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simcha613:
Ask one, then. Meaning, ask a real posek who is not also the rabbi of a local Young Israel or similar YU-type shul. You are also assuming that Zionism and/or the opposition to it has lessened. Both of those are false, of course. If anything, the opposition has increased, as recent news stories are only beginning to indicate.“Minhag Yisrael” also “paskined” against married women covering their hair for some decades (and is still the case among a number of the “Modern Orthodox” maskilim, as it happens). That’s not “Minhag Yisrael”, it’s called a pirtza and an anti-Torah laxity.
Yet you still stick to your assumptions for no known reason. As quoted before, “…just for example, Rav Elchonon states b&w in kovetz maamarim that “Dati leumi” is literal idolatry. The Brisker Rav published a KK signed by the Gerrer Rebbe and many others that “Dati Leumi” education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.”
Why don’t you take that to a real non-Zionist posek and ask what is the practical “therefore” of all that, rather than just assuming that your perception of “minhag Yisrael” trumps explicit statements by gedolei olam?
Finally, you seem to have missed my most recent post:
“It is possible, according to some opinions, that one could believe in heresy yet not be considered an actual heretic. But the heresy in which they believe is still 100% heresy.Regardless, that same Chazon Ish stated that “Dati Leumi” wine is yayin nesech.”
Avi K:
It’s sad how you “Religious Zionists” are so bamboozled by the Zionist idol. As in:
“FYI, no non-Jewish ruler has done anything except persecute Jews. Mark Twain, in fact, commented that when he visited in 1867 the Land was barren.”First of all, the two (ruler attitude to Jews vs. land having been barren) have nothing to do with each other.
More importantly, however, there were long stretches of time throughout galus, like the Golden Age of Jews in Spain (and even the period before the Zionists invaded in the holy land), when the gentile rulers acted benevolently towards the Jews (whether because they needed the Jews or for other reasons).
Regarding the idolatrous nonsense at the end:
First of all, the eigel haZahav was also a reality. And it was (unlike the Zionist nightmare) actually miraculous, as that golden calf idol literally danced with them. Until Moshe Rabbeinu came back and pulverized it and fed its dust to its worshipers as is done to a Sotah.The geulah is certainly imminent, but it is the Zionist idol that is holding it back – not bringing it closer – of course. Claiming otherwise, like the “Religious Zionist” idolaters do, is simply silly. The geulah is accomplished by Torah and mitzvos. Zionism and its “State” are diametrically opposed to both. So, obviously, Zionism and its “State” push away the geulah, not bring it closer, as noted. And it is the Zionists that are the Erev Rav and miZera Amaleik, as it happens.
Only an idolater could take the greatest and longest-lasting in history mass-rebellion against G-d by far – Zionism – and claim that it is actually bringing the redemption, given the Torah’s clear view and plain logic that it is just the opposite. SMH.
@yankel berel and @simcha613:
It is possible, according to some opinions, that one could believe in heresy yet not be considered an actual heretic. But the heresy in which they believe is still 100% heresy.Regardless, that same Chazon Ish stated that “Dati Leumi” wine is yayin nesech.
@simcha613
I think that @somejewiknow put it well enough, but, besides for that being the obvious Torah opinion on the matter, I’m curious on what halachic basis do you claim to differ with all those gedolim, even if you didn’t know that the gedolim said that?Again, just for example, Rav Elchonon states b&w in kovetz maamarim that “Dati leumi” is literal idolatry. The Brisker Rav published a KK signed by the Gerrer Rebbe and many others that “Dati Leumi” education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.
So, on what basis do you think you know better, even if you didn’t know any of that? What is it that you think you know that therefore they all would have missed? In other words, what halachic justification do you claim for not labeling their idolatry and heresy as exactly that?
