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chana: Wrong thread, as he did no such thing.
You are Over the Issur of being able to be Mayid for a fellow Yid to keep him out of jail, and refusing to do so. Even now, if you would testify in court he would go free! I’m shocked how little you care about your fellow Yid, and am at a loss for words regarding an Avaryan like you. Go testify in court!
Good to know. Thanks.
Shas and UTJ have an agreement where one will not join a coalition without the other.
News to me. Source?
A secular court and 12 jurors of one’s peers has no neemanus or believability or acceptability in halacha or Judaism. NW status to us remains the same as it was before the DA or court acted.
This is 100% true. His status of Safek Rodef has not changed to Vadai just because of a “Jury”.
No, WIY, they truly believe in his innocence.
I believe you (sadly). Nebuch.
Center – right coalition with Likud, Yesh Atid, Hatenuah (as an outside chance, Labor) & Shas. No negotiations, Sephardim get some support but not Ashkinazi Yeshivos, and the money saved going towards social programs. Grand compromise between Bibi & Rav Yosef regarding drafting Charaidim/Arabs (probably some sort of Sherut Leumi, which allows for opting out at the cost of citizenship (not legal residency)), which the Ashkinazim label “selling out”.
Adding UTJ to a coalition (unfortunately) would be bad politics for any party.
Is it really appropriate for girls that age to be dressed in sweatshirts in public?
Yes.
And SS is not inherently sustainible since the model was created at a time when people lived shorter and had more children at this time there is an increasingly fewer amount of people paying in while the people living off it are increaisng rendering it unsustainible.
SS is the easy fix, you just need to push off the retirement age (which for reasons you point out, make sense). Medicare is the big problem.
BL: Call it Rabbonim or the Government (which in the time of the Gemorah the Rabbonim WERE the local government), it doesn’t make a difference.
PBA: Another significant difference is that in halacha, it was the rabbonim who decided when to grab money from the rich folks. In America, it is the poor people themselves deciding to take money from the rich folks.
Halivai we’d have Robinhood. It’s stealing from the rich and keeping it for myself that I have a problem with.
Good point.
PBA: I’m impressed. Your assumption though is that the equityholders would not be wiped out, and certainly would not have to pay from their own pocket. At the very least the ownership could have transfered to the debtholders (even if they didn’t want it. M’Mare Rshusech Pari Ephra!).
Nu, nu. So I’ll make heter iska on all of them.
Expect many Shevuos. Besides, it would be questionable who is the Tovaiah that would be Mechayiv the Shevua.
The market was spiraling on itself, but it was just panic–not actual decline in value.
Meanwhile, the banks were forced by regulation to deleverage, and they were doing that by dumping assets which further exacerbated the problem. They really should have done that by raising more capital, but, for complicated reasons, it didn’t make sense for the banks’ equity holders to do that. The bailouts forced them to deleverage by raising capital.
I’m not sure where you are going with this, but the strong firms (such as GS) were able to raise private capital. It makes more sense to raise capital than to lose your shirt.
mdd: Genuk with your bubbe maisas. You were given multiple names of gedolim who support the current learning system in Eretz Yisroel. You were asked for the specific name of ONE GODOL who is against it and wants to force the Bnei Torah out of the Beis Medrash. You cannot produce the name of even one godol.
argumentum ad verecundiam is not acceptable, unless your name is Joe.
Besides, no true Scotsman applies as well, and argumentum ad baculum.
Da’as Yochid, the Israeli wellfare system exists for altruistic reasons. They just do not want to support all the Chareidim in kollel anymore. Even the “evil” Yochanan Plesner suggested 20% of talmidim get exemptions.
So let them do so by passing a law! Until then, it is no different than taking a large mortgage deduction by taking out a bigger loan. A law, on the books, that is being exploited.
Please note though, that it is “personal charity” by those that can afford it that is mandated by the Torah not a burecratic forced taxation to a central authority in charge of giving to who they wish to give to.
Sheker.
Bava Basra 8B.
??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ??”? ???? ??? ???? (?????? ?) ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ?’ ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????’ ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????
PBA: Of course you can. You think Chazal did not think of most of these tricks? Chazal were not out to protect the big banks, they were protectiong the Ani, Yasom & Almana. The only difference is Chazal would not have printed the money & allowed the banks to go bankrupt. Then the owners of these banks would lose their shirts paying off the depositors.
Besides, the loans would not be worth anything anyway as it is assur to lend with Ribbis.
The very fact the Bais din is Onesh people to sell cheap, and is willing to change Halacha to be Maikel for Hafsed & expensive prices (Rabban Gamliel by Kinim) shows something about the outlook of the Torah regarding both capitalism & communism. It doesn’t hold of either. More so, Bais din would force and embarrass someone to work to support his children.
