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The sad reality is that half of the Jewish nation subscribes to liberal secular democracy the other half of observant Jews on one level or another bought into Satmar ideology that wipes the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel out of the Torah. There are only a small fraction of Torah true Jews left in the world who still believe in all 613 mitzvos without exception includind the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel. Shimon and Levi today would have to belong to the small fraction who unfortunately are the most hunted today by the Israeli secular government. The Israeli GSS or Shabak has a special “Jewish department” who hunt and persecute anyone suspected of belonging to these true Jews. At one of the Otzma Yehudi rallies Rabbi Dov Lior encouraged the group not to worry about their popularity as also in Yetzias Mizrayim it says ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? only a small fraction merited to leave as the others were not worthy… By Mechiras Yosef and the Meraglim the Majority were wrong and the minority were right… Avraham Avinu was a Yachid vs many as was Moshe Rabenu, Yosef Hatzadik, Dovid Hamelech, Yirmiyah Hanavi, Yeshaya Hanavi, Mordechai Hatzadik, Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and more… At the end of the day in the Torah we find being afraid to conquer Eretz Yisroel is the sin of the Meraglim, going to conquer when it is not the time is the sin of the Maapilim. What it all depends on is if Hashem is commanding to do it now or not. The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times. All we have are way to many groups each claiming they and their Rabbis are the truth and all the others and their Rabbis are invalid.
Yankel Berel – With enough votes the laws granting power to the supreme court crooks can be changed as well, like any where else in the world.
Mathematically if all the Torah Jews in Israel would vote, and all the Torah jews of the world come to Israel and vote, they would be hands down the largest and ruling party. Hence in this day and age no matter what the original founders of the state had in mind it is the Torah Jews in Israel who refuse to vote and the Torah Jews of the world who refuse to move to Israel and vote who are solely responsible for the continued secular rule in the state of Israel. In this day and age all the complaints of the anti state of Israel Torah Jews are 100% self inflicted.
If all Torah Jews move to Israel the Greek rulers of Israel (the Supreme Court) can finally be voted out and a true Jewish State can rise. This is the only real solution. The Israeli supreme court who are the modern day greeks remain in power only because of the large segments of Torah Jews who refuse to come and vote. If all Torah Jews of the world come and vote they will be hands down the largest party in the Knesset. Do the math.
Indeed Secualar Zionism is a modern, secular movement that contradicts the foundational principles of Jewish faith. However, the the belief in a divinely-ordained exile that can only be ended by the Messiah contradicts many foundational principles of Jewish faith no less.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Yaakov Yosef:
You have taken ONE side that claims a huge chiddush with little support.
Below is an essay proving exactly the opposite.
Regardless, the entire discussion would only apply to a BIOLOGICAL LEVI, any applying of Levi status and priviliges to NON BIOLOGICAL LEVIIM is a total FABRICATION with no source at all. ANY NON BIOLGICAL LEVI WHO EATS TRUMA OR MAASER NO MATTER HOW MUSH TORAH HE LEARNS VIOLATES TORAH COMMANDMENTS.??? ????”? ??:
[?] ?? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ????, ??? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ?????, ????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?????.
[??] ???? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???, ??? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????.
[??] ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ????, ???? ?????? ????? ?? ?’ ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????, ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????. ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????, ??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?’ ????, ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??????.
[??] ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?’ ????? ??????? ???? ?? ?’ ???? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????, ??? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?’ ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ?? ???”? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ?????, ??? ??? ?”? ???? ?’ ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????.
?. ????? ??????? ?? ???? ????”?
???? ????”? ??????, ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?????:1) ????? ????? ???? ????”? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????, ??? ????”? ???? ???? ?????? ????? (?”? ?”?):
??? ????? ?????? ???????? ????? ??? ?????? ??????, ?????? ?????, ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??????.
?????”? ????? (??, ?”? ?”?):
…??? ?? ??? ????? ????, ?? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ?????… ????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????.
???? ??????? ?????, ???? ????? ????? ???? – ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??, ????? ??? ???? ?????, ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ????: ‘??? ???? ????? ??? ???’. ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?????. ?? ?? ????, ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???, ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????, ????? ??????? ????? ?? ??? ????.
??? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ????”? ???? ??? ?????? ????, ?????, ??? ????, ??? ??? ??? ??? ??????, ??? ?? ??? ???? ??????, ??? ????? ????”? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??. ?? ????? ????”? (??, ?”? ?”?):
?????? ?? ??????, ?????? ??? ?????? ????, ???? ????? ???? ????, ????? ?????? ???? ?????, ????? ?????? ??????, ?? ????? ????? ??????, ???? ????.
??? ??? ????”? ????? ??? (??, ?”? ?”?):
????? ??? ??????? ????? ????”? ??????? ????? ???, ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ????… ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ????… ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??????…
????? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? ?????????: ??? ???? ??????, ??? ????? ?????? ??????, ??? ??? ???? ????. ???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ????, ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ?? ?????? ????, ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ????,[2] ???? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?? ???! ??? ??? ?? ????, ???? ????”? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ????, ?? ????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?????, ????? ????: ????? ????? ????”? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????”? ????????’?? ??? ??? ????, ??? ???? ??”?.
2) ????? ?”? (??’ ????”? ??) ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ????? ?? ?’. ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ????, ???? ????? ????, ???????? ??????? ??? ?? ??????? ???????. ????? ??? ????? ?”? ???? ????”? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?????, ???? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???????? ??????? ???? ????? ??????!
3) ???? ???? ????”? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????, ??? ?????? ????? ???????????
4) ?????? ????? (?”?, ?”?) ????? ????”? ?? ???? ???? ??????: ‘?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???”, ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???????. ???? ?????? ?? ????”? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???, ????? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???????
?. ????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????”?
???? ‘??? ???? ?? ????? ???’ ?? ????? ????? ?????, ?????? ???? ????? ????? (??”? ??”?), ???? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??”?. ???? ???? ??? ???.[3]?? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????. ?????? ????? ???? ??????, ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ????. ?? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ‘??? ????’, ???? ‘????? ???????’ ????? ???? ???’.[4] ????? ?????? ????, ??? ????? ???? ????? ????”? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????![5]
???? ‘???? ???'[6] ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??????. ?????? ??? ??????, ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??, ??? ???????, ????? ?????? ?????? ??, ??? ?????? ???????? ??? ???????. ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?????. ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ???, ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????.
?) ?? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??????, ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????.?) ???? ???, ??????? ????? ????? ??????? ???? – ??? ?? ??? – ???? ??????. ?? ??? ??”? (???? ?? ?”?): ‘?????? ???? ????? ???? ????… ???? ??? ???? – ????? ????? ????? ????’. ?? ???? ?? ??????? ???”? (?????? ?? ?”?):
?????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????… ?????? ??? ???????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??.
