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if we didnt have thumbs we would have to eat like animals, eating out of a trough at a shmorg bumping heads with other people wouldnt be much fun. opposable thumbs are a tremendous bracha.
With very few exceptions, the theme of this thread has been bash NASI and their attempts to solve an acknowledged problem.
Any concrete suggestions from the esteemed members of the CR to help facilitate the setting up of older singles?
If she plans on being the breadwinner so that her husband can learn, she should certainly be most of the way finished with her schooling before she gets married. Last I heard, schools frowned upon new mothers bringing their infants/small children to class. Of course there is always FP, but I dont want to go there.
OK. who suggested that it was?
“Each of them can only marry one girl.”
Just wait until the next game changing concept is unveiled to the public.
“A lifetime remaining single is perhaps the worst life a girl can have.”
“Sad, and obviously false.”
The gemara DOES assert “Tav Limaiav Tan Du, MiLimaisav Armelu”. I dont claim to understand exactly what that means and how it applies in all situations, but to simply say “false” is likely wrong too. This line of gemara does imply that at least in certain scenarios a woman would rather “settle” than remain single (I believe in the case of the gemara the shliach accepted kiddushin on her behalf from a not very attractive fellow). Every person is different and every person draws the line on what they will or wont settle on. Blanket statements should be avoided on such a subject.
“a shadchan is not a prefessional, they are volunteers.”
You might want to discuss this novel concept of yours with the numerous “professional” shadchanim out there. There are quite a few. Google terms such as professional shadchan, or professional jewish matchmaker or something similar as a way to start.
Forget NASI, your situation has nothing to do with them, or their ad. Have you spoken (not, did you confront your husband about….) to your husband about “his lazy lifestyle comprised of nearly 30 years doing nothing” and how it has a negative impact on you as a person? Have you spoken to a marriage counselor and/or a Rav? Does your husband have a Rav/Rebbe/mentor?
Back to the initiative. Over shabbos we had a guest, the mother of an “older” single. She read the ad and had the following questions.
Are those who sign up and have their names put on “the list”, given the contact information of all shadchanim who receive this list so that they can reach out to them?
Can anyone who calls themselves a shadchan call NASI and get a copy of the list?
Does obtaining a copy of “the list”, obligate a shadchan in any way, such as a commitment to reach out to X number of people to potentially redt a shidduch?
Obviously, only NASI has the definitive answers to questions such as these, however, does anyone feel that the program suggested by NASI might be more palatable to the public if if those or similar type modifications were made (and publicised)?
“I can just see a shadchan telling a 30 year old girl they will only set them up for 13k, now that the price has been given that baseline.”
PBA. This won’t happen as a result of this ad, it happens already. Over shabbos, a 1st cousing of mine who is pushing 40 (he is maybe 38 or 39, not really sure) related that several years ago he got a call from a shadchan who had a wonderful girl to suggest to him. She related some of the basics. He told her, sounds good, I’m interested in pursuing it. Her response was, before we continue, I want you to know my fee is 15000 thousand dollars. He declined her services and told her if this girl is his bashert, hashem will send it through another shliach.
“apushatayid: This is not just an initiative, it is (as they themselves call it,) a game changer. It puts girls who can’t afford the money at a disadvantage. (Or worse it puts huge pressure on them to pay it to keep the playing field even ith those who can afford it))”
How does this specific aspect change anything. Parents who cant afford $1500 a month support, are ALREADY at a disadvantage, all this does is “institutionalize” the concept. The game changer with this plan, is that unlike before, there is a huge financial incentive being dangled in front of shadchanim, that no matter how much time and effort they expend on this girl, there is a guaranteed payday at the end.
“Is NASI abandoning the aniyam of Klal Yisroel?”
I am not a spokesperson for NASI, nor am I in any way affiliated with them, with that said; Has NASI ever billed itself as the champion of the aniyim? Is NASI the only group out there involved in shidduchim? If anyone has an issue with a shadchan who is part of this program, dont use their services, even if it is through a vehicle outside this program.
“The shortage of boys needs to be addressed”
As one shadchan told me, there is no shortage of boys, only a shortage of people willing to look in certain places for those boys.
PBA. I didnt see the ad, but apparantly its not just $500 paid in by the parents, it is $500 PLUS the specified amount based on age. The bigger concern is, who is safeguarding this money? Who will make sure nobody plays the market with it, or worse? I have no idea what the $500 goes to cover (I guess NASI overhead such as costs of full page ads in jewish media across the country?), but I am not the IRS and not doing an audit on them, so I dont really care.
“Is it disturbing that your son’s Rebbe gets paid for teaching your kid Torah?”
I might (didnt really think it through) agree with the sentiment, but, this is a poor analogy (and not just this specific example). The Rebbe gets a salary from the yeshiva regardless of if, or how much tuition a parent pays the yeshiva or how much classroom time or out of classroom time he puts into an individual student or how successful a student is. Is the shadchan getting paid for all efforts expended, successful or not?