The answer is that, presumably, you don’t know the sugya, and since you see that “dati leumi” wear a yarmulka and believe in learning and doing mitzvos, you therefore presume that they are probably perfectly fine Jews despite that whole sugya.
somejewiknow:
I appreciate your kind words. Thank you. I just wish my words would actually help people rather than some other idolatrous Zionist rant overshadowing them.SQUARE_ROOT:
By that “logic”, since you are not a chassid of the Chofetz Chaim, then you shouldn’t bother with his sefarim either.So, please do not follow that “logic” and instead rejoin Klal Yisrael as a believing Jew rather than as a Zionist idolater.yankel berel:
“the question of the continued EXISTENCE of the state is intertwined with the pikuach nefesh of millions”Not really. That is literally textbook Zionism, and is heretical because it takes power away from G-d and transfers that to the “State”. Again, that “State” is a gross violation of not only the oaths but kol haTorah kulah, as the Brisker Rav noted. Obviously, as the Chazon Ish noted, it is simply a matter of time until Hashem ends that nightmare idol and its “State”.
Therefore, the core question of the continued existence of that “State” is in no way an actual pikuach nefesh question.
Obviously, if its dismantlement/transfer of powers were done improperly, then it could be a tremendous concern of pikuach nefesh, if that’s what you meant.
But regarding the core question of the “State” existing, there is obviously zero pikuach nefesh concern. If anyone claims otherwise then they are simply foolish and/or Zionist heretics. The Brisker Rav stated that it will not be the Zionists from whom Mashiach takes control of the holy land. So, obviously, Hashem will arrange the downfall of that Zionist idol, too, like all other idols, and He certainly will address any pikuach nefesh concerns.
simcha613:
No, not at all.Hallalu ovdei A”Z, vaHallalu ovdei A”Z.
As Rav Steinman told a boy who came to him, if you go to that army – in any framework – you will come out of that “a total goy”. He didn’t say “Religious Zionist idolater who puts on Tefillin each day”; he said “a total goy”.
This is, of course, what that army is expressly designed to do (turn Jews into hebrew goyim), and this is exactly what has, unfortunately happened, R”L L”A.
yankel berel:
The only delusion I see in this discussion is Zionism.
The Satmar Rav wrote decades ago that if the Zionists actually cared about Jewish lives then they would go to the nations to work out a way to peacefully end their nightmare idol “State”.
It is delusional to claim as you do that the only possibility is the Zionist cataclysmic disaster. In every normal country in the world (obviously unlike the Zionists paradise), people choose to live in whichever country they expect to be treated well. It is, again, delusional to claim that the Zionist idol “State” is an exception to that rule, and that you think you can just invent that there is no way that any part of “eisav” could rule it peacefully and successfully to the benefit of the Jews (and, liHavdil, others) there.More importantly, it is obviously not a sfek-sfek-sfek…sfeika if the Zionists are violating the oaths0 That’s silly. The Zionists are, of course, flagrantly violating them as they always have, according to all opinions.
Even more importantly, no, it is not only because of the oaths that Hashem will stop the Zionist disaster at some point. Exactly because of your concern, of pikuach nefesh – that is perhaps the main reason why Hashem will end the Zionist disaster. The Zionists, as you noted, have inflamed the world, not just the entire Middle East as in the past, with their frontal attack on G-d in changing Judaism to Zionism and creating a “State” against His will and also against the will of the Jews there and, on top of that, promulgating and propagandizing their Big Lie that their “State” is Jewish and that they represent Jews, both of which are offensively and absurdly false.
jdb:
“But to say that most people going into the IDF come out abandoning religion is just false. ”No, it’s the simple truth, of course. The Zionist army is expressly designed to change Jew and Judaism to Zionist and Zionism – and it has done exactly that, as we all know. Rav Steinman told a boy who came to him that no matter what framework he used, he would come out of that shmad army as “a total goy”.
SQUARE_ROOT:
Over the past 50 years, the wicked Zionists have kept pushing to violate their agreement that David Green SR”Y himself made with Agudah that the wicked Zionists would not draft the Torah Jews there. No compromise is possible, of course, when dealing with a shmad army run by the shmad Zionists.Those facts don’t fit into your Zionist narrative.
What Agudah should do, if their lay leadership weren’t mentally drugged by Zionism, is to announce that since the Zionists have now broken their agreement, it is now time to inform the world leaders of the truth that the Zionists do not (and never did) represent the Jews and that Zionism is the polar opposite of Judaism and that the Zionist “State” is of course not Jewish but in fact the opposite, and that Agudah’s only care regarding the Zionist paradise is the safety and well-being of Jews there and everywhere. And Agudah was originally created specifically to fight Zionism.