?????, ?? ???”? ?? ??????? ???”?, ??? ???? ????? ????. ??? ??? ?? ???”? (????? ?, ??):
????”? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????, ?????? ?????? ?’ ??? ????. ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??????, ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????. ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?????.
????? ?? ????? ??????, ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???????? ?????.
?) ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ???? ????? – ?? ??? ????? ?????? ????[7] ??? ??????? ??????? ????,[8] ??? ???? ?????? ??.[9]
?) ????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?????? (??? ??’ ??????? ???????), ???? ????? ??? ???. ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ????, ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?????.
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??? ???? – ????? ??? ??? ??? ????, ??? ????? ??? ???? ?????, ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???, ???”? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????, ????? ??”? ????”? ??? ?”? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????, ?”? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?’ ??????? ?? ??.
???? ???”? ?? ????? (??’ ??), ?????? ????? ‘????? ??? ???’ ?? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ???????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ?????, ??? ??? ????? ????? ??????: ‘??? ???? ??? ???? ?????, ????? ??? ???’. ??? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ??????:
?) ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ????”? ????, ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?????, ???? ????? ????.[11]
?) ????? ????? ?? ???? ?????: ‘??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ???’ – ?? ??? ???”?. ??? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???????: ???? ??????? (????? ?????? ?????) ??? ??? ?? ????. ??? ????, ?? ????? ??????? ‘?????’, ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??????, ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ‘?????’ ??????? ????”?[12] ??? ‘????? ????’,[13] ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???????, ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ??????. ???, ????? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ??????.
???? ??? ???? ??????? (????? ??) ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?????, ???????:
???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???, ??? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??????. ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????????, ?? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????.
??? ????? ???????? ???? ???? ?????:
?) ????? ???? ????????, ??????, ?? ?????, ???? ??? ??? ???????. ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ‘?????’ ?? ??? ???, ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ????; ??? ??? ???? ‘??????’ ?? ??? ???, ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????. ?? ?? ??, ????? ????? ???? ????? ????????.
?) ??????? ???? ????, ??????, ????? ????. ????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?????, ???? ??”? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??????! ??? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???, ??? ????? ??? ??? ?? ?? ????, ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???, ??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ????. ??? ???, ???? ??? ??? ???????, ????? ????? ??? ?? ?????.
?’???? ????'[14] ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????, ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ????. ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? (?? ????? ?????? ?????? ????), ???? ?????? ??????. ??? ????? ?? ?????:
?) ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????”? ????, ?’???’, ???? ??? ???, ?????? ?????? ????? – ?????? ????? ?? ??????.?) ?? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?? ?????, ????? ?? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??????, ???? ??? ??”? ???? ????? ????????[15]
???? ‘??? ????”?'[16] ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??????, ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???????. ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????:
?) ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???’ ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???????, ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?????, ?? ?????? ???? ???????, ??”? ????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??????) ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??????, ????? ????, ?? ???? ????”? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????.
???”? ??”? ??? ??????? ‘???? ???'[17] ???? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?????, ??? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ????. ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????”? ????, ?????? ????? ????? ??”?, ???? ??:
…????? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????, ??? ?? ??? ???…????? ????”? ???? ????, ???? ?????? ???? ????. ??? ?????? ??, ???? ????”? ???:
?) ????? ? (??) ??? ????”? ?? ‘?? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ????, ??? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ?????…’. ????”? ??? ???? ?????? ???: ??? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ??????. ??? ?? ????? ??: ‘???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???????’, ??? ???? ??????: ??????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???’!
?) ?????? ????? (?”? ?”?) ????”? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????, ???? ??? ???, ???? ???? (?? ?”? ?”?) ?? ?? ????? ????? ????!
?) ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ????”? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ?’ (???? ??), ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???????, ?”? ???? ????”? (???? ??) ???? ??? ???? ????? ???”?, ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ??????
???? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?’ ???’, ?? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??’, ??? ??? ????? ??????. ????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???, ??? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???, ??? ?? ???? ??????, ????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ????. ???, ?? ????? ?? ???, ??? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?????, ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???, ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????, ?”? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???’ ??? ???? ???????
??? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ‘??? ?????’ (??’ ????”? ??”? ??”?) ????? ???? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????, ??? ?? ????? ??????, ???? ?????? ??? ?’??? ??? ??? ????’ ????? ?? ????? ??????. ???, ?? ?? ????? ?? ?????:
?) ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ????”? ???? ???????? ?? ????, ???? ??? ???, ???? ?????? ???????) ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?????, ???? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ????. ????? ?? ??? ????? ???? (???? ?2) ??????.
?) ????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??????, ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???????, ?”? ??? ????: ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????, ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ???, ??? ??? ?? ???? ???, ????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? – ???, ????? ????.
?) ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???????.
??? ????”? ????????’?? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ?????? ??????, ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ???. ????? ??? ??? ????? ??????, ???? ?????? ?????, ?? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????, ??? ??? ?????? ????’, ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????, ???? ???? ????? ?? ?????: ?????, ??????, ?????? ????. ????? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????????? ???????. ????? ??? ?? ???????, ????? ???, ?? ????? ??????? ????. ?? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????, ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??????. ????? ???? ????? ????”? ?????? ????? ??????? ?’???? ?????? ????? ???? ?????’ – ??? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ????, ????? ????, ??? ???? ‘????? ?????? ????? ???’. ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? (????? ? ?”?):
??? ????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? – ??? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ?????. ??”? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? (??????? ?? ?”?) ??????? ?????? ?? ?????…????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ??????, ??? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ?????.
????”? ???, ??? ?’??? ????’ (??”? ??”?):
????? ???”? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?????, ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ????? ?? ???, ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ?????, ??? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?’ ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?’ ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???.???? ??? ???, ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???????, ???? ?????? ????. ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????. ?????, ??????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ???????, ??? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ?’. ??? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????, ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????. ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ????”? ?????? (?”? ?”?):
??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????, ??? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ?????.
????”? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??????, ????? ??????. ?) ????? ?????, ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????, ??? ???? ????? ????, ????? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ?”? ?? ?? ?????? ???. ?) ????? ?????, ???? ???? ?????, ?? ??? ?? ?? ?”? ?? ???? ?????? ??????. ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????????. ?????? ?? ??? ?????, ???? ?????? ????? ????????, ?? ?? ???? ??? ????, ??? ??? ????????? ??????? ??????. ????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???.
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??? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???????: ?? ?? ????”? ????????’?? ??? ?? ????”? ???. ???? ?????, ??? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ????. ?? ??? ???? ???? ??????: ????”? ????????’?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????????, ???? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ?????. ????? ??? ???? ????”? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ???????.[18] ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ?????? ????? ????”?:?) ??? ?? ????? ????? ????”?. ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????, ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?????, ????”? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ??????, ???? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????, ????? ????’, ?? ?? ?????? ??????? ??????.
?) ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????, ???????? ??? ???? ??????? ??????.
