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@Always_Ask_Questions:
The Torah is very much against Zionism and its army. Zionism is, of course, diametrically opposed to Judaism. That means that Jews obviously do not belong in that army. That also means that the brachos given to Jews about their army defeating their enemies are totally irrelevant to that Zionist army as that army is a total “slap in the face” to G-d. Hashem, of course, desires the well-being and safety of His children, regardless, but that has zero to do with that Zionist army (and “State”, for that matter).The gedolim addressed why there is a need for more Torah learners today. As well, large portions of European Jewry had assimilated back then; see Rav Miller on the topic, for example. As Rav Elchonon wrote, the two idols served by Jews then were nationalism and socialism, so Hashem sent an unholy mix of both of those – the Nazis – as a “stick”… So, had there been more Torah, that would have prevented at least some, if not all, of that. So, they could have used more Torah learners back then, too.
There are infinite stories about how living as a Torah Jew is the most ideal way to live and how it positively affects others. But that doesn’t “make the news”.
(Regarding living as a “halachic Jew”, that is a Maskilic formulation; the Torah requires living with both the proper hashkafa as well as with all the relevant halachos.)
YB:
Those details aren’t needed because the point addressing the OP was sufficiently made without those details. The only ones who would have those details would be those in political power, not ordinary commenters on this forum.SQUARE_ROOT:
As just posted in a different thread in which you posted Chaim’s fairy tales, no it is obviously not true.AAQ:
I am not claiming to speak for the Satmar Rav and very few people alive today could probably get even close to truly understanding his greatness. My point very much remains, and the lack of detail in my humble post is in no way reflective of the Satmar Rav’s holy Torah including on this subject. You can easily read the Satmar Rav’s actual Torah on it if you were to open his sefarim on the topic.The point remains: “…as the Satmar Rav wrote decades ago, that non-Zionist rule by a responsible Esav ruler would be far better for Jews there and around the world than would be any Zionist regime. …The details aren’t relevant here, nor is anyone obligated to provide them to the idolaters here.”
Avi K:
But just as they don’t want to be indoctrinated in a Catholic Church (which at least believes in some form of G-d), they all the more so don’t want to be shmaded in the Zionist army.yankel berel:
Any objective observer would conclude, as the Satmar Rav wrote decades ago, that non-Zionist rule by a responsible Esav ruler would be far better for Jews there and around the world than would be any Zionist regime. This blows the mind of the Zionist idolaters, but that’s the reality. The details aren’t relevant here, nor is anyone obligated to provide them to the idolaters here.Rocky:
Only to a Zionist would following the Torah be called radical.As to your assumption:
Many who join the IDF are fooled by promises or other things instead of listening to all the gedolim and common sense. The satan does that to everyone. That’s why Hashem gave us a Y”K each year.The znus there is an added (tremendous, yehareig viAl yaavor) problem on top of the shmad. The reason that so many go off is, of course, that this is the express purpose of the Zionist army: shmad. The whole point of Zionism is to redefine Jew and Judaism into Zionist and Zionism. Their army is the brainwashing/indoctrination center for that shmad. It’s not a big chiddush that this has damaged the Judaism of all its inductees, and destroyed it for the vast majority.
As Rav Steinman told a boy who came to him wanting to go through a “religious” framework, “no matter what framework you use to go to that army, you will come out a total goy”.
yankel berel:
Projecting again? Zionists commonly do that when the facts show them to be totally wrong.Avi K:
Please stick to facts and the Torah, not idolatrous insanity.yb:
You’re welcome to believe whatever you want but, yes, they did say that, as posted above.yb:
You cannot on your own invent that this was hashkafa and only “mussar”, as opposed to being actual halacha. It was also intended as mussar, though.
Elsewhere in his letters, for example, he wrote that one should not escape Europe to America using “Religious Zionist” institutions like YU but rather only via Torah Vodaath or the like. That was certainly mussar, too, but it was just as certainly also intended halachically.You also cannot on your own invent that it only applied to the chinuch at that time but not at other times. That’s silly and also baseless. The idolatry and heresy is at least the same, if not worse.