More facts that don’t fit the popular narrative.
SQUARE_ROOT:
Zionism has caused you to miss the entire point of his message.
What “breaks a Yid’s heart”, according to the Tiferes Shlomo and all believing Jews, is that we are still in galus, that Hashem has not sent Mashiach to bring us all to E”Y with His king in control. The Turks (or Zionists, for that matter) being in control there is just a symptom of that problem, that Mashiach hasn’t come yet.Regarding you nonsensical accusations in your personal comment, I do not recall ever reading on these forums that anyone suggested that the Arabs should take over there. If you check my other posts, however, for my own humble opinion, you’ll see that I wrote that it would likely be Eisav in control, not Yishmael. But, regardless, the idol of Zionism and its “National” bodies can and will end when Hashem sees fit to finally end that nightmare of Zionism.
Rocky:
Not exactly. It isn’t relevant if two in a million, so to speak, happened to become religious after that shmad army. There are also Catholic priests who became rabbis. The point is that army is designed to shmad, and that’s exactly what it does to Jews inducted into it.LuckyStrike:
I also find it hard to believe, but for the opposite reason: the Zionist army is expressly designed – from all the way back – for exactly that purpose: shmad.
Zionism is all about changing Jews and Judaism into godless atheist Zionism and Zionists. Their shmad army is the main indoctrination organ of that Zionist shmad.The true number of those who exit that army with the belief of and in Zionism, is obviously very close to, if not exactly, 100%. The “Religious Zionist” idolaters already believe this as part of their heretical religion, and the secular Zionists have also been similarly brainwashed in that idolatry from birth and on.
As to the others, as Rav Steinman told a boy who came to him asking to go to that army, he banged on the table and told him that if goes to that army, regardless of framework, he will come out of it “a total Goy”.
Besides, even if a small percentage still does put on Tefillin each day, what about the fact that they’ve become kofrim instead of maaminim, which means their wine is yayin nesech, they have no share in the world to come, etc.?
To those who still don’t get it, imagine sending a group of boys to a Catholic Seminary. How many of those would come out of that with zero heretical ideas and zero damage to their Judaism? At least there, they are taught that there is a Creator, unlike in the Zionist shmad army which replaces Him with Nationalism. Just read the Zionists’ own “Jerusalem Program”: “the future of the Jewish people”, these heretics claim, “depends on a strong and secure State of Israel”. Not on G-d, of course, and not on any of the infinite ways that He could assure that future. The truth, of course, is Ain od milvado.
Zionism is such an offensive and putrid heresy.
More Zionist pollution…
First of all, he is employed by the Zionists, and is speaking to a particular audience, so he obviously has to be careful with what he says and how he says it. In this case, he had to do some damage control after the Zionists got upset at him for what he stated – which you did not quote, of course.
Regardless, he never denied the obvious facts that the Zionist army is a shmad. Period. Even your co-religionists, the “Religious Zionist” idolaters admit this publicly, that their boys come crying to their rabbis about the shmad through which the Zionist army is putting them – intentionally, of course, because they express purpose of that army is shmad, as all the gedolim mentioned and as is obvious fact.
Of course, as you quoted from Rabbi Lau, it is indeed a tragedy if a Zionist soldier dies, and the gedolim certainly were sad when that happened. In fact, it is a double tragedy: the first is that they died. But the greater tragedy is that they died having been shmaded by the wicked Zionists. An additional tragedy is that their death could very possibly have been against what Hashem wanted because Zionism and its organs are, of course, a tremendous rebellion against G-d. So that would make it a triple tragedy. But even if they died on a mission what wasn’t specifically anti-Torah, it’s still at least a double tragedy. R”L L”A.
Regarding the nonsense in the name of Rav Yaakov, first of all, Rav Yaakov told the Satmar Rav that after learning his sefer, the latter had convinced him – so anything Rav Yaakov wrote regarding this prior to that realization is simply hotzaas laaz against Rav Yaakov. Irrespective of that, the Zionists’ role in actively and otherwise severing the connection to Judaism of millions of Jews over multiple generations should, by that logic, greatly increase kanaaus against them.