?) ???? ???? ????”? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????. ???? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ?????, ??? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??????, ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?????. ?? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????, ?? ??? ??? ????, ?? ?????? ??????.
?) ??? ??????, ??? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??’, ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??”?, ??? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ?????. ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ???????, ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ??? ??????, ?? ?????? ???? ????? (‘?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????’ ???’), ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ???’. ??? ????? ????? (????? ??? ????? ???):
????? ?’ ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????… ????? ?’ ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????. ??? ???? ?????? – ?? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ????.
????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ????? ??”?, ??????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????.
???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????”? (????? ????? ?????, ?? ??”?): ‘??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????…’ – ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ?????.
Chazit35
Rabbi Akiva brought in the Medarash brought by Rashi on Chumash argues on you..:
???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? (????? ???”?) ?? ????? (????? ??, ?) ????? ????????? ????? ????????? ????? ??????? ?????????? ??????????? ????????. “??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ???”
The reason not to join the Israeli army is because the decisions are made by secular politicians, lawmakers and judges, a Torah Jew has no right to place his life in the hands of secular decision makers who send soldiers to die en masse instead of carpet bombing from the air. All other reasons and discussions are mere attempts to distract attention from the plain and simple truth. In the army of a genuine Malchus Yisroel Torah Jews will be the first to join like Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and his sons.
The biggest enemy of the Jewish nation today is not Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah or anyone else. The biggest enemy today is the Israeli Supreme Court who are the enablers and supporters of the terrorists. Every day they brutally send thousands of soldiers to die. A true Jewish army fights against these wicked people not for them!
Mathematically if all Torah Jews in Israel would just vote as well as the Torah jews of the world just come to Israel and vote they would be hands down the largest and ruling party. Hence in this day and age no matter what the original founders if the state had in mind it is the Torah Jews who refuse to vote who are solely responsible for the continued secular rule in the state of Israel. In this day and age all the complaints of all the anti Israel public are 100% self inflicted.
The reason not to join the Israeli army is because the decisions are made by secular politicians, lawmakers and judges, a Torah Jew has no right to place his life in the hands of secular decision makers who send soldiers to die en masse instead of carpet bombing from the air. All other reasons and discussions are mere attempts to distract attention from the plain and simple truth. In the army of a genuine Malchus Yisroel Torah Jews will be the first to join like Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and his sons.
The reason to not join the Israeli army is because the decisions are made by secular politicians, lawmakers and judges, a Torah Jew has no right to place his life in the hands of secular decision makers who send soldiers to die en masse instead of carpet bombing from the air. All other reasons and discussions are mere attempts to distract attention from the plain and simple truth. In the army of a genuine Malchus Yisroel Torah Jews from all backgrounds and professions will be the first to join like Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and his sons.
Hakatan, Zionism denies and defies the Torah Satmar changed the Torah, one is kefira the other apikarsus. Your belief in the new “commandment to be loyal to the nations” and the cancelling of the authentic commandments to conquer and settle the Holy Land are what sets you and Satmar (and anyone with that false belief) apart from genuine Judaism and the Torah that was given at Har Sinai.
The sad reality is that half of the Jewish nation subscribes to liberal secular democracy the other half of observant Jews on one level or another bought into Satmar ideology that wipes the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel out of the Torah. There are only a small fraction of Torah true Jews left in the world who still believe in all 613 mitzvos without exception includind the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel. Shimon and Levi today would have to belong to the small fraction who unfortunately are the most hunted today by the Israeli secular government. The Israeli GSS or Shabak has a special “Jewish department” who hunt and persecute anyone suspected of belonging to these true Jews. At one of the Otzma Yehudi rallies Rabbi Dov Lior encouraged the group not to worry about their popularity as also in Yetzias Mizrayim it says ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? only a small fraction merited to leave as the others were not worthy… By Mechiras Yosef and the Meraglim the Majority were wrong and the minority were right… Avraham Avinu was a Yachid vs many as was Moshe Rabenu, Yosef Hatzadik, Dovid Hamelech, Yirmiyah Hanavi, Yeshaya Hanavi, Mordechai Hatzadik, Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and more… At the end of the day in the Torah we find being afraid to conquer Eretz Yisroel is the sin of the Meraglim, going to conquer when it is not the time is the sin of the Maapilim. What it all depends on is if Hashem is commanding to do it now or not. The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times. All we have are way to many groups each claiming they and their Rabbis are the truth and all the others and their Rabbis are invalid.
The sad reality is that half of the Jewish nation subscribes to liberal secular democracy the other half of observant Jews on one level or another bought into Satmar ideology that wipes the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel out of the Torah. There are only a small fraction of Torah true Jews left in the world who still believe in all 613 mitzvos without exception includind the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel. Shimon and Levi today would have to belong to the small fraction who unfortunately are the most hunted today by the Israeli secular government. The Israeli GSS or Shabak has a special “Jewish department” who hunt and persecute anyone suspected of belonging to these true Jews. At one of the Otzma Yehudi rallies Rabbi Dov Lior encouraged the group not to worry about their popularity as also in Yetzias Mizrayim it says ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? only a small fraction merited to leave as the others were not worthy… By Mechiras Yosef and the Meraglim the Majority were wrong and the minority were right… Avraham Avinu was a Yachid vs many as was Moshe Rabenu, Yosef Hatzadik, Dovid Hamelech, Yirmiyah Hanavi, Yeshaya Hanavi, Mordechai Hatzadik, Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and more… At the end of the day in the Torah we find being afraid to conquer Eretz Yisroel is the sin of the Meraglim, going to conquer when it is not the time is the sin of the Maapilim. What it all depends on is if Hashem is commanding to do it now or not. The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times. All we have are way to many groups each claiming they and their Rabbis are the truth and all the others and their Rabbis are invalid.
Yuma 9B gives the clearest answer to the question in this post:
??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?”? ???? ?????
??????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????”? ???? ????? ????? ????? (???? ?, ??) ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ?’ ????? ???? ??? ?’ ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???”? ?’ ????? ???? ?’ ?????? ????? ????? (???? ?, ??) ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????? (?????? ??, ??) ????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??”? (??????) ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? (?????? ??, ??) ??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?’ ????? ??”? ????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?”? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????Yuma 9B gives the clearest answer to the question of this post:
??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?”? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????”? ???? ????? ????? ????? (???? ?, ??) ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ?’ ????? ???? ??? ?’ ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???”? ?’ ????? ???? ?’ ?????? ????? ????? (???? ?, ??) ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????? (?????? ??, ??) ????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??”? (??????) ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? (?????? ??, ??) ??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?’ ????? ??”? ????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?”? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????
The Sefer Hachinuch counts rebuilding the Beis Hamikdash as one of the 613 commandments, he writes the commandment is binding when most of Klal Yisroel lives on their land. Acc. to the official numbers of Jews in the world today we are pretty close if not their already.
