the country! Eretz Yisroel is better now than in the times of the Bais Hamkidash!! The zionist support people learning! During the times of the Bayis, the kings killed the Talmedai Chachmim! And if you think the money is chazir, why to all the mosdos, including Satmur, take it?!?! Must not be that bad 🙂
HaLeivi,
That’s exactly what the rabbonim in the times of Ezra said! And look what it got us? More Galus!!!
I am sure the Meraglim, who were also B’nai Torah, Rabbanim, and who were nassim, Great men, holier than anyone you named in your posts, also said it’s not good to go up. The 7 nations, you only have Zionist… 🤔
You can believe whatever you want, just like the Meraglim and and all other Rabbanim and Jews who refused to enter eretz Yisroel, and all for good reasons too! I’ll err on the side of the avos, Moshe, yehoshua, Ezra, nechemia and all other Jews who went to the land that hashem promised.If you feel Zionists are bad, boy, you should have lived in the times of the Bais Hamikdash!!! It was terrible!!!!!!
This topic is dumb. 4/5ths of the Jews in the time of Moshe also didn’t acknowledge the miracles. When Ezra went back to Israel, the majority of Jews and Rabbanim also didn’t go back.
Morale of the story, it doesn’t matter how much Torah you think you have or what your gadolntells you. In both cases, history has shown that they were both wrong and we are still being punished for it today!
Don’t mess with Eretz Yisroel, ever!@Haliva,
Last I checked, amoraim discusses things also outside their time period. In this case, they were discussing a verse in Yermiyahu that discusses coming UP from Bavel. Hence the conversation about the oaths.
The Amorim were NOT discussing the second gals. Its clearly outlined in the Gemara.
@HaKatan- yes, the Satmar Rav and others may have missed it. They are human after all.
You need to stop repeating words and read what the gemorra wrote. it’s says Shelo Yaalu..go up!! Go UP from where?!?! The gemorra ONLY uses that term what it takes about people going up from Bavel. And even if you wanted to disagree, the term is yaala, not Yavo.
Sorry, if jews were IN the land already, they are allowed to fight.Correct, it does not apply today. It’s only for Bayis Rishon. That is what the Gemora mentioned. It did not mention anything about Bayis Sheni.
I don’t understand people here.
There are no oaths!
The oaths were only on Bayis Rishon. It doesn’t say anywhere for Bayis Shani. Plain and simple!
Second, then oaths is not to rebel your host country to go to Eretz Yisroel. It doesn’t say people IN Eretz Yisroel can’t rebel and fight!
Looks are VERY important in a marriage and should not be diminished by ignorant statements of its pure personality. If a husband does not find a wife attractive, you have tzores!
On that note, I also disagree with resume’s and pictures. Seeing the person in real life, you get to see her and her personality. Sometimes her personality is so beautiful it increases her overall attractiveness.
However, from the perspective of a boy who lives far away from a girl, I can see the value of a picture. For example, if a girl has black hair, and the boy (yes, his preference and mishugas) is he only dates blonds, why would he fly to see someone who is not his type; regardless of the personality.
But this has nothing to do with MO, yeshivish or chassidish. the importance of looks are vital and their are countless stories of the sad outcome one one ignores it.
Didn’t Rachel steal Lavan’s idols?
ClearKop- HKH did not create this issue. Its manmade and man needs to fix it. When we had the last shidduch crises in Navi, HBH had Tu Bav where boys watched women dance and that’s how they selected their wives. I doubt that would pass today
Nope…..finishing Shas is not on my bucket list. Buying a Dodge Charger is though. Getting Semicha was too, and accomplished. Still working on my Dodge Charger.
Ubiq: I wouldn’t call it Bipartisan when only 8 Republicans voted for it.
Unfortunately, the mods don’t like posting my response, so I will not waste more time on this.“you keep making the same silly mistake. The constitution and the supreme court are not torah Misiani lehavdil.”
That is your silly mistake. Until ruled otherwise, a law is torah misinai until another court replaces. You are living in La La land and basing your arguments on the “What If” scenario. I am being factual. The law is the way it is and there is nothing you can do about it until it changes. So yes, yell, scream and protest. That is your constitutional right.
you keep on bring up car registration which is an absurd argument.
1) Car registration is not federal. As you already pointed out, even gun registration is state level.
2) Car registration is a simple fee, same as gun licensing. The test is also very simple and majority of Americans pass it on the first try.
3) Car registration and licenses are revoked for a period amount of time if you misuse your car. Should the same apply with guns? No.
4) Nearly 1.25 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day. An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled. Based on your logic, we should ban all vehicles!
