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I live in Gateshead and that is not just the only pathetic rule. The girls cant walk on some streets where yeshivos are, the street connecting my sisters school to my house has a yeshiva on so my sister has to walk all around the block an extra 15 mins just to get to school coz of this pathetic rule.
Let me understand. What do your parents say regarding this rule?
GAW, Please explain why caring to look at girls have to do with being online?
If someone is so Makpid not to see women, then they should expect to see them online, even on frum sites. Not seeing any women is should not be an expectation.
You have to rub the lamp on a weekday. Everyone knows genies don’t work on Shabbos!
If you rub it on Shabbos, listen very closely – you just might hear the singing, “Ain’t gonna work on Saturday, ain’t gonna work on Saturday! Double, double, triple pay won’t make me work on Saturday. Ain’t gonna work on Saturday – it’s Shabbos Kodesh!”
🙂
Deserves to be repeated
Did anyone else have any problems with the girls in “Book of Good Life”?
No.
You are just trolling. If you really cared, you would not be online.
gavra_at_work –
I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that it should be fought against, and the whole “don’t judge” bit isn’t relevant here.
I think so too, but not for “Halachic” reasons (as you agree), like others claim.
But as I said earlier, I do not believe this has anything to do with chumros. Nor do I believe it is a psychological issue. My speculation is that it is a way for these women to assert power. To show the men around them who have natural feelings for women – ha! you can’t get us. Because if they were truly modest it would manifest itself in them being humble and following their rabbanim, and not making such a scene. But they aren’t. I don’t “judge” them for being machmir but I think they are a menace to society as much as extremely chauvinistic men are.
And if it is? If it all boils down to a power struggle, then it has nothing to do with Halacha.
Just because you are not on the level of others who feel that seperate seating is a chiyuv, doesn’t mean you should make fun of them! Taliban women is another parsha
(Bold added)
AKA measuring.
Oh please. Not Sacking the city and selling the children into slavery (after taking Yefas Toars and killing all the men) is a mordern concept. Everyone knows Chadash is Assur Min Hatorah!
(End Troll).
Seriously, many of the laws are to encourage interaction between Jews, and discourage close interaction with Aino Yehudim. As far as exterminating the 7 nations & Amalek, sof davar answered well. We offered the 7 the opportunity to leave (which some took), which is better than they offered those before them at the time of Avraham.
Amalek has been discussed here many times, I will not beat a dead horse.
I know of a few. (and there is a long list, from what I understand) It is not simple, ask YLOR
Can someone explain how you have 500 families in Gateshead and 1000 teenage boys and 1000 teenage girls hanging out there?
It is like any other college town. The families there only exist to support the schools.
GAW: so how do you explain the gemara in zevachim,
Like the gemorah! Even R’ Yosi agrees that the Kohen in question can eat from the Korbonos!
I’m not sure what your issue is. Please clarify.
I am not here to draw lines for anyone else,
Just because you are not on the level of others who feel that seperate seating is a chiyuv, doesn’t mean you should make fun of them! Taliban women is another parsha
‘Nuff said.
In all fairness, Gateshead is a college town, and they want to prevent fraternization. Kids will be kids.
That is opposed to other towns, where most of the residents are adults and can be mature about their relationships.
Many explain that Gemara as Davka applying to Avraham Avinu because if he had a daughter she would have to marry a Goy and her descendants wouldn’t be part of Klal Yisrael
Source? That is certainly not the Pashtus in the Gemorah.
I have heard it is written in the K’sav Sofer B’shem the Rambam that the reason that the Rambam explains was due to the hardships of finding shidduchim for daughters (as the Ramabam says he personally had), due to the shidduch crisis of 900 years ago.
GAW, that paragraph in Shulchan Aruch is a chumra which can not be imposed against a spouse’s will. And don’t even start — it is a chumra, not a chiyuv.
And so are all the other things that are being imposed on the women in Mea Shearim & Bait Shemesh. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I see many posters here that say chumrahs in Tznius by definition are a good thing, even when it affects others. What should they be any different?
sam4321:
Aivah does not demote the Kohen Gadol (which is impossible), it just disallows him from doing the Avodah.
These women are living in a different world. I saw an article about one of them; how they won’t let their husband come home from kollel until 11:30 pm so he won’t see his 12 year old daughter in pajamas.
What do you expect when these women are told that they are not allowed to be seen by men? That they are the “protectors” of their husbands’ virtue?
This is a logical outgrowth of the separated buses and opposite side sidewalks.
My question is how can there be two kohanim gedolim,your saying why not, where did you see that concept(besides here).
Yoma 12b
?”? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?’ ???? ?’ ???? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?’ ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?”? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???????
GAW, I’m not sure what you are saying, or if you are even addressing me.
I can’t print more than I did here (and I am not specificly addressing you, just the (real) reasons that I have heard).
Look it up for yourself.
AMI Magazine had an article on these folks in this weeks issue. Specifically, why the Badatz came out strongly against them.
