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akuperma:
The Zionists would never allow that. No matter how many religious Jews would be members of their parliament, that “State” is Zionist, and that is their greatest priority. As the Zionists stated all the way back, better Zionism and no State rather than a State without Zionism.anon1m0us:
“A famous Rosh Yeshiva said that today’s generation more people go OTD by staying in Yeshiva than by going into the Army. Look how many people even had time to betul Torah for a stupid match.”I didn’t know that the Reconstructionist movement had yeshivas. Famous where? Hollywood?
Your accusation of bitul Torah is odd considering that the greatest actual Roshei Yeshiva promoted this. They are obviously well aware of what is and is not bitul Torah.Please help yourself and find an authentic rabbi and liberate yourself from your anti-Torah mindset.
ZSK:
Links are not allowed, but see please Judaism StackExchange question #82218.somejewiknow:
Presumably, the problem is that their advertisers wouldn’t like that silence.Zionism has not “become a dirty word”, as if it was always so wonderful. Zionism is fundamentally anti-Jewish and is diametrically opposed to Judaism.
Regarding the comparison to the 1930s, first, some background:
Throughout galus, whenever a place turned hostile to Jews, Hashem always arranged other places to open up to take in the Jews. The sole exception was the Holocaust, because the Zionists interfered in that hashgacha and lobbied governments against allowing Jews into their countries, and on and on.There are at least two fundamental differences between today and 1930s Poland.
1. The Zionists then needed rivers of Jewish blood spilled to get “sympathy” from the nations in order to get their Zionist “State”. But, at this point, they already have their Zionist “State”.
2. We have a mesorah from Rav Chaim Volozhin that the last station in galus for Torah is in America.user176
“Need I warn about the dangers of speaking negatively about eretz yisrael? E”Y is eretz hakodesh…Whether controlled by an irreligious body or not is irrelevant. ”Nobody is speaking negatively about E”Y. But, the “who is controlling” (part of) it question is obviously very relevant if you are considering moving there.
“…the mesirut nefesh those living in E”Y must endure to learn Torah…it is precisely that mesirut nefesh that will ultimately put E”Y in the right hands.”
This is totally made up. Hashem alone will control when He will return to E”Y. Hashem loves all His children wherever in the world they may be, and it’s very possible that a guy doing daf yomi in Phoenix despite a long day at work, etc. will be just as much a factor in bringing the geulah as anyone else’s mesirus nefesh for Torah.
Kids have to know, including the example set by their parents, that we exist to serve Hashem properly. Once that foundation is established and everything you allow or forbid (for yourself as well) is viewed through that lens, then it becomes much easier to do and require of your kids what is right even if other people do differently.
The answer to “but everyone does it” is, then, that they are wrong but they don’t know any better, and we will try to do only what is right, not follow other people in doing what is wrong.
This applies to everything from outright issurim to gray-area issues of sensitivity.
SQUARE_ROOT and other Zionists:
He was wrong then, is wrong now and will be wrong forever. Of all places that Jews live, the Zionist paradise is statistically, by far, the most dangerous place for Jews. And the wicked Zionists hate the frum Jews and are attacking them now in unprecedented ways, attempting to end the olam haTorah in the portions of EY under their control. Zionism is itself diametrically opposed to Judaism.Again, as mentioned, we have a mesorah from Rav Chaim Volozhin that the last station for Torah in galus is the USA, not the Zionist paradise. We also have explicit prophesies from the prophets that being in Jerusalem at the end of times will not exactly be a picnic.
The truth is that if one did not believe Rav Chaim Volozhin, then the logical thing to do would be to look into other civilized countries, not to be shmaded by the Zionists in their paradise that is perpetually in “existential risk” according to their own leaders.
yankel berel:
Great post re: yeridah.brisker:
Filters can easily remove images (and you could do so even without filters). But filters cannot and will not remove treif “hashkafos” imparted by banned magazines.We have a mesorah from Rav Chaim Volozhin that the last station for Torah in galus is the USA.