He certainly is considered a godol by the Torah world. Rav Malkiel Kotler holds highly of the gadlus of the Rebbe (and they are close friends.)
🙂
Englishman/Joe:
See, if you were in the army, it would solve all problems, with your myriad screen names, you are an army of a few million!
How do you know machir was born while yaakov was alive?
Offen a Gemorah Bava Basra 121b. Yair as well.
akuperma: The problem is that religious Zionists hold that the Medina IS the halachic successor of the Kingdoms of Yisrael & Yehudah. Once you disagree on that point, everything else diverges as well.
What the Medina is in Halacha actually is a decent question. From Satmar (The Devil Hees-self) to RZ (Reshit Smichat Geulatenu), the span of shittos is extremely wide.
IMHO (and I am aware tiny me doesn’t have a seat at the table of Giants), we could probably learn something from the shittos as per what status the Chashmonai regimes had, which were also not Al Pi Halacha and “rejected Torah as the source of law”. I have a feeling (and some basis) that it would be a Machlokes Rishonim. However, no one thinks that it had the dinim of Malchus similar to that of Shaul & David HaMelech.
Most people I know in Lakewood do not work (The wives do work and some even commute to Brooklyn) and they joke how they are a “Programmer”
Anecdotal evidence? You just know the wrong people.
ZD: Except they aren’t, as I pointed out earlier. Most people in Lakewood work for a living.
What did the Charedi population in the US do when there was a draft?
The US doesn’t have any real “Charadim” like in Eretz Yisroel. They have Chassidish (who mostly work), Lakewood (who mostly end up working, and don’t listen to BMG (the “Gedolim”) either way, as proven by the Christie election), and “Yeshivish” (who went to a Jewish Yeshiva). Those who do learn get an exemption, just like any other divinity student (4D).
GAW, if the answer is to be yoishev yechidi, so be it. But do it somewhere where you don’t take without giving.
And the government certainly has the right to cut back on giving if they so desired. It is not the fault of the Charadim who take what is being offered, rather it is the fault of those who offer it and sell themselves for votes.
True that the Charaidim will protest if there are cutbacks, but so what? They don’t have the power to do anything more than protest IF the government got its act together.
Englishman/Joe: You have lost the right to be part of the conversation. So sorry 🙂
yichusdik: You have not dealt with my reasons Ki Hu Zeh (which do address national service). I believe they are valid and correct.
2) The conscription of hareidim who are not learning full time is opposed by most gedolim since the army engages in systematic coercion aimed at forcing draftees to be substantially less frum in the hope that they will leave the hareidi community and become part of the mainstream of Israeli society – this leads to many hareidim who want to be baal ha-battim who probably would gladly serve if they felt the army welcomed them staying in yeshiva and working “under the table”.
You believe the tail is wagging the sheep. I believe the sheep (leaving charadi society) is wagging the tail (refusal to allow any participation in a non- Charaidi enterprise, such as the army), even without direct intent to “assimilate”. Either way, we agree on this point.
DY: I hear you, but disagree. In addition, I see the side of the “anti Satmar”, though not for the reasons ZD brings. In fact, call me anti YU for the same reason (although at least there they admit they made a mistake).
Between the two of them, Frum Yidden have (perhaps unfairly)gotten a bad rap over the past month.
It is for Joseph/LJ exclusively. With any luck, he will disappear.
Loyal Jew
DerechHamelech, Naftush is either a troll
Pot (or Joe), meet kettle.
You both missed the point. Oh well, its not worth explaining the joke.
Note that I appreciated this comment from the article:
shalom2010 says:
January 14, 2013 at 1:36 pm
ZD: How do you know they are Satmar? Maybe they are Slonim? You admit that the approbation is illegible.
Even if they are Satmar, maybe they are Aharonis?
As such, it is a Sfek Sfeka L’Heter. 🙂
Rambam Dayos 6:2
??? ?? ??? ?????? ????????? ????, ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????–??? ????? ?????? ??????, ??????? ???? ?????. ??? ??? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ????, ??? ????? ??, ?? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ????????? ?????, ???? ??????? ?? ???? ?????–???? ???? ?????, ?????? ????? “???? ??? ??????” (???? ?,??). ??? ??? ???? ??????, ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???–???? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?????, ?????? ????? “?? ?????? ????? . . .” (?????? ?,?).
Who cares?
(I have a really good line about clothes making the man, but will hold back)
Argentina?
Tangentially, I recently heard that Puah in Israel is starting to work on IVF for genetically problematic couples to avoid issues like these.
You make it sound like you’re mad these kids were born because now he is asking for tzedaka. Why didn’t you just generically mention that you know of such a person and ask if it is appropriate?
