gavra_at_work

I’ll make sure to hire one at the next available opportunity.

In order to be Mekayim this Neder, might I suggest a Jewish proofreader? That way you can also obtain the mitzva of giving parnassah to a fellow Jew.

I always thought that Satmar discouraged their followers from such public interactions with outsiders? Am I mistaken?

I believe so. I’ve never heard of such a thing. There are such “cults”, but Satmar is not one of them.

If someone suffers or if someone does not suffer, it is not according to our decisions, much less according to the arabs decision.

I respectfully request that this Kefirah be removed from the site. We are not Calvinist.

PBA: didn’t like my post? It is inherently not Tzanuah to go “date watching”, which is what happens at these “lounges”. Go somewhere that you can concentrate on your own date.

GAW so you are of the opinion that many or most Zionist Israelis consider Torah study a waste of time, even worthless than the empty and unreliable Arab promises? I did not believe things were *that* bad, but you may be right.

Not “Torah study”, but “Full time Torah study by all”. Even the Yesh Atid lady MK Dr. Ruth Calderon has a degree in Talmud and is a Machshiv Torah. Perhaps she should have gotten a Petur for “Torah Study” instead of many Charaidim.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=157884

daniela: See my response above (when the mods approve it).

GAW: I think that would be appropriate. Part of what society does is allocate its resources. If you exclude a part of the community from receiving any govt benefits, it would not be appropriate to still tax them. They should be able to tax themselves and allocate their money.

Agreed. But by working in Israel, you ARE receiving benefits (such as infrastructure, security, electric, water, etc.). I agree with you that someone who is “independently wealthy” and receiving money from external sources (such as US bonds) who “opts out” should be included. They would they have the right to opt out and not get the various benefits (such as medical, voting rights, social security, etc., as well as water infrastructure).

Once again, the difficult part is deciding who is part of that society, but I believe that can be determined by seeing who benefits from the state.

If the only concern was money, they would go to the army, and then take over the Israeli economy. They would not sit in yeshiva and be paupers, and have to beg on the streets to marry off their kids.

And they wouldn’t be Charaidim (which is practially defined by not working). They want their cake and to eat it as well.

That is precisely what the chareidim do. They have electoral power, and they use it to force other Israelis to give them money. Money which they think they are morally entitled to by due of learning, which is more than can be said for liberals in other countries.

This. Its not about “sharing the burden”, its not about the army, Its not about shmad, and it isn’t about Israeli society. It is about GELT, GELT, GELT!!! Pure and simple.

Agree with Ender.

I don’t know what you want to bring out about the Agudah singles events.

The fact that in the MO crowd many do not wish to get married is, to me, the biggest condemnation if their “system”.

Al Rishon Rishon:

The Agudah singles events should be replicated. Both boys and girls should know they can be “forward” with each other, noting that it is for Tachlis only. Part of the problem of the shidduch system is that even when they are dating, they only stick their toe in. After all, everyone knows that taking to the opposite gender is Assur, and it is very difficult to change that attitude.

I have heard that in Lakewood, they tell the boys not to call the girl by her name until you are almost ready to get engaged! My Hadracha has it the the dating process is meant to get closer to the girl. First names SHOULD be used, as that is what creates a relationship. (I could add a cheeky comment regarding Bochim in Lakewood not being interested in a relationship with the girl, but with the shver and his wallet, but I’ll let that be).

As far as your second point, which came first? Does “Yeshivish” society value marriage becuse without it girls have no place or as an inherent value? Do other societies not value “making a family” because they disvalue it, or due to the hardships it creates?

As a family man, I don’t disagree with you, but I do see the other side. I know many “UWS type” who come from “yeshivish” families but are straight out scared to start a family, together with all of the achrayis that comes with it. They THEREFORE move to the UWS, where they can be accepted as an individual.

I don’t envy their choices. Either live a life in poverty, living off others and Tzedaka until they die (which is the Israeli Charaidi approach), or settling down in their early thirties and having fewer children. Planning would have gotten them out of the mess, but high schools and Sems (as well as Rosh Yeshivas) don’t encourage planning. to paraphrase Chazal: Ezehu Chacham, Haroeh that you (Bezras Hashem) will have to pay tuition in 5 years.

You might laugh at Food and Shopping addictions, they are real issues

It is not a joke.