The sad reality is that half of the Jewish nation subscribes to liberal secular democracy the other half of observant Jews on one level or another bought into Satmar ideology that wipes the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel out of the Torah. It is The Satmar New Testament which replaces the Ten Commandments with the 3 Oaths that are not brought by any traditional halachic authority. There are only a small fraction of Torah true Jews left in the world who still believe in all 613 mitzvos without exception including the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel. Shimon and Levi as well as the Chashmonaim today would have to belong to the small fraction who unfortunately are the most hunted today by the Israeli secular government. The Israeli GSS or Shabak has a special “Jewish department” who hunt and persecute anyone suspected of belonging to these true Jews. At one of the Otzma Yehudi rallies Rabbi Dov Lior encouraged the group not to worry about their popularity as also in Yetzias Mizrayim it says ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? only a small fraction merited to leave as the others were not worthy… By Mechiras Yosef and the Meraglim the Majority were wrong and the minority were right… Avraham Avinu was a Yachid vs many as was Moshe Rabenu, Yosef Hatzadik, Dovid Hamelech, Yirmiyah Hanavi, Yeshaya Hanavi, Mordechai Hatzadik, Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and more… At the end of the day in the Torah we find being afraid to conquer Eretz Yisroel is the sin of the Meraglim, going to conquer when it is not the time is the sin of the Maapilim. What it all depends on is if Hashem is commanding to do it now or not. The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times. All we have are way to many groups each claiming they and their Rabbis are the truth and all the others and their Rabbis are invalid.Menachem shmei —- The Chinuch writes the mitzva to build the Beis Hamikdash is when most of the Jewish nation are living in Eretz Yisroel today we are either there already or pretty close. The Rambam writes very clearly noone knows exactly how things will play out until it will happen. You are simply fabricating halachos in the name of “poskim” according to your own whim.
The tragic status of the Jewish nation today regarding the Beis Hamikdash;
100% pray for it
50% are secular and have little or no interest in it.
45% are religious but adopted to some extent or another Satmar ideology that it can only be achieved through 100% super natural means.
5% are ready to do whatever is necessary to actually rebuild the Beis Hamikdash any way possible.
The Sefer Hachinuch counts rebuilding the Beis Hamikdash as one of the 613 commandments, he writes the commandment is binding when most of Klal Yisroel lives on their land. Acc. to the official numbers of Jews in the world today we are pretty close if not their already.
At one of the Otzma Yehudi rallies Rabbi Dov Lior encouraged the group not to worry about their popularity as also in Yetzias Mizrayim it says ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? only a small fraction merited to leave as the others were not worthy…
By Mechiras Yosef and the Meraglim the Majority were wrong and the minority were right…
Avraham Avinu was a Yachid vs many as was Moshe Rabenu, Yosef Hatzadik, Dovid Hamelech, Yirmiyah Hanavi, Yeshaya Hanavi, Mordechai Hatzadik, Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and more…
At the end of the day in the Torah we find being afraid to conquer Eretz Yisroel is the sin of the Meraglim, going to conquer when it is not the time is the sin of the Maapilim. What it all depends on is if Hashem is commanding to do it now or not.
The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times. All we have are way to many groups each claiming they and their Rabbis are the truth and all the others and their Rabbis are invalid.
The problem with the Israeli army is the decisions are made by secular politicians, lawmakers and judges, a Torah Jew has no right to place his life in the hands of secular decision makers who send soldiers to die en masse instead of carpet bombing from the air. All other reasons and discussions are mere attempts to distract attention from this plain and simple truth. The Israeli Supreme Court are the biggest misyavnim in the world. True Chasmonaim fight against them not for them. In the army of a genuine Malchus Yisroel Torah Jews will be the first to join like Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and his sons.
Any school acting in the way described in this letter has NO connection to TORAH or JUDAISM no matter how long their beard and Peyos are. Hashem in his kindness is sending you the clearest message to stay far away from these fakers. Look for a genuine Jewish school that follows the original and traditional Torah.
Netanyahu is a war criminal for his years of criminal negligence and cultivating of Hamas and for failing to respond with decisive and lethal force after Oct. 7., He absolutely belongs in jail. At this point it really doesn’t matter which jail he goes to. The sooner the better. He is a Mega Narcissist who will do anything to stay in power no number of dead Jewish soldiers’ or civilians makes any difference to him.
The dream of all believing Jews is to return to Eretz Yisroel as promised in the Torah and stipulated in the first Rashi in Chumash. Anyone without this belief / dream is not a fully faithful Jew.
????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ????????? ??????????? ??????????? ????????, ???????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???????? ??????. ??????????? ????????????? ???????? ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????????: ???????? ?????, ???????? ????????, ???????????? ???????. ????????? ?????, ?????? ????????? ??????????? ????????????? ???????? ????. ?????? ??????????? ????????, ?????????: ?????????? ?????????? ???????????? ??????????? ????????? ?????? ???????????? ???????? ?????????? ????? ?? ??????????? ?????? ????? ?? ????????????? ??? ?????? ???????? ??????. ????????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ???? ??????? ????????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ???????????, ???????????: ?????? ???????????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?????????????? ??????? ???????? ????? ???????? ???????? ??????.
The above is a quote from Yuma 9B.
Unfortunately, with all the Torah being learned and chessed being performed, when heads of these institutions can be found fighting each other in court, our generation is seemingly plagued with the sins of both batei mikdash mentioned in the above gemara.
Sinas Chinam means hating people for no reason other than their mere existence.
Until we learn genuine love of Hashem and our fellow Jew, and how to view them as complementary and not competitors, our beloved father in heaven who promised our forefathers not to forsake us will keep forcing us to continue improving.
Nothing has happened that it not spelled out in parshas Bechukosay.
Just as these parts of the Torah have been fulfilled to the letter so to will all the other parts of the Torah promising our eventual full repentance and resulting blessings.
Not likely a student of Rabbi Kahane would call himself doom…
In his own book Rabbi Kahane records several attempts of the Mossad to eliminate him take a look…
Avira, people who have nothing factual to present almost always resort to who’s who and personal assault… not new…
B”h the Rambam and others also record the Torah commandments regarding milchama and Eretz yisroel as eternal commandments that are part of our Mesorah.
If anything it is the people who follow a modern era leader who tries to uproot explicit pesukim gemaras and rishonim and declare them no longer relevant who are much closer to “divergent” and the people on the rest of your list.
You might feel that you and your type have a monopoly on Mesorah but there is a large segment of Klal Yisroel with alternative Mesorah to yours and plenty of Torah backing.