SQUARE_ROOT:
That “State” is Zionist, not Jewish. Therefore, picking on that “State” is only anti-Zionist, not at all anti-Semitic (unless the specific intent was both).yankel berel:
What part of “the oaths are applicable only AFTER the Temple (either one) was destroyed and the galus started” was not already clear from the prior posts? The oaths do not apply during Temple times. That’s why.The Khazar state is not a question on anything. The State existed when they were gentiles, and some of their ruling class then converted to Judaism. And their reign did not last all that long (the Zionists, too, will also eventually see their idol fall into the dustbin of history).
AAQ:
The Oaths are brought down as halacha throughout the millenia, including by the Rambam himself in Iggeres Teiman.Chacham Ovadia Zatza”l wrote that he (mistakenly, of course) accepted as truth Rabbi Kasher’s forgery of his infamous KK about “reishis tzemichas” A”L. The founding of the “State” was a conventional military victory (even more so in 1967), and totally against the Torah (both from Pikuach nefesh and a Torah life perspective as well as regarding the Oaths). Saying Hallel on such a day is obviously a slap in the face to G-d. Obviously, as the Chazon Ish wrote, the Zionist “independence” day should really be, if anything, a 9 Av, not a holiday.
ZSK:
He stated that there are sources, but did not provide even one specific source, unless I missed that. But I did provide a specific and reputable source.Evalimoshavlo:
That same heretical and deeply anti-Jewish ideology of Zionism is exactly what powers that “State” today. It is not “just” the “erev rav media and leftist politicians”, as you claim. It is the “State” and its core ideology of Zionism that is the problem, not just “leftists”.And, no, Hashem is not waiting for all Jews to return to E”Y before Mashiach, as that is against the gezeiras haGalus. A Jew must live where he can observe the Torah as best as he can. For many, that is certainly not the Zionist paradise.
Haimy:
This is a common mistake. That same heretical and deeply anti-Jewish ideology of Zionism is exactly what powers that “State” today. In terms of the average Israeli who has been shmaded by the Zionists, and trying to bring them back to Torah, that is a different matter. But it is not “just” the “erev rav media and leftist politicians”, as you claim. It is the “State” and its core ideology of Zionism that is the problem, not just “leftists”.SQUARE_ROOT:
Fanatical Zionists are de facto allies of all the enemies of the Jews throughout history who tried to take us away from G-d and Judaism.YB:
The Steipler is misquoted as claiming that the “State” is halachically permitted once it’s been established. That is sheker gamur, as pointed out. He allowed only voting in that “State”, which would have no bearing on the continued anti-Torah existence of that “State” which he obviously never permitted.And, again, the chashmonaim’s reign – about which you asked in your prior post – was during the time of the Second Temple, to which obviously the oaths did not apply. Same with the Chanukah and the Greeks. The oaths did not apply during the Temple periods. They came into force upon Hashem sending us into Galus.
Regarding the Khazars, the king converted after having already been king, and that kingdom anyways didn’t last, not that it matters since he didn’t ask any rabbi for permission to rule as a Jew; he just did so.
Bottom line: Zionism, of any flavor, is absolutely against G-d and His Torah.
yankel berel:
You could stay on topic rather than resort to nonsense hypotheticals.Chaim:
Let’s try one more time.
You keep mentioning your stories and ignoring the gedolim and our mesorah. That’s your problem. The Brisker Rav published, and the Gerrer Rebbe and others signed on, that “Religious Zionist” education – including “hesder” that you decided is “holy” – is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”. Others like the Chazon Ish and the Brisker Rav held and stated the same. The gedolim maintained that view going forward, of course. Your stories are not answers. As mentioned, there were people in 1948 who were fooled by the Zionist idol but later came around to the gedolim’s view and realized that they were wrong. There is no reason to speak badly of them for having erred.yb: The Zionists’ tremendous weakness in logic is very clear indeed.