@ZSK:
Rabbi Kook was indeed very learned and had certain standards that were extremely high, like tznius, for example. He also held that their “State” may not come about through violence and war, which is exactly how it did end up being founded. But all of that doesn’t change what the gedolim held of him, as mentioned above. The Chazon Ish also banned the sale of Rabbi Kook’s books, which included at least Rabbi Kook’s “hashkafa” books, if not also the others. So, no, that would not fit into the rubric of “hardline chareidi”.“Calling large factions of Yere Shamayim, Torah keeping Jews fools/idoloters is not a wise choice of words.”
You have it backwards. The facts are what they are. As Rav Elchonon and all the rest wrote, Zionism is idolatry and heresy, and “Religious Zionism” is both religion and idolatry biShituf. And idolatry is, of course, irrational. So, anyone who believes in Zionism as part of their religion (as do “MO” and other “Religious Zionists”) is, therefore, one or both of those: fool and/or idolater. It really is that simple.
So, therefore, you have it backwards. Those large factions of Jews should give up the idol of Zionism. By doing so, they will cease to be both fools and/or idolaters, as noted.
@yankel-berel:
As many gedolim wrote, Rabbi Kook wrote and spread heresy in Klal Yisrael, which continues to be spread today by his students and students of his students. Period. This is indisputable as it is simply the facts.As to your questions, in general:
The Brisker Rav convened the B”D of Brisk for every one of those titles that he felt he needed to use when addressing Rabbi Kook.
Rabbi Kook was mesader kiddushin of the rather young then-bochur Rav Elyashiv, not the nonagenarian gadol Rav Elyashiv. Etc.As shown above, you can’t bring raayos from stories and/or fairy tales. Stories are very specific in nature and, when quoted, like here, are very much lacking context and other pertinent details.
But the Satmar Rav and Rav Elchonon and others all applied titles to him specifically, titles including “mechabel biKerem Hashem”, “Rasha gamur” and more. Rav Yosef Yedid mockingly called him a Navi (and titled that piece “Regarding an apikoros against whom we must protest”). And that’s besides the others who condemned his Torah, like the Gerrer Rebbe who ruled that Rabbi Kook was “omer al tamei tahor” (and that was after Rabbi Kook supposedly retracted his “controversial” positions – but afterwards essentially rescinded that retraction), etc.
Those are not stories about things that happened, which could have all sorts of reasons that make them irrelevant to anything, like what you quoted; rather, the above are criticisms of Rabbi Kook himself. Just open up a Kovetz Maamarim, for example.
besalel:
Calling Antiochus a “slimeball” is like calling Kastner a Hungarian; that might well be true, but is not at all the concern.
In fact, Antiochus stated recently that he would do it all over again, not any differently.Regardless, Hashem is the one in charge; our job is simply to go through the motions, so to speak, of hishtadlus. Hishtadul would indicate to vote the candidate most aligned with Torah values, and then let Hashem run His world.
@Avi_K:
Rabbi Kook learned a lot in Europe but then was “omer al tamei tahor” as per the Gerrer Rebbe; Rav Elchonon Wasserman and the Satmar Rav among others were far, far, more condemnatory of Rabbi Kook. Rabbi Kook’s son, who was far more radical than even his father, was never taken seriously in the Torah world and obviously was not a gadol. The Satmar Rav discusses that chazal, if memory serves, and points out that this sign of the fruits would be when they are miraculous/super-sized, not when they are normal. It doesn’t matter that the land was much less developed in Twain’s time, of course.Of course, even if those Rabbis Kook did believe that then, and even if either of their opinions did have any Torah authority, it’s been a century or so since that alleged “beginning”, and what we’ve instead seen is, as Rav Elchonon noted, “galus under the yevsektzia, which is the worst galus of all”.
The Zionist “State” was founded completely against the Torah and remains just as forbidden by the Torah; only an idolater (or a fool) would believe that this cataclysmic disaster of unprecedented shmad is the “beginning of the redemption”.