So what should we discuss, 40,000 people that die from gun violence (2/3 from suicide) or the 1.25 MILLION that are killed by a dangerous weapon??” including a majority of Republicans and even a majority of nra members.” Seriously? You crack me up with your misinformation. Per your news source, NPR, “The vote on the first bill, dubbed the Bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019, passed largely along party lines 240 to 190”. I hardly call that support!
do you think that is something we should stop or a necessary evil (or good !?) to avoid penalizing law abiding citizens. by having them register guns (Though for soem reason car registration is not a penalty)
Car ownership is not a right. If there was an amendment that everyone can own a car, then yes, it will be the same as gun rights. But until that happens, there is no comparison.
So opposing abortions is “corrupt governments that want to impose their tyrannical ideology on the masses.”
After all the supreme court ruled that it was protected. So according to you that now defines opposing it as a “tyrannical ideology”Yes, killing an infant when it can feel is tyrannical. However, since this is the law, there is nothing that can be done besides protesting. The same thing you can do against the tyrannical government allowing gun rights. But hey, at least they are consistent in allowing killing!
“I don’t follow, are Jews dangerous?”
1- They could be. Want me to list all the dangerous Jews that kill people? 2- Jews don’t have to be dangerous, it is to protect YOU from other people. So if someone punches you in the face, we can keep track of you to ensure you are safe. The same is with gun registrations. There is no gun problem with law abiding citizens. The issues arises from criminals who won;t be registering their guns and get everything illegally anyways. . So what you are suggesting is instead of penalizing the criminals, you also include the law abiding citizens. How’s that for democracy?DaasYochid: Agreed!
Uniq:
1 justice disagreed!!! Until a new Supreme Court takes on this case again, it is unconstitutional! While you say “The constitution isnt absolute.” the court has to ruled otherwise!” we are discussing the appropriateness of the act. the constitution is a dodge.”
No, the constitutions protects individuals from corrupt governments that want to impose their tyrannical ideology on the masses. Would you have any objection for the government to require all the Jews to register themselves in a national database? This will help them identify Jews so they can ensure their safety and help them combat antisemitism? By requiring gun owners to register their guns, which will NOT prevent gun violence, you are penalizing law abiding citizens. Replace guns with Jews.“Nope, see 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(21)(C) only if purchased from a “dealer” this is the so-called “gunshow loophole” Ive been telling you about”
No, the loophole is private sellers, not licensed FFL. Would I agree for private too? that is yes!
UNiq: Please read up on U.S. v. Haynes (1968) why a national gun registration is unconstitutional. However, as I stated and you correctly pointed out, it is only mandatory at state level, and only some of them do it. While the state I live in requires registration, I understand why it is opposed on a national level. So no, I do not back a national background check.
However, backgorund checks IS mandatory on a federal level.
Uniq:
Pray tell how a national gun registry would reduce illegal guns?Uniq:
I just want to try to prevent said masked intruder from being armed by requiring universal background checks, gun registries etc is that really a “complacent, brainless, and outright dangerous” position ?”Yes, the statement you made is brainless as I illustrated numerous times that background checks and gun registries are mandatory. If you truly have a gun, you would know that your gun serial number is registered to your license which, of course, went through a background check. What else would you like?
Ubiq:
Your right. it is pointless discussing this as there is no foundation to anything you mentioned. You are right, and the knowledgeable people are wrong. One can not discuss an issue against your opinion. As you eloquently articulated that your opinion trumps fact. All I ask is you stop repeating the lies and misinformation as someone maybe dumb enough to believe you as it is the truth.Reb Yidd: They are already discussing splitting New York in to Upper and Lower New York as the ideology grossly changes between the two.
Uniq:
Unfortunately, the Mods did not approve my other post, but in short, please educate yourself prior to posting nonsense like “NONE of these measure exist in the US. Definitely not routinely, and most dont exist at all”
In Chicago, it is virtually impossible to own a handgun, yet, it has the highest crime rate. New York requires a psych background check, criminal background check etc. I cannot google all of it, but please do some research prior to posting garbage. Yes, I already know you will find an example that is “poresh min hatzibur”, but you need to look at the riov.Health: We can agree if you commit a crime, there should be tougher punishments. But that’s the catch 22, in liberal states they are soft on crime because they feel criminals can be reformed.
Smarter:
If we treated guns like cars that would be great:
– mandatory safety features
Already exists
– they have to be registered
Yup…needs to happen too– need to buy insurance
Home owners already cover it.
– need to pass test to know how to safely use it
Yup===check on that– need to pass a test to make sure you can see
Better- they even do background checks and fingerprinting.– need to get a license, and reaaply every decade
-Yup—check on that too
– above license can be revoked for certain infarctions
Yup===already in placeThanks! Now you see the light!