BTW Rabbi Kahane was more likely murdered by the leftist Israeli Mossad who were afraid of him and his movement and for good reason you can read up on that if you’d like,
The problem is the majority of Jews still refuse to vote in leaders who are willing to win the war according to the Torah way. The majority are afraid of the Goyim (or realistic, practical and responsible in their eyes) and think the only solution is to try to walk in between the drops and wait for the Goyim to have mercy on us.
The attack on simchas torah proves that either the Satmar Rebbe or Rabbi Meir Kahane (who was mechadesh nothing, all he did was dare to read the Pesukim and commandments in the Torah regarding how to conquer Eretz Yisroel out loud. Rav Kahane did not add one letter to the Torah all he said is that these pesukim hold true today for us as well) were right.
The sevaras hamachlokes between Rav Kahane and the Satmar Rav is if todays conquering of Eretz Yisroel has the issur of the Maapilim or those who fear the Goyim are continuing the sin of the Meraglim fearing goyim instead of trusting in Hashem.
Like then it depends on whether or not there is a tzivuy of Aleh El Hahar now or not this is what it all depends on.
ujm – The Rambam and Rashbam argue on the Ran over there, Chasam Sofer in Teshuvos choshen mishpat 44 also limits the Ran as well to taxes imposed by the king for his personal needs as opposed to things imposed for public welfare which even the Ran would agree to.
Avira dearah do you have a mareh makom where Rav Kanievsky writes what you claim??
One of the 7 mitzvos pf Bnei Noach is to set up courts and laws, no matter what you think of the government in israel why would their courts be worse than at least other bnei noach??
Anywhere there are heads of mosdos turning away jewish children from jewish schools for the sake of personal profit.
by1212 –
Unless you insist on continuing to hold your hands tight over your eyes it is crystal clear from the actions of putin in his own country (even without looking at his actions to his neighbors) the last decade that he is a mad tyrant and the biggest threat in the world today to become hitler 2.0.
After ww2 anyone who suggests that tyrants should be left alone and allowed to continue growing stronger in peace is simply fooling themselves and kicking the barrel down the road.
if there’s one lesson that was learned from ww2 it is that tyrants need to be cut off asap.
For the record it is Russia who intervened in 1967 and prevented Israel from completely winning the war and chase away all the Arabs. It is thanks to Russia that the arabs remain in Israel and cause all the trouble they cause until today.
It is Russia who is the main obstacle today in allowing Israel freedom to act against their agressors, if one thinks about it it is Russia who is the main obstacle today that prevents Israel from removing the mosque and building a Beis Hamikdash.
These are historical facts as recorded here
no outside links
Akuperma and midwesterner –
Avigdor Lieberman is a sly opportunist who changes ideologies as per the political climate at times a friend of the charedim and at times not, in order to stay in power, check the history of his positions.
Yair lapid has no hatred or interest in interfering with the lifestyle of observant Jews rather he is advocating for the interest of the less observant general public.
The enablers of both of them are the Likud and the charedim who will not let go of their idol Netanyahu and no matter what insist they must stick to him to the bitter end and beyond.
It is a clear fact that the moment Netanyahu steps a purely right wing jewish government can immediately be formed with around 70 members of knesset.
One of the biggest lies in the world today is that the religious zionist faction of the government is making anti religious decrees anyone who checks the facts can see that none of Matan Kahane’s laws are violating any halacha rather quite the opposite.
Most of the reforms of Matan Kahane is fulfilling the command of the Navi Hater Charzuvos Resha! Long overdue!
akuperma –
The only place the zionists you describe still exist is in your head and the head of people like you still harboring hatred to an ancient and mostly extinct movement.
In todays Tel Aviv there is almost noone who has any interest whatsoever in imposing work on shabbos on anyone who wishes to observe shabbos. There is mass ignorance and that’s it, the majority of Jews in Israel observe shaboss and other yomim tovim in some way or another.
Why spread baseless hatred?
BY1212
How does your “Science” explain the fact that New Zealand has only 53 Covid deaths to date???
Hopefully you will come back to your senses and will admit the mistakes of these past 2 years so you don’t repeat them and lead to more unnecessary and avoidable deaths chas veshalom.
Which “treatment” are you referring to the free tuition, health insurance, monthy kollel checks, or maybe the free plots of land for shuls and yeshivos?
In New Zealand people wear masks and keep social distancing when necessary and they have 40 dead to date.
While the protection of masks to the mask wearer is disputed, the fact that masks prevent the spreading of the disease is undisputed and proven by the numbers.
Masks and social distancing are the only measures proven to work.
It is sad and tragic that so many have died bec. of refusal of people to wear masks.
tiawd –
I don’t know of any frum yid that disagrees with the fact that the Neshama is a creation despite their understanding of the word mamash in the Tanya and / or the word gamur in the Nefesh Hachaim.
As stated above once all agree on the basic principles of ??? ??? ????? and Hashems Oneness as explained by the Rambam, Chovos Halevavos, Tanya and the Nefesh Hachaim any other differences are what chazal call ?????? ?????? ???? ???????.
Perhaps a much more important topic for discussion in the frum world is the fact that in the past months in Israel around 23 people have been dying a day from Covid (about a third of them fully vaccinated) who would have otherwise seemingly been alive if not for the adamant refusal of people especially orthodox and ultra orthodox to wear masks in closed spaces as instructed by the health ministry (while the protection to the mask wearer is disputed, the protection to the people around the mask wearer is almost undisputed). Especially after the vaccine roll out this unfortunate behavior seems to have almost complete rabbinic support across the entire spectrum of orthodox Judaism.
What happened to ?? ????? ?? ?? ????
What happened to ?? ?????
What happened to ?? ????? ??? ??? ??????…?
What happened to ????? ????? ????????
Are all the above mere empty slogans?
How come when it comes to ????? most charedim will not touch a Rabanut Hechsher with a ten foot pole but when it comes to ???? which is much more ???? than ????? the charedim are more secular than the secular???????
A young grandson of the head of the beis din in Yerushalayim (“???? ??????”) passed away from covid this week, can the dayanim on that beis din bring an ???? ????? and say ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??????
Can anyone imagine the Kiddush Hashem it would have caused around the world had the charedim shown with their behavior this past year that all the above commandments and principles are not just empty statements that are ignored when they need to be acted upon????
Is it not an immeasurable tragedy that instead of being a light unto the nations and leaders of the world when it came to value for life as we were commanded to, the vast majority of “frum” communities around the world showed regarding covid that just the opposite is how we act????
The problem today of “Torah-observant Jews” who are “unwitting murderers” is far greater than the problem of “Torah-observant Jews” who you think might be “unwitting heretics”.
tiawd –
The Baal Hatanya did not only “not make up the idea of the neshama being a ??? ?-??? ???? out of nowhere” rather it is a well established fundamental idea before and after the Baal Hatanya with sources before and after Lubavitch.The Nefesh Hachaim also uses the word ???? in his statement “????’ ????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????”, the meaning of ?????? is also not as simple as you suggested.