Because this is three different questions:
1: Should one bring such a child into the world?
2: Should one bring such a child into the world, knowing that he will need others to support him by doing so?
3: Is there a Chiyuv for the Rov who says to go ahead to collect money for when it is needed? IIRC, the Tzitz Eliezer used to say (for older women who were afraid to have children due to genetic defects) have the child, but come to me for a heter if there are genetic abnormalities. Isn’t that the chiyuv of the Rov? if so, why is this person collecting? He should be home taking care of his children, while his Rov should be out collecting.
Can someone kindly provide a coherent, articulate explanation of the Israeli Yeshiva world’s opposition to the army draft in any shape or form?
The draft is a side point. I would imagine that many Rabbonim are happy regarding the status quo, as it forces their “students” out of mainstream society and into the bais medrash.
As Rav Chaim says, the draft is Sakanas Nefashos. Charadi Israeli society does not build up the individual bochur to the point where they can withstand the temptation of the outside world. If you think the OTD rate is high now, imagine what it would be like when Charadim get jobs and realize that they can have when their neighbor the DL has and still be a Oved Hashem! Or even worse, decide that their neighbor the non-frum has a better life and joins him.
Simply put, avoiding the draft is a matter of survival for Charaidi society.
What is an “emergency” that would allow a frum Jew to work on Shabbos on economic matters?
Ask your LOR. Mr. Lew will ask his.
Ask your LOR, but as long as you are 100% truthful, I imagine this is the very definition of “Toeles”. Of course, you probably want to make sure that your data is still current when you post, and follow all other Halachos of the SA.
4. Over time such definitions would likely change. If you wait long enough, we’ll probably be considered Rishonim. Playing with the dates that periods began and ended in history is something historians love to do, especially with sufficently strong beverages to encourage discussion (meaning it is about convenience, not substance). I would argue that the period of the 1940s is a major “watershed” in Jewish history, and everything before 1940 is the “past”, and post 1950 is the “present” – and maybe in a few centuries people will see it that way.
People already see it that way. Personally, I treat any post Rav Moshe shittos very differently than those before (or Rav Moshe himself).
This is true with holdovers such as Rav Ovadia, and without saying Rav Moshe & the Chazon Ish. It may become similar to Rav, who was both a Tanna & an Amorah.
“chasidim and non-chasidic chareidim”
What is a “non chassidic charadim”? Yerushalmis? Lakewood and its child yeshivos? KAJ? Flatbush? St. Louis?
Also census Satisics have labeled Kiryat Joel the poorest city in americs
Statistics don’t include all income. If you actually go there, you will see that everyone is taken care of adaquately, and they have nice homes (compared to Williamsburg apartments).
To make it clear, I don’t mean anything “illegal”. What I mean is that those who don’t have are supported to their means by the community, so that no one goes without.
You have statistics? No you don’t. You merely have preconceived notions that you are projecting on others.Other Chareidim (non-Chasidim) are on government assistance at the same rate.
Does anyone else find this amusing?
P.S. don’t assume non-Chasidim = Chareidim. There are Yekkes, Misnagdim, Litvaks & Oberlanders, even without going to MO. Let alone Sephardim. (Obviously, that does not mean they are not Quakers as well, but they usually don’t get lumped together). Many modern day “Charadim” are Chassidish “wannabes”.
He happens to learn that Bilaam only went with Shnei Ne’arav Imo since he was in such a hurry to get out.
Difficult. The Torah does say (after the whole story) that Bilaam went with “Sarei Balak”, and that he left with the “Sarei Moav”.
Ner Yisroel is not a yeshiva/college.
Landers doesn’t have second seder.
It does answer a question that was bothering me: What happened to all the other noblemen, didn’t they hear Bilam’s Donkey and think for a second that maybe what they were doing was not a good idea?
If you understand the donkey’s speech as part of “Nevuah”, then perhaps the Sarei Moav/Midyan did not understand the speech!
He explains that the Chalom in these circumstances mean a state of blurriness, in which anything goes, so that the Navi shouldn’t be shocked when he hears a Malach speak.
Hate to say it, but this sounds more like LSD than Nevuah.
Yichis, but there are sources that seem to admit partial determinism. The bracha Hameichin Mitzzadei Gover is based on Mishlei 20;24 and the pasuk is more blunt than the bracha. One idea is that we are led to believe and we do believe that we are free agents, but we are in fact just plain agents.
Predeterminism is different than “partial determinism”. After all, Hashem does decide before you are born whether your Neshama will be a Kohen or not. Genes are another example.
they should have rented the budwesier clydesdales.
Yup.
I can’t say I’m surprised. You know how it is with Chassidim & Minhag. I’m just surprised that they moved to the Modernish inventions of indoor plumbing & electricity! (JK)