Since you asked:
1] specifying exactly which country will take over – the nations can figure that out
2] what that country plans to do when threats arise to the yidden – this is silly; what would you do if there are threats to Jews in Zimbabwe, for example? The government there would have to deal with it. Same in the holy land, with whichever government takes over from the Zionists.
3] how many dead soldiers are they are willing to absorb before they will withdraw – zero, of course – it should be totally peaceful and bloodless, of course.
4] what the situation will be after their withdrawal … – a normal and secure country unlike the Zionist paradise which is forever at war and takes billions of dollars a year to maintain that sorry state and “State”.
zvei dinim:
Not exactly. As your name implies, it’s two separate matters.They did not call for a “State”, as that was and is against the shevuos, etc. They did, however, assume (which was not a given, as the Brisker Rav pointed out, because kesher reshaim aino min haMinyan) that the Zionists were going to anyways make a “State”, so, given that, the Moetzes statement indicated that their “State” needed to have Torah leadership.
chiefshmerel:
You mentioned the existence of some newspapers. That’s not giving sources.
So, if you are not disputing Rabbi Kaplan, then take the entirety of what he stated and try to refute any part of that with specific sources.
No, this is not “because I said so”; it’s because he said so, as a talmid chacham who lived there and described the the general conditions and exactly what lead up to this massacre of innocent Jews HY”D thanks to the Zionist heretics.yankel berel:
You seem confused. The chashmonaim’s reign was during the time of the Second Temple, to which obviously the oaths did not apply.
More importantly, yes, the existence of the “State” is very much against the oaths. The Steipler (as confirmed by Rav Chaim) and others stated so explicitly.
This Zionist meme about this being a “Satmar” thing is really pathetic. When the Brisker Rav heard that the Satmar Rav stated that the “State” is a kefirah in the oaths, the Brisker Rav responded that the “State” is a kefirah in the entire Torah, not just the oaths.
Chareidim do not want to rule E”Y because G-d does not want Jews ruling it until He sends Mashiach at which time he will rule there.
If the Zionists had not invaded against the will of the chareidim, then the gentiles would be the ones taking care of all those things.Regardless, where is Keith and his Lashon HaRa concerns? You have the nerve to claim that chareidim do not care about performing their civic duties in government, etc. despite that there are chareidi mayors of cities (and other chareidi civic leaders) who obviously do perform their duties there. How disgusting of you to spread this motzi shem ra.
It is also very Zionist of you to abuse a gemara in the service of your idol and also against Torah scholars. Ben Yehoyada states that Rabbi Akiva was concerned that since the city is run by talmidei chachamim that they would ask his son Rabbi Yehoshua to be part of that city government, which would cause a deficiency in this learning. He gives alternate reasons that are also very unlike what you “assume”.
Keith:
“There has been so much lashon harah on this website and motzei Shem ra that H-Shem can’t not be disgusted with us. THIS is the profit or Torah others must be saying. THIS is what a Talmud chacham is? He calls himself so holy because he eats kosher and learns Torah and calls us Nazis? Someone not yet religious will see this and say I want nothing to do with Torah. I thought Torah was supposed to make one refined. It turns them into animals like these people.”Please seek out a competent Local Orthodox Rabbi.
Please indicate where you have seen any actual lashon haRa. This is an anonymous site where presumably nobody knows anyone else.
Also, the gemara tells us that any talmid chacham who does not bite and take revenge like a snake is not a talmid chacham. So, you might want to ask your Local Orthodox Rabbi about that as it relates to your concern here.“Hate is very powerful and to be used very very carefully.”
This is true. As well, King David says in Psalms “Halo misanecha Hashem esna uViskomemecha eskotat; tachlis sina saneisim….” Pretty powerful stuff, which you can also bring to your local orthodox rabbi.Perhaps most importantly, nobody is denigrating any Jews who simply don’t know any better. They certainly are to be prayed for rather than hated, of course. But the wicked Zionists know very well that they are fighting a world war against G-d, His Torah and His people.
Finally, your diagnosis about the cause of the continued galus is not the same as that of our greatest Torah sages. So, you might want to inquire about that, too.