The arguments that are being made is like trying to stop drunk drivers from killing sober drivers? Ban all sober drivers from driving.
Health: They are socially liberally, but not gun control liberal.
Ubiq: Police only need to re-certify once a year. You are not safer with police having guns than someone who is more interested in his own welfare. Please youtube those sad but funny videos showing they can’t shoot for their life!
You do know that in order to obtain a license there are background checks, training with the sheriff department on the laws, and treatment on how to handle a gun. That is only for a sporting license. New York city does not give concealed weapons permits unless you prove that you are a target.
” A healthy breakfast being critical to start the day, the right of the children to eat cereal shall not be infringed”
would this guarantee the right of the children to eat fruity pebbles?
If cereal equates to fruity pebbles, then YES. The same way Arms is equated to guns.Whoa hold up! Earlier yo u said we cant compare USA to Israel and that if we do it somehow meant we had to have a draft and socialism
and besides I’m not sure where you get your stats from, with the exception of Switzerland all the countries you lsit have far fewer guns, and of course far fewer homicides than the USActually, the states came from a research website that listed the countries gun laws versus homicide.
“While Israel has standards for gun ownership, every 18 year old carries one”
This is false.
Sorry-This is true! Have you been there? Regardless of who OWNS the gun, every 18 year old is drafted into the army and handles a gun. So in essence, you have a bunch of 18 year old handling long guns.“The guns are registered, psychological profiles must be passed and reassesed.”
Regardless who it is registered, you still have 18 year olds handling guns. Their psychological exam is only a 30 minutes to determine your cognitive skills to see how long you can be in combat. The more deeper you are, the better combat unit you can go into. It is not about can they issue you a gun.” Look yo ucant have it both ways”- same her….either way it is an argument for guns. But Israel does not have a second amendment that guarantees that right, so yes, they can add additional requirements.
“Um yeah, and some scientists are now saying death by suicide is just as dead as homicide”- So you worried about people killing themselves or killing others? If it is themselves, then remove knives, cars, and bridges and people use them to kill themselves too.
Are you serious? I’m happy to explain the difference if you really need it explained. But for the record, d you not see the difference?
per the FBI report in 2016, 374 people were killed in mass shootings, versus 1604 for knives. So why legislate against the weapon of choice versus knives?“Yep, though some studies are showing that black people are people too. I know I know thats pretty liberal of me.”- Yes, and that is why Chicago has a high homicide rate. So it has nothing to do with the laws, but the people.
“Do I have the right to own grenades? “that is the same gibberish has asking you should own nukes. There are great papers on that.
” Just becasue other people will abuse this priverlage means I shouldnt be allowed to run reds?” I guess that is why people outside NYC is allowed to turn right on red, because people don’t abuse it. So yes!
uniq:
so I had to look it up it took 40 minutes. Just so I have your argument right, you are saying that while it took trained armed SWAT team members called in to take him down, over 30 hour to subdue the gunman. It would’ve been faster for elderly untrained individuals surprised by the gunman. Is that really your argument?And it took over 90 minutes for the Pulse Night club shooting. My argument is for TRAINED citizens to bear arms. As you can see, it is more effective than police. In all the cases, the standard procedure for the police is to wait for SWAT, and after 10 minutes, most of the shootings are over. So yes, my argument is that trained people should own guns and at least have a fighting chance.
UNiq:
Warren Burger is entitled to state anything he wants as a personal opinion to a magazine. However, he has never stated anything that refutes gun ownership while on the court. In addition, please read the full article as some of his logic was faulty and highlighted by every critic.
However, we do have a case of District of Columbia v. Heller, the court said there is an individual constitutional right to have a handgun in one’s home for self-protection. Per our current courts, it is a right.Also I can’t help but notice you havent answered my question: suppose the constitution said ” A healthy breakfast being critical to start the day, the right of the people to eat cereal shall not be infringed”
would this guarantee the right to eat fruity pebbles?
Bring me a realistic case for a proper response.We should compare USA to Israel, Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark, all countries with heavy gun ownership, have a history of low murder rates. While Israel has standards for gun ownership, every 18 year old carries one and can still commit murder.
In addition, over 65% of gun deaths are suicide, not murder. Knives far outweigh rifle shootings. Per your argument, we should also restrict knives.
Most legal owned guns are owned by White males. However, the majority of gun homicides are committed against black people. Take Chicago as a perfect example.
Even the CDC in 2013 reported that there are over 100, 000 times guns were used for self defense, which resulted in “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”
While it is your opinion and right to not own a gun, that is where it should remain. Liberals needs to stop infringing people’s rights by enforcing their own ideals.