Neither is Rav (the Amorah to whom I was refering, also known as Abba Aricha). Serious Machmir (didn’t deal with other people’s Tznius, but simply didn’t look outside his own 4 Amos, and yes, only ate by a seudas mitzva). And even Rav said:

?”? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??????

(Eruvin)

As I have posted more than once:

There are THREE (really four) different aspects of what is known as “Tznius” (which is like calling lighting a fire on shabbos “Mukzta”). They are:

1: Ervah

2: Das Moshe/Yehudis

3: Tznius

4: Histaklus

1: Ervah is a din in Kriyas Shema (which is why the halchos are in Keriyas Shema). Many Rishonim hold it applies to other brachos as well. The idea is that a Davar Sheb’kedusha may not be done/said before any Ervah. That includes for a man (as per the Gemorah Brachos) a woman’s hair, shok, etc. This has NOTHING to do with the general idea of a man looking at a lady. See Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 75 for more details.

2: Das Moshe/Yehudis is what the Torah (add: or Chazal) perscribes that a female should not have uncovered when she goes out in public. This includes hair of anyone who is not a Besulah (as per Even HaEzer 21:2). The Mishna in Kesubos (72B) differentiates between the two. Ayin Shom. (Rav Moshe IIRC also has some teshuvos on the matter).

3: Tznius: There is a general concept of Hatznya Leches. This applies to both males & females, both in manner of dress and action, to be “low-key”. (There are also halachos of Tznius in OC 240, which I will ignore for this discussion). An example is a woman covering her hair in her own yard (a private domain), where there is no Chiyuv (seemingly even if others will see her), but there is a concept of “Tznius”. (Offen a Bais Shemuel in Even HaEzer). In general, Chassidim are more Machmir in this.

4: Histaklus: A man may not stare at a woman. Period. If he does, he is Over “Lo Tasuru”. It certainly is a good thing for women to make sure that men have no reason to stare at them, but unless it is “Trai Ivri Nahara”, then it is not “Lifnei Iver”.

A pantsuit is certainly dignified.

Israel is a small country, and all it’s citizens should take part in its defense.

Charaidim don’t consider themselves “citizens” of Israel. Most of them (even those who take money) would be just as happy if the Arabs took over, as long as there would not be a subsequent massacre.

But I could theoretically live in an anglo area of Yerushaliyim, such as Ramat Eshkol, Har Nof, or Givat Hamivtar, and I would be able to send my kids to a more chilled type of bais yaakov/ yeshiva.

Bezras Hashem.

GAW, I think that R’Dovid really thinks so. Eventhough I do not agree with many of his shittos, I think it is unfounded to accuse him of insincerity.

I did not say he was insincere. He knows who his audience is and how to reach them. A more “mild” response would not get the required result.

I believe this was something that was brought by the Chasam Sofer and is in relation to the chatzitza issue when a woman goes to mikvah. It has nothing to do with how the shaitel fits.

This is correct. The Chasam Sofer mentioned it in his Tzavva to his children as a “minhag Chassidus” (As told by the Skvere Dayan Rav Neishloss). From there it expanded to “Chassidim”.

Furthermore, Rav Neishloss agreed that Kimchis has nothing to do with this and did have hair. If she didn’t then what would be so great about shaving her head every two-three days? Bezman HaGemorah women had hair, and it was considered Nivul not to have hair (Ayin Gemorah Nazir).

How could serving one’s country result in someone being considered an outcast in their community? I don’t get it.

The same would be true for someone who joins the army in Berkley or these other radical liberal areas in the USA.

However, the other part that is being ignored, is that I have had some teachers at “seminary A” whose husbands did some form of sherut leumi and today are chareidi rabbis. That is also not told to anyone- including most chareidim.

Of course not! If the other charaidim would know, then these “rabbis” would no longer be accepted, their children would be kicked out of school, and their daughters unable to wed. Shunning is a superior tactic in an insular community.

the average hiloni will not listen to arguments on the vicious anti-haredi hatred if they come from a Rabbi

Why not? Why do the different Yidden in EY hate each other with a Sinah Gedolah?

GAW, it is bizui Talmidei Chachomim to put forth such conjectures. It is one thing to have kashos on the p’sak, but what you did is different.

Is it Bizayon Talmidei Chachomim to put forth the same regarding Rabbi Avi Weiss? How about Rabbi Leib Tropper? Rabbi Louis Jacobs?

Having the title “Rabbi” or “Rebbe” does not shield someone from criticism. Power corrupts. Shochad certainly corrupts.