@yankel berel:
No, it’s not very relevant what to expect from Arab rule in the holy land after over a century of needless and anti-Jewish Zionist agitation there, because nobody suggested that Arabs should rule there. As it happens, though, there is a different example, Morocco, where even now – despite the cataclysmic mess the Zionists intentionally made – the Jewish community still exists, with active support of their Muslim king who has restored synagogues and promoted Jewish heritage.simcha613:
Ask one, then. Meaning, ask a real posek who is not also the rabbi of a local Young Israel or similar YU-type shul. You are also assuming that Zionism and/or the opposition to it has lessened. Both of those are false, of course. If anything, the opposition has increased, as recent news stories are only beginning to indicate.“Minhag Yisrael” also “paskined” against married women covering their hair for some decades (and is still the case among a number of the “Modern Orthodox” maskilim, as it happens). That’s not “Minhag Yisrael”, it’s called a pirtza and an anti-Torah laxity.
Yet you still stick to your assumptions for no known reason. As quoted before, “…just for example, Rav Elchonon states b&w in kovetz maamarim that “Dati leumi” is literal idolatry. The Brisker Rav published a KK signed by the Gerrer Rebbe and many others that “Dati Leumi” education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.”
Why don’t you take that to a real non-Zionist posek and ask what is the practical “therefore” of all that, rather than just assuming that your perception of “minhag Yisrael” trumps explicit statements by gedolei olam?
Finally, you seem to have missed my most recent post:
“It is possible, according to some opinions, that one could believe in heresy yet not be considered an actual heretic. But the heresy in which they believe is still 100% heresy.Regardless, that same Chazon Ish stated that “Dati Leumi” wine is yayin nesech.”
Avi K:
It’s sad how you “Religious Zionists” are so bamboozled by the Zionist idol. As in:
“FYI, no non-Jewish ruler has done anything except persecute Jews. Mark Twain, in fact, commented that when he visited in 1867 the Land was barren.”First of all, the two (ruler attitude to Jews vs. land having been barren) have nothing to do with each other.
More importantly, however, there were long stretches of time throughout galus, like the Golden Age of Jews in Spain (and even the period before the Zionists invaded in the holy land), when the gentile rulers acted benevolently towards the Jews (whether because they needed the Jews or for other reasons).
Regarding the idolatrous nonsense at the end:
First of all, the eigel haZahav was also a reality. And it was (unlike the Zionist nightmare) actually miraculous, as that golden calf idol literally danced with them. Until Moshe Rabbeinu came back and pulverized it and fed its dust to its worshipers as is done to a Sotah.The geulah is certainly imminent, but it is the Zionist idol that is holding it back – not bringing it closer – of course. Claiming otherwise, like the “Religious Zionist” idolaters do, is simply silly. The geulah is accomplished by Torah and mitzvos. Zionism and its “State” are diametrically opposed to both. So, obviously, Zionism and its “State” push away the geulah, not bring it closer, as noted. And it is the Zionists that are the Erev Rav and miZera Amaleik, as it happens.
Only an idolater could take the greatest and longest-lasting in history mass-rebellion against G-d by far – Zionism – and claim that it is actually bringing the redemption, given the Torah’s clear view and plain logic that it is just the opposite. SMH.
@yankel berel and @simcha613:
It is possible, according to some opinions, that one could believe in heresy yet not be considered an actual heretic. But the heresy in which they believe is still 100% heresy.Regardless, that same Chazon Ish stated that “Dati Leumi” wine is yayin nesech.
@simcha613
I think that @somejewiknow put it well enough, but, besides for that being the obvious Torah opinion on the matter, I’m curious on what halachic basis do you claim to differ with all those gedolim, even if you didn’t know that the gedolim said that?Again, just for example, Rav Elchonon states b&w in kovetz maamarim that “Dati leumi” is literal idolatry. The Brisker Rav published a KK signed by the Gerrer Rebbe and many others that “Dati Leumi” education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.
So, on what basis do you think you know better, even if you didn’t know any of that? What is it that you think you know that therefore they all would have missed? In other words, what halachic justification do you claim for not labeling their idolatry and heresy as exactly that?
The answer is that, presumably, you don’t know the sugya, and since you see that “dati leumi” wear a yarmulka and believe in learning and doing mitzvos, you therefore presume that they are probably perfectly fine Jews despite that whole sugya.
somejewiknow:
I appreciate your kind words. Thank you. I just wish my words would actually help people rather than some other idolatrous Zionist rant overshadowing them.SQUARE_ROOT:
By that “logic”, since you are not a chassid of the Chofetz Chaim, then you shouldn’t bother with his sefarim either.So, please do not follow that “logic” and instead rejoin Klal Yisrael as a believing Jew rather than as a Zionist idolater.yankel berel:
“the question of the continued EXISTENCE of the state is intertwined with the pikuach nefesh of millions”Not really. That is literally textbook Zionism, and is heretical because it takes power away from G-d and transfers that to the “State”. Again, that “State” is a gross violation of not only the oaths but kol haTorah kulah, as the Brisker Rav noted. Obviously, as the Chazon Ish noted, it is simply a matter of time until Hashem ends that nightmare idol and its “State”.
