gavra_at_work

Then again, how can mitzvos and our inborn rachmanus contradict?

It is called Mechias Amalek.

If one has to have the upper hand on the other, then the mitzvah must “win”, no? So is it really a battle, or am I just not able to see the harmony?

That is part of your responsibility to have Shviras HaMiddos. Too much Rachmanus is bad. Shaul HaMelech learned that the hard way, by allowing Agag to live.

DHM: That is a silly question, and you know it, so I won’t call you on it.

Offen a Gemorah Chulin 109B.

???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?? ????

????? Subway!

Aries, thumbs up.

No tzedaka organizations (or individuals who need tzedaka) have the rights to another person’s money.

Double thumbs up.

No one adressed the fact that if my rebbe was rav ruderman or rav hutner thats what i would be told to do!!

That’s why they call it a red herring.

Yummy, but distracting.

Or is it a Fallacy of Accident?

I’m not sure. I’ll put up the Ruy Lopez with the Marshall Counterattack & Chewbacca Defense.

DHM:

I would trust Reish Lakish. I just wouldn’t trust myself to actually be a Talmid Chacham, even if I was one.

Speaking of Reish Lakish, he is one of my favorite people in Gemorah (together with Chanan Bisha). Not for being a BT, but for not leaving any yerusha.

Awesome, truthful shittah.

The difference in my opinion is that Heter Mechira is like opening bottles on Shabbos (also R Shlomo Zalman’s heter)- a big kula but not a radical departure from Halacha. Zionism though, it didn’t start by the frum. We always had a ahava for E”Y but Zionism was a modern creation and you know how some of us feel about that. V’haMaskil Yavin.

Pun Intended 🙂 I can live with that. I’m not bothered by the Zionist angle either way, because as you pointed out before, Zionism is dead (like all the ‘isms before it). And as I pointed out, my point is not about Zionism, but about current people (not Tannaim like Rabbanu HaKadosh (same Gemorah)) being Somech on a “Nes”.

BTW, KT, you live in the wrong neighborhood.

Where I live, many of the Baal Habatim that work are talmidei chachamim in their own right, who give shiurim, are mechaber sforim, etc.

Perhaps you should move from where you are to a Makom Torah?

The entire world is a very narrow bridge.

g_a_w:

That’s an appeal to ridicule right there. These are all small issues; a beketshe or a frok, a a shtreimel or a fedora. You don’t change the type of Jew you call yourself for those things.

Anyway my opinion on Zionism is irrelevant since it doesn’t exist anymore.

In fact I’m pretty sure this topic is a deflection from the original which was whether it is correct to send a child who is sitting and learning to the IDF.

1: I’m glad you consider Heter Mechira a “small issue”. I don’t think a typical “Brisker” would.

2: We both agree that someone learning should not be in the IDF. I just think the country needs an “army” (i.e. people with weapons to defend) of some sort, which you agreed to earlier.

B”H, Shalom.

P.S. There are gemaros in the first perek of Bava Basra that actually state (and they are brought down L’halacha in hilchos Tzedaka) that a Talmud Chacham does not need to pay taxes for the city militia, as “Rabbanan Lo Tzrichi N’Tirusa”. This would apply whether the Rabbanan were working or not.

Even if I were a talmud chacham, I would not want to put that to the test.

To defend DHM:

DHM would call the Satmer Rov 98% correct for not taking money from the state, Rav Elyashiv 98% correct because he worked for the Rabbinate of the state, Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach 98% correct because he held of Hetter Mechira, etc.

It is just his way of wording things in an extreme manner, but he doesn’t mean to be Mevaze a Gadol B’Yisroel, I’m sure, even if he doesn’t personally hold of his shittos.

Although, halachicly & hashkaficly, it is an interesting question whether it is better to have an army of Torah Yidden vs. an army of those who don’t follow Torah Umitzvos and have additional people learning more hours (lets say eight hrs vs six per day).

DHM: It was an obvious point (with the word “real” bolded). Since he is of the family, he is a “Brisker”. If you mean the “yeshivos”, then do you include the Kollel? (lol)

I have no agenda here, just that everyone should live and let live (within the realms of Halacha), be factual, and try to learn something in the process.