One thing is absolutely clear and unanimously stated by all the sources here; as much as it is a creation, the Neshama is a unique creation sourced much higher than all other creations, this is the point of the Baal Hatanya and the Nefesh Hachaim here.
As the Chovos Halevavos writes, only a fool spends his time trying to understand the essence of HKBH, when you finish (??????) explaining the essence of HKBH you can expect to understand exactly how mamash or not mamash, gamur or not gamur the Chelek Eloka Mimaal is.
The main “equivalence” intended in my last question was that as stated here above, in the context of a proper understanding of ??? ??? ????? and the true meaning of Hashem’s Oneness your “questions” are just as much of a “Klotz” question as that question is, certainly not grounds to call into question the legitimacy of the Baal Hatanya or those inspired by him and suggest that there is any problem with their ?????.
As stated above, when it comes to the actions and behavior of people which is what really matters at the end of the day, the damage of people who underestimate the power of this idea is far greater than those who you think may have gone “overboard” with this idea.
tiawd –
As I stated in my posts above, there are plenty of additional sources for the idea of the Tanya from sources not known to be affiliated with Lubavitch.
There is the statement quoted by many in the name of the Zohar ; ??? ???? ?????? ???.
The Nefesh Hachaim in ??? ? ??? ? and ??? ?? explains the Neshama pretty close if not the same as the Tanya.
I remember Rav avigdor Miller as well using the idea of Chelek Eloka Momaal to explain the words of the Chovos Halevavos who says in his Hakdama that ????? ????? ??? ??? is one of the three possible sources for dinim that are ????????! The Gemara says ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? and Rav Miller’s explanation is this idea of the Chovos Halevavos that as Chelek Eloka Mimaal the ???? of an “undamaged mind” has the status of ????????!
Your statement above “It is much more dangerous to blur the line between G-d and man than to over-emphasize the gap between us and Hashem, even if that is also a mistake.” is a fatal error and quite the contrary is the case.
It is the idea of Chelek Eloka Mimaal that has the power to inspire people (who view themselves and others as Chelek Eloka Mimaal) to emulate Hashem and seek to bestow kindness on others like Avaraham Avinu, to “over-emphasize the gap between us and Hashem” especially when it is “a mistake” as you suggest, is what leads people to lose all sense of humanity and sink to the level of animals in their own behavior and especially in their behavior towards others.
I don’t think anyone has ever gone off the derech by getting “carried away” with the idea of Chelek Eloka Mimaal (aside for Pharaoh and a few others) while an unfortunate amount of people have sunk to unthinkable levels of inhumanity due to the idea being neglected.
Philosophically the “fallacy” and “absurdity” (as well put by Yechi above) of your questions are well exposed in my posts above, after a basic understanding of ??? ??? ?????, as explained by others in addition to the Tanya, you’re questions are all what is known in the Beis Medrash as a “Klotz Kasha”.
Your questions are like a question I once heard from a Lomdishe rebbe of mine who asked, why is it muttar to daven while wearing Tefillin if it is assur to be ???? ??? from ones Tefiliin?
I will leave off with one more question for you, it says ??? ????? ?’ ???’ ?’ ??? how can there be Hashem and Elokim if “G-d cannot be divided into parts.”??
tiawd –
Not sure how you understood me to be saying “the Tanya said so, so it must be true”.
There are three honest ways to address the words of the Tanya (or anyone else):
1. He means what he says.
2. There is a typo and he never said it.
3. I disagree with him.
To say there is no typo but he he doesn’t mean it literally when he specifically says “Mamash” is dishonest interpretation and distortion of what was written.
If you are coming to say you disagree with the Tanya that is your issue and between you and the Tanya.
Once again this has zero to do with Chasidim vs anyone else, this is about honest interpretation of words written by a Torah Scholar.
Here are the words of the Nefesh Hachaim Shaar 1 Perek 15 regarding the Neshama seemingly also referring to at least part of the Neshama as “????? ????” :
???? ????? ?????. ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??”?. ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????”? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ????. ??? ????”? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ?’ ?????? ??”?. ????’ ????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????. ??”? ??”? ??? ???? ?”?. ????? ??? ????. ?????? ???”?. ?????? ???”? ?”?. ????? ????? ?”?. ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???. ?? ?????? ????? ??? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????. ?? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ????’. ??’ ??”? ??? ??”? ?’ ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ?”? ??’. ???”? ??? ?”? ?”? ??? ??? ??’ ???? ???? ???’ ??? ???? ?????? ??’. ???? ???’ ?????? ????? ????? ????’ ???’ ??”? ????? ??’ ??? ?????. ????? ????? ????? ???’ ???? ???? ??? ???? ???’ ???? ???? ?”?. ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ????”?. ???”? ??”? ?? ?? (?”? ??, ?) ???? ????? ????? ????? ???”? (??? ?”? ?’) ????? ??’ ?????? ???? ??’. ????? ??”? ??? ????? ?????? ?”? ?”? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???. ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??’ ?? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??’ ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?”?. ????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????. ?????:
tiawd –
I think the Tanya was well aware of ideas we are not allowed to believe and nevertheless wrote what he wrote including the word “Mamash”.
As explained here above, once the principles of ??? ??? ????? and the true meaning of Hashems unity are clear the Tanya’s idea is very understandable.
If you feel you have more to add than what was described here to explain what ??? ???? ???? or the balloon mashal brought in the name of the Zohar means, you are more than welcome to do so.
Most important is to not even come across as undermining this powerful idea or it’s implications that inspire thousands of Jews, even during an attempt to further refine and clarify a more exact definition of the idea.
tiawd –
Correct, in ???? ??? ??? or what you call day-to-day level the Neshama is a creation not a creator as it says in ????? ????. However, the point of the Tanya is that the Neshama is a different kind of creation than all other creations due to the fact that as opposed to all other creations, this creation has a part of the creator in it which means Hashem restricted / covered himself in this creation less than in others.
The explanation / mashal given is ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? a balloon full of air and an empty bag are both creations of their creator but the balloon has a part of it that is part of the essence of it’s creator / one who blew the air into it as opposed to the empty bag which is totally separate from the one who created it.
Once we all agree that ??? ??? ?????, “kefira” is hopefully now out of the question, the issue now is how to best describe / understand in ???? ??? ??? the uniqueness and specialness of the Neshama as opposed to all other creations that the Tanya is teaching us.
I see no problem with the word “Mamash” being literal in the context of the fundamentals explained above.
I would say a lot of the discussion here on how exactly to describe the idea of the Tanya is what Chazal call ?????? ?????? ???? ???????.