Therefore, the core question of the continued existence of that “State” is in no way an actual pikuach nefesh question.
Obviously, if its dismantlement/transfer of powers were done improperly, then it could be a tremendous concern of pikuach nefesh, if that’s what you meant.
But regarding the core question of the “State” existing, there is obviously zero pikuach nefesh concern. If anyone claims otherwise then they are simply foolish and/or Zionist heretics. The Brisker Rav stated that it will not be the Zionists from whom Mashiach takes control of the holy land. So, obviously, Hashem will arrange the downfall of that Zionist idol, too, like all other idols, and He certainly will address any pikuach nefesh concerns.
simcha613:
No, not at all.Hallalu ovdei A”Z, vaHallalu ovdei A”Z.
As Rav Steinman told a boy who came to him, if you go to that army – in any framework – you will come out of that “a total goy”. He didn’t say “Religious Zionist idolater who puts on Tefillin each day”; he said “a total goy”.
This is, of course, what that army is expressly designed to do (turn Jews into hebrew goyim), and this is exactly what has, unfortunately happened, R”L L”A.
yankel berel:
The only delusion I see in this discussion is Zionism.
The Satmar Rav wrote decades ago that if the Zionists actually cared about Jewish lives then they would go to the nations to work out a way to peacefully end their nightmare idol “State”.
It is delusional to claim as you do that the only possibility is the Zionist cataclysmic disaster. In every normal country in the world (obviously unlike the Zionists paradise), people choose to live in whichever country they expect to be treated well. It is, again, delusional to claim that the Zionist idol “State” is an exception to that rule, and that you think you can just invent that there is no way that any part of “eisav” could rule it peacefully and successfully to the benefit of the Jews (and, liHavdil, others) there.More importantly, it is obviously not a sfek-sfek-sfek…sfeika if the Zionists are violating the oaths0 That’s silly. The Zionists are, of course, flagrantly violating them as they always have, according to all opinions.
Even more importantly, no, it is not only because of the oaths that Hashem will stop the Zionist disaster at some point. Exactly because of your concern, of pikuach nefesh – that is perhaps the main reason why Hashem will end the Zionist disaster. The Zionists, as you noted, have inflamed the world, not just the entire Middle East as in the past, with their frontal attack on G-d in changing Judaism to Zionism and creating a “State” against His will and also against the will of the Jews there and, on top of that, promulgating and propagandizing their Big Lie that their “State” is Jewish and that they represent Jews, both of which are offensively and absurdly false.
jdb:
“But to say that most people going into the IDF come out abandoning religion is just false. ”No, it’s the simple truth, of course. The Zionist army is expressly designed to change Jew and Judaism to Zionist and Zionism – and it has done exactly that, as we all know. Rav Steinman told a boy who came to him that no matter what framework he used, he would come out of that shmad army as “a total goy”.
SQUARE_ROOT:
Over the past 50 years, the wicked Zionists have kept pushing to violate their agreement that David Green SR”Y himself made with Agudah that the wicked Zionists would not draft the Torah Jews there. No compromise is possible, of course, when dealing with a shmad army run by the shmad Zionists.Those facts don’t fit into your Zionist narrative.
What Agudah should do, if their lay leadership weren’t mentally drugged by Zionism, is to announce that since the Zionists have now broken their agreement, it is now time to inform the world leaders of the truth that the Zionists do not (and never did) represent the Jews and that Zionism is the polar opposite of Judaism and that the Zionist “State” is of course not Jewish but in fact the opposite, and that Agudah’s only care regarding the Zionist paradise is the safety and well-being of Jews there and everywhere. And Agudah was originally created specifically to fight Zionism.
More facts that don’t fit the popular narrative.
SQUARE_ROOT:
Zionism has caused you to miss the entire point of his message.
What “breaks a Yid’s heart”, according to the Tiferes Shlomo and all believing Jews, is that we are still in galus, that Hashem has not sent Mashiach to bring us all to E”Y with His king in control. The Turks (or Zionists, for that matter) being in control there is just a symptom of that problem, that Mashiach hasn’t come yet.Regarding you nonsensical accusations in your personal comment, I do not recall ever reading on these forums that anyone suggested that the Arabs should take over there. If you check my other posts, however, for my own humble opinion, you’ll see that I wrote that it would likely be Eisav in control, not Yishmael. But, regardless, the idol of Zionism and its “National” bodies can and will end when Hashem sees fit to finally end that nightmare of Zionism.