I actually like having you here. You give a viewpoint that is strictly EY, and back it up, unlike others who insult & degrade. Further, I know we are incompatable, so it doesn’t bother me that we disagree (as I’ve said in other threads).

Getting back to the original point, do you agree EY has to have an army of some type, even if it only consists of Yeshiva Bochrim training during Baim Hazmanim? If not, that shittah is following the Avairah of Yoshiyahu.

However, if you tell me that you may as well have those who do not learn anyway fight, and it will all be decided by the Rebbono Shel Olam anyway, I’m OK with that.

I really didn’t want to bother you further, and don’t feel the need to respond if you don’t want to do so.

Probably.

I love to Kvetch

And to complain

We’re Gonna have

A hurricane,

Oh just to move,

is such a pain,

So come along and sing along

The Kvetch along song.

(Baruch makes a Simcha)

DHM: As others will point out (so I will spare them), Rav Yoshe Ber was not someone whom the Gedolim distanced themselves from.

(The examples have been brought in other threads).

E”Y does seem to have this strong separation between Charaedi & not, vs. Chutz (specificly America) we are more concerned with being a Torah Yid, and being more inclusive in that (even from places like Lakewood).

That is part of what I refer to as “Eretz Yisroel Hashkafa”.

Actually for Yidden, the problem is a white cat. Black cats are not a problem (unless its mother was a white cat).

?? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??”? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???

Bava Kamma 80a.

g_a_w:

I think it would be a better idea to send your child to a yeshivah whose hashkafos you follow. It is very hard for a child to understand when a Rebbe is teaching fire and brimstone against TV and the child’s parents say ‘its ok to watch”. Otherwise I think you will just be undermining the yeshivah’s credibility in the child’s eyes.

Of course. But no Yeshiva is perfect, and children should know the truth. Your example is too extreme. I’m talking about (for example) explaining why our Minhag is to (or not to) say “Afilu Sha’a Echas” in Asher Yatzar and the like.

My post (correctly) got blocked, but I’ll try to add this:

Every person is different, and therefore every person has different reasons why they go on or off.

And one must remember, sending your child to a yeshiva does not abrogate your own responsibility to teach your child. If the yeshiva does or says something wrong, tell your child so, and don’t be fickle (but be understanding and perhaps explain what the yeshiva believes. Make it a springboard for conversation & questions. Questions that are accepted & responded to are the best cure (IMHO)) (as I have had to do on occasion).

Whenever we are engaged in anything that is not Torah – even if it is another mitzvah we are not doing the ideal. It might be what Hashem wants from us, but that is from His perspective.

What in the world does that mean? One should learn even if that is not what Hashem wants?

Sorry, not my religion.

Besides, every Jewish nation, from Moshe Rabbainu on, had soldiers. Perhaps they were not a “standing army”, and more like “reserves”, but they did fight when required. And they were “drafted” when needed to fight. (see many times in Tanach with David Hamelech, Devorah, etc.)

You completely missed my point, BTW. You assume you are righteous enough that you don’t need a physical army. You, as others before you, (i.e. Yoshiyahu Hamelech) are incorrect. Don’t feel bad, those greater than you have made this mistake.

I know we will disagree on this one (due to our different Hashkafos, as we have gone through before), so I will not bother you further.

rb1108 = Joseph?

I suspect anyone who claims everyone must listen to anything that someone claims is from R’ Chaim, particularly when others disagree.

More like someone who didn’t bother reading the previous pages of posts

I for one am not worried about what would happen if no one is drafted.

That’s what Yoshiyahu said.

LBK:

RSZA was a very different type of Gadol than R’ Chaim.

You can’t bring proof from what he said to what R’ Chaim would say.

It should be as long as it lasts.

Whatever that might be.

Part of the problem is that the dating world is so standardized; just let what happens happen & enjoy yourself!

yunger mann, sure you aren’t Joseph?

I assume modern names exclude the likes of Nimrod, Lot & Avimelech, and include (which would be assur) Yenta, Henoch & Shneur?

I am all for removing Yenta as a name. Just has a bad connotation.