Why do some people think this is a scam? Everyone knows going in what the terms are, if you dont like it, dont send them money. Utilize other shadchanim or groups that “specialize” in older singles.
“They WANT to be directed and guided. Sometimes, they even want to be yelled at.”
Which of these wants means they want to be threatened with a death penalty.
Does a 22 year old get dropped from the list if she doesn’t plunk down another grand when she turns 23?
Speaking of shmaltz herring (hopefully this is a topic that wont be nichshol anyone)…..
When I was younger, I once declined some shmaltz herring an older man put out for tikkun. He replied to me, vat, you dont eat shmaltz herring, maybe ve shud check de yichus?
Inyana DiYoma. Skeletons in the closet (and some already out).
“Eating shark …by mistake…what are the chances?”
About as likely as grilling skunk meat, the next time you want a burger.
If these odds dont sit well with you, you can always buy a whole fish with the fins and scales intact and have your mother/wife prepare it for you you can be 100% certain.
If memory serves me, dolphins are not fish, they are mammals, not that it sounds any better if canned.
B”H I dont know anyone OTD (unless everyone I know is OTD and we just dont realize it), but if I had to guess, yiras shamayim probably plays an important factor in decisions to “act out” and go OTD, although I would venture to guess that it is the lack of yiras shamayim that is lacking in those these people look up to as role models and mentors. If/when role models and mentors talk the talk, but dont walk the walk, you can be sure those being preached to, will walk.
You dont want to censor recipes, or divrei torah?
Perhaps patric is looking for information on the parents of Sidney.
Regarding a practice that developed within a society. Things might have become associated with certain holidays but it doesn’t make them religious activities. What comes to mind quickly is the “thanksgiving tradition” of NFL football in Dallas and Detroit, NBA basketball on December 25th and college bowl games on january 1st. I am no maven, but was suggesting that perhaps going door to door with a bucket to collect candies from your neighbors might be one such activity, as such it is not a religious practice even if it is associated with a “holiday”.
Regarding my request to contact Mod80 whoever he or she might be, it has nothing to do with establishing “contact” or a relationship in any way, nor does it have anything to do with my previous “name”, I want to continue a discussion that was closed, likely because of comments I made, to get answers to questions I won’t pose here for obvious reasons. If he/she is concerned about privacy, perhaps he/she can create an email address that is completely anonymous for this purpose. Of course if mr or mrs or perhaps ms 80 is completely uninterested in continuing said discussion, I understand as well and will drop it.
Not everything that develops in a society is religious in nature. It doesnt mean we should do it, but doing it doesnt mean we are following the practice of another religion.
Off topic. How can I contact “mod-80” via email? If Mod-80 chooses to put an email address here great, if not, can he/she email me at my email address in my profile.
I just received this weeks Partners in torah “Mentor Talk”. The subject of the email is “Should I try to stop this intermarriage?”
I dont feel comfortable posting the information without their permission, but, may I suggest calling 800-STUDY-4-2 and asking them to email it (this weeks Mentor Talk) to you.
I daven mincha in the YIoF several times a week, as a practice, this shul does say tachnun, so, if your father did not, it is probably because he grew up in a place where they did not say tachnun.
According to the pagan/xtian/moslem/atheist/hindu handbook, exactly how does one go about “celebrating” this holiday? Is ringing the doorbells in the neighborhood chanting trick or treat included in the handbook of any religion?
“the Chofetz Chaim says its a mitvza to speak bad about someone who went off the D and could be influential”
Is there such a concern with Mr. Mason?
“In a lot of Yeshivos, the Hanhala doesn’t take this seriously.”
they will, the very first time a member of the hanhala of a yeshiva is arrested for serving alcohol to minors.
“Halloween” (a contraction for “hallowed eve”, the evening preceeding “all saints day”) is a Christian holiday.”
Tell that to the Muslim and Atheist kids who come collecting candy 🙂
Mod-80, I assume you are talking to me, and quite frankly, you are free to believe whatever you want.
Bottom line is, that the overwhelming majority of Lubavithers in the world in the world today ascribe no divinity to the Rebbe, do not daven TO the rebbe and do NOT believe the Rebbe runs the world. I am not a Lubavitcher, however, I work with quite a few, live among almost a dozen Lubavitch families have close family (of the seven krovim) who TEACH in Crown Heights Yeshivos (boys and girls) and they report that what I said about the overwhelming majority Lubavitchers is true. Believe what you wish about them, they are not looking for your support or approval.
“alive means he’s a deity,”
No, just stupidity.
“and the ones who are educated and should know better should be hated”
Educated in what?
“And yes, it is k’fira and apikorsis to believe that a dead man can be Moshiach.”
Nobody believes in a second coming of the Rebbe. Those who still maintain that he is moshiach are those who maintain he did not die, but is rather in a state of “concealment” waiting for the appropriate time to reveal himself. As I and numerous people have already written (as does Rav Feldman in the letter that was linked here) stupidity does not equal apikorsus.
“So what is attributed to Rav Ahron Feldman and all the others, including my Rov, definately makes sense.”