Rocky:
Not exactly. It isn’t relevant if two in a million, so to speak, happened to become religious after that shmad army. There are also Catholic priests who became rabbis. The point is that army is designed to shmad, and that’s exactly what it does to Jews inducted into it.LuckyStrike:
I also find it hard to believe, but for the opposite reason: the Zionist army is expressly designed – from all the way back – for exactly that purpose: shmad.
Zionism is all about changing Jews and Judaism into godless atheist Zionism and Zionists. Their shmad army is the main indoctrination organ of that Zionist shmad.The true number of those who exit that army with the belief of and in Zionism, is obviously very close to, if not exactly, 100%. The “Religious Zionist” idolaters already believe this as part of their heretical religion, and the secular Zionists have also been similarly brainwashed in that idolatry from birth and on.
As to the others, as Rav Steinman told a boy who came to him asking to go to that army, he banged on the table and told him that if goes to that army, regardless of framework, he will come out of it “a total Goy”.
Besides, even if a small percentage still does put on Tefillin each day, what about the fact that they’ve become kofrim instead of maaminim, which means their wine is yayin nesech, they have no share in the world to come, etc.?
To those who still don’t get it, imagine sending a group of boys to a Catholic Seminary. How many of those would come out of that with zero heretical ideas and zero damage to their Judaism? At least there, they are taught that there is a Creator, unlike in the Zionist shmad army which replaces Him with Nationalism. Just read the Zionists’ own “Jerusalem Program”: “the future of the Jewish people”, these heretics claim, “depends on a strong and secure State of Israel”. Not on G-d, of course, and not on any of the infinite ways that He could assure that future. The truth, of course, is Ain od milvado.
Zionism is such an offensive and putrid heresy.
More Zionist pollution…
First of all, he is employed by the Zionists, and is speaking to a particular audience, so he obviously has to be careful with what he says and how he says it. In this case, he had to do some damage control after the Zionists got upset at him for what he stated – which you did not quote, of course.
Regardless, he never denied the obvious facts that the Zionist army is a shmad. Period. Even your co-religionists, the “Religious Zionist” idolaters admit this publicly, that their boys come crying to their rabbis about the shmad through which the Zionist army is putting them – intentionally, of course, because they express purpose of that army is shmad, as all the gedolim mentioned and as is obvious fact.
Of course, as you quoted from Rabbi Lau, it is indeed a tragedy if a Zionist soldier dies, and the gedolim certainly were sad when that happened. In fact, it is a double tragedy: the first is that they died. But the greater tragedy is that they died having been shmaded by the wicked Zionists. An additional tragedy is that their death could very possibly have been against what Hashem wanted because Zionism and its organs are, of course, a tremendous rebellion against G-d. So that would make it a triple tragedy. But even if they died on a mission what wasn’t specifically anti-Torah, it’s still at least a double tragedy. R”L L”A.
Regarding the nonsense in the name of Rav Yaakov, first of all, Rav Yaakov told the Satmar Rav that after learning his sefer, the latter had convinced him – so anything Rav Yaakov wrote regarding this prior to that realization is simply hotzaas laaz against Rav Yaakov. Irrespective of that, the Zionists’ role in actively and otherwise severing the connection to Judaism of millions of Jews over multiple generations should, by that logic, greatly increase kanaaus against them.
SQUARE_ROOT:
That “State” is Zionist, not Jewish. Therefore, picking on that “State” is only anti-Zionist, not at all anti-Semitic (unless the specific intent was both).yankel berel:
What part of “the oaths are applicable only AFTER the Temple (either one) was destroyed and the galus started” was not already clear from the prior posts? The oaths do not apply during Temple times. That’s why.The Khazar state is not a question on anything. The State existed when they were gentiles, and some of their ruling class then converted to Judaism. And their reign did not last all that long (the Zionists, too, will also eventually see their idol fall into the dustbin of history).
AAQ:
The Oaths are brought down as halacha throughout the millenia, including by the Rambam himself in Iggeres Teiman.Chacham Ovadia Zatza”l wrote that he (mistakenly, of course) accepted as truth Rabbi Kasher’s forgery of his infamous KK about “reishis tzemichas” A”L. The founding of the “State” was a conventional military victory (even more so in 1967), and totally against the Torah (both from Pikuach nefesh and a Torah life perspective as well as regarding the Oaths). Saying Hallel on such a day is obviously a slap in the face to G-d. Obviously, as the Chazon Ish wrote, the Zionist “independence” day should really be, if anything, a 9 Av, not a holiday.