That publication was banned by the gedolim. They also lean rather liberal/leftist.
“which is not the case with these licentious ones [הני הפשים]”
I don’t think that translation to “licentious” is accurate. פשים are those who transgress both willfully and, worse, “negligently”.
Always_Ask_Questions:
You aren’t being specific: Jews who specifically were looking to “integrate” into secular culture were rejected from doing so. Jews continuing to live as Jews as did their fathers and grandfathers and all the way back, however, were doing just fine.You also seem to have missing the part that his Plan A was conversion. He himself has zero Jewish descendants as do others who became Zionists, of course. Since the entire goal of Zionism was assimilation, there would obviously be no objection to intermarriage. Even today, Zionists move out to various countries and marry the women there. And, not to forget, the wicked Zionists also run programs to mingle their youth with the Arabs, and Yad Lachim and others exist specifically for the purpose of rescuing Jewish women from the hell that is an Arab “husband” and village.
No, Zionism does not at all guarantee Jewish grandchildren.
chiefshmerel:
Yes, the most mild of what the gedolim stated in their criticism of Rabbi Kook was the Gerrer Rebbe after Rabbi Kook supposedly agreed (on which he “clarified” that he meant only the “intent” and only if the others would retract) to retract his writings. The Gerrer Rebbe wrote that Rabbi Kook ruled “al tamei tahor”. That was the mildest of what the gedolim stated about him.“You don’t source…”
You can read Rav Miller on the Holocaust in A Divine Madness. You can buy the sefarim of the Chazon Ish, Rav Elchonon and all the rest. Or, you can ask your LOR for the sources and if he has other sources that claim otherwise and bring those.Avi K:
“…British…greatly restricted Jewish immigration in 1936 in a vain attempt to appease the Mufti ym”s…”
No, that would be because of the Zionist terror and war that the Zionists waged against both the Arabs and the British, so the British didn’t want it to get any worse. Had the wicked Zionists not invaded and not agitated, then the British would have welcomed and encouraged Jewish immigration at a time when Jews badly needed (especially because the same wicked Zionists lobbied governments against allowing in Jews to their countries).Eileh elohecha
simcha613:
The proof that your fantasy is incorrect is that all the gedolim were vehemently against Zionism, and many were also vehemently against even the non-Zionist Chovevei Tzion that preceded it. Rav Hirsch stated that what Rabbi Kalischer (who founded but later retracted his support for CT) considered a “great mitzvah”, he Rav Hirsch considered “no small aveirah”. And that without the Zionist kefirah and replacement theology of changing Judaism into secular godless idolatrous land-based nationalism which was the case of the Zionist “opportunity” to which you referred.No, “we” were not all given that opportunity. That is given only with the coming of Moashiach. Until then, while some may go, it is assur for Jews to en masse go up to Eretz Yisrael, as per the gimmel shevuos which are, of course, fully in effect according to all. So, that’s obviously not what Rav Meir Simcha meant with Berlin replacing Jerusalem, of course.
Finally, look at what the Zionists have done over the past century. According to their official stats, 40% of all Jews in Israel today are completely secular, and 35% are “traditional/Conservative”. That’s 75% of the JEWISH population there. That’s after the intense teshuva movement that many have been valiantly attempting despite the ongoing immense Zionist shmad. No, it was not a very good idea to join the Zionists in being cannon fodder for building their paradise.
Always_Ask_Questions:
“And so was Hertzl. True, his primary motivation was fear of anti-semitism in Europe (pretty prophetic, unfortunately)…”
This is a classic Zionist myth, of course.No, his primary motivation was wanting to be “normal”, which is why his first plan was mass baptism R”L L”A. Once that didn’t work out, he chose Zionism, especially because of how en vogue it was among the Christian Zionists (who long pre-dated him and his fellow heretics) and how he would be able to propagandize Jews for it.