Not if you read the letter of Rav Feldman that was linked yesterday.
“but they have substituted the Rebbe for HaKodeshBorchu and daven to the Rebbe directly, depend on him for their welfare and parnassah, and have transferred their emunah to him.”
There is a machlokes Rishonim about the permissibility of the tefilla “machnisei rachamim” which is found at the end of selichos. On the surface, it appears as if we are davening to the malachim, or utilizing them as intermediaries between us and hashem, both of which some members of Lubavitch are being accused of by some. And NO, nobody has transferred any Emunah to the Rebbe. They (as do many Chassidim) ask the Rebbe to daven for them. Many people go to the kevarim of tzadikim (even their own parents and grandparents) too. Perhaps many misunderstand exactly what it means to go to a Rebbe or daven at a Kever, especially someone who is not an FFB (as are many members of the Lubavitch community). It doesnt make them an Apikores. It makes them mistaken IF in fact you know what they are thinking, which I dont think anyone can safely say about the overwhelming majority of Lubavitchers around the world.
“The vast majority of Rabbonim and Roshe Yeshiva and Poskim all say that to believe that a dead man is Moshiach, is kefirah.”
Name 1, please. Please provide a source.
“Eating on the Street”
Did someone spread a blanket out on the street and have a picnic? What are you asking? If the concern is that people see you (IE the comment about sitting near the window of a restaurant), then why is sitting around the table with other people any different?
Regarding walking around and eating, even inside it may be an issue regarding brachos and bracha achrona, birchas hamazon (IE where is the kvius seuda etc…), depending how where you go from/to.
“Pashute Yid, it is precisely the misunderstanding of Kabbola statements like this,”
What kabballistic statement am I misunderstanding?
“When the psak came out from the secular court”
This statement sounds very strange. Verdict has a better ring to it 🙂
“Maybe it would help to point out that the idea of whiskey being bad mitzad atzmo comes from protestant Christianity?”
Or perhaps its because too much alcohol in your system can kill you.
Perhaps drunkeness in ofitself is abhorable. What does the midrash say about Noach planting a vine?
Doesn’t the mechaber discuss simcha shel mitvah and hoillelus with regard to simchas torah? Can getting drunk to the point of puking all over the next guy or staggering around the shul be considered simcha shel mitzvah?
With regard to Reviis, is it the same shiur for wine and hard liquor?
I am aware of a Rosh Yeshiva who had a no hard liquor policy in his yeshiva on simchas torah, and proceeded to have the bouncer he hired toss out several bachurim who tried bringing in several bottles.
“The Mishna Berurah writes that many places have the minhag to duchan on Simchas Torah by Shacharis (or not at all) because the Kohanim may be drunk”
A Reviis of wine is enough to passul a kohen from going to duchan. Perhaps the mishna berurah simply means the minhag is to duchan by shachris because many kohanim would have made kiddush and had a reviis of wine by the time mussaf comes along. That is how my Rav interprets the mishne brurah (some bachurim wanted to bring a proof from this mishne brurah that getting drunk on simchas torah is endorsed by the mishne brura and wanted the Rav to relinquish the keys to the closet where the liquor was kept).
Now that I read the letter (using the link provided above), I know for certain that the opinion of R’ Ahron Feldman Shlita is that appending Shlita after the name of someone no longer alive is not apikorsus. The letter is clear on that point. Why do you insist otherwise?
If I am an idiot and refuse to acknowledge that someone is dead, it does not make me an apikores. I am 100% certain Rav Ahron Feldman did NOT say what you claim he did simply because it makes no sense. I have no shaychus to him, and don’t know anyone who does either, so have no way to ask him. So, again, if you choose to believe that idiocy = apikorus, go right ahead. If you maintain Rav Feldman said so, believe it. I do not have to believe the equation or that Rav Feldman said it, and I do not.
I mentioned this thread to someone I believe can be called an intellectual. He commented. Intellectuals don’t debate, they discuss. Intellectual debate, he feels is an oxymoron (with emphasis on moron).
Why are we rating gedolim? Are you looking to start a new fantasy league? How do you score points if your team of gedolim has more talmidim? says more shiurim? gets their pictures into more newspapers?
If there was a rating for topics, this would rate at or near the bottom.
I’m not quite sure what the heir to the ming dynasty is trying to say. Probably because I am from the portion of the population who are not smart enough to know to avoid anonymous forums.
“Why was he the first rebbe that did not have a successor?”
This is a question you should address to someone in a leadership position in Chabad.
With respect to leadership, is Chabad any worse off than many other chassidussis (best I can do for the plural of chassidus)that have splintered, despite apparent successors being named? Would you prefer Chabad of 770 Eastern Parkway and Chabad of Utica Avenue?
Jothar, that is a red herring argument. I asked you, which of the ikkarim are violated by appending shlita to the name of a dead person. Please do not avoid the question by asking another question. If you choose not to answer, that’s fine. You also neglected to explain what is wrong with a group referring to their Rebbe as the nasi hador.