ZSK:
He stated that there are sources, but did not provide even one specific source, unless I missed that. But I did provide a specific and reputable source.Evalimoshavlo:
That same heretical and deeply anti-Jewish ideology of Zionism is exactly what powers that “State” today. It is not “just” the “erev rav media and leftist politicians”, as you claim. It is the “State” and its core ideology of Zionism that is the problem, not just “leftists”.And, no, Hashem is not waiting for all Jews to return to E”Y before Mashiach, as that is against the gezeiras haGalus. A Jew must live where he can observe the Torah as best as he can. For many, that is certainly not the Zionist paradise.
Haimy:
This is a common mistake. That same heretical and deeply anti-Jewish ideology of Zionism is exactly what powers that “State” today. In terms of the average Israeli who has been shmaded by the Zionists, and trying to bring them back to Torah, that is a different matter. But it is not “just” the “erev rav media and leftist politicians”, as you claim. It is the “State” and its core ideology of Zionism that is the problem, not just “leftists”.SQUARE_ROOT:
Fanatical Zionists are de facto allies of all the enemies of the Jews throughout history who tried to take us away from G-d and Judaism.YB:
The Steipler is misquoted as claiming that the “State” is halachically permitted once it’s been established. That is sheker gamur, as pointed out. He allowed only voting in that “State”, which would have no bearing on the continued anti-Torah existence of that “State” which he obviously never permitted.And, again, the chashmonaim’s reign – about which you asked in your prior post – was during the time of the Second Temple, to which obviously the oaths did not apply. Same with the Chanukah and the Greeks. The oaths did not apply during the Temple periods. They came into force upon Hashem sending us into Galus.
Regarding the Khazars, the king converted after having already been king, and that kingdom anyways didn’t last, not that it matters since he didn’t ask any rabbi for permission to rule as a Jew; he just did so.
Bottom line: Zionism, of any flavor, is absolutely against G-d and His Torah.
yankel berel:
You could stay on topic rather than resort to nonsense hypotheticals.Chaim:
Let’s try one more time.
You keep mentioning your stories and ignoring the gedolim and our mesorah. That’s your problem. The Brisker Rav published, and the Gerrer Rebbe and others signed on, that “Religious Zionist” education – including “hesder” that you decided is “holy” – is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”. Others like the Chazon Ish and the Brisker Rav held and stated the same. The gedolim maintained that view going forward, of course. Your stories are not answers. As mentioned, there were people in 1948 who were fooled by the Zionist idol but later came around to the gedolim’s view and realized that they were wrong. There is no reason to speak badly of them for having erred.yb: The Zionists’ tremendous weakness in logic is very clear indeed.
Since you asked:
1] specifying exactly which country will take over – the nations can figure that out
2] what that country plans to do when threats arise to the yidden – this is silly; what would you do if there are threats to Jews in Zimbabwe, for example? The government there would have to deal with it. Same in the holy land, with whichever government takes over from the Zionists.
3] how many dead soldiers are they are willing to absorb before they will withdraw – zero, of course – it should be totally peaceful and bloodless, of course.
4] what the situation will be after their withdrawal … – a normal and secure country unlike the Zionist paradise which is forever at war and takes billions of dollars a year to maintain that sorry state and “State”.
zvei dinim:
Not exactly. As your name implies, it’s two separate matters.They did not call for a “State”, as that was and is against the shevuos, etc. They did, however, assume (which was not a given, as the Brisker Rav pointed out, because kesher reshaim aino min haMinyan) that the Zionists were going to anyways make a “State”, so, given that, the Moetzes statement indicated that their “State” needed to have Torah leadership.
chiefshmerel:
You mentioned the existence of some newspapers. That’s not giving sources.
So, if you are not disputing Rabbi Kaplan, then take the entirety of what he stated and try to refute any part of that with specific sources.
No, this is not “because I said so”; it’s because he said so, as a talmid chacham who lived there and described the the general conditions and exactly what lead up to this massacre of innocent Jews HY”D thanks to the Zionist heretics.yankel berel:
You seem confused. The chashmonaim’s reign was during the time of the Second Temple, to which obviously the oaths did not apply.
More importantly, yes, the existence of the “State” is very much against the oaths. The Steipler (as confirmed by Rav Chaim) and others stated so explicitly.