Ubiq: For over 200 hundred years that was exactly how it was understood. That is why citizens owned guns throughout American history. The new liberal left is rewriting history.
You seriously brought an example of Missouri, a STATE to make an argument why a CITY has the highest gun violence? Regardless, Missouri has very weak gun laws and Chicago has the toughest. The correlation that is made is that the laws really don’t matter. People will commit crimes no matter how many laws are passed.
USA has a second amendment. Israel does not. Period. Comparing USA to Israel is foolish. Israel has a mandatory draft, should USA have it too? Israel is a socialist country, should USA be too? Don’t answer that!
Can you tell me how long it too for the Pittsburgh police to enter the shul? When you get your response, you’ll know why citizens should own guns.
Ubiq: You forgot to state the other half of the amendment…” the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Per English rules, “A comma marks a slight break between different parts of a sentence”. The second amendment allows a militia and people to bear arms.
Nicely stated, when the government tried to infringe on people’s rights, like to prohibition era, organized crime increased. The majority of gun violence is with criminals, not upstanding citizens, so restricting the citizens rights based on a minority of criminal is asinine. Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws, it is still known as one of the deadliest cities.
I was referring to the US.
It’s a moot point comparing Israel to the US. US has a second amendment, Israel does not. End of story.
ubiquitin: actually there is no limit on gun ownership and there is no psychiatric test.
go to the 5 towns a pick up a boy! That may change her mind 🙂
DAAS:” Would Rag Chaim Kanievsky go on a cruise? There’s the answer.
He wouldn’t post on YWN either.”
LOL- well said!
Joseph: This is the crux of the issue ” In fact, whenever there’s an eis tzara in Eretz Yisroel…” Teffilos should be said BEFORE there is an Eis Tzara! The fact that yeshiva bochurim are able to peacefully sit a learn, they should be saying a tefillah EVERYDAY for their brothers who are putting themselves into danger.
Side topic: the concept of shalosh shavuos is not what most yeshivous teach. For example: besides that the fact the umos had to keep their end of the deal ( like we see the concept by miztrayim) the gra holds it only applied to the bais hamikdash, not eretz yisroel. R chaim Vital holds it only applied for 1000 years. The author of Hafla’ah held it only applied to galus bavel. So there are big posken who don’t agree with that is taught in todays yeshivous.
However, if one holds like the other posken that it does apply, the shavuah is not about creating a state, but on the individuals not to go to eretz yisroel (“shelo yaalu bachoma”). This means that the yeshivas must close down and come back to chutz laaratz.
Joseph: you are right, but the thread is not about a teffilah for the government. Its about a teffilah for our brothers in harms way.
On your other point for davvening for the state, keep in mind, Rabbi Chaninna lived under the Roman Empire, which slaughtered Jews, and enslaved Jews whenever they felt like it (besides the facts of the churban habayis). The government was appointed by the Romans; much of the time Hellenistic Jews who despised the charadim and tried to assist in doing away with the Torah as we know it . Still, he recommend to davven for the welfare from the government. Would you really equate the Israeli Government to the Romans? Would you really equate the Israeli government to Hitler? Just to clarify, if you live in chutz laaretz, you do not have an obligation to pray for the Israeli government. It is only to the country you live in. However, if you live in Eretz Yisroel, I do not see how you can bypass a mishna, navi, and historical facts. I would love to be enlightened on this.
Jospeh: please reread my posts again. I clearly stated since WW1 yidden stopped in Germany for ethical reasons. Did all shuls stop, I do not know. What we DO know is Jews did davven for the Czar even during pogroms and forced conscription of their children to the army. That is an historical fact.
The halacha is to davven for your own goverment first. The RZ k owns that. However, achainu kol bais yisroel…..when your brother is in harms way, you should davvens for their safety. If the Russian army has mostly jews, then yes, davven for them too. However, Israel has the largest army of Jews, and one ahould davven for them, especially if you are sitting and learning as they are protecting you.
Joseph: You are ignorant in History and the Torah! Please learn a little prior to answering further. Yes, Jews davvened for the Czar even when they were persecuted! So stop being a tippish and stating stupid things! Religious Zionist are not demanding anything! The question is are YOU following the Torah? You will find siddurim from England, Russia, US, Amsterdam all having tefflios for the local government, even when the Jews were persecuted. No one cares what teffilah you say, but a teffilah should be said based on the Torah. So you really need to put a sock in it because you are spewing hatred and ignorance.
Joseph: It’s not what I believe, it’s what Yirmeyahu believes. As stated, historically, Jews did davven for the Czar’s.