If his mythological supposed concern was in any way “prophetic”, then it was very much of the “self-fulfilling” type. In fact, he and other Zionists deliberately said nasty things about Jews, like “A Jew’s life is a dog’s life”, and that a Jew cannot be a citizen of his host country, and on and on. He, himself, wrote that anti-Semites will become the Zionists’ friends, because that would get Jews to emigrate to their planned future State.
And on and on.
@yankel berel
Looks like the sand is on your side of this.
Claiming that this is “hashkafa” rather than “halacha” is absurd, as mentioned.It is halachically forbidden to believe in idolatry and heresy. Doing so could also cause someone to be considered a heretic/idolater, which is an additional and very serious concern. So, yes, it is halachic, of course.
@ZSK and @yankel-berel:
The truth is not merely rhetoric; it is the truth, regardless of my inability to provide precise page numbers for you. But you can, for example, open up a Kovetz Maamarim and easily find what I quoted from Rav Elchonon. And you can easily open up Maaseh Ish and other sefarim and see what the Chazon Ish held. You can also refer to the archives of whatever Israeli newspaper it was in which the Brisker Rav published an ad, on which the Gerrer Rebbe and others signed, that “Religious Zionist” education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.These are actual quotes, and the truth, of course. Since you have no answer to any of that, you sadly resort to dismissing it as “rhetoric” rather than doing the intellectually honest alternative of looking it up for yourself and/or taking the facts to a non-Zionist Rabbi who actually knows the sugya and asking them.
coffee addict:
Contact your filter company about that not working.@yankel berel:
“you see that the zionists ARE THERE , must be therefore , that Hashem wants them there, otherwise they would not be there ….”
So, by that logic, the Nazi concentration camps must have also been what G-d WANTED (not just allowed to happen, but WANTED); otherwise, those would not have been there either.
For that matter, the destruction of the Temples and the murder of the millions (or more) in Beithar, and on and on, must have also been what G-d WANTED.
Obviously not. He certainly allowed it to happen, but very much did not WANT it to happen.
@yankel-berel
“Rav Elchonon wrote that RZ is avoda zara beshituf but he meant this in a haskafic sense , not in a halachik sense.”
That’s interesting. So, if you say that Catholicism is also A”Z only in a hashkafic sense but not in an halachic sense, then what could that possibly even mean?He says that “Religious Zionism” is exactly that: A”Z and Religion biShituf. How that halachically affects an individual “Religious Zionist” is possibly more nuanced, depending on the posek. But the ideology is halachically exactly as he stated.
@chiefshmerel:
“HaKatan has referred to survivors in quotes. Implying that they call themselves and are referred to as survivors, but are not. Just another Jewish antisemite who believes the Holocaust was our fault”No, that was not at all the implication. The quotes were to refer to those survivors from that post, not to imply otherwise.
I won’t bother quoting the rest…
The culpability for the Holocaust is obviously on those who committed that mass-murder, namely the Nazis and their accomplices. That’s obvious.
Regarding how it could have happened, the answer obviously involves – among other factors – sichar viOnesh, as that is how Hashem conducts Klal Yisrael. If you choose to deny that, then perhaps you might wish to use these days to repent from that heresy.
Believing that the Zionists provoked Hitler in the name of world Jewry is simply historical fact, not “Jewish self-hatred”. Speaking of Jewish self-hatred, that would, of course, be Zionism.
AAQ:
If not for the wicked Zionists, those “survivors” would not have gone through the Holocaust in the first place. And the sephardim would have remained living peacefully AS JEWS in their home countries rather than being shmaded (at least three generations now) by the Zionists. And on and on.Asking people to be mekatreig on Klal Yisrael in general, especially right before R”H, is perhaps not advisable.
But, since you asked, the serious teshuva and achdus that would seem to be lacking is – thanks to immense Zionist propaganda with which the satan seems to go to town – the total negation of the Zionist idol including the clear recognition that it never did belong, does not belong, and wanting Hashem to (peacefully) remove it ASAP, as we pray each day in viLaMalshinim and also on R”H/Y”K.