Because they insisted on their husband behaving in accordance with the Shulchan Aruch OH 240?
?????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??
Offen a Shulchan Aruch.
If you need to be so machmir on other things, the women will empower themselves to be makpid on what they want to be machmir on.
gefen:
????? (?????? ??) ??’ ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ???? ???
Offen a Gemorah.
There is a mesorah on how parents can and cannot be happy upon the birth of a daughter. Clearly this is a break with the mesorah; it has no sanction from the gedolim; it is just a radical – practically conservative – innovation driven by radical feminist agendas.
???? ????? ??????? = not having a Shalom Bat!
Anyone who disagrees with me is a Kofer! You have no right to even begin to think that I could possibly be wrong!
No.
They had a big party, recited tehilim, said mi shebeirach and the mother even said a bracha on the girl.
Sounds like a good idea, but would be Talui in the Machlokes between R’ Meir & R’ Yehuda whether it is a bracha to have a girl or not.
I will also give you a good example of two people I know: One has a masters in the “therapy” area. He currently runs a therapy business and makes high six figures.
The other person was a housewife for the past X years. She did not want to be a secretary, to work for $10/hr, so she decided to take a shaitel macher course. She was unable to “make it” due to saturation in the field (too many women trying to be shaitelmachers), and ended up as a part time secretary.
So obviously, shaitelmachering is a bad business, and all therapies make high six figures 🙂
the diffrence between modern and ortodox. (sic)
Yes. One is orthodox (but could be modern), the other is not Orthodox (but is modern).
Time for you to move.
Did anyone hear of the concept naval birshus HaTorah? This is an exact example.
I agree (as I did earlier, assuming it is similar to dancing with a pole). However, don’t say the word “Assur” in connection with this (granted you did not, but others did).
Edit: To add, this has nothing to do with women, and really not much to do with Tznius the way the term is usually used. IMHO (and others will disagree) yidden should not glorify their sexuality in public, even before the same gender. It is not “Tzanuah”.
yitayningwut: It is not a matter of comprehension (which is impossible), but a matter of consequences knowing what Hashem is not (which agreed may not be required. After all, Hashem is Hashem). I agree with you. But I do have an answer that fits the facts.
gaw- so just a cute aside – my friend was driving south on rt 9, and a yeshiva guy swerved straight into her from the side st – so she was telling him that he almost killed her and that at her levaya they would have said that everybody would say we have to be tznius, and nobody would have said that you drove like a maniac…..
Made me smile. So true.
Shkoyach. A concept you’re using to answer a question, no?
Yes. It is the Rambam’s understanding of the Ribbono Shel Olam.
I fail to see how.
I know. But I will try to answer you with what seems to be a Stirah.
BS”D
1: The Ribbono Shel Olam is unmutable.
2: The world continues to change.
Same Rambam, one Halacha earlier:
?? ????? ????: ??? ?????, ???? ?????, ???? ???? ????–???? ???. ???? ??–??? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??????, ?? ??????. ?????? ?????? “?? ????” (?????? ??,??; ?????? ??,??) ?”?? ????” (????? ? ?,??; ???? ????, ?????), ???? ?????? ?? ?’ ??? “?? ?'” (?????? ?,??; ???? ????, ????)–???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ?????, ?? ???? ???????
I will not claim that I understand, but I do understand the possibility. It is like mathematical or quantum physics. I may not be able to visualize it or even understand it in my brain, but I can understand the consequences of it being true.
Jothar: Oz Vehadar Levusha is not meant to be a halacha sefer (as per Rav Falk himself). One must ask their own Rov what to do. The book (as I’ve pointed out before) is Rav Falk’s idealized opinion as per what is the ultimate Bas Yisroel. Nothing to do with Halacha (he is more maikel in his actual SH”UT).
gavra at work – your point is well taken but the shemira is what we desperately need to avoid tragedies – look at the tzaros that happened because of the shemira that we lost with the three tzadikkim that we lost-
So you are sure THAT is the reason why they died?
I apologize, I didn’t know that I was dealing with a Navi. 😉
Seriously, the shechina also departs due to Ga’ava. Or maybe it was their time. Or maybe the Arayos we have to work on is that with molesters, not women. Or maybe….
Of course we should work on Tznius, but don’t pretend that it is the end all or the final answer.
How many of you are stating your opinion without even SEEING what zumba is all about???
Me (Boruch Hashem). I also don’t need to see dancing with a pole to know a Bas Yisroel shouldn’t do it with more than one person around (Ask your LOR for extreme circumstances).
gavra_at_work –
I don’t like that answer. It only pushes the question away a bit further back.
It is not an answer, it is a concept.
You will eventually have to concede that at some point the choice I made had not occurred yet,
True
and if at that point God knew,
Also true
then I could not have had freewill,
False
and if he did not, then he wasn’t omniscient.
Patently false.