Always_Ask_Questions:
By that logic, when G-d said not to worship idols, but masses of Europeans intermarried/converted before the war (like Herzl SR”Y), G-d also must have meant that only when Jews weren’t worshiping idols. But once so many were, then it must be all cool. Didn’t seem to work out that way, considering He allowed the Nazis (with the Zionists assisting) to wipe out most of European Jewry.somejewiknow:
Nope. No gedolim ever stated the heresy that the Zionist “State” was the beginning of the redemption. It’s also silly to claim that almost a century later, but that’s besides the point. The source of that lie is Rabbi Kasher’s forgery in which he sent a KK to various rabbis – including some who had already died – and told them than unless they objected that he would use their signature. In addition, he changed the wording from what he sent them from gathering exilees to the infamous “reishis tzemichas”. There were some Torah sages who were fooled by this forgery (and quoted it), but none held of it on their own.All sheker.
yechiell:
The Zionists know how to talk tough and to lie and propagandize. But it’s all sheker.The Zionists were the ones who lobbied governments against allowing in Jews during the Holocaust.
Zionism itself, in both its heretical and idolatrous ideology of Zionism as well as its “State” are a direct frontal attack against G-d, the Torah and G-d’s people, the Jews.And their “State” never was and never will be “Jewish” but rather Zionist.
yankel berel:
Did you post the original text here yet?yankel berel:
By your “logic”, it would be incorrect to consider the Nazis as bad because there were varying degrees of Nazis and also many of those who helped Jews.YB:
Do you agree or disagree with the following statement? “Even if the whole Mormon Church would be fully chareidi and the Chafetz Chaim would be the PM…”Obviously, that makes no sense.
Zionism is the replacement theology of Judaism, replacing G-d and Torah-based Judaism with idolatrous and godless Zionism, and replacing Jews with Zionists/Hebrews. Therefore, Zionism is shmad, no matter who is its leader. And it is impossible for a Zionist “State” to be chareidi, because that is a total self-contradiction.
chiefshmerel:
Speaking of Occam’s Razor, it’s much simpler to simply take Rabbi Kaplan’s words as authoritative unless you have an equally authoritative and clear source that conflicts – at which point you would compare the two. If you have any authoritative source to that effect, please feel free to post it.Again, the facts are that Jabotinsky’s secularist youth group marched on the Kosel – provocatively against both the British and Arabs – and claimed that the Kosel was their national treasure. When the Mufti complained to Rabbi Kook about that, he told the savage that he cannot distinguish between nationalist fervor and religious fervor (even though the youth group was very much not religious).
As a result of that provocation, the Arabs spread a rumor that their Al Aqsa mosque was being threatened by the Zionists. The savages’ religious leaders inflamed the masses, with the tragic result of the savages murdering the European-looking – but non-Zionist – yeshiva students in the Chevron Yeshiva. And those students had previously lived peacefully among the Arabs, as Rabbi Kaplan testified as well.
AAQ:
Read Min HaMeitzar. Read the history books. They caused it physically/materially, too, not “just” spiritually. And When a Zionist was interviewed decades later if he regretted not using Zionist money to save Jews from the Holocaust, he replied that he did not at all regret it because Zionism is above all else.SQUARE_ROOT:
Not exactly. That would be the Zionist idolaters. Remember that it was their idol that both caused and contributed to the Holocaust by the Third Reich. And, like that Third Reich, that idol wishes to destroy Judaism and, in fact, its very purpose in existing is to replace Judaism with its idolatry. So referring to that idol as the Fourth Reich is actually a step up for that idol.SQUARE_ROOT:
Please stop posting irrelevant silliness. We don’t care about his children’s employment choices.Re: Rav Chaim Vital:
As mentioned, that does not refer to the Three Oaths.See True Torah Jews on their site:
The error here is that Rabbi Chaim Vital was not referring to the Jewish people’s oath not to end the exile with their own actions. He was referring to Hashem’s oath and Hashem’s decree of exile itself. Rabbi Chaim Vital was not the first to speak of this thousand-year limit to exile; it was written hundreds of years earlier in the Zohar Bereishis 117a that the decree of exile was “one day and no more”, as Scripture states, “All the day lonely” (Eichah 1:13). As we know, G-d’s one day is a thousand years (Tehillim 90:4). Rabbi Chaim Vital mentions this Zohar.The Zohar Shemos 17a repeats this same prediction of 1000 years, and then adds, “And if it will be more [than 1000 years] that will not be due to a decree of the King, but because they do not want to repent to Him.” So we see that within 1000 years of the destruction of the Temple, even repentance would not have brought the redemption.