More important than how to describe the exact “anatomy” of the idea of the Tanya are the repercussions of the idea, such as proper self esteem, proper view of other people, hopefulness, optimism, belief in Teshuva and more that result from this idea as explained by the Tanya throughout his Sefer.
It would be a big pity to miss out on the main point/s the Tanya is trying to help the reader achieve by getting stuck on the exact “anatomy” of the idea which either way you go as we explained, is not even remotely close to kefira.
tiawd:
You seem to have two questions on the statement of the Baal Hatanya:
1. How can something be a “part” of something which cannot be split into parts?
2. In ????? ???? it says the neshomo is a creature, how can something be both a creator and a creature?
Your conclusion ; the Baal Hatanya cannot be understood literally.
My question on your conclusion; how can one say something was not meant to be taken literally when the author specifically writes “Mamash”?
My answer to your questions;
One can ask on the Tanya from the opposite direction;
How can he say that only the neshama is a chelek eloka mimaal when the Passuk of ??? ??? ????? as explained by the Tanya himself as well as the Nefesh Hachaim and others, says there is no existence outside Hashem and ALL existence is inside Hashem, if so not only the neshama is a chelek eloka mimaal the entire universe and ALL existence is Hashem.Here are the words of the Tanya:
)??? ????? ??????? ??? ?(: ??”? “???? ??? ???? ?? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ? ?’ ???? ?? ?????? ??”, ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???… ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???,????? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??, ??? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ???… ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ???”? ????? ?????? ??? ???, ????? ??? ‘???’ ???? ???? ???…??? ???”? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???, ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ????.
Here are the words of the Nefesh Hachaim:
)??? ?, ??? ??? ?-??? ?(:…??? ???? ?? ????? ???, ??? ??? ?? ?? ??????? ????????, ??????????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????. ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???????, ??????? ????????? ?? ????? ?????? ????????????, ?? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???, ?? ??? ??? ??????????? ????? ????? ???. ???? ???? ????? “?? ???? ?? ? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?” )????? ??, ??(, ????? ????? ????? ???? “?????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ? ?’ ???? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ? ???? ? ?? ?? ?? ? ?? ??? ?? ? ?? ?? ????”)????? ?, ??(, ??? “?? ??? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ??? ? ?’ ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?? ????”)????? ?, ??(… ???? ??? ??????, ???? ??? ????? ????? ???, ????????? ?????? ????? ???? ???????, ??????? ???????? ??????? ????,?? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ???… ?????? ????? ?????? ????????? ???? ??????? ???, ?? ??? ????? ??????.
In the words of Rav Avigdor Miller zt”l to the best of my recollection:
“The entire world exists in Hashems mind”.
This being the case, it is not the Neshama being chelek eloka mimaal mamash that is not to be taken literally rather quite the opposite is true, it is the body and the rest of creation NOT being chelek eloka mimaal that is not to be taken literally as the reality is ??? ??? ????? there is NO other existence other than Hashem.
The same would apply for your second question as well, it is ??? ????? and ??? ???? which are “not to be taken literally” as all “creations” as explained by the Tanya and Nefesh Hachaim above are merely a figment of our imagination and a virtual reality created by Hashem (referred to by some as ????? or ????) in order for us to have a realm in which we can fulfill our purpose in the world.
The idea of the Tanya about the Neshama being Chelek Eloka mimaal mamash is likewise that even within our world of ????? or ???? where Hashem restricted / constricted / covered himself for us, the Neshama is a part of us that is less restricted / covered etc.
Just as Hashem is above Time Matter and Space then so too the Chelek Eloka Mimaal / Godly particle / Godliness or whatever you would like to call it is above time matter and space. That being the case the question this post started with falls away and doesn’t start.
Hashem’s Oneness as explained in Shaar Hayichud of Chovos Halevovos has more to do with Unique / Unequalled / Unlike any other and means a lot more than just the numerical value of one which is obviously the case but largely irrelevant to something that is above time matter and space.
The question posed here that the idea of Chelek Eloka Mimaal implies a “splitting” of Hashem is simply an ignorant and foolish attempt to force physical dimensions on something which is not physical.
This discussion has nothing to do with Lubavitch or Kabbala, this discussion is simply the result of enormous ignorance about what Hashem’s Oneness means.
Tiawd, Learn Shaar Hayichud before you attack / attempt to cross out explicit words of a great sage like the Baal Hatanya.
AviraDeArah:
There is nothing about the idea stated in the Baal Hatanya that contradicts the 13 Ikkarim.
Maybe you understand the difference between “godliness” and Hashem himself, I don’t.
A basic tenet of Christianity is total separation between us and Hashem to the point that an intermediary is necessary, insisting on this kind of separation is dangerously close to that.
Embassies around the world have the legal status of their home country does that mean that there are now “Two” of the given country?
Does Shabbos being ???? ???? ??? mean there are two Olam Habas?
Tiawd’s question is rooted in utter ignorance about the Oneness of Hashem.
One who learns and understands Shaar Hayichud of Chovos Halevavos can see that there is No contradiction whatsoever bet. the words of the Baal Hatanya and the Oneness of Hashem.
tiawd:
Your reckless claim that an explicit statement of the Baal Hatanya is “Kefira” is the main problem with your post.
The Tanya specifically adds the word “Mamash”!
To say someone who says Mamash does not mean it literally is simply absurd, dishonest and False.
Your first “proof” is actually the biggest proof to the contrary of your claim as the real meaning of ??? ??? ????? as explained by the sources you quoted is that there is no real existence outside of Hashem.
Take a look at Sforno Bereishis 32:1 who also alludes to this idea.
The distance you are trying to create between yourself and Hashem is actually a lot closer to the “border” of Kefira (Christianity) than the idea you are questioning.
From the Tanya ??? ? ??? ?:
???????? ?????????? ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????? ???????, ?????? ??????????1: “????????? ?????????? ???????? ???????”, ??”?????? ????????? ????”2, ??????? ?????????? ?????????3: ???? ???????? ?????????? ?????, ????????, ??????????????? ???????????????????, ?????????????? ?????????????? ????????? ??????????? ??????? ????????????? ???????. ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ????????? ?????????? ????? ?????????????, ???????????: “?????? ????????? ??????????”4, “??????? ?????? ???’ ??????????”5. ????????, ?????? ????????? ????????? ??????? ?????, ????? ??????????? ???????? ???? ????? ?????????? ?????????? ???????????????? ??????????? ???????????, ????????? ??????? ????? ?????????? ????????6, ?????? ???? ??????????? ????? ??????? ????????? ?????????”?7,
????: ???????? ??? ??????? ???????????, ?????? ?????????? ??????????? ????????”?. ????? ????? ???????? ??????”? ??”? ????????? ???????? ??????? ?????????????? ???? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ??????????? ??????? ????????? ?????????? ??????? ??????? ????????????; ???? ??? ????????? ?????????????. ??????? ?????????????? ????????? ?????, ??????? ???? ???????? ???? ???????? ????????????? ????????? ???? ??? ????????? ??????? ????????? ?????????? ?????”? ??? ?????????? ?????????? ?????”? ?????????? ???????????? ????????????? ??????? ???????????, ?????? ??????????8: “??????? ?????????? ????????”.