The Rambam (YT 2:15)
?? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ???????, ???? ???? ?????? ????, ??? ???? ???? ????; ????? ???? ???? ???? ????, ??? ????–????? ???? ??????? ??.
dandelion
What you heard from some “Rosh Yeshiva” is an actual statement made by the Vilna Gaon that said something similar, but different. Your anonymous Rosh Yeshiva then stole the Gaon’s statement for himself, and misquoted him! (or you are misquoting). If you would see the actual statement of the Gaon, you would understand it. I myself have quoted it a number of times on this forum.
I have no problems with the rest of your Megillah. It is not halacha, or an attempt to address the issue at hand (The gemorah or the Choftez Chaim). If your Megillah is for the OP, then you are being more maikel than myself, but you are entitled to your opinion (even if you think that you are not).
Sorry to rip into you, but you are making the same mistake as those before you in the thread. Don’t take anyone’s word for it, insist that you see the source inside, even if you are a lowly female. (cyn)
I’m refering to the famous ‘Kol Koreh’ of the Chofetz Chaim ??”?, decrying the lack of tznius IN HIS GENERATION.
Did you read the Kol Korei yourself? I did. The CC says similar to what I did, that Hashem’s special protection is removed from theose who flaunt themselves. It is NOT the reason why tragedies occur.
??? ???? ??? ????? ?????, ????? ???? ?????? ???
????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??, ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????????
?????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ???.
Once again, I’m only making a very specific point. I’m not saying that one does not have to be Tzanuah. But Tznius is not the end all.
Very good points, akuperma.
We’ve all seen the sources that say that a lack of Tznius causes much Tzaros. Or causes Hashem to withdraw His protection from our homes/lives. I just can’t remember them. Anyone?
There is a simple solution. Not being Tzanua means flaunting yourself, which brings Ayin Hara, Chas V’Shalom. This is what Rav Falk says in his book.
Not that lack of Tznius causes all of the world’s problems.
What does A MOFES mean?
Medicare
Wic
Food stamps
Section 8
Who needs a job? Sit in Kollel all day, and have other Yidden pay your tuition, and the government feed & house you.
ZK:
No one ever said that you can do what you want. We still have a Torah & the Ribbono Shel Olam. A specific point was mentioned regarding tragedies, and this is what the Gemorah has to say (BB 8a).
??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????
Would you mind please informing me of the “calling” that is relevant here? The CC did not say all the world’s problems are caused by Lashon Hara, did he?
GAW
“It has nothing to do with Tznius”
Are you saying that there’s no likely connection between tragedy in the world and the decline in Tznius?
Yes. The gemorah says tragedy comes to the world only due to Am Haratzus. Are you arguing with the Gemorah?
No, but the learning is very textually oriented.
Would you mind elaborating, please? Realize that I am a guy, and when I learn something, it is from a sefer.
Free your mind from what? Torah?!
LOL & Chas V’Shalom
Limitations.
Do not try and bend the spoon. That’s impossible. Instead… only try to realize the truth.
What truth?
There is no spoon.
A MOFES!
If your father can’t afford it then don’t go. You are still young but realize that $18000 is a lot of money in this day and age (to make) and its not fair to expect your father to “cough” it up for you so you can have fun in EY for a year. This whole mishigass is not sustainable and I hope all of these Seminaries close down. People can’t afford them and it causes unnecessary financial strain on people.
I second. Seminaries are in it for the money.
(Have I said before that I don’t like Sems?)
I don’t see this as an issue for me.
StamYeshivaGy has the beginnings of an answer.
Derech HaMelech also has part.
Read some Stephen Hawking. It may help (or may not).
Free your mind.
I remember learning in Rabbi Falks sefer that immodesty is the cause of tragedy in the world(if someone wants i can try go through the whole sefer again to find where he quotes it)
And the gemorah says it is because of Am HaRatzus, like the statement above (see BB 8a). I doubt any Rav would have said something so ridiculous. And Rav Falk certainly does not say anything like this on page 382 of his book.
WIY: That is why women should be taught (Gemorah &) Halacha (not the fake stuff they teach in sems today). It has nothing to do with Tznius.
she said that it doesnt say that you cant walk around in front of your father with ervah showing, rather he cant make a bracha or say krias shema in front of you if ervah is showing so therfore some poskim hold that he cant see you in pajamas at all.
The “Therefore” is extremely weak, and contradictory to the Mishna Berurah that she quoted. Perhaps you should ask her for the “Posek” who holds it is assur? I believe if you challenge her, she will once again retract and say that some poskim “recommend” to always be fully covered, but no Issur exists (Perhaps something like Gur may say Assur, but that is their own quirk). Furthermore, we don’t pasken like these Poskim.
Good for you that you that you asked. I’m impressed.
apushatayid:
This is what I hear from the girls that come back. They basicly tell the parents that the Sems are crazy. The parents? Good question. Partially for Shidduchim, partially because everyone else does it, and partially due to ignorance of what they are getting themselves into.
What is a Zumba?
I assume it is a dance class (that is what Wikipedia says). If so, why should it be different than other types of Untznius dance?