This Zionist meme about this being a “Satmar” thing is really pathetic. When the Brisker Rav heard that the Satmar Rav stated that the “State” is a kefirah in the oaths, the Brisker Rav responded that the “State” is a kefirah in the entire Torah, not just the oaths.
Chareidim do not want to rule E”Y because G-d does not want Jews ruling it until He sends Mashiach at which time he will rule there.
If the Zionists had not invaded against the will of the chareidim, then the gentiles would be the ones taking care of all those things.Regardless, where is Keith and his Lashon HaRa concerns? You have the nerve to claim that chareidim do not care about performing their civic duties in government, etc. despite that there are chareidi mayors of cities (and other chareidi civic leaders) who obviously do perform their duties there. How disgusting of you to spread this motzi shem ra.
It is also very Zionist of you to abuse a gemara in the service of your idol and also against Torah scholars. Ben Yehoyada states that Rabbi Akiva was concerned that since the city is run by talmidei chachamim that they would ask his son Rabbi Yehoshua to be part of that city government, which would cause a deficiency in this learning. He gives alternate reasons that are also very unlike what you “assume”.
Keith:
“There has been so much lashon harah on this website and motzei Shem ra that H-Shem can’t not be disgusted with us. THIS is the profit or Torah others must be saying. THIS is what a Talmud chacham is? He calls himself so holy because he eats kosher and learns Torah and calls us Nazis? Someone not yet religious will see this and say I want nothing to do with Torah. I thought Torah was supposed to make one refined. It turns them into animals like these people.”Please seek out a competent Local Orthodox Rabbi.
Please indicate where you have seen any actual lashon haRa. This is an anonymous site where presumably nobody knows anyone else.
Also, the gemara tells us that any talmid chacham who does not bite and take revenge like a snake is not a talmid chacham. So, you might want to ask your Local Orthodox Rabbi about that as it relates to your concern here.“Hate is very powerful and to be used very very carefully.”
This is true. As well, King David says in Psalms “Halo misanecha Hashem esna uViskomemecha eskotat; tachlis sina saneisim….” Pretty powerful stuff, which you can also bring to your local orthodox rabbi.Perhaps most importantly, nobody is denigrating any Jews who simply don’t know any better. They certainly are to be prayed for rather than hated, of course. But the wicked Zionists know very well that they are fighting a world war against G-d, His Torah and His people.
Finally, your diagnosis about the cause of the continued galus is not the same as that of our greatest Torah sages. So, you might want to inquire about that, too.
Always_Ask_Questions:
By that logic, when G-d said not to worship idols, but masses of Europeans intermarried/converted before the war (like Herzl SR”Y), G-d also must have meant that only when Jews weren’t worshiping idols. But once so many were, then it must be all cool. Didn’t seem to work out that way, considering He allowed the Nazis (with the Zionists assisting) to wipe out most of European Jewry.somejewiknow:
Nope. No gedolim ever stated the heresy that the Zionist “State” was the beginning of the redemption. It’s also silly to claim that almost a century later, but that’s besides the point. The source of that lie is Rabbi Kasher’s forgery in which he sent a KK to various rabbis – including some who had already died – and told them than unless they objected that he would use their signature. In addition, he changed the wording from what he sent them from gathering exilees to the infamous “reishis tzemichas”. There were some Torah sages who were fooled by this forgery (and quoted it), but none held of it on their own.All sheker.
yechiell:
The Zionists know how to talk tough and to lie and propagandize. But it’s all sheker.The Zionists were the ones who lobbied governments against allowing in Jews during the Holocaust.
Zionism itself, in both its heretical and idolatrous ideology of Zionism as well as its “State” are a direct frontal attack against G-d, the Torah and G-d’s people, the Jews.And their “State” never was and never will be “Jewish” but rather Zionist.
yankel berel:
Did you post the original text here yet?yankel berel:
By your “logic”, it would be incorrect to consider the Nazis as bad because there were varying degrees of Nazis and also many of those who helped Jews.YB:
Do you agree or disagree with the following statement? “Even if the whole Mormon Church would be fully chareidi and the Chafetz Chaim would be the PM…”Obviously, that makes no sense.
Zionism is the replacement theology of Judaism, replacing G-d and Torah-based Judaism with idolatrous and godless Zionism, and replacing Jews with Zionists/Hebrews. Therefore, Zionism is shmad, no matter who is its leader. And it is impossible for a Zionist “State” to be chareidi, because that is a total self-contradiction.