??????? ????????? ?????? ?????????? ??’, ??????? ??? ???? ????????? ??????? ?????????? ??? ???????? ??’, ???????????9: “??????? ???????? ????????”, ????????10: “???? ??? ????????????? ????????????????” ???’.
????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ????????? ?????????? ?????????????, ????????? ????? ????????? ?????? ???, ?????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ???????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ?????????? ??? ????????? ????????????? ?????? ??????????? ?????????, ?????? ????????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ?????????. ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????????, ?????????????????? ??? ????????? ????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ???????? ???????, ????? ????????? ???????? ?????????, ???? ???? ?????? ????????? ????????? ????? ??????????. ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ????????? ????? ?????????? ???????, ??????? ???? ????????????? ??? ???? ???? ????????? ???????????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????????????, ????????? ??????? ?????????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ???????????, ????????? ?????? ???????????? ??????? ?????, ??????????? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ????????? ??? ???????, ??? ????? ???????????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ?????, ????????? ???????????? ??????????? ??????????????? ??????????????? ????????? ????????????. ????? ???? ??? ????????? ????????? ??????????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ???????????? ????????????? ??????????, ?????????? ?????? ???? ?????. ????? ????????? ???????, ???????? ??????????????? ??????????? ?????????? ????????? ???????????, ??????????? ?????????? [?????? ????11]: ????? ????????????? ???????? ?????????? ??????????????.
[??????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ?????????? ???? ????? ?????????? ?????? ?????, ???????? ???????????? ??????????? ???? ?????????].
??????? ??????? ??????????? ?????????? ???? ????????? ????? ?????????? ???? ????????? ?????????? ?????????, ???????????? ???????????? ??????????? ??? ????? ????????????????? ??????????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ????????? ??????????? ???????????, ???????????12: “??????? ?????????? ????????”, ?????????? ????????? ?????? ????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ????????; ????? ???? ??? ????????? ?????????? ????????????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ??????????? ???????????? ??????????, ??????? ?????????? ??????? ????????, ???? ???????? ????????? ?????? ????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ????????? ????? ?????????? ???? ????????????? ???????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ????????????.
??????? ?????? ??????? ????”?13 ??? ???????14 “??????????? ????”, ??????? ???????? ??????????? ?????, ??????? ?????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ????????????? ???????. ???? ??? ????? ????????? ????????????? ????????, ?????????? ?????? ????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????????? ??????????? ?????????? ??????????? ????????????? ????????, ??????? ??????????? ??????????? ????? ?????? ????????? ??’. [??????????????? ??????????? ????????????? ????????, ???????? ?????? ????? ?????????? ????????? ??????????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????????? ??????????? ????????]:
????? ??????????? ?????????15 ????????? ??????16 ??????????? ??????? ????????????? ??????? ????????? ??????????? ????????, ??? ???????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??’, ??????? ???????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????????? ??????? ???? ??????? ????????? ??????????? ?????? ????????. ????? ??????????? ??????????, ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????????? ??’, ?????????? ????????? ????????????? ??? ??? ???????????, ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ???. ????? ????????? ??? ???????, ?????????? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ??????. ?????????? ???? ???????? ?????????, ???????? ?????????? ?????? ??’. ????? ??????????? ????????, ?????? ?????????? ???????? ????? ????????? ?????? ??? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ??’, ?????? ????????? ??????”? ??”? ???? ??? ???????????? ??????? ????????? ???????? ??????????? ???????? ????????? ??????????.
???? ??????DY:
“Would you similarly argue that someone who learns Torah sheba’al peh from a sefer is doing something wrong since it’s only muttar because of eis la’asos Lashem heferu?”
Would you similarly argue that now that Esther married a non jew because of Eis Laasos it is now muttar (and according to you proper) to marry a non jew?
When we say Eis Laasos and something becomes temporarily muttar or even proper for that moment that is in NO WAY coming to change the Torah value system or principles.
And yes there is very much of the Torah shebaal peh Takanah that we still observe today in spite of the Eis Laasos that is why gemaras are to this day still printed without nekudos, it is said that is why the Gra wrote mostly abbreviations and more.
The Torah’s values and principles are forever and even if temporarily suspended not subject to change.
If the Rambam is declaring that one who learns and supports himself is the higher madrega and the Kesef Mishna at no point disagrees with that rather to the contrary agrees with that point of the Rambam than any other suggestion is trying to change the Torah and FALSE.
DY – A part of the Kesef Mishna you did not quote:
Ein safek shemi shechanano hashem yisborach sheyisparnes memelachti ASSUR lo litol.
Kesef Mishna
Gam ki nodeh shehalacha kdivrei rabeinu bperush hamishna efsher shehiskimu kein kol chachmei hadoros mishum eis laasos lashem heferu sorasecha.
Kesef Mishna
Please translate the word HEFERU!
Daas Yochid:
1. Look at Radvaz on that Rambam in Shemita Vyovel where he clearly says the Rambam there is not contradicting his harsh words he says in Talmud Torah about people who make parnassah from Torah rather his intention is the “Lo shevet Levi bilvad” will have Siyata Dishmaya in their work for parnassah and earn enough to free up their time to learn Torah.
2. The point about Rav Moshe in the Tshuva is that he is clearly going with the pashut pshat in the Rambam that the one who learns and works is the HIGHER Madrega and not the other way around.
3. For you to throw such a severe Rambam in the garbage by throwing out a reckless “We don’t pasken like that” is Ziyuf Torah as I said. I wouldn’t exactly compare this Rambam to paskening like Beis Shamai as you are suggesting… A careful reading of the Kesef Mishna you quoted will show the opposite of what you said in his name, all the Kesef Mishna does is defend people who do earn money from Torah Learning.
The Biur Halacha can be understood just as the Kesef Mishna, (although I can see in the words of the Biur Halacha how one can misread them as to be arguing on the Rambam as to what is a higher madrega) merely providing a HETER for those who wish to go AGAINST the Shulchan Aruch and Not got to work.
To go against the simple reading of Rov Rishonim, Tur and Shulchan Aruch along with many Achronim on the basis of your understanding of the Biur Halacha is Megaleh Panim Batorah Shelo Kehalacha.
4. For some reason none of your “Poskim” decided to change the tefillos we say at the most critical and holiest times of the year (Birkas Kohanim, Hotzaas Sefer Torah Yomim Noraim, Birkas habanim Erev Yom Kippur) which ALL ask Hashem at length for blessing in PARNASSAH that will enable Avodas Hashem.