R”H is coming up very soon. May we all merit to properly crown Hashem as the ruler of everything and without also believing in any idolatry (especially and including Zionism).
Chabad’s late Rebbe seems to have intentionally not named a successor Rebbe. Had he done so, this would not happen, as they would have a Rebbe to ask.
yankel berel:
You misunderstood. As I wrote, it was an example and illustration under the specific conditions noted. Besides, you cannot compare the attempts to remake a country vs a peaceful handover (however exactly that would work out).Again, the point is that Hashem does not want the Zionists there so, therefore, there obviously must be a better alternative. Decades ago, the Satmar Rav noted that if the Zionists wanted, that they could approach the nations to have them figure it out. Only a Zionist idolater would definitively state that it is impossible to have anything other than Zionist rule.
AAQ:
It’s not that the gedolim argued; they did not argue. No gedolim agreed with the heresy and idolatry of “Religious Zionism”.SQUARE_ROOT:
CH”V, I never intended to make any accusation against any Jew. My points are simply to point out the ideologies that are absolutely against the Torah – like “Religious Zionism”, which is idolatry according to all the gedolim who discussed it. As well, in this very thread, I mentioned that if anyone was educated in the poisonous heresy of “Religious Zionism”, then they could be tinokos sheNishbu. But the ideology is absolutely treif.That’s interesting.
Rav Elchonon Wasserman and many others all write explicitly that Nationalism/Zionism is idolatry and that Torah and, liHavdil, Nationalism is Torah and idolatry biShituf. The Brisker Rav published, and the Gerrer Rebbe and others signed on, that “Dati Leumi” education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.
So, perhaps a better question would be why anyone would possibly follow these grotesque distortions of Torah (Zionism of any flavor) rather than simply following liHavdil only the Torah.
To be fair, though, the reason that ZSK isn’t likely concerned about L”H against Conservative and Reform communities is that ZSK likely agrees that those movements are heretical and that its followers are unfortunately not biChlal amisecha.
Avi K:
So, you mean to ask, why their forum system does not work properly on your device.@joe blow:
Zionist idolaters are a distinct minority, yet they feel confident enough to ignore the vast majority of Torah scholars due to Zionist idolatry.
The Zionist idolaters just say their position is absolutely right despite having no gadol backing them!There. Fixed that for you.
AAQ:
“The fact is that those who followed Zionists to EY mostly survived and are Jewish. A large portion of them is shomer shabbat or “traditional”. Even those who are not observant (and most likely whose grandparents were not observant with or without Zs) are still Jewish and have a chance.”
First of all, Palestine was under grave threat from the Nazi general Rommel, and Hashem supernaturally interceded to save all the Jews there from the evil Nazis. Second, you have ignored everything I wrote about this in my post. Those who went to Palestine “mostly survived and are Jewish”, you say? Again, the Zionists have shmaded generations of Jews, all of before, during and after WW II. “Shomer Shabbos” or “traditional” are nice, in theory, but anyone who denies even a single letter of the Torah is a heretic, and the Zionists deny much more than one letter – more like the whole Torah, with some limited exceptions. As the Brisker Rav put it, and many others including the Gerrer Rebbe signed on, the “Religious Zionist” education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.
Next:
“You provided the words. We provided analysis that shows that the Esav idea, while reasonable at a time, does not match recent history. If you do not have an answer in your mind, maybe you can ask or write a letter to someone who share your views and share their answer with us?”No, you did not provide any such analysis. You just pointed out random ideas that do not at all refute the Esav idea. The Esav idea, of course, remains perfectly reasonable today. Just hypothetically, and for example, if the United States of America were to take over and annex that as an overseas territory, do you really think that President Trump or a similar leader would allow some savage to ruin that? No, he obviously would not.
@Always_Ask_Questions:
Rav Shach wrote that Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik wrote “mamash divrei kefirah ad kidei hishtomemus liMareh ayin” and things that were “assur liOmram viKol sheKein sheAssur liKosvam liDoros”, which he Rav Shach was repeating to show just how far “external wisdom” takes away one’s “daas Torah”.Rav Aharon Kotler stated that Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik was responsible for “all the tumah in America”.
Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik was the head of none other than Mizrachi, which is idolatry and heresy (and foolishness), of course.So, people should seek Torah guidance from only people who maintained full fidelity to the Torah.
And if your own thought processes are in common with his, then you might want to consider how your thought processes might perhaps also be influenced by non-Torah influences and change them to be influenced by only Torah sources.
@Square_Root:
The gedolim did not agree, of course. Rav Chaim Brisker said that the founder of Zionism SR”Y must have known what he was doing, because no tinok sheNishba could come up with a seemingly “kosher” sin like Zionism other than one who does know. His son, the Brisker Rav, specifically applied to them the pasuk of “Halo misanecha Hashem esna…” He obviously would not have done so if they were tinokos sheNishbu. When the insolent Zionist David Green came to meet with, liHavdil, the Chazon Ish, the latter took off his glasses so as not to see the wicked Zionist because, of course, it is forbidden to look at the face of a rasha. If the Zionists were all simply tinokos sheNishbu, then the holy Chazon Ish shouldn’t have needed to remove his glasses.Obviously, there could be some Zionists who really do not know, though, especially the ones who went through the standard Zionist school system and never met a real Jew (chareidi). But that’s besides the point.
Avi K:
Please don’t insult the intelligence of the commenters here. Are you really trying to deny this, that Rav Elchonon wrote as he did in Kovetz Maamarim that “Religious Zionism” is idolatry and heresy, simply because of the date of the emergence of that political party and its name?Please open a Kovetz Maamarim and see it for yourself. It is there, in B&W, as mentioned.
“Religious Zionism” is, of course, pshuto hiMashmao, idolatry and heresy as all the gedolim stated. It’s that simple.
So, obviously, there is no list of gedolim who disagree with them. There is a long list who either stated in writing and/or signed off on the same just like Rav Elchonon did. But not CH”V supporting “Religious Zionism” which, again, is simply idolatry and heresy.AAQ:
This was not “private positions of politicians”. Agudah predicated their “acceptance” of that “State” on the guarantee that this be the established and unchanging rule of their “State”.As well, it is even more reasonable now than back then. It is not at all “frozen in time”. Their first “prime minister” David Green stated explicitly that the reason he wanted everyone in the army is to turn Jew into Zionist (and for the women to be there for immorality), and that was why Agudah insisted that the chareidim be exempt. Given the appalling drop in morality worldwide in the decades since, and the worsening of heretical and idolatrous Zionist ideology since then, this position remains not only reasonable but even more urgent today than it was then. Regardless, it is certainly no less urgent now than then.
@Avi K:
Your idolatry seems to be confusing you. It is the Torah that they are following, not just chareidi gedolim.
@SQUARE_ROOT:
Zionism is heresy. Therefore, anyone who proudly claims to be a Zionist while also knowing this obvious reality, as mentioned by the greatest Torah sages for over a century, is believing in heresy. And anyone who denies even one letter of the Torah is a heretic, and therefore not biChlal amisecha, never mind believing that the Torah should CH”V be turned into a Zionist mush. I wouldn’t have phrased it as did UJM, but that’s probably what he meant.@Mods:
I think this thread should be closed due it being silly to begin with and there seems to be leitzanus by some.Always_Ask_Questions:
“> made an unlimited deal with AgudahNow, you are worshipping a prime minister of 80 years ago. A prime minister is not able to obligate future governments with private agreements.
You are continue disappointing us by staking out principled positions and then revealing that you really did not think through any serious arguments to defined them. You made me more of a Zionist than I was before I started talking to you.”
He wasn’t simply “a prime minister 80 years ago”. He founded that idol “State”. But, regardless, yes, he certainly could obligate future governments.
The Torah and its gedolim that they cite are recognized and known.