…YB:
When you quote the text here, then we can discuss it. Until then, you can claim whatever you want, of course.ZSK:
The Satmar Rav and others answer that. You can even Google it. But that’s besides the point. It does not refer to the Three Taths.Izobar:
Yes, the Rav Chaim Vital source is indeed false because he is not referring to the Three Oaths.Yaakov Yosef A:
To address both your points, it might take a miracle to clean up the mess the Zionists have made. But they clearly are obligated to do everything they can to at least minimize the damage, including attempting to peacefully dismantle their psuedo-State, not that they care in the slightest about anything other than Zionism.
And that is sad, that the same people who cannot explain the Holocaust are super-quick to “explain” the Zionist “State” as being so wonderful, G-d’s gift and all that nonsense.
The answer, of course, is that Zionism cares about one thing and one thing only: Zionism. The Zionists have stated long ago that they would rather have Zionism without a State than a State without Zionism.
In other words, Zionism is not only idolatrous, heretical and has made tremendous problems for Jews for over a century, Zionism is also simply suicidal.
Somewhat related, a well known Zionist politician’s wife openly stated that she’d rather her child marry an Arab than (liHavdil) marry a chareidi Jew.
That’s why the Zionists, if given the opportunity, would literally commit “national” suicide if it meant shmading the chareidim, which is, in fact, what the Zionists are currently doing, as you pointed out.
yankel berel:
You seem to be confusing Zionist idolatry with, liHavdil, Torah.
The original post did not need to be ruined by your nonsense.As well, the way that Jews can save all other Jews is by learning Torah. But your idol is doing all it can to destroy that protection by shmading all the Jews there and also attempting harder than ever to destroy the Torah there even forcibly taking lomdei Torah away from their homes R”L L”A.
user176:
The Zionist “State” has been the greatest meridah baHashem ever (and Zionism is now now ongoing for over a century, which has shmaded millions of Jews. How exactly do you discard all the Torah about megalgelin zechus al yedai Zakai and all the rest, and claim that these wicked people and their mass rebellion is really doing the work of G-d?This is all hevel uReus ruach, and includes heresy as well, which means that this content does not belong on YWN.
As October 7th amply showed, all the Zionists billions of dollars of defense spending is worth nothing if Hashem wants otherwise. You can throw as many billions of dollars as you can to the Zionists, but the savages still managed to breach in over 100!! places the Zionists’ billion dollar wall around Gaza, and you even had random Arabs come over afterwards from Gaza to loot TVs from the Israeli towns nearby. No Zionist army anywhere in sight, and they obviously had no fear of that army either.
There is only one G-d in the universe and it is only He who determines and grants safety, security and peace, and He certainly neither needs nor wants the Zionist idolaters and heretics to be involved in any way at all, of course, even if He does still allow that idol and its “State” to still continue to exist, at least for this moment.
SQUARE_ROOT:
No, he did not use facts and logic. He made excuses for not quoting the actual text and then proceeded to accuse others of that which he and you and other Zionists are doing.IzoBar:
Rav Chaim Vital is certainly of note, but he was not referring to these oaths. Again, please quote that actual text that you claim applies to the oaths.The Zionists crank out lots of propaganda distortions against the oaths, all for naught, of course.
YYA:
If I misunderstood your post, I apologize, of course.AAQ:
Indeed on topic.
The Zionists caused the Holocaust, and actively and otherwise contributed to it. Yet you’re claiming that the Zionists saved some Jews.
The Zionists also have intentionally shmaded at least three generations of Jews there. That’s millions of people more. Yet you claim that some Jews were saved from assimilation due to the “State”.Bottom line: the world in general, and Jews in particular, would have been incalculably better off had the Zionists never started. Period.