A better question is how do we know that the pro-idol posters are Jewish. After all, chazal tell us that one of the three traits by which a Jew is known is mercy/good to the merciful, something the Zionists very much lack and with which their idolater followers seem to have no problem.There seems to be a lack of understanding, and I apologize if anyone thinks that I was insulting their intelligence.
As mentioned before, the point remains: “…as the Satmar Rav wrote decades ago, that non-Zionist rule by a responsible Esav ruler would be far better for Jews there and around the world than would be any Zionist regime. …The details aren’t relevant here…”
You can look up the Satmar Rav’s holy words and see what he wrote. You can then take that to your LOR and ask him for details and see if he can provide to you those details if you’re really that curious. Please do not claim anything I write to be attributed to anyone’s Rebbi or Rebbe.
@Always_Ask_Questions
You summary above about Zionism being a good thing is simply horrific. As the Brisker Rav wrote (not in 1900, but a half-century later), the “State” they have managed to achieve is the greatest triumph of the satan since the cheit haEigel. Obviously, then, the “State” was not in any way a net-positive for Torah/kiruv. In fact, it has shmaded alaphim uRevavos of Jews over at least three generations and more, not to mention causing and contributing to the Holocaust which also turned many Jews off (in addition to the physical loss of millions of Jews).Since you mentioned the alternative, both the Brisker Rav and the Satmar Rav stated that if not for the “State”, Mashiach would have come. Not merely could have come, but would have come. That was the alternative that Hashem wanted, but unfortunately the wicked Zionists robbed us of that and haven’t stopped doing so until this day.
@Always_Ask_Questions
The Zionist ideology to which you refer by implication is the same – or worse – than 100 years ago; you can read the WZO and AZM’s official platform and documents in case you had any doubts about that.Regarding your assertion that they have a responsibility to be shmaded in the Zionist army because they are citizens, this is not true, of course. The Zionists invaded that land over a century ago against the wishes of the Jews there. Furthermore, the first Zionist “Prime Minister”, David Green, made an unlimited deal with Agudah that Torah learners would be exempt from that army. So, they have zero obligations to join that army despite that they are unfortunately being ruled by the Zionists.
And even if they weren’t learning Torah, Zionism and its army are shmad, even worse than typical “religious coercion” (because the wicked Zionists heretically and idolatrously redefine Judaism, as opposed to telling you to adopt a goyish religion).
@SQUARE_ROOT
Please stop spamming these boards. It is disingenuous to take an emotional supposed statement from Rabbi SF Mendlowitz made at the height of the whole false excitement after the founding of that idol “State”, especially when all that was generally known then was Zionist propaganda, and he didn’t have the benefit of hindsight that anyone today could have.@Always_Ask_Questions:
The Torah is very much against Zionism and its army. Zionism is, of course, diametrically opposed to Judaism. That means that Jews obviously do not belong in that army. That also means that the brachos given to Jews about their army defeating their enemies are totally irrelevant to that Zionist army as that army is a total “slap in the face” to G-d. Hashem, of course, desires the well-being and safety of His children, regardless, but that has zero to do with that Zionist army (and “State”, for that matter).The gedolim addressed why there is a need for more Torah learners today. As well, large portions of European Jewry had assimilated back then; see Rav Miller on the topic, for example. As Rav Elchonon wrote, the two idols served by Jews then were nationalism and socialism, so Hashem sent an unholy mix of both of those – the Nazis – as a “stick”… So, had there been more Torah, that would have prevented at least some, if not all, of that. So, they could have used more Torah learners back then, too.
There are infinite stories about how living as a Torah Jew is the most ideal way to live and how it positively affects others. But that doesn’t “make the news”.
(Regarding living as a “halachic Jew”, that is a Maskilic formulation; the Torah requires living with both the proper hashkafa as well as with all the relevant halachos.)
YB:
Those details aren’t needed because the point addressing the OP was sufficiently made without those details. The only ones who would have those details would be those in political power, not ordinary commenters on this forum.